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Old 04-22-2016, 03:01 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Continuum,
I had posted without reading your last post. I can see that you have come a long way forward in understanding "eeman" but there are still a few creases to be ironed out in your understanding of "eeman".

Keep working at it!
You are being condescending when you have a very wrong [constipated] view of what is eeman [strict and loose].

I have no problem understanding what is eeman [strict and loose] from the Islamic perspective as portrayed in the Quran, its correlation with generic belief [believing, believe, faith] in whatever the language and its place within the sphere of religions and spirituality.

I believed it is you who should make an attempt to "open up your eyes" to understand what eeman really is from within the Quran so that you can proceed with an incremental path to please God on Judgment Day to gain greater rewards.
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Old 04-22-2016, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,289,226 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Posted here for relevance.
Original:



This statement don't make sense,
Eeman is an Islamic Belief, but it does not mean belief

This is like saying "pasta" is Italian food, but it does not mean food.
Pasta is obviously "food" but it is specifically Italian food.

It is also like say "cockatoo" is an Australian bird but it does not mean 'bird'.
A cockatoo is obviously a bird but it is specifically a bird [parrot] found in Australia.

As with the above "eeman" definitely mean beliefs but it is specifically 'belief' that is Islamic in accordance to the Quran.

Your 'Golden Rule' analogy is not applicable.
Close but still missing the boat.

Pasta= a specific Italian food

Food -That which is consumed for nourishment

I have a table and on it are Pasta, Hamburgers, peach cobbler, roast Turkey, Rye bread
I can call all of them Food but I can only call one of them Pasta
Pasta is not the definition of food

I have many beliefs some of the being ?The Golden Rule" "Equality for all" Eeman, "Macro Evolution" Theism, heaven
I can call all of them belief but can only call one of them Eeman
Eeman is not the definition of belief


You can not use cockatoo in place of bird, Pasta in place of food or Eeman in place of belief

It is an error to translate Eeman as belief
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Last edited by Woodrow LI; 04-22-2016 at 09:29 AM..
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Old 04-22-2016, 01:38 PM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,039,481 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
You are being condescending when you have a very wrong [constipated] view of what is eeman [strict and loose].

I have no problem understanding what is eeman [strict and loose] from the Islamic perspective as portrayed in the Quran, its correlation with generic belief [believing, believe, faith] in whatever the language and its place within the sphere of religions and spirituality.

I believed it is you who should make an attempt to "open up your eyes" to understand what eeman really is from within the Quran so that you can proceed with an incremental path to please God on Judgment Day to gain greater rewards.
Thank you for your advice but I can see that you have gone back into your old shell again, after coming out of it for a short time. Obviously I was wrong to think that you have learnt something from these posts; you still haven't.

As long as you keep thinking about eeman in two different terms (loose and strict) and not in precise term, you will never learn about eeman. The reason for that is that you are not thinking about eeman (precise term) but about English words "believe", "belief", "believing" and "faith" (in loose and strict terms).
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Old 04-22-2016, 01:45 PM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,039,481 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
It is an error to translate Eeman as belief
I agree!

Translating it as "beliefs" is worse.

Translating it as 6 beliefs would be worst.
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Old 04-22-2016, 02:03 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
I agree!

Translating it as "beliefs" is worse.

Translating it as 6 beliefs would be worst.
My own personal concept is it is a state of happiness that results from it.
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Old 04-22-2016, 03:50 PM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,039,481 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
My own personal concept is it is a state of happiness that results from it.
Yes, a state of happiness, content, peace and tranquility in our hearts.
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Old 04-22-2016, 08:39 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,585,301 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Close but still missing the boat.

Pasta= a specific Italian food

Food -That which is consumed for nourishment

I have a table and on it are Pasta, Hamburgers, peach cobbler, roast Turkey, Rye bread
I can call all of them Food but I can only call one of them Pasta
Pasta is not the definition of food

I have many beliefs some of the being ?The Golden Rule" "Equality for all" Eeman, "Macro Evolution" Theism, heaven
I can call all of them belief but can only call one of them Eeman
Eeman is not the definition of belief


You can not use cockatoo in place of bird, Pasta in place of food or Eeman in place of belief

It is an error to translate Eeman as belief
Woodrow LI: It is an error to translate Eeman as belief.
Btw, did you read what I wrote in post #5. i.e.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Note my OP, the critical words are "correlated" and "reconcilable."
I did not insist "eeman" is exactly "belief" [English].
Can you confirm I have not insisted "eeman is translated as exactly "belief", other you will keep repeating falsehoods ad nauseam.

I understand "pasta" is not the exact definition of food.
But "pasta" is fundamentally 'food' i.e. a kind of food from Italy.
Therefore there is nothing wrong to state 'pasta is food' with contexts [as a type of food] .
It would be wrong of say 'food is pasta' regardless of contexts.

Thus similarly,
there is nothing wrong to state 'eeman is beliefs' with contexts,
-the point here I am not stating 'eeman is exactly beliefs by definition.
It would be wrong to say 'belief is eeman' without contexts.

Get it?

Last edited by Continuum; 04-22-2016 at 08:53 PM..
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Old 04-22-2016, 08:48 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,585,301 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
My own personal concept is it is a state of happiness that results from it.
This is not accurate at all.

Eeman is a type of belief, i.e. Islamic and defined within the Quran.
A belief is a state of mind arising from the process of believing.

The specific state of belief [in this case eeman] do not necessary generate happiness but can generate equanimity, calmness and in the extreme 'a state of belief' can even generate evilness [anger, hatred, etc.] if the person is evil prone.
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Old 04-22-2016, 09:10 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,585,301 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
As long as you keep thinking about eeman in two different terms (loose and strict) and not in precise term, you will never learn about eeman. The reason for that is that you are not thinking about eeman (precise term) but about English words "believe", "belief", "believing" and "faith" (in loose and strict terms).
Eeman has the following root words.
Alif-Meem-Nun

If you are linguistic competent [I know you are not] you will find that "eeman" has the same root and is within the same family of words [bolded], like believe, believers, faith, beliefs.

The critical term here is the mental process of believing [aamana] which results in believers [mu'min] who has beliefs [eeman].

Those not bolded belong to a different family [indirectly related], e.g. trust, secure, safe, peace, etc.

Thus,
Eeman is belief [one type of belief within its qualified contexts] but
Belief is not eeman regardless of the contexts.

In the Quran the words related to eeman are used in the strict and loose sense.


Alif-Meem-Nun and its family of related words.
Amina
(prf. 3rd. p.m. sing.)
Became safe; Considered one self safe; Trusted a person.

Aminuu
(prf. 3rd. p.m. plu.)
They are in safety.

Amintum
(prf. 2nd. p.m. plu.)
You are in safety.

Antintu
(prf. 1st. p. sing.)
I trusted.

Ya'manu
(imp. 3rd. p.m. sing.)
He feels secure.

Ya'manuu
(imp. 3rd. p.m. plu.)
They trust.

Ta'manu
(imp. 2nd p.m. sing.)
Thou trusts.

Aamanu
(imp. 1st. p. sing.)
I shall trust.

Aamana
(prf. 3rd. p. m. sing. IV)
He believed, had a faith.

Aamanat
(prf. 3rd p. f. sing.)
She believed.

Aamantu
(prf. 1st. P. sing. IV)
I believed.

Aamanuu
(prf. 3rd. p.m. plu.)
They believed.

Aamantum
(prf. 2nd. p.m. plu.)
You believed.

Aamannaa
(prf. 1st. p. plu.)
We believed.

Yu'mina
(imp. 3rd p.m. sing.)
He believes.

Tu'minuu
(imp. 2nd. p. m. plu.)
You believe.

Yu'minuuna
(imp. 3rd. p. m. plu.)
They believe.

Tuu'minu / Tuminuuna
(imp. 2nd. p. m. plu.)
You believe.

Nu'minu
(imp. 1st. p. plu.)
We believe.

Yu'minanna
(imp. 3rd. p.m. sing. emphatic.)
He certainly shall believe.

Tuu'minanna
(imp. 2nd. p. m. sing. emp.)
Thou shall have to believe.

Nu'minanna
(imp. 1st. p. plu. emp.)
We shall certainly be believing.

Aman
(n.)
Security. Peace.

Aaminun/Aaminatu
(act. pic. m. sing.) / (act. p.c. f sing.)
Peaceful.

Aaminiina/ Aaminuuna
(acc./ act. pie. m. plu.)
Those who are safe, in peace, secure.

Amiinun
(act. 2nd. pic.)
Trustworthy; Faithful; Steadfast.

Aamanatun
(n.)
Security.

Amaanatun
(n.)
Trust; Security; Pledge; Covenant; Faith; Trust. Duties; Government; Governed duties.

Amaanaat
(n. plu.)
Trusts.

U'tumina
(n.)
Who is entrusted.

Iimaan
(n.)
Faith; Belief.

Aamiin
Be it so; Yes.

Muu'min
(ap-der. m. sing. IV)
Believer.

Muu'miniin / Muu'minuuna
(acc./ ap-der. m. plu. IV)
Believers.

Muu'minaatun
(ap-der. female. sing. IV):
Believer

Muu'minaatun
(ap-der. f. plu. IV)
Believing women.

Ma'manun
(n. for place)
Place of safety.

Ma'muunun
(pact. pic.)
Secured.

Last edited by Continuum; 04-22-2016 at 09:29 PM..
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Old 04-22-2016, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,289,226 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
This is not accurate at all.

Eeman is a type of belief, i.e. Islamic and defined within the Quran.
A belief is a state of mind arising from the process of believing.

The specific state of belief [in this case eeman] do not necessary generate happiness but can generate equanimity, calmness and in the extreme 'a state of belief' can even generate evilness [anger, hatred, etc.] if the person is evil prone.

Eeman is not a type of belief. It is a label to identify a specific group of beliefs.
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