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Old 05-06-2016, 03:46 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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I am doing some researching for my project i.e.
Verses with where infidels or non-Muslims are mentioned in a positive light.
60:8 [Shakir] Allah does not forbid you [Muslims] (from) respecting those [infidels]
-who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and
-[who] have not driven you forth from your homes,
that you show them kindness and deal with them [infidels] justly;
surely Allah loves the doers of justice.
Khalif [& many Muslims] often used 60:8 to justify the Quran has elements of kindness and justice extended to infidels or non-Muslims.
However I dispute this one verse do not carry much weight by itself when there are 3,400 verses differentiating, segregating the "infidels" i.e. non-Muslims and condemning them with the most derogatory terms.

My question is are there any other verses where the infidels or non-Muslims are mentioned in positive light or terms.

So far I noted the following;
73:10 Listen to what they [kafirs] say with patience, and leave them with dignity.

29:46 Do not dispute with the followers of the Book [the Jews] except in the best way and unless it is they who have dealt wrongfully with you. Say: We believe in what has been sent down to us and has been sent down to you. Our Allah and your god are one, and to Him are we submitted.

109:2-6 I do not worship what you worship, and you do not worship what I worship. I will never worship what you worship, and you will never worship what I worship. You to your religion, me to my religion.

256. There is no compulsion [on infidels] in religion [alddeeni]. The right direction [straight path] is henceforth distinct from error. And he [Muslim] who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm hand hold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower. [
The problem is [except 29:46] the above verses are followed condemnation of the infidel in some following verses within the same chapter or in another chapter. e.g.
73:11 Let me deal with the wealthy and those who deny the truth [kafirs]. Bear with them for a while, because We have strong shackles and a raging Fire and food that chokes and a painful punishment.
Are there any others verses [besides the above] in the Quran where the infidels or non-Muslims identified and specifically mentioned in a positive light or terms?
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Old 05-07-2016, 01:23 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Here is one attempt to justify Islamic verses in good light.

Quote:
Two Hundred Verses about Compassionate Living in the Quran.

As only the Islamophobes, who hate Islam or those Muslims, who want to enforce Shariah Law, of their imagination, by hook or crook, make headlines, the compassionate teachings of the Holy Quran are lost to the ordinary, non-Muslim observer.

The Holy Quran talks about One God and one human family.

Here, I want to stress the Quranic message of compassion, love and kindness by cataloging, as many verses, as I can, realizing that it can never be an exhaustive list as other readers will continue to find new ideas of mercy and grace in other verses of the Holy Quran.

https://themuslimtimes.info/2013/10/...-in-the-quran/
The above verses highlighted above in the Quran did state 'do good' but almost all are asking Muslims to do good to Muslims only but hardly any that advise doing good to non-Muslims, the infidels.
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Old 05-07-2016, 10:51 AM
 
352 posts, read 308,098 times
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Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim. As salaamu alaykum.



Quote:
Here is one attempt to justify Islamic verses in good light.

Quote:
Two Hundred Verses about Compassionate Living in the Quran.

As only the Islamophobes, who hate Islam or those Muslims, who want to enforce Shariah Law, of their imagination, by hook or crook, make headlines, the compassionate teachings of the Holy Quran are lost to the ordinary, non-Muslim observer.

The Holy Quran talks about One God and one human family.

Here, I want to stress the Quranic message of compassion, love and kindness by cataloging, as many verses, as I can, realizing that it can never be an exhaustive list as other readers will continue to find new ideas of mercy and grace in other verses of the Holy Quran.

https://themuslimtimes.info/2013/10/...-in-the-quran/
The above verses highlighted above in the Quran did state 'do good' but almost all are asking Muslims to do good to Muslims only but hardly any that advise doing good to non-Muslims, the infidels.
What is the problem with verses that respect non-religionist. The point being to bring them into the light of said religion. Many of those in darkness, want to make war with those of a religious background.
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Old 05-07-2016, 11:01 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,582,067 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devotee View Post
Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim. As salaamu alaykum.

What is the problem with verses that respect non-religionist. The point being to bring them into the light of said religion. Many of those in darkness, want to make war with those of a religious background.
My point is that article claimed there are 200 verses that indicated compassionate living as if Allah in the Quran is compassionate to non-Muslims as well.

I suggest you read the articles and the verses that are highlighted, you will note Allah is MOSTLY compassionate to believers and Muslims ONLY and VERY RARELY extend any compassion to non-Muslims unconditionally as human beings.

Show me 10 verses where Allah is kind and compassionate to non-Muslims as specifically mentioned as in 60:8 without conditions.

Btw, there are 3,400 verses where infidels are identified and condemned in the most derogatory terms.
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Old 05-08-2016, 12:11 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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For those* who rely on the Ahadith and tafsir;

Quote:

Meaning and context of verse 60:8


According to the tafsir and hadith, this verse was revealed in the context of Abu Bakr's daughter, who refused to let her mother in the house because she was a disbeliever. As Muslims often scream about context (usually when faced with the more violent qur'anic verses), some would say because it was revealed in the context of disbelieving mothers, then it only applies in that context.

Imam Ahmad recorded that `Abdullah bin Zubayr said, "Qutaylah came visiting her daughter, Asma' bint Abi Bakr, with some gifts, such as Dibab, cheese and clarified (cooking) butter, and she was an idolatress at that time. Asma' refused to accept her mother's gifts and did not let her enter her house. `A'ishah asked the Prophet about his verdict and Allah sent down the Ayah

The Permissibility of being Kind to Disbelievers who do not fight against the Religion And Allah's statement;
Hadith of Imam Ahmed, Tafsir Ibn Kathir
https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Allah_For...ntext_of_verse
* personally I do not agree the Ahadith has any divine authority and whatever is acceptable from the Ahadith must agree with what is in the Quran only.
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Old 05-08-2016, 12:24 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Here is a counter view 60:8 as a standalone command;
The Myth of Islamic Tolerance

Verse 60:8-9 - An Opposing View
God forbids you not, as regards those who have not fought you in religion's cause, nor expelled you from your habitations, that you should be kindly to them, and act justly towards them; surely God loves the just. God only forbids you as to those who have fought you in religion's cause, and expelled you from your habitations, and have supported in your expulsion, that you should take them for friends. And whosoever takes them for friends, those -- they are the evildoers. S. 60:8-9
Apparently, this passage commands Muslims to live peaceably with other non-Muslim groups as long as the latter do not fight and/or harass the Muslims. But even that is not so clear.

The phrase, “Forbids not ... that you should be kind to them,” isn’t necessarily commanding Muslims to show kindness, since not forbidding is not the same as commanding. God ALLOWS Muslims to be kind to them if you want, but this includes: You do not have to. You could just as well fight them.

This is unlike Jesus’ “do good to those who hate you” (Cf. Matthew 5:44), which explicitly commands doing good to enemies, or individuals which one dislikes, and showing kindness to those who act hostile to them.

One Muslim writer and apologist who has used this citation to support that the Quran is tolerant of other religions is Dr. Jamal Badawi. Dr. Badawi writes in an email to Robert Spencer of www.jihadwatch.org:

Textual Context: The Qur’an prohibits compulsion in religion [2:256]. It teaches the Oneness of God, acceptance and respect of all prophets [2:285], broad human brotherhood [49:13], acceptance of plurality [5:48; 11:118], universal justice and fair dealing [4:134, 5:8]. It demands just, kind and respectful treatment of those who co-exist peacefully with Muslims [60:8-9]. Peaceful and respectful dialogue with the People of the Book and the emphasis on the common grounds with them is a repeated theme in the Qur’an [e.g. 3:64; 29:46, 5:5]. Those who erroneously claimed that all such definitive [Muhkam] verses has all been “abrogated” by what they called “the verse of the sword” were mistaken and failed to give any definitive evidence of their claims. They were refuted by both famous classical scholars like Al-Suyuti and Ibn Al-Jawzi as well as contemporary scholars like Subhi Al-Saleh and Abdullah Al-Judai` and many others. The concept of Naskh has been often misunderstood by some including Muslims too. (Source)
In another forum, Dr. Badawi reiterates this position:

There is no single verse in the Qur'an properly interpreted in its context and historical circumstances that ever allowed the Muslim to fight non-Muslims simply because they are non-Muslims. The opposite is true; in Chapter 60, verse 8 and 9 in the Qur'an, it clearly says that non-Muslims who are not fighting against Muslims or oppressing them are entitled to kind and just treatment. Also, in the Qur'an, Chapter 2, verse 256, it says: let there be no compulsion in religion." It is in the light of these two verses and many others in the Qur'an that the Hadith referred to should be understood...

One of the sensible rules of interpretation is not to stretch the meaning of terms the way some people do. The context of permissibility to fight against aggression or oppression has nothing to do with the argument in this question. For example, the Qur'an, in Chapter 60, verse, 8 and 9, gives an explanation of that oppression; that they drive Muslims out of their homes. Furthermore, the best interpreter of the Qur'an is Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) who fought against those who committed acts of murder against Muslims or were gathering to attack Muslims. (Source)
Dr. Badawi obviously feels that this passage, as well as the others he listed, supports his understanding, his interpretation, that the Quran permits the peaceful coexistence of other religions. He believes that these verses provide the basis in which to argue that Islam is tolerant by nature.

The problem with this exegesis is that it overlooks other passages which command Muslims to fight against other religious groups who have not necessarily fought against Islam:
O Believers! only they who join gods with God(almushrikoona) are unclean (najasun)! Let them not, therefore, after this their year, come near the sacred Temple. And if ye fear want, God, if He please, will enrich you of His abundance: for God is Knowing, Wise.
Make war upon such of those to whom the Scriptures have been given as believe not in God, or in the last day, and who forbid not that which God and His Apostle have forbidden, and who profess not the profession of the truth, until they pay tribute out of hand, and they be humbled.

The Jews say, "Ezra (Ozair) is a son of God"; and the Christians say, "The Messiah is a son of God." Such the sayings in their mouths! They resemble the saying of the Infidels(kafaroo) of old! God do battle with them! How are they misguided! They take their teachers, and their monks, and the Messiah, son of Mary, for Lords beside God, though bidden to worship one God only. There is no God but He! Far from His glory be what they associate with Him! Fain would they put out God's light with their mouths: but God only desireth to perfect His light, albeit the Infidels(alkafiroona) abhor it. He it is who hath sent His Apostle with the Guidance and a religion of the truth, that He may make it victorious over every other religion, albeit they who assign partners to God (almushrikoona) be averse from it. O Believers! of a truth, many of the teachers and monks do devour man's substance in vanity, and turn them from the Way of God. But to those who treasure up gold and silver and expend it not in the Way of God, announce tidings of a grievous torment. S. 9:28-34 Rodwell
This lengthy citation likens non-Muslim groups to something unclean, impure, and labels them as associators, of committing the sin of association or shirk, which in Islam is the unpardonable sin, the most heinous offense against Allah:


Verily, God will not forgive the union of other gods with Himself! But other than this will forgive to whom He pleaseth. And He who uniteth gods with God hath devised a great wickedness. S. 4:48 Rodwell

God truly will not forgive the joining other gods with Himself. Other sins He will forgive to whom He will: but he who joineth gods with God, hath erred with far-gone error. S. 4:116 Rodwell

Clearly, the surah 9 passage is condoning offensive military expeditions against non-aggressive groups such as Jews and Christians, individuals who have not taken arms against Muslims. The Islamic narrations provide examples of how Muhammad implemented the above injunction against the People of the Book, i.e. Jews and Christians, who hadn’t done anything against him. The following narration is one example:


Ibn Shihab reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) made an expedition to Tabuk and he (the Holy Prophet) had in his mind (the idea of threatening the) Christians of Arabia in Syria and those of Rome ...

Ka'b said: By Allah, since Allah directed me to Islam there has been no blessing more significant for me than this truth of mine which I spoke to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and if I were to tell a lie I would have been ruined as were ruined those who told lies, for in regard to those who told lies Allah used harshest words used for anyone as He descended revelation (and the words of Allah are): "They will swear by Allah to you when you return to them so that you may leave them alone. So leave them alone. Surely, they are unclean and their resort is Hell, recompense for what they earned. They will swear to you that you may be pleased with them but if you are pleased with them, yet surely Allah is not pleased with the transgressing people" (ix. 95-96). K'ab said that the matter of us three persons was deferred as compared with those who took an oath in the presence of Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) and he accepted their allegiance and sought forgiveness for them and Allah did not give any decision in regard to us. It was Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, Who gave decisions in our case, three who remained behind. (The words of the Qur'an) "the three who were left behind" do not mean that we remained back from Jihad but these imply that He kept our matter behind them who took oath and presented excuse before Him. This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Zuhri with the same chain of transmitters. (Sahih Muslim, Book 037, Number 6670)

<snip>

Hence, it is very plausible that passages encouraging tolerance such as surah 60:8-9 were later abrogated.
Interestingly, this has actually been the position of many renowned Muslim scholars. We provide a few examples of Muslim scholarly opinions on passages such as surah 9:1,5 and 29 which are taken from this online source.
tafsir
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Old 05-08-2016, 09:51 AM
 
352 posts, read 308,098 times
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Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim. As salaamu alaykum.


There are presently, people who are awaiting a New World Order, which demands worship of the renegade, Satan as a god. This is of course seeking conflict with the True, One and Only God. Obviously this cannot be permitted to stand, as Satan is not the Almighty, Creator God but is instead a created being subject to the judgement of the Last Day. We perhaps cannot fathom the numbers of people who are part of and awaiting this New World Order. However, it appears to be a great backwards step, which will likely bring with it, the judgement.
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Old 05-08-2016, 12:56 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,908 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devotee View Post
Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim. As salaamu alaykum.


There are presently, people who are awaiting a New World Order, which demands worship of the renegade, Satan as a god. This is of course seeking conflict with the True, One and Only God. Obviously this cannot be permitted to stand, as Satan is not the Almighty, Creator God but is instead a created being subject to the judgement of the Last Day. We perhaps cannot fathom the numbers of people who are part of and awaiting this New World Order. However, it appears to be a great backwards step, which will likely bring with it, the judgement.
Interestingly, many people think that Allah IS Satan. It is Allah who threatens to burn people in everlasting fire. It is Allah that gave permission for slavery and slaughter and terrorism and sex with a child and a command to take over the world.

So, wouldn't that kind of thing be considered Satanic?

Quran 9:68
"Allah has promised the hypocritical men and the hypocritical women and the unbelievers the fire of hell to abide therein; it is enough for them; and Allah has cursed them and they shall have lasting punishment."

There are many verses like this in the Quran.

2:221
Do not marry unbelieving women (idolaters), until they believe: A slave woman who believes is better than an unbelieving woman, even though she allures you. Nor marry (your girls) to unbelievers until they believe: A man slave who believes is better than an unbeliever, even though he allures you. Unbelievers do (but) beckon you to the Fire. But Allah beckons by His Grace to the Garden (of bliss) and forgiveness, and makes His Signs clear to mankind: That they may celebrate His praise.

Nowhere does the Quran say that slavery is evil.

Quran 3:151
We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve for what they have associated with Allah of which He had not sent down [any] authority. And their refuge will be the Fire, and wretched is the residence of the wrongdoers.

Quran 9:5

"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them."

Find them and kill them unless they submit to Allah. This is even worse than anything I have heard about Satan.

Quran 65:4
And those who no longer expect menstruation among your women - if you doubt, then their period is three months, and [also for] those who have not menstruated (!!!). And for those who are pregnant, their term is until they give birth. And whoever fears Allah - He will make for him of his matter ease.

Also

That the Prophet said to her, “You have been shown to me twice in my dream. I saw you pictured on a piece of silk and some-one said (to me). ‘This is your wife.’ When I uncovered the picture, I saw that it was yours. I said, ‘If this is from Allah, it will be done.” {Bukhari :: Volume 5 :: Book 58 :: Hadith 235}

Wouldn't these things be things that Satan would want? Slavery, eternal horrible torture by fire, pedophilia, terrorism, murder?
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Old 05-08-2016, 03:56 PM
 
352 posts, read 308,098 times
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Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim. As salaamu alaykum.




Quote:
Interestingly, many people think that Allah IS Satan. It is Allah who threatens to burn people in everlasting fire. It is Allah that gave permission for slavery and slaughter and terrorism and sex with a child and a command to take over the world.
So, wouldn't that kind of thing be considered Satanic?
Reply:Satan, is a creation of God. Allah is the proper name of God. 'Al' is the principle 'The' - Ilah means the absolute entity whom is worshipped, whom is loved more than anything, whom is respected and Glorified. What does "ilah" mean? - Ask a Question to Us

You like to make this a foundation for your diatribe. The Prophet Muhammad PBUH, married her. Cannot The One and Only God, do as HE will with what is HIS?

(look at what is done to little girls today;even infants fresh out of the womb).

'Truly I say to you, that Satan became not reprobate for any other sin than for his pride. Even as says the prophet Isaiah;reproaching him with these words: "How are you fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, that were the beauty of the angels, and did shine like the dawn: truly to earth is fallen your pride!"' Gospel of Barnabas


Quote:
Quran 9:68
"Allah has promised the hypocritical men and the hypocritical women and the unbelievers the fire of hell to abide therein; it is enough for them; and Allah has cursed them and they shall have lasting punishment."
-- There are many verses like this in the Quran.

Reply: "hypocritical" professing feelings or virtues one does not have; "hypocritical praise"

Quote:
2:221
Do not marry unbelieving women (idolaters), until they believe: A slave woman who believes is better than an unbelieving woman, even though she allures you. Nor marry (your girls) to unbelievers until they believe: A man slave who believes is better than an unbeliever, even though he allures you. Unbelievers do (but) beckon you to the Fire. But Allah beckons by His Grace to the Garden (of bliss) and forgiveness, and makes His Signs clear to mankind: That they may celebrate His praise.
--Nowhere does the Quran say that slavery is evil.


Reply:Some persons are unable to take care of themselves.



Quote:
Quran 3:151
We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve for what they have associated with Allah of which He had not sent down [any] authority. And their refuge will be the Fire, and wretched is the residence of the wrongdoers.

Quran 9:5

"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them."

Find them and kill them unless they submit to Allah. This is even worse than anything I have heard about Satan.

Quran 65:4
And those who no longer expect menstruation among your women - if you doubt, then their period is three months, and [also for] those who have not menstruated (!!!). And for those who are pregnant, their term is until they give birth. And whoever fears Allah - He will make for him of his matter ease.

Also

That the Prophet said to her, “You have been shown to me twice in my dream. I saw you pictured on a piece of silk and some-one said (to me). ‘This is your wife.’ When I uncovered the picture, I saw that it was yours. I said, ‘If this is from Allah, it will be done.” {Bukhari :: Volume 5 :: Book 58 :: Hadith 235}
Wouldn't these things be things that Satan would want? Slavery, eternal horrible torture by fire, pedophilia, terrorism, murder?


Reply:The followers of Satan pursue these things with corrupt intentions: they enslave and torture, terrorize, rape and murder the slaves. Well kept slave must eat the same food, wear the same clothes, live in the same dwellings as the so-called slave master!

You should read the Gospel of Barnabas regarding Satan.

I only wish that you would stop this constant display of hatred of Islam. You do not appear to learn from the replies you've received. I for one will not respond to future displays of hatred.
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Old 05-08-2016, 04:12 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I am doing some researching for my project i.e.
Verses with where infidels or non-Muslims are mentioned in a positive light.
60:8 [Shakir] Allah does not forbid you [Muslims] (from) respecting those [infidels]
-who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and
-[who] have not driven you forth from your homes,
that you show them kindness and deal with them [infidels] justly;
surely Allah loves the doers of justice.
Khalif [& many Muslims] often used 60:8 to justify the Quran has elements of kindness and justice extended to infidels or non-Muslims.
However I dispute this one verse do not carry much weight by itself when there are 3,400 verses differentiating, segregating the "infidels" i.e. non-Muslims and condemning them with the most derogatory terms.

My question is are there any other verses where the infidels or non-Muslims are mentioned in positive light or terms.

So far I noted the following;
73:10 Listen to what they [kafirs] say with patience, and leave them with dignity.

29:46 Do not dispute with the followers of the Book [the Jews] except in the best way and unless it is they who have dealt wrongfully with you. Say: We believe in what has been sent down to us and has been sent down to you. Our Allah and your god are one, and to Him are we submitted.

109:2-6 I do not worship what you worship, and you do not worship what I worship. I will never worship what you worship, and you will never worship what I worship. You to your religion, me to my religion.

256. There is no compulsion [on infidels] in religion [alddeeni]. The right direction [straight path] is henceforth distinct from error. And he [Muslim] who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm hand hold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower. [
The problem is [except 29:46] the above verses are followed condemnation of the infidel in some following verses within the same chapter or in another chapter. e.g.
73:11 Let me deal with the wealthy and those who deny the truth [kafirs]. Bear with them for a while, because We have strong shackles and a raging Fire and food that chokes and a painful punishment.
Are there any others verses [besides the above] in the Quran where the infidels or non-Muslims identified and specifically mentioned in a positive light or terms?
Verses that are provided by all the positive abrogated verses have been canceled in the states of the sword and the most important of Surat Al-Baraa and reel The moust Muslim does not know the importance diffrent of the duplicator and copied
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