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Old 04-30-2016, 01:49 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,585,898 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
lol haha
yet you spend so much time and effort in digging through God's message?
Does my digging into prove God exists?

What I am doing is understanding the minds of SOME people who believe in something that do not exists but are so psychological impacted and influenced by such an illusion that convinced them to kill non-believers.

Because the terrible evils and violence are so real and is a big threat to humanity, it is a duty of every one to understand the root causes of the terrible evils and violence.

The problem is the majority of [supposedly innocent and moderate] Muslims* are so psychologically desperate in their own beliefs that they deny the terrible evils and violence has anything to do with Islam in part [not in whole]. This denial deflect many from looking at the roots of the problem and thus facilitate SOME Muslims who are born with evil tendencies to continue their evils and violence against non-Muslims and some Muslims.
* and some blinded apologists.
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Old 04-30-2016, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,291,704 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Does my digging into prove God exists?

What I am doing is understanding the minds of SOME people who believe in something that do not exists but are so psychological impacted and influenced by such an illusion that convinced them to kill non-believers.

Because the terrible evils and violence are so real and is a big threat to humanity, it is a duty of every one to understand the root causes of the terrible evils and violence.

The problem is the majority of [supposedly innocent and moderate] Muslims* are so psychologically desperate in their own beliefs that they deny the terrible evils and violence has anything to do with Islam in part [not in whole]. This denial deflect many from looking at the roots of the problem and thus facilitate SOME Muslims who are born with evil tendencies to continue their evils and violence against non-Muslims and some Muslims.
* and some blinded apologists.
Sounds like a witch hunt.

While your fears are understandable when one looks at the news every day. It does make it difficul to realize that Muslims pose much less danger than the general population.

What you call "Violent verses serve as a deterrent for the vast majority of Muslims. While the actions of some are horrendous, they represent a very small percentage of the world's Muslims and the occurrence of violent acts is at a much lower rate than the overall violence by non-Muslims.


I do suspect that there are some people that are anti religion select demonizing Islam because they will gain support from radical Jews and Christians, who without realizing it that by demonizing Islam they are also demonizing their own belief as the Qur'an is the same message that was given to the Christians and Jews.

A good strategy for one seeking to bring end to religion. Turn it into an Us versus them issue. Yes there are differs between people of different religions, but that does not mean any major religion promotes an us vs them attitude.
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Old 04-30-2016, 07:55 PM
 
23 posts, read 16,648 times
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Us vs them is the very basis of religion in general. Jesus said in the Bible to kill all non-Christians.

"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. (Luke 19:27)

The old Testament is filled with verses urging followers to slaughter those who don't agree with their religion.

"Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed." (Exodus 22:19)

"They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman." (Chronicles 15:12-13)

"If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst" (Dt 13:7-12)

"Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel." (Dt 17:12)
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Old 04-30-2016, 11:40 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,585,898 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Sounds like a witch hunt.
I not hunting for witches but is critical of the ideology in part.

Quote:
While your fears are understandable when one looks at the news every day. It does make it difficul to realize that Muslims pose much less danger than the general population.
Your statement make no sense to the elimination and prevention of evils and violence regardless of any sources.

As I had stated many times, humanity must address, eliminate and prevent ALL evils and violence.
Why we are discussing evils and violence related to Islam and SOME Muslims who are evil prone is because this is a forum related to Islam. Other non-Islamic related evils are dealt in other forums.

Quote:
What you call "Violent verses serve as a deterrent for the vast majority of Muslims. While the actions of some are horrendous, they represent a very small percentage of the world's Muslims and the occurrence of violent acts is at a much lower rate than the overall violence by non-Muslims.
Btw, are you stating humanity should ignore evils and violence related to SOME Muslims because their comparative % is lower than the general population in the world?

I did call nor specify the phrase "violent verses."
I have always mentioned there are evil-laden-elements in the majority of the 6,236 verses of the Quran. This meant the verses are loaded with elements that related to evil and violence.

It is irrelevant to compare the number of occurrence of evil and violent acts between those committed by SOME Muslims and non-Muslims in this case. The range and quantum of evil and violent acts committed by SOME Muslims [potentially 300 million] are significant enough [28,526] to warrant humanity attention, note the following;



The above refer to incidents with fatalities. There are a wide range of and quantum of evil and violent acts committed by SOME Muslims which has not fatalities.
Thus humanity must address all these problem of evil and violence.


Quote:
I do suspect that there are some people that are anti religion select demonizing Islam because they will gain support from radical Jews and Christians, who without realizing it that by demonizing Islam they are also demonizing their own belief as the Qur'an is the same message that was given to the Christians and Jews.
It is true radical Jews and Christians will surely find fault with Islam due to various reasons, e.g. competition, chauvinism, us versus them and the likes.

But other than the above, think about it, why are there no extensive and regular demonizing and critiques of Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Jainism other than against Islam and SOME Muslims.
Of all the mainstream religions in the world, humanity attention from everywhere is focused in the evils and violence by SOME Muslims who are evil prone and thus on Islam itself.
This indicate there is something wrong within the religion of Islam-in-part.
Instead of simply blaming Islam or Muslims blindly I have raised a hypothesis that trace the root cause to the evil laden elements in the Quran.

I have asserted many times, the 20% should not take the blame [primary] because they were naturally born with evil tendencies. Humanity must nevertheless address this inherent issue as with non-Muslims.

Quote:
A good strategy for one seeking to bring end to religion. Turn it into an Us versus them issue. Yes there are differs between people of different religions, but that does not mean any major religion promotes an us vs them attitude.
It is religions [especially Abrahamic] that emphasize and exploit the inherent "us versus them" issue to the brim. The worst of it is when a religion include evil laden elements without an overriding limit to influence and inspire SOME evil prone believers to commit terrible evils and violence.
When other criticize such evils and violence, they are not turning it into a us versus them issue but are making an attempts to find the root causes for resolutions.

Whether any major religion promote and exploit the us versus them [with intensity] to enhance their false superiority can be evidenced from the contents of their religious texts.
I have provided evidences in
Us versus Them 101 for Muslims
how Islam embrace the "us versus them" impulse for their advantage and is detrimental to humanity.
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Old 05-01-2016, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,291,704 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I not hunting for witches but is critical of the ideology in part.

Your statement make no sense to the elimination and prevention of evils and violence regardless of any sources.

As I had stated many times, humanity must address, eliminate and prevent ALL evils and violence.
Why we are discussing evils and violence related to Islam and SOME Muslims who are evil prone is because this is a forum related to Islam. Other non-Islamic related evils are dealt in other forums.


Btw, are you stating humanity should ignore evils and violence related to SOME Muslims because their comparative % is lower than the general population in the world?

I did call nor specify the phrase "violent verses."
I have always mentioned there are evil-laden-elements in the majority of the 6,236 verses of the Quran. This meant the verses are loaded with elements that related to evil and violence.

It is irrelevant to compare the number of occurrence of evil and violent acts between those committed by SOME Muslims and non-Muslims in this case. The range and quantum of evil and violent acts committed by SOME Muslims [potentially 300 million] are significant enough [28,526] to warrant humanity attention, note the following;



The above refer to incidents with fatalities. There are a wide range of and quantum of evil and violent acts committed by SOME Muslims which has not fatalities.
Thus humanity must address all these problem of evil and violence.


It is true radical Jews and Christians will surely find fault with Islam due to various reasons, e.g. competition, chauvinism, us versus them and the likes.

But other than the above, think about it, why are there no extensive and regular demonizing and critiques of Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Jainism other than against Islam and SOME Muslims.
Of all the mainstream religions in the world, humanity attention from everywhere is focused in the evils and violence by SOME Muslims who are evil prone and thus on Islam itself.
This indicate there is something wrong within the religion of Islam-in-part.
Instead of simply blaming Islam or Muslims blindly I have raised a hypothesis that trace the root cause to the evil laden elements in the Quran.

I have asserted many times, the 20% should not take the blame [primary] because they were naturally born with evil tendencies. Humanity must nevertheless address this inherent issue as with non-Muslims.

It is religions [especially Abrahamic] that emphasize and exploit the inherent "us versus them" issue to the brim. The worst of it is when a religion include evil laden elements without an overriding limit to influence and inspire SOME evil prone believers to commit terrible evils and violence.
When other criticize such evils and violence, they are not turning it into a us versus them issue but are making an attempts to find the root causes for resolutions.

Whether any major religion promote and exploit the us versus them [with intensity] to enhance their false superiority can be evidenced from the contents of their religious texts.
I have provided evidences in
Us versus Them 101 for Muslims
how Islam embrace the "us versus them" impulse for their advantage and is detrimental to humanity.
As Islam is not an organized religion with a central Religious hierarchy of clergy, an Us-vs-Them attitude would have ended Islam centuries ago. Islam has grown because of outreach to others rather than a separatist attitude. Possibly the reason Islam is the fastest growing religion is because there is no us-vs- them. In order for their to be an Us vs Them there has to be an organized Us. This does not exist in Islam except in the minds of despots that misuse Islam to promote their own desires.

The subtle propaganda of the violence counter is a bit of a misleading scare tactic, that helps promote an Us vs Them attitude. but it is in the other direction it is uniting some non-Muslims in a homogeneous group of anti-Muslims through a common fear. The creation of fear, to unite people through a common enemy. Interesting way to unite Fundamental Christianity with Atheism. Seems to be working If one looks at the popularity of the sites that are now using that sticker.
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Old 05-01-2016, 11:34 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,040,005 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Your statement make no sense to the elimination and prevention of evils and violence regardless of any sources.
It makes no sense to you because it does not go along with your senses.

Quote:
As I had stated many times, humanity must address, eliminate and prevent ALL evils and violence.
The main way to address this is to address injustice wherever it may be in the world. Islam is against injustice, cruelty, evil and oppression.

3:108 These are verses of Allah that We recite to you in truth, and Allah does not intend injustice/cruelty in the worlds.

10:44 Verily, Allah does not do injustice/cruelty/evil to people but it is people who do injustice/cruelty/evil to themselves.

4:40 Verily, Allah does not do injustice/cruelty, wrong to anyone by as much as an atom's weight, and if there be a good deed, He will multiply it, and bestow out of His grace a mighty reward.


If you can't understand these verses, you can't understand good laden elements in the Qur'an.

Quote:
Why we are discussing evils and violence related to Islam and SOME Muslims who are evil prone is because this is a forum related to Islam. Other non-Islamic related evils are dealt in other forums.
What's the difference between human related evil and Islam related evil?

Quote:
Btw, are you stating humanity should ignore evils and violence related to SOME Muslims because their comparative % is lower than the general population in the world?
No. He is not.

Quote:
I did call nor specify the phrase "violent verses."
I have always mentioned there are evil-laden-elements in the majority of the 6,236 verses of the Quran. This meant the verses are loaded with elements that related to evil and violence.
You did not say six but half a dozen; so to speak.

Quote:
Thus humanity must address all these problem of evil and violence.
And who is going to do that? The bomb makers? The guns makers? The bullits makers? The land grabbers? The profit makers? The gamblers? The alcohol makers? The arms traders? The capitalists? The communists? Perhaps those who care more about their national interests than the interests of humanity?

Quote:
It is true radical Jews and Christians will surely find fault with Islam due to various reasons, e.g. competition, chauvinism, us versus them and the likes.

But other than the above, think about it, why are there no extensive and regular demonizing and critiques of Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Jainism other than against Islam and SOME Muslims.
To stop Islam spreading fast. And it is not Islam but Islamophobia or else it won't be SOME Muslims but all Muslims if it was only Islam. Would you demonize and critique Australia all Australians if only SOME of the Australians were comiting crimes and evil acts?

Quote:
Of all the mainstream religions in the world, humanity attention from everywhere is focused in the evils and violence by SOME Muslims who are evil prone and thus on Islam itself.
That is just to hide the injustice against SOME Muslims. If it had been Islam then it would be ALL Muslims and not SOME Muslims. The more attention is given to Islam the more people will try to learn about Islam. This is how Islam is going to spread even more than before. If some think that by blaming the Qur'an, Islam will stop spreading, they better think again; the Qur'an, and Islam, is not going to be stopped. It is here to stay.

Quote:
This indicate there is something wrong within the religion of Islam-in-part.
Instead of simply blaming Islam or Muslims blindly I have raised a hypothesis that trace the root cause to the evil laden elements in the Quran.-
And such notion had been rejected in this forum. Your imagined "evil laden elements" are in fact "justice laden elements". These are justice laden elements to stop evil being initiated in the first place.

Quote:
I have asserted many times, the 20% should not take the blame [primary] because they were naturally born with evil tendencies. Humanity must nevertheless address this inherent issue as with non-Muslims.
Your "humanity" will never address the inherent potential to do evil as long a it does not address injustice but keep making profits from making bombs to kill human beings and other root causes for evil.

Quote:
It is religions [especially Abrahamic] that emphasize and exploit the inherent "us versus them" issue to the brim. The worst of it is when a religion include evil laden elements without an overriding limit to influence and inspire SOME evil prone believers to commit terrible evils and violence.
Nonsense!
I do not comit terrible evil and violence because Allah has set limits for me in the Qur'an as to what I can and can't do within such limits under various given circumstances. I am keeping my action within those limits.

Quote:
When other criticize such evils and violence, they are not turning it into a us versus them issue but are making an attempts to find the root causes for resolutions.
Root causes for evil are not in the verses but outside the verses.

Quote:
Whether any major religion promote and exploit the us versus them [with intensity] to enhance their false superiority can be evidenced from the contents of their religious texts.
I have provided evidences in
Us versus Them 101 for Muslims
how Islam embrace the "us versus them" impulse for their advantage and is detrimental to humanity.
And I have rejected the notion. Misunderstanding the text is not "evidence" but ignorance about the verses.
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Old 05-01-2016, 11:22 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,585,898 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
As Islam is not an organized religion with a central Religious hierarchy of clergy, an Us-vs-Them attitude would have ended Islam centuries ago. Islam has grown because of outreach to others rather than a separatist attitude. Possibly the reason Islam is the fastest growing religion is because there is no us-vs- them. In order for their to be an Us vs Them there has to be an organized Us. This does not exist in Islam except in the minds of despots that misuse Islam to promote their own desires.

The subtle propaganda of the violence counter is a bit of a misleading scare tactic, that helps promote an Us vs Them attitude. but it is in the other direction it is uniting some non-Muslims in a homogeneous group of anti-Muslims through a common fear. The creation of fear, to unite people through a common enemy. Interesting way to unite Fundamental Christianity with Atheism. Seems to be working If one looks at the popularity of the sites that are now using that sticker.
Your points above are blatant denial and stated without much thoughts.

You as an individual may try to be as independent as possible which is against the Quran in one way.
Note here is Allah exhorting all Muslims to be together;
3:103 And hold fast, all of you together, to the cable of Allah, and do not separate. And remember Allah's favour unto you: How ye were enemies and He made friendship between your hearts so that ye became as brothers by His grace; and (how) ye were upon the brink of an abyss of fire, and He did save you from it. Thus Allah maketh clear His revelations unto you, that haply ye may be guided,
There are many other verses where Allah exhort Muslims to stick together.

The above and other verses with "us versus them" elements that generate an "us versus them" attitude within Muslims.

This is why when there is an issue in one corner of the world with Muslims, it infect Muslims all over the world from various countries, groups, governments, sects, etc. to rage and rampage.

No matter how you denial, the existence of an "us versus them" is present within all Muslims and this evidence by their collective response by all and various large groups of Sunni, Shia, etc.
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Old 05-01-2016, 11:55 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,585,898 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
The main way to address this is to address injustice wherever it may be in the world. Islam is against injustice, cruelty, evil and oppression.

3:108 These are verses of Allah that We recite to you in truth, and Allah does not intend injustice/cruelty in the worlds.

10:44 Verily, Allah does not do injustice/cruelty/evil to people but it is people who do injustice/cruelty/evil to themselves.

4:40 Verily, Allah does not do injustice/cruelty, wrong to anyone by as much as an atom's weight, and if there be a good deed, He will multiply it, and bestow out of His grace a mighty reward.


If you can't understand these verses, you can't understand good laden elements in the Qur'an.
The verses you quoted are very relative to Islam itself. What is justice to Islam is not always justice from the human and human rights point of view. What is justice to Islam is bias against humanity in general?
Torturing non-believers in Hell [eternal burning, all sorts of cruelty] is justice to Islam but this cannot be justice nor moral from the human point of view.
There is no justice from Islam as long as Islam deemed non-believers must be punished on Earth and in Hell.
Quote:
What's the difference between human related evil and Islam related evil?
Generally there is no difference.
But a good problem solver [as a default standard] will differentiate different types of evils to ensure they are resolved efficiently.

Quote:
And who is going to do that? The bomb makers? The guns makers? The bullets makers? The land grabbers? The profit makers? The gamblers? The alcohol makers? The arms traders? The capitalists? The communists? Perhaps those who care more about their national interests than the interests of humanity?
Humans must strive to resolve all evils collectively and objectively.

This is the same with the problem of global warming where the problem must be resolved collectively with full co-operation from all countries and all people. Note how all countries in the World are trying to get together to resolve the problem of global warming. It was not easy from the start but they are making headways.

Quote:
To stop Islam spreading fast. And it is not Islam but Islamophobia or else it won't be SOME Muslims but all Muslims if it was only Islam. Would you demonize and critique Australia all Australians if only SOME of the Australians were commiting crimes and evil acts?
Bad example. Australia is not an ideology based on illusions and very sensitive/desperate psychology.
Islam [in part] is an ideology that contain malignant elements and it is based on an illusory God that is effective to resolve some desperate psychology of the individual [the existential crisis].
The point is there are many alternative ideologies that can resolve the existential crisis and they do not contain highly malignant elements in part that inspired their believers to commit terrible evils and violence.

Quote:
That is just to hide the injustice against SOME Muslims. If it had been Islam then it would be ALL Muslims and not SOME Muslims. The more attention is given to Islam the more people will try to learn about Islam. This is how Islam is going to spread even more than before. If some think that by blaming the Qur'an, Islam will stop spreading, they better think again; the Qur'an, and Islam, is not going to be stopped. It is here to stay.
Different people respond differently to an ideology.
80% of Muslims are born with naturally good tendencies thus they are immune to the evil laden elements in the Quran. However 20% of Muslims are born with active evil tendencies and they are influenced by the evil elements in the Quran [sanctioned by Allah] to commit evils and violence.

Islam will spread but more and more humanity will continue to evolve with higher moral standards to realize those evil elements in the Quran will not meet their normal standard and they will some day do something about it.

Quote:
And such notion had been rejected in this forum. Your imagined "evil laden elements" are in fact "justice laden elements". These are justice laden elements to stop evil being initiated in the first place.
We have not discussed this issue in detail.
However it is literally a fact they are evil laden elements then they are evil-laden element objectively.

Quote:
Your "humanity" will never address the inherent potential to do evil as long a it does not address injustice but keep making profits from making bombs to kill human beings and other root causes for evil.
Your problem is you failed to understand what is "humanity."
When you speak of humanity, you and the Quran are always slanting to some narrow minded views like those who make profits from bombs.
Do you understand what is a generic human that represent humanity and basic human rights?

Quote:
Nonsense!
I do not commit terrible evil and violence because Allah has set limits for me in the Qur'an as to what I can and can't do within such limits under various given circumstances. I am keeping my action within those limits.
You are setting your own limits in line with the generic humanity not because of the Quran specifically.

Quote:
Root causes for evil are not in the verses but outside the verses.
If a movie [or types of violent laden movies] caused those who are exposed to the movie to commit evils and violence, then that movies is the root cause.
The other root cause is the natural tendencies of evil within those who are inspired by the evil elements in that movie to commit evil.
The same principle applies to Islam-in-part [not whole].

Quote:
And I have rejected the notion. Misunderstanding the text is not "evidence" but ignorance about the verses.
Note the DUCK-RABBIT two truth principles that unfortunately exist in the Quran.
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