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Old 07-31-2016, 07:06 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 755,890 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Meccans had attacked Muslims at Badr, Uhad and at the Trench. Many Muslims were killed at Uhad. The Qur'an does not give every detail but it has been recorded in history. Here is a brief glimpse from the Qur'an about what had happened to Muslims when Meccans had attacked them in Madina (at Trench):

[33.9] O you who believe! call to mind the favor of Allah to you when there came down upon you hosts, so We sent against them a strong wind and hosts, that you saw not, and Allah is Seeing what you do.

[33.10] When they came upon you from above you and from below you, and when the eyes turned dull, and the hearts rose up to the throats, and you began to think diverse thoughts of Allah.

[33.11] There the believers were tried and they were shaken with severe shaking.


This had happened before 9:5 was revealed.
You have said over and over that it is the Quran that matters.

Post the verses from the Quran that tell of these murders of Muslims by Meccans.
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Old 07-31-2016, 11:06 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 666,629 times
Reputation: 204
Blind faith
It makes the wrong right and the right to void
This is what we're seeing here
Verses are clear words of the Koran
Murder and Fattal
Jihad and Booty
If these verses are not valid at this time
So why do not they reveal cancellation of these words found, displaying verses from the rest of human terrorist ideology

Mohammed migration to Madinah was after an agreement between the tribe of Aws and Khazraj and between Muhammad
It is a military agreement
War did not occur when Muhammad was in Mecca
Why did not you get the war

The answer is clear

Arabs did not declare fighting
Assault boil Muhammad did not get
Mohammed because he belonged to the Quraish
But after its agreement with the Aws and Khazraj and the migration of Muhammad
War has become
So Muhammad was the aggressor

His family in Mecca
Mohammed has been a traitor, according to new laws

If the states, especially in fighting one battle
Announced before the people
These verses are old and it's not valid at this time
Are you able to cancel those verses from the Koran
It states hatred
The killing and fighting
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Old 07-31-2016, 11:39 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,593,506 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
When I rely on the Principles from the Qur'an, as in 60:8-9, you say, "has no teeth". Do they have to bite you before you know whether they have teeth or not?

"No teeth" is a pathetic argument.

The Qur'an is clear, be kind to those who have not waged war on you because of your deen and have not expelled you from your homes. What else you want from the Qur'an?
This is a straw man.
You did not answer my point at all.

As for 60:8-9 I have presented by solid arguments in this thread and other posts.

In any case, 60:8-9 also 'do not has any teeth' because it is conditional where Muslims can interpret any situation as non-Muslims are at war with them based on the tons of relevant tsunami of verses from the Quran.

There are so many situations where non-Muslims are regarded as waging war against Muslims besides the Palestinian issues, the occupation of Muslims' land [Afghanistan, etc,] there are the waging of ideological wars, the resistant to Muslims demand for Sharia Laws, restriction on other Islamic practices, etc. In such cases, 60:8-9 is not applicable and has no teeth on the situation.

In contrast, if the Quran imposed absolute moral maxims on killing, justice, kindness, etc. as overriding then there would be no basis for Islam-inspired evils and violence. Then if any Muslim commit evils and violence it is because of their own inherent evil nature and not because of Islam itself.

60:8-9 is toothless as far as absolute moral is concern.
You may be aware of it, but the reality it has no teeth against the natural evil prone Muslims who are right in ignoring it and strive for the cause of Allah in accordance to other verses in the Quran which end up with terrible evils and violence.

Note you are arguing merely based on theory while my arguments are based on reasons and real evidences, i.e. the 28,923 [ was 28,907 yesterday] incidents of evil incidents that involve deaths to non-Muslims and other Muslims.



I am surprised you are so blinded to the above statistics that is rising almost every day and still deny Islam [in part, not whole] has nothing to do with such terrible evils.
Note the above is merely one type of evil, there is whole range of evils committed by those 'SOME' evil prone Muslims who are directly influenced by the evil laden elements in the Quran [& Ahadith].
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Old 08-01-2016, 02:10 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,593,506 times
Reputation: 461
18:80. And as for the lad, his parents were believers and We feared lest he [an infidel] should oppress them by rebellion and disbelief.
In the above the parent were not waging war on the lad but Khidar slew him merely based on fears of the lad as disbelievers who may kill his believer parents.

This is one example where evil prone Muslims will kill disbelievers merely based on their subjective feelings and fears upon the slightest perceived provocations.
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Old 08-01-2016, 02:22 AM
 
3,168 posts, read 1,046,924 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
This is a straw man.
You did not answer my point at all.

As for 60:8-9 I have presented by solid arguments in this thread and other posts.

In any case, 60:8-9 also 'do not has any teeth' because it is conditional where Muslims can interpret any situation as non-Muslims are at war with them based on the tons of relevant tsunami of verses from the Quran.
60:8-9 are quite clear. Be kind to them as they have not waged war on you, have not expelled you from your homes and have not helped anyone else in war against you and in your expulsion.

You are making baseless excuses in disregarding these verses of the Qur'an. What about "if they incline to peace, you incline to peace"? No teeth? You need to put together all such verses to understand 60:8-9 instead of sticking to your ignorance about the Qur'an message.
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Old 08-01-2016, 01:14 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 755,890 times
Reputation: 435
Post the verses from the Quran that tell of these murders of Muslims by Meccans.
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Old 08-01-2016, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
2,202 posts, read 1,431,363 times
Reputation: 1363
The infidels must have taghwaed!! albeit a cognizant of Allah of truth! Quran ( Koran) 9.5 with respect to idolaters find them, take them captive, besiege them and lie in wait for then in every ambush THEN if they reject THEIR faith ( repent) Then keep up prayer and set them free. ( Paraphrased or condensed)

Note infidels equate to pagans. That's the real oxymoron where Allah is the Moon god NOT the God
of Abraham Isaac and Jacob!! Watch out as man can lead you to screaming for a drop of water on your heathen tongue in a hot place.
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Old 08-01-2016, 03:32 PM
 
3,168 posts, read 1,046,924 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Post the verses from the Quran that tell of these murders of Muslims by Meccans.
If you insist, go and read these verses for yourself:

For first war on believer at Badr:

[3.121], [3.122], [3.123]

For the imminent attack on Muslims in Madina where these verses were revealed:

[3.172], [3.173]

For the second war at Uhad in which many Muslims were killed:

[3.166], [3.167], [3.168], [3.169]

For the third attack on Muslims in Madina which completely failed:

[33.9], [33.10], [33.11]

And the verse in context of 9:5 you had not posted:

[9.13]

So, my question to you now:

According to the Qur'an, which side had attacked the other side first, the Kuffar (unbelievers of Mecca) or the Muslims?
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Old 08-01-2016, 03:51 PM
 
3,168 posts, read 1,046,924 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by openmike View Post
Note infidels equate to pagans. That's the real oxymoron where Allah is the Moon god NOT the God
of Abraham Isaac and Jacob!!
Talking of the real oxymoron, God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is carried on a stick in front of all the worshipers but Muslims do not carry around moon on a stick in front of the worshipers in a mosque.
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Old 08-01-2016, 10:15 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,593,506 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
If you insist, go and read these verses for yourself:

For first war on believer at Badr:

[3.121], [3.122], [3.123]

For the imminent attack on Muslims in Madina where these verses were revealed:

[3.172], [3.173]

For the second war at Uhad in which many Muslims were killed:

[3.166], [3.167], [3.168], [3.169]

For the third attack on Muslims in Madina which completely failed:

[33.9], [33.10], [33.11]

And the verse in context of 9:5 you had not posted:

[9.13]

So, my question to you now:

According to the Qur'an, which side had attacked the other side first, the Kuffar (unbelievers of Mecca) or the Muslims?
Where are the actual evidence to support your presumed and implied claim, the Meccans attacked the Muslims first?

Don't just throw in verses numbers all over. Explain the verses to support your point from the Quran itself?
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