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Old 07-28-2016, 11:54 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 666,629 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
That is deliberately misrepresenting what is the ethical rule in the Qur'an.

The ethical rule in the Qur'an is, do not kill anyone unless anyone is going to kill you. Otherwise, I would be a sitting duck for a kafir about to kill me.

In other words, if one must die then it would be rather the one who is trying to kill me than I. It is survival at stake here. Saving my life is of utmost priority in this ethical rule. Saving the other life is inbuilt in this ethical rule.
Quote:
If the other inclines to peace I will incline to peace as an ethical rule in the Qur'an. There is no rule in the Qur'an that says kill them even if they incline to peace. Thus, in a peace situation, Thou Shall Not Kill is Moral Maxim in the Qur'an too
.
This verse cancel that verse
Verse of Surah Muhammad cancel any peace
The requirement
If the strength of the Muslims Fighting of their duties
This is the verse along with the Islamic interpretation
I hope to provide proper Koran
It does not lie in the Koran
Be not slack so as to cry for peace and you also incline and God is with you and will not Iturkm your business surtat mohamed 35

Scientists in its ruling disagreed, and was told: It copier says: If they incline to peace, incline, because God Almighty prevent the tendency to conciliation if it is not the Muslims need to conciliation. It was: abrogated, saying the Almighty: If they incline to peace, incline, it was: is the court. The verses Nzlta in double overtime of different case. And it was said that saying: If they incline to peace, incline, ad hoc in folk Boaaanhm, general and other. There may be a truce infidels only when necessary, and so if we are unable to resist the weakness of Muslims. This meaning has been updated.
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Old 07-28-2016, 12:58 PM
 
3,168 posts, read 1,046,924 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
That is deliberately misrepresenting what is the ethical rule in the Qur'an.

The ethical rule in the Qur'an is, do not kill anyone unless anyone is going to kill you. Otherwise, I would be a sitting duck for a kafir about to kill me.

In other words, if one must die then it would be rather the one who is trying to kill me than I. It is survival at stake here. Saving my life is of utmost priority in this ethical rule. Saving the other life is inbuilt in this ethical rule. If the other inclines to peace I will incline to peace as an ethical rule in the Qur'an. There is no rule in the Qur'an that says kill them even if they incline to peace. Thus, in a peace situation, Thou Shall Not Kill is Moral Maxim in the Qur'an too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Hogwash. I have posted the verses over and over that OK killing non-Muslims who were NOT killing Muslims.
No verse of the Qur'an says that it's OK to kill non-Muslims who were not killing Muslims. Hadith books are not the Qur'an.
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Old 07-28-2016, 01:04 PM
 
3,168 posts, read 1,046,924 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
That is deliberately misrepresenting what is the ethical rule in the Qur'an.

The ethical rule in the Qur'an is, do not kill anyone unless anyone is going to kill you. Otherwise, I would be a sitting duck for a kafir about to kill me.

In other words, if one must die then it would be rather the one who is trying to kill me than I. It is survival at stake here. Saving my life is of utmost priority in this ethical rule. Saving the other life is inbuilt in this ethical rule. If the other inclines to peace I will incline to peace as an ethical rule in the Qur'an. There is no rule in the Qur'an that says kill them even if they incline to peace. Thus, in a peace situation, Thou Shall Not Kill is Moral Maxim in the Qur'an too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Killings ordered by Muhammed........

No. Name Date Reason(s) for Ordering or Supporting Killing Result Notable Primary Sources
The Qur'an is the Only Primary Source. The rest is the primary source only for the dummies or robots.
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Old 07-28-2016, 03:43 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 755,890 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
No verse of the Qur'an says that it's OK to kill non-Muslims who were not killing Muslims. Hadith books are not the Qur'an.
1. Yes, verses say it's OK to kill non-Muslims...in fact it commands it unless the non-Muslim converts.

2. The hadiths are a very important part of Islam no matter what you say.

3. Even worse than the slaughtering of non-Muslims is allah doing horrible torture for all eternity to billions of souls of disbelievers/unbelievers.
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Old 07-28-2016, 04:58 PM
 
3,168 posts, read 1,046,924 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
1. Yes, verses say it's OK to kill non-Muslims...in fact it commands it unless the non-Muslim converts.
Wrong! 2:256 rejects your claim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
2. The hadiths are a very important part of Islam no matter what you say.
All ahadith after the Qur'an are effectively rejected by the Qur'an and, therefore, are outside Islam.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
3. Even worse than the slaughtering of non-Muslims is allah doing horrible torture for all eternity to billions of souls of disbelievers/unbelievers.
I am sure it means nothing to you. You do not have to worry about that; not yet.
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Old 07-28-2016, 07:59 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 755,890 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Wrong! 2:256 rejects your claim.

All ahadith after the Qur'an are effectively rejected by the Qur'an and, therefore, are outside Islam.

I am sure it means nothing to you. You do not have to worry about that; not yet.
2:256 was abrogated by:

And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers. 3:85

O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them.... (9:73)

O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you.... (9:123)

Say unto those of the wondering Arabs who were left behind: Ye will be called against a folk of mighty prowess to fight them until they surrender.... (48:16)[7]

And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. 9:5

[Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, "I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip." 8:12

So, when you meet (in fight Jihad in Allah's Cause), those who disbelieve smite at their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them as captives). Thereafter (is the time) either for generosity (i.e. free them without ransom), or ransom (according to what benefits Islam), until the war lays down its burden. Thus [you are ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad against the disbelievers till they embrace Islam (i.e. are saved from the punishment in the Hell-fire) or at least come under your protection], but if it had been Allah's Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (He lets you fight), in order to test you, some with others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost, 47:4

"I am sure it means nothing to you. You do not have to worry about that; not yet."

Why is that? Perhaps because sadist allah, in your mind, is going to do horrible torture to me? And why would sadist allah do that? Isn't threats of horrible eternal torture a compulsion for many?

"All ahadith after the Qur'an are effectively rejected by the Qur'an and, therefore, are outside Islam."

None of the other Muslims I have spoken with (several thousand) say this. So what one Muslim says in the face of thousands is meaningless.
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Old 07-28-2016, 11:34 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 666,629 times
Reputation: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
2:256 was abrogated by:

And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers. 3:85

O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them.... (9:73)

O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you.... (9:123)

Say unto those of the wondering Arabs who were left behind: Ye will be called against a folk of mighty prowess to fight them until they surrender.... (48:16)[7]

And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. 9:5

[Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, "I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip." 8:12

So, when you meet (in fight Jihad in Allah's Cause), those who disbelieve smite at their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them as captives). Thereafter (is the time) either for generosity (i.e. free them without ransom), or ransom (according to what benefits Islam), until the war lays down its burden. Thus [you are ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad against the disbelievers till they embrace Islam (i.e. are saved from the punishment in the Hell-fire) or at least come under your protection], but if it had been Allah's Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (He lets you fight), in order to test you, some with others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost, 47:4

"I am sure it means nothing to you. You do not have to worry about that; not yet."

Why is that? Perhaps because sadist allah, in your mind, is going to do horrible torture to me? And why would sadist allah do that? Isn't threats of horrible eternal torture a compulsion for many?

"All ahadith after the Qur'an are effectively rejected by the Qur'an and, therefore, are outside Islam."

None of the other Muslims I have spoken with (several thousand) say this. So what one Muslim says in the face of thousands is meaningless.
He is trying to block out sunlight Pegrbalh
Verses is clear from the Koran
The chatter by Muslims
This is their problem
there is no smoke is not without fire
Chatter movable from a Muslim to a Muslim that were written
It should be noted
It must distinguish between the chatter and the reasons come down
Because they separate
Each state is a reason when descent
for example
You can not understand the meaning of Alivk
It is a betrayal to Aisha Mohammed
The survival of the night in the desert with Safwan
But when extrapolation wrote down the reasons you understand verse
So our friend Khalifa does not understand the Koran well
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Old 07-30-2016, 03:22 PM
 
3,168 posts, read 1,046,924 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
1. Yes, verses say it's OK to kill non-Muslims...in fact it commands it unless the non-Muslim converts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Wrong! 2:256 rejects your claim.
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
2:256 was abrogated by:

So, when you meet (in fight Jihad in Allah's Cause), those who disbelieve smite at their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them as captives). Thereafter (is the time) either for generosity (i.e. free them without ransom), or ransom (according to what benefits Islam), until the war lays down its burden. Thus [you are ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad against the disbelievers till they embrace Islam (i.e. are saved from the punishment in the Hell-fire) or at least come under your protection], but if it had been Allah's Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (He lets you fight), in order to test you, some with others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost, 47:4
[47.4] So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish.

47:4 does not say itís OK to kill non-Muslims or kill them unless they convert. This verse is telling the believers (in Madina at the time) that when the polytheists (unbelievers of Mecca) wage war on them then fight back and defeat them, and that some will be captured by you until they stop waging war against you (war lays down its burden). Those captured can then be freed. They could not have been captured and freed if the verse was telling believers to kill them all.

2:256 was never abrogated. It still stands as valid today as when it was revealed.
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Old 07-30-2016, 03:24 PM
 
3,168 posts, read 1,046,924 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
1. Yes, verses say it's OK to kill non-Muslims...in fact it commands it unless the non-Muslim converts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Wrong! 2:256 rejects your claim.
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
2:256 was abrogated by:
[Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, "I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip." 8:12
8:12 does not say itís OK to kill non-Muslims or kill them unless they convert. This verse is reminding the believers in Madina about the event at Badr where 1000 polytheists had just lost the battle to just 313 believers.

2:256 was never abrogated. It still stands as valid today as when it was revealed.
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Old 07-30-2016, 03:30 PM
 
3,168 posts, read 1,046,924 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
1. Yes, verses say it's OK to kill non-Muslims...in fact it commands it unless the non-Muslim converts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Wrong! 2:256 rejects your claim.
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
2:256 was abrogated by:
And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. 9:5
9:5 does not say itís OK to kill non-Muslims or kill them unless they convert. It is not about all non-Muslims but is only about polytheists (idol worshipers of Mecca) who had attacked Muslims three times already. They now have to repent for their actions.

2:256 was never abrogated. It still stands as valid today as when it was revealed.
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