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Old 04-13-2016, 01:47 PM
 
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Salam, I've come to you today because I have a question, is it specified in the Great Qu'ran or Hadiths, that it is the duty of each brothers to enforce the law of Allah (Praise be to Him only) and if so where is it written. Or is it specified to be the duty of the organised religious authorities of the Umma ?

If so could you quote me the verse ? For I have much work and barely even time to pray. I'd be very thankful.
Shoukran ♥
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Old 04-13-2016, 03:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chairil View Post
Salam, I've come to you today because I have a question, is it specified in the Great Qu'ran or Hadiths, that it is the duty of each brothers to enforce the law of Allah (Praise be to Him only) and if so where is it written. Or is it specified to be the duty of the organised religious authorities of the Umma ?

If so could you quote me the verse ? For I have much work and barely even time to pray. I'd be very thankful.
Shoukran ♥
Salaam,

There is no compulsion in religion... (2:256). Therefore, religion can't be forced upon anyone either way.

Religion is personal. One is going to be judged on individual actions.

As for as I know, Saudi Arabia, particularly in Makkah and Madina, where praying is enforced at appointed time. In no other Islamic country it is done so.

As for not praying because of work, one can pray whenever time is available.

Salaam
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Old 04-13-2016, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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As far as I have read the Quran, there is no command in the Quran that called for the enforcement of any Islamic Law on Allah's behalf.

The Quran was sent as a reminder to disbelievers to accept Islam and a guide to Muslims to comply with the terms and conditions of the covenant the individual Muslim entered [signed] with Allah.
Thus being a Muslim is an individual affair between the Muslim and Allah.
Muslim will reap of Judgment Day what s/he had sowed [good or bad] on Earth.

Muslims organizations, Madhabs, Ahadith may exist to guide Muslims only and they do not have any divine authority to enforce Allah's Law on Allah's behalf.
Those who have been enforcing Allah's Laws on Allah's behalf are actually usurping [stealing] Allah's power and that is a sin.

There is nothing for any one to set up their own human judiciary system. If they use the Quran or Ahadith as references they cannot claim it is Allah's immutable [cannot be changed] Law done on Allah's behalf. The point is all human judiciary system must be subjected to change to accommodate human dignity, i.e. not such barbaric punishments such as hudud.
Hudud on Non-Muslims
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Old 04-14-2016, 01:11 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,043,445 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
As far as I have read the Quran, there is no command in the Quran that called for the enforcement of any Islamic Law on Allah's behalf.

The Quran was sent as a reminder to disbelievers to accept Islam and a guide to Muslims to comply with the terms and conditions of the covenant the individual Muslim entered [signed] with Allah.
Thus being a Muslim is an individual affair between the Muslim and Allah.
Muslim will reap of Judgment Day what s/he had sowed [good or bad] on Earth.

Muslims organizations, Madhabs, Ahadith may exist to guide Muslims only and they do not have any divine authority to enforce Allah's Law on Allah's behalf.
Those who have been enforcing Allah's Laws on Allah's behalf are actually usurping [stealing] Allah's power and that is a sin.

There is nothing for any one to set up their own human judiciary system. If they use the Quran or Ahadith as references they cannot claim it is Allah's immutable [cannot be changed] Law done on Allah's behalf. The point is all human judiciary system must be subjected to change to accommodate human dignity, i.e. not such barbaric punishments such as hudud.
Hudud on Non-Muslims
Continuum has described well that Allah's law should not be forced by people on other people. Allah may do that Himself if He so Wills.

Current laws in Islamic countries vary. These are not all Islamic laws or Allah's laws but in most Islamic counties these are agreed by the parliaments of the countries, and not by any Caliph. There is no such Allah's law in which someone selling alcohol should be lashed. To call it Allah's law or Shariah law is ignorance about Allah's law. There is only prohibition of drinking alcoholic drink in the Qur'an as a guide that such drinking is more harmful than is good but there is no punishment described in the Qur'an for doing so.
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Old 04-14-2016, 01:31 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Continuum has described well that Allah's law should not be forced by people on other people. Allah may do that Himself if He so Wills.

Current laws in Islamic countries vary. These are not all Islamic laws or Allah's laws but in most Islamic counties these are agreed by the parliaments of the countries, and not by any Caliph. There is no such Allah's law in which someone selling alcohol should be lashed. To call it Allah's law or Shariah law is ignorance about Allah's law. There is only prohibition of drinking alcoholic drink in the Qur'an as a guide that such drinking is more harmful than is good but there is no punishment described in the Qur'an for doing so.
What is worse is Allah provide alcohol and mentioned alcohol favorably in paradise
47:15 A similitude of the Garden which those who keep their duty (to Allah) are promised: Therein are rivers of water unpolluted, and rivers of milk whereof the flavour changeth not, and rivers of wine delicious to the drinkers, and rivers of clear-run honey; therein for them is every kind of fruit, with pardon from their Lord. (Are those who enjoy all this) like those who are immortal in the Fire and are given boiling water to drink so that it teareth their bowels?

83:25 They are given to drink of a pure wine, sealed,
Given such a circumstances it would be too drastic for some one who is a non-Muslim to be canned for selling alcohol. These Muslims should mind their own bloody business and not infringe on the human rights of others.
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Old 04-14-2016, 10:58 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
What is worse is Allah provide alcohol and mentioned alcohol favorably in paradise
47:15 A similitude of the Garden which those who keep their duty (to Allah) are promised: Therein are rivers of water unpolluted, and rivers of milk whereof the flavour changeth not, and rivers of wine delicious to the drinkers, and rivers of clear-run honey; therein for them is every kind of fruit, with pardon from their Lord. (Are those who enjoy all this) like those who are immortal in the Fire and are given boiling water to drink so that it teareth their bowels?

83:25 They are given to drink of a pure wine, sealed,
Given such a circumstances it would be too drastic for some one who is a non-Muslim to be canned for selling alcohol. These Muslims should mind their own bloody business and not infringe on the human rights of others.
As best as I understand. there will be no intoxication from the wine in heaven. The scholars disagree if that is because the denizens will be immune to the effects of alcohol or because it does not contain alcohol.

Aceh is in violation of Indonesian law. They are a breakaway province attempting to secede from Indonesia. In the past Indonesia has attempted military intervention with Aceh but as a result caught all kinds of UN Condemnation.

http://www.politicsforum.org/forum/v...p?f=27&t=33283

Bottom line Aceh is violating both Sharia law and Indonesian laws.

On the other hand can you imagine the world outcry if Indonesia uses military force to bring Aceh back into compliance with Indonesian law over this disgraceful act
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Old 04-15-2016, 01:50 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
As best as I understand. there will be no intoxication from the wine in heaven. The scholars disagree if that is because the denizens will be immune to the effects of alcohol or because it does not contain alcohol.

Aceh is in violation of Indonesian law. They are a breakaway province attempting to secede from Indonesia. In the past Indonesia has attempted military intervention with Aceh but as a result caught all kinds of UN Condemnation.

http://www.politicsforum.org/forum/v...p?f=27&t=33283

Bottom line Aceh is violating both Sharia law and Indonesian laws.

On the other hand can you imagine the world outcry if Indonesia uses military force to bring Aceh back into compliance with Indonesian law over this disgraceful act
The whole problem is due to Islam as it is presented in the Quran and the ethos of Muhammad then which is imbued into Islam eternally.

This is where my hypothesis holds true, i.e.

1. DNA wise All humans [including Muslims] has the potential evil.
2. 20% [conservatively] of all humans [including Muslims] has the tendency to commit evil.
3. The Quran contain a whole range of evil laden verses.
4. Elements in 2 are influenced by elements in 3 to commit evil.

What is happening in Aceh is due to the resultant of 4.
Abu Bakar Ba'asyir was committed for facilitating terror, he claimed 'Within Islam I am right,.
The point is who is to stop Ba'asyir when he insist he is right.
No one can get Allah to appear to confirm who is right and wrong on Earth.
So as long as Ba'asyir or people like him are alive, they will influence their followers to commit terrible evils and violence in the name of Islam.

As one can deduce from reality in 1-4 above, the Quran has to be blamed in part [see 3 above].
Note I state 'in-part,' not whole.

Note 1 and 2 apply to all religions, but it is only from SOME followers of Islam that we have religion-inspired evils and violence.
As a check and control, there are no religious_texts-inspired-violence from Buddhism, Jainism, Christianity, Taoism, Vedanta and other mainstream religions.
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Old 04-15-2016, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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That is like saying the American Constitution is in part guilty of 14,000 gun killings annually because the constitution promotes gun ownership
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Old 04-15-2016, 11:39 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
That is like saying the American Constitution is in part guilty of 14,000 gun killings annually because the constitution promotes gun ownership
If the American Constitution specifically mention Americans [qualified] can own guns, it is partly guilty of all evil gun killings related to this Law.
This is why those with high moral sense in this regard are fighting to get rid of this right for ordinary citizens to own guns.

At present the right to own guns in the USA is still in existence due to various pressures and many factors.

Just like how slavery has been abolished and banned in the USA, someday when the right conditions exist the right to own guns in the USA will be abolished because there is the moral thing to do.

More so in the further future morally no one will be allowed to own guns at all.

One critical point is the right to own guns in the USA or anyway based Constitution can be changed when existing conditions [the majority of humans brain change to be more moral] exists.

The problem with Islam is Allah's Law are immutable, i.e. cannot be changed, edited nor removed even when the right conditions are achieved with human developments.

Therefore even if the majority of humans [humanity] has achieved higher mental states of wisdom in not fighting with each other in wars, do not commit violence, accept no slavery, etc. the Quran will still condone such evil acts [with or without conditions] as Islam cannot erase them from the Quran. Such permission will enable the evil prone to be influenced by these permanent evil laden elements to commit evils and nobody can do anything about it because Allah allow it. Problem is Allah will not appear to do any thing to the Quran and fallible humans cannot act on behalf of Allah to change Allah's words.

This is a dilemma faced by humanity.
In reality the Quran thrown into a dilemma was not authored by God [even if God exists]. If the Quran was authored by a God, there will be no evil laden elements in the Quran.
There are evil laden elements in the Quran because it was authored by fallible human[s] but since it is falsely claimed to be from God, the evil laden elements are trapped as permanent and thus the dilemma.
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Old 04-16-2016, 05:06 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,305,624 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
If the American Constitution specifically mention Americans [qualified] can own guns, it is partly guilty of all evil gun killings related to this Law.
This is why those with high moral sense in this regard are fighting to get rid of this right for ordinary citizens to own guns.

At present the right to own guns in the USA is still in existence due to various pressures and many factors.

Just like how slavery has been abolished and banned in the USA, someday when the right conditions exist the right to own guns in the USA will be abolished because there is the moral thing to do.

More so in the further future morally no one will be allowed to own guns at all.

One critical point is the right to own guns in the USA or anyway based Constitution can be changed when existing conditions [the majority of humans brain change to be more moral] exists.

The problem with Islam is Allah's Law are immutable, i.e. cannot be changed, edited nor removed even when the right conditions are achieved with human developments.

Therefore even if the majority of humans [humanity] has achieved higher mental states of wisdom in not fighting with each other in wars, do not commit violence, accept no slavery, etc. the Quran will still condone such evil acts [with or without conditions] as Islam cannot erase them from the Quran. Such permission will enable the evil prone to be influenced by these permanent evil laden elements to commit evils and nobody can do anything about it because Allah allow it. Problem is Allah will not appear to do any thing to the Quran and fallible humans cannot act on behalf of Allah to change Allah's words.

This is a dilemma faced by humanity.
In reality the Quran thrown into a dilemma was not authored by God [even if God exists]. If the Quran was authored by a God, there will be no evil laden elements in the Quran.
There are evil laden elements in the Quran because it was authored by fallible human[s] but since it is falsely claimed to be from God, the evil laden elements are trapped as permanent and thus the dilemma.
From a Muslim's view(Me being the Muslim)

1.The Qur'an is the exact words of Allaan(swt) as recited to Muhammad(saws) through Jibreel

2.There are no Evil laden verses in the Qur'an. That is a misconception of some non-Muslims that do not understand the Qur'an
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