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Old 05-18-2016, 07:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
اميين is not amin it is a mis-spelling of أميون 'ummiuwn. Amin is spelled أمين and means trustworthy ummiuwn means illiterate

As Arabic had not yet developed fully as a written language, it is quite logical that the majority were illiterate.Prior to the enlightenment of Islam the Arabs were quite barbaric and primitive. Education was not one of their strong points. Written Arabic did not begin developing until about 100 years before the birth of Muhammad(saws)Yes there probably were some Arabs that spoke and wrote other languages such as hebrew, Aramaic, Greek or Latin. But as there was no fully functioning written Arabic, the average Arab of the time was probably illiterate. It was quite a distinction to be a scribe, a person that could read and write. Being a Scribe was quite a highly respected profession.

I think it would be quite probable that if Muhammad(saws) had written as much as one word, it would have been collected and saved by somebody and revered as a highly respected item to possess. No place has there every been any mention of some one owning something that was written by Muhammad(saws)
Arabs do not speak Aramaic and Hebrew
It translates the Hebrew book into Arabic
Was the cousin of Mohammed translates the Hebrew book into Arabic
his name is waraka ebn noval
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Old 05-18-2016, 07:54 PM
 
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[RIGHT]n eayishat qalat hadith tawil 'ann khadijatan 'atat bialnnabi 'iilaa waraqat bin nnawfal wahu aibn eummuha kan 'umra' tansur fi aljahiliat wakan yaktub alkitab aleibrani fayaktab bialerbyt min al'iinjil ma sha' alllah 'an yaktub falamma mmat waraqat fitr alwahya(anqutaea) hatta huzn alnnabi fima balaghna hazanana ghadaan minh miraraan kay yataradda min ruuws shawahiq aljibal likay yulqi binafsih fayatabadda lah jibril faqal ya muhammad 'innak rasul alllah haqqana fa'iidha talat fitratu(anqitaeiha) alwahy ghadaan limithl dhallik..
(*) sahih albikhari bab ma badi bih saleum alwahy alrruya alssalihati.almusand lil'iimam 'ahmad bin hnbil bab musannid eayishat.nihayat al'arb fi funun al'adab lilnnawiri bab dhakar fatrat alwahy ean alnnabi sallaeum wama 'unzil baed fitratih.
* kan baed nuzul jbryl ealayh baqra basm rabbik mukth mdtan la yaraa jbryl 'ay wa'innama kan kdhlk liudhhib ma kan yajidh min alrrueb walyahsul lah alttushwyq 'iilaa alewd wamin thamm hazn ldhlk hazanana shadidana hatta ghadaan miraraan kay yataradda min rraws shawahiq aljibal fakullama 'awfaa bidhurwat kay yulqi nafsih minha tabdaa lah jabril ealayh alslam faqal ya muhammad 'innak rasul alllah haqa.. fa'iidha talat ealiat fatratan ghadaan limithl dhalik.. kay yulqi binafsih .. wafi fath albari 'ann 'abn ashaqq jizm bi'annaha thlath sinin qal 'abu alqasim alssahili qad ja' fi bed al'ahadith almusannadat 'ann mdt hadhih alfatrat kanat sanatayn wanisf .. ..
(*) alssayrat alhilbiat lil'iimam burhan alddin alhilbi bab bad' alwahy lah sileum.
limadha ainqatae alwahi baed mawt wrq? limadha alhuzn waljuze baed mawt wrq? limadha 'aqdam muhammad ealaa alaintihar miraraan baed mawt waraqat wainqitae alwahy 'iidha kan mmumin bi'annah nabi walam yukhalith alshk?[/RIGHT]


N Aisha said a long talk that Khadija came prophet to the paper bin Nofal, a cousin princes victory in ignorance and he was writing the Hebrew book writes in Arabic from the Bible, God willing, to write when he died and paper after the revelation (interrupted) until the sadness of the Prophet as we reported in grief tomorrow it repeatedly to deteriorate Hoahq from the tops of the mountains to cast himself Vibdy him Jibril said to you, O Muhammad, the Messenger of Allah is really a prolonged period (disconnection) revelation tomorrow to like it ..

(*) Sahih Bukhari door is the start Otto revelation of Alsalehh.almsend of Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal door armrest Aaihh.nhih Alorb in the arts of literature for Noara door said the revelation of the Prophet PBUH and what was revealed after his term.

* The after going down Jibril it Baghero name of your Lord stayed for a period not see Jibril any, but it was also to go what he finds horror and gets his thrill to the lute and then sadness was devastated until tomorrow repeatedly to deteriorate from the heads Hoahq mountains Whenever fuller peak to cast himself which show him Jibril, peace be upon him, said, O Muhammad, the Messenger of Allah you really .. a prolonged period Garret tomorrow like that .. to cast himself .. in Baari that Ibn Ishaq averred as three years, said Abu al-Qasim Sehili has come in some conversations assigned to The duration of this period was two and a half .. ..

(*) Aleppo biography of Imam al-Halabi door Burhanuddin start Otto revelation to him.

Why cut off the revelation after the death of paper? Why sadness and anxiety after the death of paper? Why oldest Mohammed repeatedly to commit suicide after the death of a paper cutout revelation believer that if the Prophet was mixed with doubt?
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Old 05-18-2016, 08:12 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
1-If you read Arabic, check with Koranic texts
So you know those verses
2-But you say that the Arabic language did not evolve is proof that the Koran written by the evolution of the Arabic language
This talk is very dangerous
Because the Muslims say that the Qur'an came down from heaven
Written on a Preserved tablet
If when the Quran was revealed it is necessary


it came down in its final form.
3-
I do agree that the Arabic language has evolved, but the development was after Muhammad's death

Because the original version of the Koran letters without a point or points

Who put points on the letters is the Arab Umayyad King Abdul Aziz Omar N.

The so-called fifth Caliphs because of this action

And saved the Koran and Muslims where important point in the Arabic script

This is a simple example of the importance of the character point د could become ذ with point
Arabic has evolved consideragly. Modern Arabic has very little resemblance to Qur'anic Arabic. but Qur'anic Arabic has remained unchanged. On the Arabian peninsula alone there are at least 7 different variations of Arabic spoken.


Non Arabic speakers that learn only Qur'anic Arabic can not speak any dialect of Arabic. However if a person learns any dialect of Arabic they have no trouble reading the Qur'an. I am not an expert in Arabic as I have only been speaking it for 53 years and most of that time only the Moroccan Dialect. I have only begun learning MSA (Modern Standard Arabic) about 6 or 7 years ago. I first learned to read Qur'anic Arabic in 1963 as a Christian Evangelist trying to convert Muslims to Christianity. I have only been Muslim since 2005. Most of my life has been as a person seeking to show the Qur'an and Islam are wrong. But I now know I was in error all those years.


Show me any source that says the Qur'an came down on a "Preserved Tablet".

It came as a recitation and that is what Qu'ran means ---recitation. the actual Qur'an is the recitation. The Written Qur'an is secondary and is a man made tool.

The preservation of the Qur'an means that there will always be people that know the actual recitation as it was revealed.

No person has ever spoke Qur'anic Arabic as a language, Not even Muhammad(saws) it exists no place except in the Qur'an and no one has ever been able to make an original sentence in Qur'anic Arabic.
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Old 05-18-2016, 10:25 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Arabic has evolved consideragly. Modern Arabic has very little resemblance to Qur'anic Arabic. but Qur'anic Arabic has remained unchanged. On the Arabian peninsula alone there are at least 7 different variations of Arabic spoken.


Non Arabic speakers that learn only Qur'anic Arabic can not speak any dialect of Arabic. However if a person learns any dialect of Arabic they have no trouble reading the Qur'an. I am not an expert in Arabic as I have only been speaking it for 53 years and most of that time only the Moroccan Dialect. I have only begun learning MSA (Modern Standard Arabic) about 6 or 7 years ago. I first learned to read Qur'anic Arabic in 1963 as a Christian Evangelist trying to convert Muslims to Christianity. I have only been Muslim since 2005. Most of my life has been as a person seeking to show the Qur'an and Islam are wrong. But I now know I was in error all those years.


Show me any source that says the Qur'an came down on a "Preserved Tablet".

It came as a recitation and that is what Qu'ran means ---recitation. the actual Qur'an is the recitation. The Written Qur'an is secondary and is a man made tool.

The preservation of the Qur'an means that there will always be people that know the actual recitation as it was revealed.

No person has ever spoke Qur'anic Arabic as a language, Not even Muhammad(saws) it exists no place except in the Qur'an and no one has ever been able to make an original sentence in Qur'anic Arabic.
this is the main source that says the Qur'an came down on a "Preserved Tablet".
1 - (it is a glorious Quran, in a preserved tablet) (al-brog- 21-22)
Shaykh al-Islam Allah's mercy Ecstasize my chest that is written in the lawh I do not mind that, but God when lowered to Muhammad peace be upon him and his family and him speak it and by His to Jibril, the words of the Salaf and the Sunnis in the Koran)
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Old 05-18-2016, 11:14 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Arabic has evolved consideragly. Modern Arabic has very little resemblance to Qur'anic Arabic. but Qur'anic Arabic has remained unchanged. On the Arabian peninsula alone there are at least 7 different variations of Arabic spoken.


Non Arabic speakers that learn only Qur'anic Arabic can not speak any dialect of Arabic. However if a person learns any dialect of Arabic they have no trouble reading the Qur'an. I am not an expert in Arabic as I have only been speaking it for 53 years and most of that time only the Moroccan Dialect. I have only begun learning MSA (Modern Standard Arabic) about 6 or 7 years ago. I first learned to read Qur'anic Arabic in 1963 as a Christian Evangelist trying to convert Muslims to Christianity. I have only been Muslim since 2005. Most of my life has been as a person seeking to show the Qur'an and Islam are wrong. But I now know I was in error all those years.


Show me any source that says the Qur'an came down on a "Preserved Tablet".

It came as a recitation and that is what Qu'ran means ---recitation. the actual Qur'an is the recitation. The Written Qur'an is secondary and is a man made tool.

The preservation of the Qur'an means that there will always be people that know the actual recitation as it was revealed.

No person has ever spoke Qur'anic Arabic as a language, Not even Muhammad(saws) it exists no place except in the Qur'an and no one has ever been able to make an original sentence in Qur'anic Arabic.
You do not know the difference between Arab dialects and between classical Arabic
Arabic dialects emerged after the occupation of Muslims to other countries, including Morocco, because the Moroccan dialect is close to the Tamazight and Berber language Ka think
Also you do not know the difference between the seven readings since the advent of Islam, there were seven of the Koran readings
Also you do not know the difference between the seven readings since the advent of Islam, there were seven of the Koran readings
(7) Host: The dimensions of this issue, he had actually maintain quarrel and disagree in the Koran?

Answer: Yes, I say: First, maintain they already disagree and quarrel in the Koran, even in the era of Muhammad, I remember so two novels: The first came in (inclusive statement about the interpretation of the Koran to Tabari 1, p. 16) and also in the (Book of Virtues Quran by Ibn many c 1:00 51) "from Abu ibn Ka'b said: I was in the mosque, entered the man prayed, recited the reading denied by him, and then another man entered, and recites read is to read the owner, we entered into all of the Messenger of Allah said: O Messenger of God that this read read denied by him, and then entered the recited read is to read the owner. commanded them Messenger of Allah, Vqraa, pleased the Messenger of Allah would, he said, Dad: he fell in myself of denial, more what I had in ignorance, when he saw the Messenger of God, what Gshena, hit me in my chest, Vvdt sweating as if I look at God shuddering, and he said to me: Dad sent me [Jibril] to read the Koran on a character, I answered him that the Hun on my nation, replied in the second to read the Koran on a character, I answered him that the Hun on my nation, everyone on in the third: to read it on the seven characters, he said to them the prophet: 'may rightly and well done', said my father also 'Farfddt sweat' Tsbpt sweat]. [continue Tabari said: Ismail ibn Abi Khalid .. my father said that the Prophet said to me: Oaivk God of doubt and disbelief. "

The difference between the seven letters and seven readings
Scientists agree that it is wrong to say that the seven planes are the seven readings. Abu Shama says in his book "The brief to the science related to the Qur'an Aziz Leader": people who thought that the seven readings are now is that in the modern Oridt, an otherwise consensus of the scholars as a whole, but that some people think ignorance.
Mackie says: Who thought that reading these readers Knaf and Asim seven characters that are in the modern, it was a great mistake Glta.
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Old 05-19-2016, 07:30 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
You do not know the difference between Arab dialects and between classical Arabic
Arabic dialects emerged after the occupation of Muslims to other countries, including Morocco, because the Moroccan dialect is close to the Tamazight and Berber language Ka think
Also you do not know the difference between the seven readings since the advent of Islam, there were seven of the Koran readings
Also you do not know the difference between the seven readings since the advent of Islam, there were seven of the Koran readings
(7) Host: The dimensions of this issue, he had actually maintain quarrel and disagree in the Koran?

Answer: Yes, I say: First, maintain they already disagree and quarrel in the Koran, even in the era of Muhammad, I remember so two novels: The first came in (inclusive statement about the interpretation of the Koran to Tabari 1, p. 16) and also in the (Book of Virtues Quran by Ibn many c 1:00 51) "from Abu ibn Ka'b said: I was in the mosque, entered the man prayed, recited the reading denied by him, and then another man entered, and recites read is to read the owner, we entered into all of the Messenger of Allah said: O Messenger of God that this read read denied by him, and then entered the recited read is to read the owner. commanded them Messenger of Allah, Vqraa, pleased the Messenger of Allah would, he said, Dad: he fell in myself of denial, more what I had in ignorance, when he saw the Messenger of God, what Gshena, hit me in my chest, Vvdt sweating as if I look at God shuddering, and he said to me: Dad sent me [Jibril] to read the Koran on a character, I answered him that the Hun on my nation, replied in the second to read the Koran on a character, I answered him that the Hun on my nation, everyone on in the third: to read it on the seven characters, he said to them the prophet: 'may rightly and well done', said my father also 'Farfddt sweat' Tsbpt sweat]. [continue Tabari said: Ismail ibn Abi Khalid .. my father said that the Prophet said to me: Oaivk God of doubt and disbelief. "

The difference between the seven letters and seven readings
Scientists agree that it is wrong to say that the seven planes are the seven readings. Abu Shama says in his book "The brief to the science related to the Qur'an Aziz Leader": people who thought that the seven readings are now is that in the modern Oridt, an otherwise consensus of the scholars as a whole, but that some people think ignorance.
Mackie says: Who thought that reading these readers Knaf and Asim seven characters that are in the modern, it was a great mistake Glta.
It is an error to think of Qur'anic Arabic as being Classical Arabic. Although classical Arabic had it's beginning before Qur'anic Arabic with the Nabataean Alphabet it was a written language long before Qur'anic Arabic and before there was an Arabic alphabet. Qur'anic Arabic is a very distinct dialect unlike any other Arabic dialect. Non-Muslims do often call Classical Arabic Qur'anic and that does cause confusion.
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Old 05-19-2016, 08:12 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
this is the main source that says the Qur'an came down on a "Preserved Tablet".
1 - (it is a glorious Quran, in a preserved tablet) (al-brog- 21-22)
Shaykh al-Islam Allah's mercy Ecstasize my chest that is written in the lawh I do not mind that, but God when lowered to Muhammad peace be upon him and his family and him speak it and by His to Jibril, the words of the Salaf and the Sunnis in the Koran)
we do believe the Qur'an is "preserved on a Tablet"but no physical was given to Muhammad(saws) the words on it were recited to Muhammad(saws) As to if the "Preserved Tablet" is actually physical is a matter of debate.

Looking at the pertinent ayyats


Al-Buruj (The Big Stars) - 85:19
بَلِ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا فِي تَكْذِيبٍ (85:19)

Bali allatheena kafaroo fee taktheebin

And yet, they who are bent on denying the truth persist in giving it the lie: - 85:19 (Asad)

And yet the Unbelievers (persist) in rejecting (the Truth)! - 85:19 (Y. Ali)

Nay, but those who disbelieve live in denial - 85:19 (Picktall)




وَاللَّهُ مِن وَرَائِهِم مُّحِيطٌ (85:20)

WaAllahu min waraihim muheetun

but all the while God encompasses them [with His knowledge and might] without their being aware of it. [10] - 85:20 (Asad)

But Allah doth encompass them from behind! - 85:20 (Y. Ali)

And Allah, all unseen, surroundeth them. - 85:20 (Picktall)



بَلْ هُوَ قُرْآنٌ مَّجِيدٌ (85:21)

Bal huwa quranun majeedun

Nay, but this [divine writ which they reject] is a discourse sublime, - 85:21 (Asad)

Nay, this is a Glorious Qur'an, - 85:21 (Y. Ali)

Nay, but it is a glorious Qur'an - 85:21 (Picktall)




فِي لَوْحٍ مَّحْفُوظٍ (85:22)

Fee lawhin mahfoothin

upon an imperishable tablet [inscribed - 85:22 (Asad)

(Inscribed) in a Tablet Preserved! - 85:22 (Y. Ali)

On a guarded tablet. - 85:22 (Picktall)

this is a very Early Surah revealed long before the Qur'an was completly revealed, so it can ot be speaking of a physical tablet that was handed to Muhammad(saws)


The Surah was for the benefit of the disbelievers in Mecca who were trying to destroy Islam to let them know that no matter what they do they can not erase the Qur'an, it will always exist.

The word lawhin لَوْحٍ directly translated means slab, tablet or sheet. The translations are correct, but we can not ascertain if this is meant physical or metaphorical. We do know that Muhammad(saws) never showed anyone a tablet.
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Old 05-19-2016, 08:43 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,944 times
Reputation: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Arabic has evolved consideragly. Modern Arabic has very little resemblance to Qur'anic Arabic. but Qur'anic Arabic has remained unchanged. On the Arabian peninsula alone there are at least 7 different variations of Arabic spoken.


Non Arabic speakers that learn only Qur'anic Arabic can not speak any dialect of Arabic. However if a person learns any dialect of Arabic they have no trouble reading the Qur'an. I am not an expert in Arabic as I have only been speaking it for 53 years and most of that time only the Moroccan Dialect. I have only begun learning MSA (Modern Standard Arabic) about 6 or 7 years ago. I first learned to read Qur'anic Arabic in 1963 as a Christian Evangelist trying to convert Muslims to Christianity. I have only been Muslim since 2005. Most of my life has been as a person seeking to show the Qur'an and Islam are wrong. But I now know I was in error all those years.


Show me any source that says the Qur'an came down on a "Preserved Tablet".

It came as a recitation and that is what Qu'ran means ---recitation. the actual Qur'an is the recitation. The Written Qur'an is secondary and is a man made tool.

The preservation of the Qur'an means that there will always be people that know the actual recitation as it was revealed.

No person has ever spoke Qur'anic Arabic as a language, Not even Muhammad(saws) it exists no place except in the Qur'an and no one has ever been able to make an original sentence in Qur'anic Arabic.
You asked for the source and i have provided the source of the Koran
this is the main source that says the Qur'an came down on a "Preserved Tablet".
1 - (it is a glorious Quran, in a preserved tablet) (al-brog- 21-22)
2-I want to give you important information when you want to understand the Koran
It doctrinal rules
Can not diligent in textsلااجتهاد في مورد النص I also wrote in Arabic
The text is clear in his words in a preserved tablet)
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Old 05-19-2016, 08:51 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,944 times
Reputation: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
we do believe the Qur'an is "preserved on a Tablet"but no physical was given to Muhammad(saws) the words on it were recited to Muhammad(saws) As to if the "Preserved Tablet" is actually physical is a matter of debate.

Looking at the pertinent ayyats


Al-Buruj (The Big Stars) - 85:19
بَلِ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا فِي تَكْذِيبٍ (85:19)

Bali allatheena kafaroo fee taktheebin

And yet, they who are bent on denying the truth persist in giving it the lie: - 85:19 (Asad)

And yet the Unbelievers (persist) in rejecting (the Truth)! - 85:19 (Y. Ali)

Nay, but those who disbelieve live in denial - 85:19 (Picktall)




وَاللَّهُ مِن وَرَائِهِم مُّحِيطٌ (85:20)

WaAllahu min waraihim muheetun

but all the while God encompasses them [with His knowledge and might] without their being aware of it. [10] - 85:20 (Asad)

But Allah doth encompass them from behind! - 85:20 (Y. Ali)

And Allah, all unseen, surroundeth them. - 85:20 (Picktall)



بَلْ هُوَ قُرْآنٌ مَّجِيدٌ (85:21)

Bal huwa quranun majeedun

Nay, but this [divine writ which they reject] is a discourse sublime, - 85:21 (Asad)

Nay, this is a Glorious Qur'an, - 85:21 (Y. Ali)

Nay, but it is a glorious Qur'an - 85:21 (Picktall)




فِي لَوْحٍ مَّحْفُوظٍ (85:22)

Fee lawhin mahfoothin

upon an imperishable tablet [inscribed - 85:22 (Asad)

(Inscribed) in a Tablet Preserved! - 85:22 (Y. Ali)

On a guarded tablet. - 85:22 (Picktall)

this is a very Early Surah revealed long before the Qur'an was completly revealed, so it can ot be speaking of a physical tablet that was handed to Muhammad(saws)


The Surah was for the benefit of the disbelievers in Mecca who were trying to destroy Islam to let them know that no matter what they do they can not erase the Qur'an, it will always exist.

The word lawhin لَوْحٍ directly translated means slab, tablet or sheet. The translations are correct, but we can not ascertain if this is meant physical or metaphorical. We do know that Muhammad(saws) never showed anyone a tablet.
This is a big speech
When Muhammad was in Mecca had few followers not exceed percent
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Old 05-19-2016, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
Arabs do not speak Aramaic and Hebrew
It translates the Hebrew book into Arabic
Was the cousin of Mohammed translates the Hebrew book into Arabic
his name is waraka ebn noval

Today they don't unless they happen to be Jewish or Sabeeans.. In the past in Mecca and Medina many Arabs were Jewish, Christian or Sabeean.
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