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Old 04-12-2016, 11:42 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,908 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCapo View Post
Stop doing it, and let these women make up their own minds about their dress, standards of beauty, modesty and religious observance.

-NoCapo
Exactly!

Do you agree with me that all Muslim women should be encouraged to live their own lives....marry whomever they wish....wear what they want.....be encourages to choose whatever ideology they desire....be FULL EQUALS of men and any Islamic custom or law saying otherwise should be abolished and Islam should be reformed to allow for full individual rights for all women?

Let's see an end to this!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5yHUfw89cc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsKvrQbfyAo


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyunVoRKL8k


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgsEC2yBjJg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdNpvfw49AE
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Old 04-12-2016, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
I think one thing is that girls who wear these hijab wear a ton of make up. For example, if you watch these YouTube videos their whole attention is on how to put on much makeup.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcFiSSpjKMI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkle8Q2eQCQ

There are MANY YouTube tutorials on how to pile on the makeup with the hijab. Also, the hijab itself is worn to attract male attention.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwJ-U-jdxi4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9iy8BITujk

As you can see, these Muslim girls wear a hijab and lots of makeup to attract male attention, not to be modest.
You might notice how scared they are that their Muslim Families, Friends, Neighbors and The "Islamic Modesty police" might recognize them.

Heavens to Betsy, The next to last Video is about putting on make up for School. Did somebody forget to tell them that Muslim women are not permitted to go to School.
They might just end up like these poor mistreated Women in Brunei (One of the Wold's strictest Islamic Nations)



https://youtu.be/QvUuWSbMErE


Do you propose that they should be beaten or put in jail or executed for doing what they desire to do? Muslim women have equal rights to do as they desire as long as it does not violate the criminal laws of the country they are in.
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Last edited by Woodrow LI; 04-12-2016 at 02:46 PM..
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Old 04-12-2016, 02:37 PM
bg7
 
7,697 posts, read 8,163,628 times
Reputation: 15093
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Different people have different perceptions and experiences in life.

For example, this experiment concluded a different outcome from what you have experienced.



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mgw6y3cH7tA
Right - she did a great comparison there. Tight white figure hugging t-shirt versus hijab.


Not really a good control. She clearly had an agenda and it was swallowed by people who already wanted to believe in a specific outcome.
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Old 04-12-2016, 04:13 PM
 
3,404 posts, read 2,249,612 times
Reputation: 1315
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
I checked the OP's location to see if this post referred to women in the middle east (I doubted this!) or in the west. The zip code indicated it was in the west (the USA). So yes, I am showing videos from the west.
Yes I am in the west, southeast Michigan specifically. I do interact with a relatively wide range of muslims, from Saudis fresh off the plane, to second generation Bosnians. There is very much a continuum of observance ranging from hijab, abaya, and niquab to no hijab at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Wearing form fitting clothing and lots of make up is done to attract male attention.
Let me just stop you here! Forget muslim women specifically, this is simply not true for women in general. Women dress up for a variety of reasons. Looking good for a man is generally not the biggest reason. Women dress up to impress each other, to bolster their own self esteem, simply to feel beautiful and feminine, and a host of other reasons. This is not all about women trying to make themselves sex objects, and you do a huge disservice to women in general to pretend that this is the case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
The hijabs are also used for this purpose. Colorful, decorated. I think this is a good thing. These girls are enjoying life. Having fun. Doing the mating dance. The next step will probably be to discard the hijabs and style their hair. Hopefully they will have that choice. But right now the hijabs are exotic so some choose to wear them. But many others are still forced.
A hijab is simply an article of clothing. It can be used to be sexy, to be businesslike, to be modest, to hide, anything any article of clothing can be used for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
. I will not ignore child brides, honor killings, beating of women, mass rapes, or forcing women to dress in black sacks. In western countries these things are not acceptable. Forcing women/girls to wear hijabs may not be the worst of it on the surface, but this unspeakably terrible and heartbreaking and ALL good people must stand against it.
And rightfully so! All these things are horrible, and should be stopped. But many muslim women, particularly American muslim women wear the hijab out of choice, as a religious symbol or observance with no pressure or coercion whatsoever. It is and should be no different than a Sikh and his turban, an orthodox Jewish woman and her tichel (very similar to a hijab, funny how nobody complains about that...), or Amish woman and her cap.

I do dislike the patriarchal aspect of Middle Eastern culture specifically, that makes the decision to wear hijab or not the province of a woman's father or husband, but I think that is much more of a cultural holdover particularly in the Arabian peninsula rather than an integral part of Islam.

Placing the focus on a cloth worn over the head, and trying to make it a symbol is just silly. Leave women to make up their own minds, and dress in a way that works for them.

-NoCapo
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Old 04-12-2016, 06:09 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,908 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCapo View Post
Yes I am in the west, southeast Michigan specifically. I do interact with a relatively wide range of muslims, from Saudis fresh off the plane, to second generation Bosnians. There is very much a continuum of observance ranging from hijab, abaya, and niquab to no hijab at all.

Let me just stop you here! Forget muslim women specifically, this is simply not true for women in general. Women dress up for a variety of reasons. Looking good for a man is generally not the biggest reason. Women dress up to impress each other, to bolster their own self esteem, simply to feel beautiful and feminine, and a host of other reasons. This is not all about women trying to make themselves sex objects, and you do a huge disservice to women in general to pretend that this is the case.

A hijab is simply an article of clothing. It can be used to be sexy, to be businesslike, to be modest, to hide, anything any article of clothing can be used for.


And rightfully so! All these things are horrible, and should be stopped. But many muslim women, particularly American muslim women wear the hijab out of choice, as a religious symbol or observance with no pressure or coercion whatsoever. It is and should be no different than a Sikh and his turban, an orthodox Jewish woman and her tichel (very similar to a hijab, funny how nobody complains about that...), or Amish woman and her cap.

I do dislike the patriarchal aspect of Middle Eastern culture specifically, that makes the decision to wear hijab or not the province of a woman's father or husband, but I think that is much more of a cultural holdover particularly in the Arabian peninsula rather than an integral part of Islam.

Placing the focus on a cloth worn over the head, and trying to make it a symbol is just silly. Leave women to make up their own minds, and dress in a way that works for them.

-NoCapo
It is true for women in general. It is not weird to try to look good to the opposite sex. That does not mean trying to be a sex object. It means wanting men to think you are attractive. I am a woman and I have many women friends. We discuss such things. These girls are at the age where being attractive to boys is a big issue.

I am not the one dictating to women. Islam is.

What verses would you remove from the Quran and what would you eliminate from Shariah Law?
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Old 04-12-2016, 07:54 PM
 
4,413 posts, read 1,640,943 times
Reputation: 1528
Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
Right - she did a great comparison there. Tight white figure hugging t-shirt versus hijab.


Not really a good control. She clearly had an agenda and it was swallowed by people who already wanted to believe in a specific outcome.
lol @ tight white figure hugging t-shirt. <<== This is actually old fashioned in New York City where I lived for the last 5 years. You might wanna start going out more to see where the world is going before making an assumption about the dress code of a Muslim woman.

Here, enjoy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SzuyfNL3HQ
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Old 04-12-2016, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
It is true for women in general. It is not weird to try to look good to the opposite sex. That does not mean trying to be a sex object. It means wanting men to think you are attractive. I am a woman and I have many women friends. We discuss such things. These girls are at the age where being attractive to boys is a big issue.

I am not the one dictating to women. Islam is.

What verses would you remove from the Quran and what would you eliminate from Shariah Law?
Which Shariah laws do you want removed?

The ones that pertain to women's rights such as:

A woman can not be forced to testify in court.

A man can not force a woman to dress in any particular manner,

A woman owns the home her Husband bought her as part of the marriage agreement and all that is in it

The ones that require the male members of her family to provide her with the highest level of education she is capable of attaining.

A woman can not be forced into marriage.

etc.

What is often called Shariah and practiced in some male dominated nations is not Shariah. To know what constitutes Shariah you will have to do an indepth study of the 4 Madhabs of Shariah and learn what shariah actually is, not what some National Laws call Shariah.

Some links to head you in the right direction:

Misconceptions about women in Islam (Submission) | Submission.org - Your best source for Submission (Islam)

The woman can not be forced into marriage in Islam.

Quote:
When reviewing both Qur’an and hadith, there is no precedence for how to deal with such violations; the Prophet (pbuh) or his wives and companions simply reminded others to follow the guidelines. Not a single example of violence, imprisonment, humiliation or coercion can be found during the lifetime of the Prophet (pbuh)that would imply that such practices today are consistent with his example.

The Qur’an does not spell out any punishment (hudud) for violations of a dress code. Also, in the verses outlined above, the Qur’an clearly addresses "the believing women" meaning Muslims, so that it is difficult to find an argument to justify the imposition of an "Islamic" dress code on non-Muslim women. Thus, by inference the decision to dress a certain way is left to the individual who will face the consequences for all actions in this life, to her benefit or detriment, as God sees fit.
http://www.mwlusa.org/topics/dress/hijab.html
Quote:
The rights of the wife over the husband which we will discuss in this chapter are as follows:

The dowry

Support

Kind and proper treatment

Marital relations

Not to be beaten

Privacy

Justice between multiple wives

To be taught her religion

Defense of her honor
]Islams Women - Fiqh of Marriage - Rights and Duties

In some "alleged Islamic Nations" women are forbidden to learn about Islam or even read the Qur'an, out fear they will learn what their rights are. This is forbidden as discussed in the link above.
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Last edited by Woodrow LI; 04-12-2016 at 08:36 PM..
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Old 04-12-2016, 08:31 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,908 times
Reputation: 435
[quote=Woodrow LI;43695026]Which Shariah laws do you want removed?

The ones that pertain to women's rights such as:

A woman can not be forced to testify in court.

A man can not force a woman to dress in any particular manner,

A woman owns the home her Husband bought her as part of the marriage agreement and all that is in it

The ones that require the male members of her family to provide her with the highest level of education she is capable of attaining.

A woman can not be forced into marriage.

etc.

What is often called Shariah and practiced in some male dominated nations is not Shariah. To know what constitutes Shariah you will have to do an indepth study of the 4 Madhabs of Shariah and learn what shariah actually is, not what some National Laws call Shariah.

Some links to head you in the right direction:

Misconceptions about women in Islam (Submission) | Submission.org - Your best source for Submission (Islam)

The woman can not be forced into marriage in Islam.




Quote:
[The rights of the wife over the husband which we will discuss in this chapter are as follows:

The dowry

Support

Kind and proper treatment

Marital relations

Not to be beaten

Privacy

Justice between multiple wives

To be taught her religion

Defense of her honor
]Islams Women - Fiqh of Marriage - Rights and Duties


In some "alleged Islamic Nations" women are forbidden to learn about Islam or even read the Qur'an, out fear they will learn what their rights are. This is forbidden as discussed in the link above.
I am unable to discuss issues with you as you get me banned.
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Old 04-13-2016, 12:21 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,371 posts, read 1,501,339 times
Reputation: 3870
Wearing hijabs in the West is exclusive, separatist, divisive, and 'unnecessary'.
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Old 04-13-2016, 03:06 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,582,067 times
Reputation: 461
Note this;
The Political Side of Hijabs


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQEcEYtWYB0
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