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Old 04-18-2016, 03:33 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,581,295 times
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Quote:
Secretary of State John Kerry said Thursday that the United States has determined that ISIS' action against the Yazidis and other minority groups in Iraq and Syria constitutes genocide.
John Kerry: ISIS responsible for genocide - CNNPolitics.com
Since the members of ISIS are Muslims who abide by the Quran, what is the Quran's view on genocide?

Here is a paper on How Genocide Arises?

Quote:
Genocide is a process that develops in ten stages that are predictable but not inexorable. At each stage, preventive measures can stop it. The process is not linear. Stages may occur simultaneously. Logically, later stages must be preceded by earlier stages. But all stages continue to operate throughout the process.

1. CLASSIFICATION:
All cultures have categories to distinguish people into “us and them” by ethnicity, race, religion, or nationality: German and Jew, Hutu and Tutsi. Bipolar societies that lack mixed categories, such as Rwanda and Burundi, are the most likely to have genocide. The main preventive measure at this early stage is to develop universalistic institutions that transcend ethnic or racial divisions, that actively promote tolerance and understanding, and that promote classifications that transcend the divisions. The Catholic church could have played this role in Rwanda, had it not been riven by the same ethnic cleavages as Rwandan society. Promotion of a common language in countries like Tanzania has also promoted transcendent national identity. This search for common ground is vital to early prevention of genocide.

2. SYMBOLIZATION:
We give names or other symbols to the classifications. We name people “Jews” or “Gypsies”, or distinguish them by colors or dress; and apply the symbols to members of groups. Classification and symbolization are universally human and do not necessarily result in genocide unless they lead to dehumanization. When combined with hatred, symbols may be forced upon unwilling members of pariah groups: the yellow star for Jews under Nazi rule, the blue scarf for people from the Eastern Zone in Khmer Rouge Cambodia. To combat symbolization, hate symbols can be legally forbidden (swastikas) as can hate speech. Group marking like gang clothing or tribal scarring can be outlawed, as well. The problem is that legal limitations will fail if unsupported by popular cultural enforcement. Though Hutu and Tutsi were forbidden words in Burundi until the 1980’s, code words replaced them. If widely supported, however, denial of symbolization can be powerful, as it was in Bulgaria, where the government refused to supply enough yellow badges and at least eighty percent of Jews did not wear them, depriving the yellow star of its significance as a Nazi symbol for Jews.

3. DISCRIMINATION:
A dominant group uses law, custom, and political power to deny the rights of other groups. The powerless
s group may not be accorded full civil rights or even citizenship. Examples include the Nuremberg Laws of 1935 in Nazi Germany, which stripped Jews of their German citizenship, and prohibited their employment by the government and by universities. Denial of citizenship to the Rohingya Muslim minority in Burma is another example. Prevention against discrimination means full political empowerment and citizenship rights for all groups in a society. Discrimination on the basis of nationality, ethnicity, race or religion should be outlawed. Individuals should have the right to sue the state, corporations, and other individuals if their rights are violated.

4. DEHUMANIZATION:
One group denies the humanity of the other group. Members of it are equated with animals, vermin, insects or diseases. Dehumanization overcomes the normal human revulsion against murder. At this stage, hate propaganda in print and on hate radios is used to vilify the victim group. In combating this dehumanization, incitement to genocide should not be confused with protected speech. Genocidal societies lack constitutional protection for countervailing speech, and should be treated differently than democracies. Local and international leaders should condemn the use of hate speech and make it culturally unacceptable. Leaders who incite genocide should be banned from international travel and have their foreign finances frozen. Hate radio stations should be shut down, and hate propaganda banned. Hate crimes and atrocities should be promptly punished.

5. ORGANIZATION:
Genocide is always organized, usually by the state, often using militias to provide deniability of state responsibility (the Janjaweed in Darfur.) Sometimes organization is informal (Hindu mobs led by local RSS militants) or decentralized (terrorist groups.) Special army units or militias are often trained and armed. Plans are made for genocidal killings. To combat this stage, membership in these militias should be outlawed. Their leaders should be denied visas for foreign travel. The U.N. should impose arms embargoes on governments and citizens of countries involved in genocidal massacres, and create commissions to investigate violations, as was done in post-genocide Rwanda.

6. POLARIZATION:
Extremists drive the groups apart. Hate groups broadcast polarizing propaganda. Laws may forbid intermarriage or social interaction. Extremist terrorism targets moderates, intimidating and silencing the center. Moderates from the perpetrators’ own group are most able to stop genocide, so are the first to be arrested and killed. Prevention may mean security protection for moderate leaders or assistance to human rights groups. Assets of extremists may be seized, and visas for international travel denied to them. Coups d’état by extremists should be opposed by international sanctions.

7. PREPARATION:
National or perpetrator group leaders plan the “Final Solution” to the Jewish, Armenian, Tutsi or other targeted group “question.” They often use euphemisms to cloak their intentions, such as referring to their goals as “ethnic cleansing,” “purification,” or “counter-terrorism.” They build armies, buy weapons and train their troops and militias. They indoctrinate the populace with fear of the victim group. Leaders often claim that “if we don’t kill them, they will kill us.” Prevention of preparation may include arms embargos and commissions to enforce them. It should include prosecution of incitement and conspiracy to commit genocide, both crimes under Article 3 of the Genocide Convention.

8. PERSECUTION:
Victims are identified and separated out because of their ethnic or religious identity. Death lists are drawn up. In state sponsored genocide, members of victim groups may be forced to wear identifying symbols. Their property is often expropriated. Sometimes they are even segregated into ghettoes, deported into concentration camps, or confined to a famine-struck region and starved. Genocidal massacres begin. They are acts of genocide because they intentionally destroy part of a group. At this stage, a Genocide Emergency must be declared. If the political will of the great powers, regional alliances, or the U.N. Security Council can be mobilized, armed international intervention should be prepared, or heavy assistance provided to the victim group to prepare for its self-defense. Humanitarian assistance should be organized by the U.N. and private relief groups for the inevitable tide of refugees to come.

9. EXTERMINATION begins, and quickly becomes the mass killing legally called “genocide.” It is “extermination” to the killers because they do not believe their victims to be fully human. When it is sponsored by the state, the armed forces often work with militias to do the killing. Sometimes the genocide results in revenge killings by groups against each other, creating the downward whirlpool-like cycle of bilateral genocide (as in Burundi). At this stage, only rapid and overwhelming armed intervention can stop genocide. Real safe areas or refugee escape corridors should be established with heavily armed international protection. (An unsafe “safe” area is worse than none at all.) The U.N. Standing High Readiness Brigade, EU Rapid Response Force, or regional forces -- should be authorized to act by the U.N. Security Council if the genocide is small. For larger interventions, a multilateral force authorized by the U.N. should intervene. If the U.N. is paralyzed, regional alliances must act. It is time to recognize that the international responsibility to protect transcends the narrow interests of individual nation states. If strong nations will not provide troops to intervene directly, they should provide the airlift, equipment, and financial means necessary for regional states to intervene.

10. DENIAL is the final stage that lasts throughout and always follows a genocide. It is among the surest indicators of further genocidal massacres. The perpetrators of genocide dig up the mass graves, burn the bodies, try to cover up the evidence and intimidate the witnesses. They deny that they committed any crimes, and often blame what happened on the victims. They block investigations of the crimes, and continue to govern until driven from power by force, when they flee into exile. There they remain with impunity, like Pol Pot or Idi Amin, unless they are captured and a tribunal is established to try them. The response to denial is punishment by an international tribunal or national courts. There the evidence can be heard, and the perpetrators punished. Tribunals like the Yugoslav or Rwanda Tribunals, or an international tribunal to try the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, or an International Criminal Court may not deter the worst genocidal killers. But with the political will to arrest and prosecute them, some may be brought to justice.

© 2013 Gregory H. Stanton. Originally presented as a briefing paper, “The Eight Stages of Genocide” at the US State Department in 1996. Discrimination and Persecution have since been added to the 1996 model.
http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocid...fgenocide.html
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Old 04-18-2016, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
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I will attempt to address each of the 10 points with quotes from the Qur'an and Ahadith (if applicable to clarify the Qur'an)

1. CLASSIFICATION:
All cultures have categories to distinguish people into “us and them” by ethnicity, race, religion, or nationality: German and Jew, Hutu and Tutsi. Bipolar societies that lack mixed categories, such as Rwanda and Burundi, are the most likely to have genocide. The main preventive measure at this early stage is to develop universalistic institutions that transcend ethnic or racial divisions, that actively promote tolerance and understanding, and that promote classifications that transcend the divisions. The Catholic church could have played this role in Rwanda, had it not been riven by the same ethnic cleavages as Rwandan society. Promotion of a common language in countries like Tanzania has also promoted transcendent national identity. This search for common ground is vital to early prevention of genocide.

O humanity! Be conscious of your Lord, who has created you out of one living entity, and out of it created its mate, and out of the two spread abroad a multitude of men and women. And remain conscious of God, in whose name you demand [your rights] from one another (and before Him you will be accountable), and of these ties of kinship. Verily, God is ever watchful over you. (Quran 4:1)
"O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female, and have made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Indeed the most honored of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted" [Quran 49:13]
Prophet Muhammad sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam ( may Allah exalt his mention ) said: "O mankind, your Lord is One and your father is one. You all descended from Aadam, and Aadam was created from earth. He is most honored among you in the sight of God who is most upright. No Arab is superior to a non-Arab, no colored person to a white person, or a white person to a colored person except by Taqwa (piety)." [Ahmad and At-Tirmithi ]
Truly God commands you to give back trusts to those to whom they are due, and when you judge between people, to judge with justice.... (Quran, 4:58)
...And act justly. Truly, God loves those who are just. (Quran, 49:9)
O believers, tee you securers of justice, witness for God. Let not detestation for a people move you not to be equitable; be equitable-that is nearer to God-fearing. (5:8)
Verily, We created humans (insanaa) in the best stature (taqwim) (mould)” (Quran: 95: 4)



2. SYMBOLIZATION:
We give names or other symbols to the classifications. We name people “Jews” or “Gypsies”, or distinguish them by colors or dress; and apply the symbols to members of groups. Classification and symbolization are universally human and do not necessarily result in genocide unless they lead to dehumanization. When combined with hatred, symbols may be forced upon unwilling members of pariah groups: the yellow star for Jews under Nazi rule, the blue scarf for people from the Eastern Zone in Khmer Rouge Cambodia. To combat symbolization, hate symbols can be legally forbidden (swastikas) as can hate speech. Group marking like gang clothing or tribal scarring can be outlawed, as well. The problem is that legal limitations will fail if unsupported by popular cultural enforcement. Though Hutu and Tutsi were forbidden words in Burundi until the 1980’s, code words replaced them. If widely supported, however, denial of symbolization can be powerful, as it was in Bulgaria, where the government refused to supply enough yellow badges and at least eighty percent of Jews did not wear them, depriving the yellow star of its significance as a Nazi symbol for Jews.

I can not find anything specific in the Qur'an that prohibits Muslims having a symbol, but do know all symbolism of a people was not practiced until the Rise of the Ottomans
Islamic Symbols

As surprising as it may be to the uninitiated, Islam discourages the use of “holy symbols” in the same manner that Christians use the cross to symbolize their faith, or how Judaism is represented by the menorah or the Star of David. Early Muslim authorities prohibited the use of any geometric shapes to symbolize Islam. This is the reason why Islamic coins bore no visual symbols but are instead covered in Arabic writing.
Islamic Symbols

Conclusions

In conclusion, let me state that all acts are acts of worship. We all try to do the best that we can according to the extent of our knowledge and our level of Iman. Everyone has a conscience. How sensitive our conscience is toward what we have discussed depends on what we previously stated, the extent of our knowledge and the level of our Iman.

It is not the responsibility of Muslims to point the finger at each other and try to force anyone to his personal understanding of matters. Religion and especially the interpretation of matters pertaining to religion should never be forced on anyone. We all know that "there is no compulsion in religion." We know that there is nothing wrong with respecting the flag of any country. The degree to which one cares to show such respect is an individual matter of conscience. No one has the right to impose his conscience on another. But, it is important to know how some people feel about a flag, symbol or insignia. As to the use of the 'star and crescent' symbols, we know that Allah will judge all of us according to our niya, our intentions, and how we choose to interpret all matters pertaining to tawhid.

Proper attention should be given, however, to the use of a symbol or icon that at one time represented the worship of a goddess or to one that symbolizes our 'godly' adoration for a righteous person whom some may place on the same plane of reverence reserved only for Allah. May Allah guide us as we search to perfect our worship of Him as He has perfected our religion. In the end we all return to Him and He will teach us what was best; for He is the best to decide (10:108-109).

Incidentally, the 'Golden Age of Islam' that we all reminisce so passionately about came to a close about the mid-l5th century with the fall of Spain and the invasion of the Mongols. This was about the same time that 'the star and crescent' started to be hoisted up as the banner or representation of Muslims. We've never been able to regain that greatness again. Coincidence?
The Star and the Crescent: Is the Symbol of Islam Shirk?

3. DISCRIMINATION:
A dominant group uses law, custom, and political power to deny the rights of other groups. The powerless
s group may not be accorded full civil rights or even citizenship. Examples include the Nuremberg Laws of 1935 in Nazi Germany, which stripped Jews of their German citizenship, and prohibited their employment by the government and by universities. Denial of citizenship to the Rohingya Muslim minority in Burma is another example. Prevention against discrimination means full political empowerment and citizenship rights for all groups in a society. Discrimination on the basis of nationality, ethnicity, race or religion should be outlawed. Individuals should have the right to sue the state, corporations, and other individuals if their rights are violated.

"And We have not sent you but as a mercy to all the worlds." (Quran 21:107)
"Beware! Whoever is cruel and hard on a non-Muslim minority, curtails their rights, burdens them with more than they can bear, or takes anything from them against their free will; I (Prophet Muhammad) will complain against the person on the Day of Judgment." (Abu Dawud)
Non-Muslims have the right not to have their religious beliefs mocked. It may not be an exaggeration to state that no other religion or sect in the world is as fair as Islam to people of other faiths. For example, let us look at a verse from the Quran:

"Say, ‘Who gives you sustenance from the heavens and the earth?’ Say, ‘It is God; and it is certain that either we or you are on the right guidance or in manifest error.’" (Quran 34:24)

The verse ends with what Arabs linguists call a rhetorical question whose answer is common knowledge to the intended audience. The verse blends certainty with doubt: Muslims following guidance and the error of the unbelievers is presented as something doubtful. In doing so, God emphasizes the truth by allowing the reader to draw his own conclusion. God does not state in this verse who is following guidance and who is not. The verse treats the fictitious "opponent" with justice by presenting the argument and allowing the listener to judge. Az-Zamakhshiri, a classical linguist and exegete of the Quran, elaborates this point:

The Rights of Non-Muslims in Islam (All parts) - The Religion of Islam

4. DEHUMANIZATION:
One group denies the humanity of the other group. Members of it are equated with animals, vermin, insects or diseases. Dehumanization overcomes the normal human revulsion against murder. At this stage, hate propaganda in print and on hate radios is used to vilify the victim group. In combating this dehumanization, incitement to genocide should not be confused with protected speech. Genocidal societies lack constitutional protection for countervailing speech, and should be treated differently than democracies. Local and international leaders should condemn the use of hate speech and make it culturally unacceptable. Leaders who incite genocide should be banned from international travel and have their foreign finances frozen. Hate radio stations should be shut down, and hate propaganda banned. Hate crimes and atrocities should be promptly punished.

109.1: Say: O disbelievers!
109.2: I worship not that which ye worship;
109.3: Nor worship ye that which I worship.
109.4: And I shall not worship that which ye worship.
109.5: Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
109.6: Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.

If any Muslim killed a Muahid (i.e. non-Muslim living in Muslim land with agreement) then he (Muslim) shall not even smell the fragrance of Paradise although the fragrance of Paradise would have been perceived from the distance of travelling for 40 years [Sahih Bukhari, Volume No. 3, Hadith # 2995]
Once a delegation of Christians comprising of 14 members came to Madina. The Prophet (Peace be upon him) made them stay in his mosque (i.e. Masjid an Nabwi) and he gave them permission to perform their worship in their own manner inside his Mosque. [Imam Ibn Sa’d in his Tabaqat al Kubra, Volume No. 1, Page No. 357]


5. ORGANIZATION:
Genocide is always organized, usually by the state, often using militias to provide deniability of state responsibility (the Janjaweed in Darfur.) Sometimes organization is informal (Hindu mobs led by local RSS militants) or decentralized (terrorist groups.) Special army units or militias are often trained and armed. Plans are made for genocidal killings. To combat this stage, membership in these militias should be outlawed. Their leaders should be denied visas for foreign travel. The U.N. should impose arms embargoes on governments and citizens of countries involved in genocidal massacres, and create commissions to investigate violations, as was done in post-genocide Rwanda.

Islam is not organized. There is no hierarchy of clergy as there is no ordained clergy. There is no joining Islam, there are no membership requirements, no induction ritual, no allegiance to any living leader
Today is a day of revenge (fight), at this the Prophet (Peace be upon him) became angry and said: Today is the day of open forgiveness, then he asked his enemies: How should I treat you today? They replied: We expect you to treat us Just like Prophet Joseph treated his wrongdoing brothers, the Prophet said in reply the same sentence which Joseph had said to his brothers: There is no questioning from you today and you are all free [Imam Ibn Hajr al-Asqalani, Fath ul Bari, Volume No. 8, Page No. 18]

6. POLARIZATION:
Extremists drive the groups apart. Hate groups broadcast polarizing propaganda. Laws may forbid intermarriage or social interaction. Extremist terrorism targets moderates, intimidating and silencing the center. Moderates from the perpetrators’ own group are most able to stop genocide, so are the first to be arrested and killed. Prevention may mean security protection for moderate leaders or assistance to human rights groups. Assets of extremists may be seized, and visas for international travel denied to them. Coups d’état by extremists should be opposed by international sanctions.


[5:87] O you who believe, do not prohibit good things that are made lawful by GOD, and do not aggress; GOD dislikes the aggressors.
[8:61] If they resort to peace, so shall you, and put your trust in GOD. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient.
[4:90] ... if they leave you alone, refrain from fighting you, and offer you peace, then GOD gives you no excuse to fight them.
[4:94] O you who believe, if you strike in the cause of GOD, you shall be absolutely sure. Do not say to one who offers you peace, "You are not a believer," seeking the spoils of this world. For GOD possesses infinite spoils. Remember that you used to be like them, and GOD blessed you. Therefore, you shall be absolutely sure (before you strike). GOD is fully Cognizant of everything you do.

7. PREPARATION:
National or perpetrator group leaders plan the “Final Solution” to the Jewish, Armenian, Tutsi or other targeted group “question.” They often use euphemisms to cloak their intentions, such as referring to their goals as “ethnic cleansing,” “purification,” or “counter-terrorism.” They build armies, buy weapons and train their troops and militias. They indoctrinate the populace with fear of the victim group. Leaders often claim that “if we don’t kill them, they will kill us.” Prevention of preparation may include arms embargos and commissions to enforce them. It should include prosecution of incitement and conspiracy to commit genocide, both crimes under Article 3 of the Genocide Convention.

[6:151] Say, "Come let me tell you what your Lord has really prohibited for you: You shall not set up idols besides Him. You shall honor your parents. You shall not kill your children from fear of poverty - we provide for you and for them. You shall not commit gross sins, obvious or hidden. You shall not kill - GOD has made life sacred - except in the course of justice. These are His commandments to you, that you may understand."
[17:33] You shall not kill any person - for GOD has made life sacred - except in the course of justice. If one is killed unjustly, then we give his heir authority to enforce justice. Thus, he shall not exceed the limits in avenging the murder; he will be helped.
[25:68] They never implore beside GOD any other god, nor do they kill anyone - for GOD has made life sacred - except in the course of justice. Nor do they commit adultery. Those who commit these offenses will have to pay.
[7:28] They commit a gross sin, then say, "We found our parents doing this, and GOD has commanded us to do it." Say, "GOD never advocates sin. Are you saying about GOD what you do not know?"

8. PERSECUTION:
Victims are identified and separated out because of their ethnic or religious identity. Death lists are drawn up. In state sponsored genocide, members of victim groups may be forced to wear identifying symbols. Their property is often expropriated. Sometimes they are even segregated into ghettoes, deported into concentration camps, or confined to a famine-struck region and starved. Genocidal massacres begin. They are acts of genocide because they intentionally destroy part of a group. At this stage, a Genocide Emergency must be declared. If the political will of the great powers, regional alliances, or the U.N. Security Council can be mobilized, armed international intervention should be prepared, or heavy assistance provided to the victim group to prepare for its self-defense. Humanitarian assistance should be organized by the U.N. and private relief groups for the inevitable tide of refugees to come.

Say, "Come, I will recite what your Lord has prohibited to you. [He commands] that you not associate anything with Him, and to parents, good treatment, and do not kill your children out of poverty; We will provide for you and them. And do not approach immoralities - what is apparent of them and what is concealed. And do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden [to be killed] except by [legal] right. This has He instructed you that you may use reason." An-Nam verse 151
“Beware of the supplication of the oppressed, even if he is an unbeliever, for there is no screen between it and Allah.” Saheeh Hadith in Musnad Ahmad 12140
45:14 "Tell those who believe, to forgive those who do not look forward to the days of Allah: It is for Him to recompense (for good or ill) each people acording to what they have earned."
"Let there be no compulsion (forcing others) in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy handhold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. (The Noble Quran, 2:256)


9. EXTERMINATION begins, and quickly becomes the mass killing legally called “genocide.” It is “extermination” to the killers because they do not believe their victims to be fully human. When it is sponsored by the state, the armed forces often work with militias to do the killing. Sometimes the genocide results in revenge killings by groups against each other, creating the downward whirlpool-like cycle of bilateral genocide (as in Burundi). At this stage, only rapid and overwhelming armed intervention can stop genocide. Real safe areas or refugee escape corridors should be established with heavily armed international protection. (An unsafe “safe” area is worse than none at all.) The U.N. Standing High Readiness Brigade, EU Rapid Response Force, or regional forces -- should be authorized to act by the U.N. Security Council if the genocide is small. For larger interventions, a multilateral force authorized by the U.N. should intervene. If the U.N. is paralyzed, regional alliances must act. It is time to recognize that the international responsibility to protect transcends the narrow interests of individual nation states. If strong nations will not provide troops to intervene directly, they should provide the airlift, equipment, and financial means necessary for regional states to intervene.
"If it had been your Lord’s will, they would all have believed – all of who are on earth! Will you then compel humankind, against their will, to believe?" (Quran 10:99)



10. DENIAL is the final stage that lasts throughout and always follows a genocide. It is among the surest indicators of further genocidal massacres. The perpetrators of genocide dig up the mass graves, burn the bodies, try to cover up the evidence and intimidate the witnesses. They deny that they committed any crimes, and often blame what happened on the victims. They block investigations of the crimes, and continue to govern until driven from power by force, when they flee into exile. There they remain with impunity, like Pol Pot or Idi Amin, unless they are captured and a tribunal is established to try them. The response to denial is punishment by an international tribunal or national courts. There the evidence can be heard, and the perpetrators punished. Tribunals like the Yugoslav or Rwanda Tribunals, or an international tribunal to try the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, or an International Criminal Court may not deter the worst genocidal killers. But with the political will to arrest and prosecute them, some may be brought to justice.


Moot point as there is no justification for genocide in the Qur'an. They does not they should be any mentioning of denial of genocide. However on a related issue, Lying is forbidden.

1. Lying is transgression

Allah (S.w.T.) says in Surah al-Baqarah:

“...there shall be no intercourse nor transgression nor quarreling amongst one another (during Hajj).” (Surah al-Baqarah 2:197)

The word “transgression” in this ayat refers to falsehood or lying.

Again in Surah al-Hujurāt it is mentioned:

“O you who believe! If an evil-doer comes to you with a report, look carefully into it, lest you harm a people in ignorance, then be sorry for what you have done.” (Surah al-Hujurāt 49:6)

This ayat was revealed for Walid, who is mentioned as an “evil-doer”; i.e. a liar.
2. Meaning of the term “false words”

Alongwith the prohibition of worshipping idols it is ordered by Allah (S.w.T.) to abstain from falsehood.

“...therefore avoid the uncleanness of the idols and avoid false words.” (Surah Hajj 22:30)

In this verse ‘false words’ mean lying.
3. The liar is not a believer

One of the verses quoted above demonstrates that a liar is not a believer and one who is a believer never speaks a lie. The verse pronounces:

“Only they forge the lie who do not believe in the signs of Allah.” (Surah an-Nahl 16:l05)

For it is clear that one who disbelieves in the divine communications cannot be a Mu’min (believer).
4. Lying is an evil and a sin

Traditions have mentioned lying as a sin and an evil. For example, Hazrat Muhammad al-Baqir (a.s.) says:

“Falsehood is absolutely an evil and a sin.”

The Seventeenth Greater Sin: Lying | Greater Sins Volume 2 | Books on Islam and Muslims | Al-Islam.org
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Old 04-18-2016, 10:50 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,581,295 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I will attempt to address each of the 10 points with quotes from the Qur'an and Ahadith (if applicable to clarify the Qur'an)

[b]1. CLASSIFICATION:
All cultures have categories to distinguish people into “us and them” by ethnicity, race, religion, or nationality: German and Jew, Hutu and Tutsi. Bipolar societies that lack mixed categories, such as Rwanda and Burundi, are the most likely to have genocide.

<snip> see above post for details
Noted your effort and the points above.

However you missed the very obvious from the 6,236 verses of the Quran that has relevance to the OP.

For example,

1. CLASSIFICATION:
All cultures have categories to distinguish people into “us and them” by ethnicity, race, religion, or nationality;


Islam and the Quran relied critically and heavily on the primal "us versus them" in a very negative attitude to promote its own superiority over all other religions.
To Islam, it is us [Muslims=good] and them [disbelievers=evil].
There are more than 3,200++ verses that contain such an evil element, i.e. "them" [infidels, disbelievers, kafara, kuffar, non-Muslims] with a terrible sense of contempt, hate, anger [wrath], condemnation and the likes.

2. SYMBOLIZATION:
We give names or other symbols to the classifications. We name people “Jews” or “Gypsies”, or distinguish them by colors or dress; and apply the symbols to members of groups.

This is so obvious in the Quran where non-Muslims are condemned with dehumanizing [apes, cattle, swines, asses, worst of creatures] and derogatory terms [infidels, disbelievers, kafara, kuffar, non-Muslims] with a terrible sense of contempt, hate, anger [wrath], condemnation and the likes.

3. DISCRIMINATION:
A dominant group uses law, custom, and political power to deny the rights of other groups.

This is obvious from the Quran where non-Muslims are to be dominated, subjugated, pay dehumanizing taxes, killed, etc.

4. DEHUMANIZATION:
One group denies the humanity of the other group. Members of it are equated with animals, vermin, insects or diseases. Dehumanization overcomes the normal human revulsion against murder.

This is another critical element that is present in the Quran.
The non-Muslims are dehumanized and equated with animals, i.e. pigs, apes, cattle, asses, worst of creatures.
Such dehumanizing terms and attitude should never be included in any holy texts as it will overcome the normal revulsion against murder.

I suggest you reread the Quran's 6,236 verses and note existence of verses that are related to the above elements.
I believe the verses therein are so obvious I do not have to quote and list them.

The rest of the points 5-10 follow naturally from the above 4 most critical points.
Point 1 is the most critical and carry the heaviest weightage.
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Old 04-19-2016, 07:38 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Noted your effort and the points above.

However you missed the very obvious from the 6,236 verses of the Quran that has relevance to the OP.

For example,

1. CLASSIFICATION:
All cultures have categories to distinguish people into “us and them” by ethnicity, race, religion, or nationality;


Islam and the Quran relied critically and heavily on the primal "us versus them" in a very negative attitude to promote its own superiority over all other religions.
To Islam, it is us [Muslims=good] and them [disbelievers=evil].
There are more than 3,200++ verses that contain such an evil element, i.e. "them" [infidels, disbelievers, kafara, kuffar, non-Muslims] with a terrible sense of contempt, hate, anger [wrath], condemnation and the likes.

2. SYMBOLIZATION:
We give names or other symbols to the classifications. We name people “Jews” or “Gypsies”, or distinguish them by colors or dress; and apply the symbols to members of groups.

This is so obvious in the Quran where non-Muslims are condemned with dehumanizing [apes, cattle, swines, asses, worst of creatures] and derogatory terms [infidels, disbelievers, kafara, kuffar, non-Muslims] with a terrible sense of contempt, hate, anger [wrath], condemnation and the likes.

3. DISCRIMINATION:
A dominant group uses law, custom, and political power to deny the rights of other groups.

This is obvious from the Quran where non-Muslims are to be dominated, subjugated, pay dehumanizing taxes, killed, etc.

4. DEHUMANIZATION:
One group denies the humanity of the other group. Members of it are equated with animals, vermin, insects or diseases. Dehumanization overcomes the normal human revulsion against murder.

This is another critical element that is present in the Quran.
The non-Muslims are dehumanized and equated with animals, i.e. pigs, apes, cattle, asses, worst of creatures.
Such dehumanizing terms and attitude should never be included in any holy texts as it will overcome the normal revulsion against murder.

I suggest you reread the Quran's 6,236 verses and note existence of verses that are related to the above elements.
I believe the verses therein are so obvious I do not have to quote and list them.

The rest of the points 5-10 follow naturally from the above 4 most critical points.
Point 1 is the most critical and carry the heaviest weightage.
I agree point one is the most important one and if it is non-existent the other 8 points will fall apart.

There is no discrimination in the Qur'an unless one grossly misunderstands it.

Just the opposite Islam advocates non-discrimination. To the point that we are are told we do not know who is a Muslim.

Using both the Qur'an and additional sources if needed to clarify the Qur"an I will attempt to point out how Islam tells us not to discriminate. This not the only way we are told not to discriminat

1.A Kafir is more then simply a non-believer.. A kafir is a person who knows Allah(swt) exists and Islam is the truth and deliberately opposes both

2. We do not know who is and who is not a Muslim

3. By discriminating we are calling people that may or may not be Muslim Kafir.


"As to those who reject Faith, It is the same to them Whether thou warn them Or do not warn them; They will not believe." The Holy Quran, 02:06 Al Baqarah

Abdullah Yusuf Ali's commentary: Kufr, Kafara, Kafir, and derivative forms of the word, imply a deliberate rejection of Faith as opposed to a mistaken idea of Allah or faith, which is not consistent with an ernest desire to see the truth. Where there is sch desire, the Grace and Mercy of Allah gives guidance. But that guidance is not efficacious when it is deliberately rejected, and the possibility of rejection follows from the grant of free will. The consequence of the rejection is that spiritual faculties become dead or impervious to better influence.

Be careful who you call Kafir because only Allah knows who is truly a rejector and who is merely a misguided person. It is not up to us to "sentence" a person to the Hellfire.

We must always maintain courtesy, diplomacy and a never-dying zeal to convey the message to others no matter how discouraging or useless it may seem - don't give up on a non-muslim because most people are good people who simply need a break from the anti-Islamic propaganda around them.

The Fastest Way to Leave Islam

It is always safest to assume that a non-muslim has been misguided, misinformed and fed lies and misconceptions about Islam and Muslims - don't jump to calling him a Kafir. Remove the name-calling from your articles and websites - wouldn't you rather be safe than sorry - name-calling, especially wrongly branding someone as 'evil', 'kafr' and 'manifestation of satan' - GHEEBOT - could entail dire consequences for us on Judgement Day.

Perhaps there is no faster way to leave Islam than by calling other Muslims "kafir" or "mushrik" without discrimination.

About calling other Muslims "kafir," we read the following hadith: It is reported on the authority of Ibn `Umar that the Prophet (may peace and blessings be upon him) said: Any person who calls his brother: O Unbeliever! (then the truth of this label) would return to one of them. If it is true, (then it is) as he asserted, (but if it is not true), then it returns to him (and thus the person who made the accusation is an Unbeliever). [Muslim]

Therefore, if you call other Muslims "kafir" or "mushrik" without discrimination, you could find that you have left Islam, according to the words of the Prophet (s.a.w.), in less than a second.
Be Careful who you call a Kafir

While we are specifically told not to call Muslims Kafir even accidently it also points out we should not call any one kafir as we just may be accidently calling a Muslim Kafir

Takfir or the condemnation of a Muslim by another Muslim as a kafir is strictly prohibited in the Quran, the Hadith, and the writings of many eminent Muslim authorities.

According to the Quran, if a person says assalamu alaikum to us to indicate that he is a Muslim, we cannot say to him "you are not a believer.'' (4:94)

The second thing we learn from this verse is that if, from among a non-Muslim people, a person addresses us by assalamu alaikum, that is sufficient proof that he is a Muslim. When such incidents took place during the Holy Prophet's life-time, sometimes it was suspected by some Muslims that such a person was not sincere. But the Holy Prophet would say to them: ``Did you tear open his heart to see what was in it?''

Thirdly, the verse cited above goes on to say: "You yourselves were like this before.'' That is, you too embraced Islam in this way, so what was sufficient for you is sufficient for them.

In the hadith Ibn Umar related that the Holy Prophet said: If a Muslim calls another kafir, then if he is a kafir let it be so; otherwise, he [the caller] is himself a kafir.'' (Abu Dawud, Book of Sunna, edition published by Quran Mahal, Karachi, vol. iii, p. 484)

Abu Zarr reported that the Holy Prophet said: No man accuses another man of being a sinner, or of being a kafir, but it reflects back on him if the other is not as he called him.'' (Bukhari, Book of Ethics; Book 78, ch. 44)
On the prohibition of takfir (a Muslim calling another Muslim a unbeliever): | Islamopedia Online

Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds; and may His blessings and peace be upon our Prophet Muhammad and upon all his Family and Companions.

Describing a Muslim by Kufr (disbelief) is a dangerous matter which should not be taken lightly. The Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi wa Sallam) said: "If a man says to his Muslim brother: "O, Kafir! (Disbeliever)", then one of the two will have Kufr drawn on him." Reported by Bukhari.

And in another narration the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi wa Sallam) said: "When the person says to his brother "O, Kafir! (Disbeliever)", then it is like killing him."

This is clear evidence that describing a specific person with disbelief (Kufr) is not an easy matter as it can lead to bad consequences in this life and in the Hereafter.

In fact, the Muslim does not become Kafir unless he says, or does or believes in something that the Qur'an or the Sunnah consider great Kufr (disbelief). Besides, there should be conditions of Kufr and absence of impediments such as compulsion and the like. So, one should beware of describing a Muslim by Kufr. Indeed, whether someone is Kafir is determined only by Allah and his Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi wa Sallam), not to the likes and inclinations of the people.

Calling a Muslim a non-Muslim - Islam web - English


While the above alone should be sufficient reason for a Muslim not to discriminate against non-Muslims, the Qur'an contains many reasons why we can not discriminate against non-Muslims

Will Everyone Be Treated Fairly?

Yes, absolutely. Allah always treats everyone with justice and fairness.

But read these verses of the Quran carefully, especially about the "People of the Book" (Jews & Christians):

These are the Verses of Allah: We recite them to you (O Muhammad peace be upon him) in truth, and Allah wills no injustice to the 'Alamin (mankind and Jinns).
And to Allah belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And all matters go back (for decision) to Allah.
You [true believers in Islamic Monotheism, and real followers of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him and commandments with him] are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind; you enjoin Al-Ma'ruf (i.e. Islamic Monotheism and all that Islam has ordained) and forbid Al-Munkar (polytheism, disbelief and all that Islam has forbidden), and you believe in Allah. And had the people of the Book (Jews and Christians) believed, it would have been better for them; among them are some who have faith, but most of them are Al-Fasiqun (disobedient to Allah - and rebellious against Allah's Command).
[Noble Quran 3:108-110]

Does Allah Treat Jews and Christians the same as Muslims ?

Some may question whether or no the "People of the Book" (Jews and Christians) living today might be considered as being "saved".

Actually, the Jews and Christians who believed in Allah as One God - and they tried to obey the commandments of Allah and follow the message which Allah sent with their particular messenger (such as Abraham, Moses, Jesus, etc.) are mentioned many times in Quran:
They are not all are the same; among the People of the Scripture is a community standing [in obedience], reciting the verses of Allah during periods of the night and prostrating [in prayer].
They believe in Allah and the Last Day, and they enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and hasten to good deeds.
And those are among the righteous. And whatever good they do - never will it be removed from them. And Allah is Knowing of the righteous.
[Noble Quran 3:113-115]
God Allah - Will All of Us Be Treated Equally?
The above shows that all people are to be viewed individually. No discrimination against a people as a group.Every person has to be treated fairly and without discrimination.

I think one reason people people believe Islam is discriminatory is because of the Dhimmi and the Jizya tax. Those are not discriminatory and actually assure fair and equal treatment of non-Muslims

In an ideal Islamic state, people are provided with a basic set of human rights. The non-Muslims citizens living under the laws of an Islamic state are referred to, under Islamic Law, as dhimmi. The term "dhimmi" means "protectee." It is derived from the word "dhimma," which means "obligation to fulfill a covenant." All the non-Muslims in that state are considered "Ahl ad-dhimma," the people of the covenant.

When Muhammad(pbuh) was chosen to be head of state in the city of Medina, he wrote the world's first constitution (available in full text at http://islamic-world.net/islamic-state/macharter.htm). He created a government which unified the various tribes and groups in the city and granted full freedom of religion for every person living there. All social, legal, and economic equality to the citizens was promised. Muhammad's constitution is a social contract, which gave a list of inalienable rights to every human being living there, Muslim or non-Muslim. No one following him can take those rights away. The "covenant" in question is the social contract for the citizens.

Islam considers all people living under the Islamic State as citizens of the State and treats them with equal status. Discrimination between Muslims and non-Muslim citizens is not allowed. The state must secure and protect their beliefs, honor, mind, property and life. An Islamic state would be an Islamically Limited Republic (ie. Based on the Quran and Sunnah and Fiqh), which prevents the majority from making rules that screw over any minority. Contrary to what BadmanX asserts, dhimmis most definitely were allowed land and any choice of animal they wanted.

An important rule of law set down is that nobody can be forced to convert to Islam. The Qur'an commands "Let there be no compulsion in religion (2:256)" as was revealed by Muhammad while he was in Medina. Non-Muslims were given equality with Muslims under the laws, and are left to their own beliefs. Muslims can marry "people of the scripture" (Jews, Christians, some say Zoroastrians) and can do business with non-Muslims. Muhammad himself used to conduct business deals with the nearby Jewish tribes and always fulfilled them. He also would hire non-Muslims.

The Quran, which Muslims consider the Word of God, guides the Muslims thus: "God forbids you not, with regards to those who fight you not for [your] faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them; for God loveth those who are just." (Quran, 60:8) The meaning of this is that God has not forbidden anybody to be kind to or fair to non-Muslims who are good people. There is no command to shun all non-Muslims.
dhimmi - Everything2.com
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Old 04-19-2016, 10:53 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
1. CLASSIFICATION:
All cultures have categories to distinguish people into “us and them” by ethnicity, race, religion, or nationality;


Islam and the Quran relied critically and heavily on the primal "us versus them" in a very negative attitude to promote its own superiority over all other religions.
To Islam, it is us [Muslims=good] and them [disbelievers=evil].
There are more than 3,200++ verses that contain such an evil element, i.e. "them" [infidels, disbelievers, kafara, kuffar, non-Muslims] with a terrible sense of contempt, hate, anger [wrath], condemnation and the likes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I agree point one [bolded] is the most important one and if it is non-existent the other 8 points will fall apart.
Do you agree on the following;

1. The Quran on an overall basis rely on the "us versus them" concept to differentiate Muslims and non-Muslims, i.e. believers and disbelievers.
2. There are verses [many] in the Quran that support point 1. [you can read and decide for yourself]
3. There are 3200++ verses that support point 1. [I will have to provide evidence on this]


Quote:
There is no discrimination in the Qur'an unless one grossly misunderstands it.
Just the opposite Islam advocates non-discrimination. To the point that we are are told we do not know who is a Muslim.
Using both the Qur'an and additional sources if needed to clarify the Qur"an I will attempt to point out how Islam tells us not to discriminate. This not the only way we are told not to discriminat

1.A Kafir is more then simply a non-believer.. A kafir is a person who knows Allah(swt) exists and Islam is the truth and deliberately opposes both
2. We do not know who is and who is not a Muslim
3. By discriminating we are calling people that may or may not be Muslim Kafir.

According to the Quran, if a person says assalamu alaikum to us to indicate that he is a Muslim, we cannot say to him "you are not a believer.'' (4:94)
Note 4:94
4:94. O ye [Muslims] who believe! When ye [Muslims] go forth (to fight) in the way of Allah, be careful to discriminate, and say not unto one who offereth you [a greeting, salutation of] peace: "Thou are not a believer;" seeking the chance profits of this life (so that ye may despoil him). With Allah are plenteous spoils. Even thus (as he now is) were ye before; but Allah hath since then been gracious unto you. Therefore take care to discriminate. Allah is ever informed of what ye do.
The point here is 4:94 condone discrimination.
A Muslim cannot say "you are not a believer'' is related to matter where one try to chance on profits.

In general the Quran discriminate between Muslims and non-Muslims on a primal 'us versus them' in a very negative and potential evil mode.
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Old 04-20-2016, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Do you agree on the following;

1. The Quran on an overall basis rely on the "us versus them" concept to differentiate Muslims and non-Muslims, i.e. believers and disbelievers.
2. There are verses [many] in the Quran that support point 1. [you can read and decide for yourself]
3. There are 3200++ verses that support point 1. [I will have to provide evidence on this]




Note 4:94
4:94. O ye [Muslims] who believe! When ye [Muslims] go forth (to fight) in the way of Allah, be careful to discriminate, and say not unto one who offereth you [a greeting, salutation of] peace: "Thou are not a believer;" seeking the chance profits of this life (so that ye may despoil him). With Allah are plenteous spoils. Even thus (as he now is) were ye before; but Allah hath since then been gracious unto you. Therefore take care to discriminate. Allah is ever informed of what ye do.
The point here is 4:94 condone discrimination.
A Muslim cannot say "you are not a believer'' is related to matter where one try to chance on profits.

In general the Quran discriminate between Muslims and non-Muslims on a primal 'us versus them' in a very negative and potential evil mode.
Another case of translators attempting to approximate a word that has no English equivelant and using a word the feel comes closest. Here the word is:

fatabayyanoo فَتَبَيَّنُواْ

Which carries the meanings of:

تبين, فهم, ميز, فطن, رأى, سمع
(Reading from Right to left mean)Turns out, understand, distinguished , high-end , he saw, heard


Which basically is the concept of using good judgement and acting in a honorable manner. In the context of the ayyat it means to not call anyone who greets us a non-Muslim nor covet his possessions.

Here are Asad, Ali and Pickthall

[Hence,] O you who have attained to faith, when you go forth [to war] in God's cause, use your discernment, and do not - out of a desire for the fleeting gains of this worldly life - say unto anyone who offers you the greeting of peace, "Thou art not a believer" [119] for with God there are gains abundant. You, too, were once in the same condition [120] - but God has been gracious unto you. Use, therefore, your discernment: verily, God is always aware of what you do. - 4:94 (Asad)

O ye who believe! When ye go abroad in the cause of Allah, investigate carefully, and say not to any one who offers you a salutation: "Thou art none of a believer!" Coveting the perishable goods of this life: with Allah are profits and spoils abundant. Even thus were ye yourselves before, till Allah conferred on you His favours: Therefore carefully investigate. For Allah is well aware of all that ye do. - 4:94 (Y. Ali)

O ye who believe! When ye go forth (to fight) in the way of Allah, be careful to discriminate, and say not unto one who offereth you peace: "Thou are not a believer;" seeking the chance profits of this life (so that ye may despoil him). With Allah are plenteous spoils. Even thus (as he now is) were ye before; but Allah hath since then been gracious unto you. Therefore take care to discriminate. Allah is ever informed of what ye do. - 4:94 (Picktall)
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Old 04-21-2016, 03:32 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Another case of translators attempting to approximate a word that has no English equivelant and using a word the feel comes closest. Here the word is:

fatabayyanoo فَتَبَيَّنُواْ

Which carries the meanings of:

تبين, فهم, ميز, فطن, رأى, سمع
(Reading from Right to left mean)Turns out, understand, distinguished , high-end , he saw, heard


Which basically is the concept of using good judgement and acting in a honorable manner. In the context of the ayyat it means to not call anyone who greets us a non-Muslim nor covet his possessions.

Here are Asad, Ali and Pickthall

[Hence,] O you who have attained to faith, when you go forth [to war] in God's cause, use your discernment, and do not - out of a desire for the fleeting gains of this worldly life - say unto anyone who offers you the greeting of peace, "Thou art not a believer" [119] for with God there are gains abundant. You, too, were once in the same condition [120] - but God has been gracious unto you. Use, therefore, your discernment: verily, God is always aware of what you do. - 4:94 (Asad)

O ye who believe! When ye go abroad in the cause of Allah, investigate carefully, and say not to any one who offers you a salutation: "Thou art none of a believer!" Coveting the perishable goods of this life: with Allah are profits and spoils abundant. Even thus were ye yourselves before, till Allah conferred on you His favours: Therefore carefully investigate. For Allah is well aware of all that ye do. - 4:94 (Y. Ali)

O ye who believe! When ye go forth (to fight) in the way of Allah, be careful to discriminate, and say not unto one who offereth you peace: "Thou are not a believer;" seeking the chance profits of this life (so that ye may despoil him). With Allah are plenteous spoils. Even thus (as he now is) were ye before; but Allah hath since then been gracious unto you. Therefore take care to discriminate. Allah is ever informed of what ye do. - 4:94 (Picktall)
Regardless 4:94 still imply there are believers [us] and there are disbelievers [them]. This verse may not be very negative to disbelievers [them] but there are thousands of other verses that differentiated between believers [us =good] and disbelievers [them =evil] where Allah rained the most derogatory words on the disbelievers [them].

Btw, you have not replied to the following, especially Q1 and Q2.

Do you agree on the following;

1. The Quran on an overall basis rely on the "us versus them" concept to differentiate Muslims and non-Muslims, i.e. believers and disbelievers.
2. There are verses [many] in the Quran that support point 1. [you can read and decide for yourself]
3. There are 3200++ verses that support point 1. [I will have to provide evidence on this]
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Old 04-21-2016, 08:30 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Regardless 4:94 still imply there are believers [us] and there are disbelievers [them]. This verse may not be very negative to disbelievers [them] but there are thousands of other verses that differentiated between believers [us =good] and disbelievers [them =evil] where Allah rained the most derogatory words on the disbelievers [them].

Btw, you have not replied to the following, especially Q1 and Q2.

Do you agree on the following;

1. The Quran on an overall basis rely on the "us versus them" concept to differentiate Muslims and non-Muslims, i.e. believers and disbelievers.
2. There are verses [many] in the Quran that support point 1. [you can read and decide for yourself]
3. There are 3200++ verses that support point 1. [I will have to provide evidence on this]

So far I have not found anything I understand as promoting an us versus them concept. It is not a competition. My overall impression is We are to be respectful to all people and treat all people equally.

My own experience when living in Muslim nations as a Christian I had the option to live where I desired but there were Specific Christian areas that Muslims could not enter unless invited. Within those area one could openly practice Christianity and in more then one nation even have discotheques, night clups etc and no dress codes. But if a non-Muslim chose to live in a Muslim area they had to abide by the community rules, no pork products, no alcohol, dress modestly etc.

In Saudi the non-Muslim compounds were cities in themselves and very much like living in a medium size American city. But if a non-Muslim Chose to live in a Muslim community they had to abide by the rules.

As for the verses many non-Muslims call supporting the us vs them concept I will just give a paritial answer to one. The rest of the answer on that one will be found in the link.

9:29 (at tauba) OF QURAN DOES’NT ENCOURAGE MUSLIMS TO TERRORISM

With valuable inputs from brother Sami Zaatari of answering-christianity team

You may also be interested in the following:-

Other verses that allege Muslims to Violence and their correct explanations

Verse 9:29 of Surah at-tauba is probably the intentionally most misinterpreted verse of the Quran. This is what it says: –

“Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth , (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” S. 9:29 Y. Ali

Dear brother mansour, I totally understand you when you say that this verse promotes violence on a cursory glance. But if you read it carefully you’ll find that it doesn’t. I hope you will be patient enough to be with me throughout the end of this article.

The verse says “Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth”.
My question to you brother. Does this verse stop here? No it doesnt. It continues and gives the actual reason as to the fighting. This is the continuation: – “until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued”.

1. PAYING JIZYA IS THE CONDITION FOR FIGHTING. THIS STATEMENT IS TOTALLY IGNORED OR OVERLOOKED WHEN LEVYING THIS ALLEGATION OF VIOLENCE ON MUSLIMS.

This verse doesn’t ask the Muslims to do mindless slaughter as the media portrays or deceives. It gives the Muslims the permission to fight only those non-Muslims who do not pay jizya – the state tax. And we all know that jizya is applicable only in an Islamic state. Neither India, nor US or Britain are Islamic states. So to put this verse as an excuse for what happened there only shows how biased, unknowledgable and unfair the media is and it hurts us deeply.

I can show whole verses from other scriptures that are truly inhuman, yet no one questions them. Do you want a sample? Ill give it to you at the end. I promise.

2. THE VERSE DOES NOT ASK THE MUSLIMS TO DO FORCEFUL CONVERSIONS.

Again, the verse permits the muslims to fight the non –muslims in an islamic state ONLY and ONLY if they refuse to pay the jizya – Willingly . Re-read the verse from ANY translation if you are not sure. But once they pay the jizya tax they can continue to believe in their atheistic pagan beliefs, but it will be under an Islamic state. You can still forgive them by not forcing them into Islam, nor oppressing them or being bad to them because of their wrong beliefs.
https://prophetrejectors.wordpress.c...-to-terrorism/
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Old 04-22-2016, 12:14 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,581,295 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
My own experience when living in Muslim nations as a Christian I had the option to live where I desired but there were Specific Christian areas that Muslims could not enter unless invited. Within those area one could openly practice Christianity and in more then one nation even have discotheques, night clups etc and no dress codes. But if a non-Muslim chose to live in a Muslim area they had to abide by the community rules, no pork products, no alcohol, dress modestly etc.

In Saudi the non-Muslim compounds were cities in themselves and very much like living in a medium size American city. But if a non-Muslim Chose to live in a Muslim community they had to abide by the rules.

As for the verses many non-Muslims call supporting the us vs them concept I will just give a paritial answer to one. The rest of the answer on that one will be found in the link.

9:29 (at tauba) OF QURAN DOES’NT ENCOURAGE MUSLIMS TO TERRORISM

With valuable inputs from brother Sami Zaatari of answering-christianity team

You may also be interested in the following:-

Other verses that allege Muslims to Violence and their correct explanations

Verse 9:29 of Surah at-tauba is probably the intentionally most misinterpreted verse of the Quran. This is what it says: –

“Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth , (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” S. 9:29 Y. Ali

Dear brother mansour, I totally understand you when you say that this verse promotes violence on a cursory glance. But if you read it carefully you’ll find that it doesn’t. I hope you will be patient enough to be with me throughout the end of this article.

The verse says “Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth”.
My question to you brother. Does this verse stop here? No it doesnt. It continues and gives the actual reason as to the fighting. This is the continuation: – “until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued”.

1. PAYING JIZYA IS THE CONDITION FOR FIGHTING. THIS STATEMENT IS TOTALLY IGNORED OR OVERLOOKED WHEN LEVYING THIS ALLEGATION OF VIOLENCE ON MUSLIMS.

This verse doesn’t ask the Muslims to do mindless slaughter as the media portrays or deceives. It gives the Muslims the permission to fight only those non-Muslims who do not pay jizya – the state tax. And we all know that jizya is applicable only in an Islamic state. Neither India, nor US or Britain are Islamic states. So to put this verse as an excuse for what happened there only shows how biased, unknowledgable and unfair the media is and it hurts us deeply.

I can show whole verses from other scriptures that are truly inhuman, yet no one questions them. Do you want a sample? Ill give it to you at the end. I promise.

2. THE VERSE DOES NOT ASK THE MUSLIMS TO DO FORCEFUL CONVERSIONS.

Again, the verse permits the muslims to fight the non –muslims in an islamic state ONLY and ONLY if they refuse to pay the jizya – Willingly . Re-read the verse from ANY translation if you are not sure. But once they pay the jizya tax they can continue to believe in their atheistic pagan beliefs, but it will be under an Islamic state. You can still forgive them by not forcing them into Islam, nor oppressing them or being bad to them because of their wrong beliefs.
https://prophetrejectors.wordpress.c...-to-terrorism/
Your above are way off point at present.

Quote:
So far I have not found anything I understand as promoting an us versus them concept. It is not a competition. My overall impression is We are to be respectful to all people and treat all people equally.
I asked:
1. The Quran [6,236 verses] on an overall basis rely on the "us versus them" concept to differentiate Muslims and non-Muslims, i.e. believers and disbelievers.

Does the Quran divide all humans into two camps? i.e.
1. Muslims and non-Muslims, YES/NO
2. believers and disbelievers, YES/NO
3. Muslims and kuffar, YES/NO

Can you give a yes or no answer to the above.

If yes, how many verses of the 6,236 refer to non-Muslims, disbelievers or kuffar?

I hope you answer the above questions directly first without addition any explanations.

If you want to comment on your answers, you can do that separately in the next post.

Notes:
The Psychology of "Us versus Them"
Quote:
In sociology and social psychology, an ingroup is a social group to which a person psychologically identifies as being a member. By contrast, an outgroup is a social group with which an individual does not identify. For example, people may find it psychologically meaningful to view ourselves according to our race, culture, gender, age or religion. It has been found that the psychological membership of social groups and categories is associated with a wide variety of phenomena.

The terminology was made popular by Henri Tajfel and colleagues during his work in formulating social identity theory. The significance of ingroup and outgroup categorization was identified using a method called the minimal group paradigm. Tajfel and colleagues found that people can form self-preferencing ingroups within a matter of minutes and that such groups can form even on the basis of seemingly trivial characteristics, such as preferences for certain paintings.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingroups_and_outgroups
http://www.theemotionmachine.com/the...ally-divide-us

Last edited by Continuum; 04-22-2016 at 12:22 AM..
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Old 04-22-2016, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Your above are way off point at present.



I asked:
1. The Quran [6,236 verses] on an overall basis rely on the "us versus them" concept to differentiate Muslims and non-Muslims, i.e. believers and disbelievers.

Does the Quran divide all humans into two camps? i.e.
1. Muslims and non-Muslims, YES/NO
2. believers and disbelievers, YES/NO
3. Muslims and kuffar, YES/NO

Can you give a yes or no answer to the above.

If yes, how many verses of the 6,236 refer to non-Muslims, disbelievers or kuffar?

I hope you answer the above questions directly first without addition any explanations.

If you want to comment on your answers, you can do that separately in the next post.

Notes:
The Psychology of "Us versus Them"


The Us vs. Them Mentality: How Group Thinking Can Irrationally Divide Us
No, the Qur'an does not rely on "Us vs Them."
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