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Old 05-15-2016, 05:39 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 752,612 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
4"24 is in reference as to who a Muslim man is permitted to marry.

go back to at least 4:22 and read at least to 4:25


The full discourse consists of 4:1-35 and is a basic set of family rules regarding marriage and children and the care of orphans. It should be read in it's entirety and not picking out single lines as if they were orders or commands.
I totally get that the Quran sets rules about marriage, including that Muslim men can marry their slaves and captive women (whom their right hand owns as property). I think there is also mention of marriage to children whom have not even had their first menses.

But I am talking about being able to RAPE (in the case of these hadith) captive women. I would hope that you are not suggesting that these captive women want to be 'married' and fornicated with by the very ones who had just attacked their homes and slaughtered or captured their families.

And are you suggesting that Muslims sell off their wives after sex?

"O Allah's Apostle! We get female captives as our share of booty, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interruptus?" The Prophet said, "Do you really do that? It is better for you not to do coitus interruptus. A soul that which Allah has destined to exist will surely come into existence.” (Bukhari 34:432)

No mention of stopping the mass rape. Just permission to ejaculate into the women they were raping.

"We went out with Allah's Messenger on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Messenger, and he said: It does not matter" (Sahih Muslim 3371)

The Apostle of Allah sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: (Sura 4:24) "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." (Abu Dawud 2150, also Muslim 3433)
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Old 05-15-2016, 05:41 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 752,612 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devotee View Post
no thanx.
Could you at least post the photos? It would help establish your credibility. As Carl Sagan said: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
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Old 05-15-2016, 10:57 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,585,898 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devotee View Post
Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim. As salaamu alaykum.

There is competition of sort outstripping evil, before ones term ends. One must be fast enough to reach the goal of plentiful good, before evil overtakes you. This calls for fast thinking, as the demons constantly pursue and attack believers, to sidetrack them towards the worlds of darkness.

This is no joke, as they are constantly in my affairs, trying to change my life to follow the foolishness that they all love. Much of what they love is injurious to believers, but gives demons great joy.

Although they watch us from where we cannot see them, I've caught glimpses of them from time to time. One such demon, I saw wrestling with my sprained finger as if it were a bull, trying cause permanent damage to the already torn ligaments.

As if that is not enough to cause distraction, I would wonder what alternative you (continuum) suggest to replace "true" religion? As this is the main hatred of the demons, or so it seems.
First there is no such entities as demons. If you don't believe them, they will not appear.

What you have experienced is VERY possible 'Alien Hand Syndrome.'
Quote:

Alien hand syndrome
is a rare neurological disorder that causes hand movement without the person being aware of what is happening or having control over the action.
The afflicted person may sometimes reach for objects and manipulate them without wanting to do so, even to the point of having to use the controllable hand to restrain the alien hand. Alien hand syndrome is best documented in cases where a person has had the …
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_hand_syndrome
In some case the Alien Hand of the person, the person's own hand will even try to choke, strangle and beat the person.
Quote:
An 81 year old right handed woman developed a left alien hand syndrome characterised by involuntary movements of choking and hitting the face, neck, and shoulder.
Sensory alien hand syndrome: case report and review of the literature. - PubMed - NCBI
What Cause Alien Hand Syndrome?

Quote:
Alien Hand Syndrome - Symptoms, Causes, Treatment, Facts
Causes
The condition alien hand syndrome is reported to be caused by a brain injury or infliction that is associated with distinct parts of the brain. But in general, the exact or root cause for this condition is yet to be discovered that can be entirely supportive of the condition. Here are some of the associations of the disease-process in the damage of specific parts of the brain:

Corpus callosum
It is believed that damage to this part of the brain can provide the symptoms of alien hand syndrome on the non-dominant hand. There is an intermanual conflict, a condition that the hands are directed to actions with opposing goals.

Treatment
There is no known treatment for this condition as this is not entirely sought out as to the definitive cause of the condition.
The only aim for the treatment course of alien hand syndrome is to reduce the manifestations and to manage the persons’ hand in the hopes to have a full control of every action. The treatment course would include providing the client exercises. Tasks are provided to clients in order to restore their voluntary control of the affected hand. Another approach is done to patients by reducing the interference of the alien hand to behave on its own. The trainer shall provide task for the alien hand in order for the person to become trained with the voluntary actions.
Quote:
As if that is not enough to cause distraction, I would wonder what alternative you (continuum) suggest to replace "true" religion? As this is the main hatred of the demons, or so it seems.
There is no such things as Demons.
I would suggest you see a psychiatrist or someone who specialize in treating Alien Hand Syndrome who will be able to control such incidents.

Since you had other experiences of altered states of consciousness, it would advisable to seek a psychiatrist who can provide you at least an opinion and cure where possible.

In addition it would also be a good suggestion that you seek mental exercises that can give you better control over your own mind and give you a peace of mind.

For example:
https://www.amazon.ca/Full-Catastrop.../dp/0385303122


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkTC6jrtbfY

Full Catastrophe Living can help you to control your own mind and deal with the unreal "demons" in your mind.

Quote:
As for giving donations with fear. I worry that what I give might be usurious. Usury is an enormous problem in today's world. It has caused most of the present world to live in poverty. When will usury be curtailed? It is no more than deprivation.
How can what you donate be usurious? You are not asking for interest [usury] when you donate your own money.

In any case there are pros and cons of usury [interests]. What to avoid is to go the extreme of charging extreme interests and engage in abuses.

Last edited by Continuum; 05-16-2016 at 12:06 AM..
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Old 05-15-2016, 11:52 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 662,792 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
For beginners, what makes you believe Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyya is a reknowned scholar. His qualifications are not much different from those of most scholars. Being a Human who was born nearly 700 years after the Death of Muhammad(saws0 his sources of information are the sme as those used by numerous other scholars. As he was a Sufi, I believe he probably was a very quiet and peaceful individual and I do like his peaceful views of Islam. However, I do not find anything that distinguishes him as being an expert on the life of Muhammad(saws0 and he is no more accurate that the sum of his sources, which do contain errors.
Slaves during the time of Muhammad(saws) were the minimum wage laborer of the era. Muhammad(saws) did teach they were to be treated fairly and 'like Brothers" Some interesting things that are not mentioned in any Ahadith. The type of house Muhammad(saws) lived in. What duties he would have had for a slave to do. Instead we have mention of how one should treat slaves as brothers and sister or as our children
Your servants and your slaves are your brothers. Anyone who has slaves should give them from what he eats and wears. He should not charge them with work beyond their capabilities. If you must set them to hard work, in any case I advise you to help them.

Source: Bukhari, Iman, 22; Adab, 44; Muslim, Iman, 38–40; Abu Dawud, Adab, 124

Ali reported that the last words of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, were: "The prayer! The prayer! Fear Allah concerning your slaves ! "

Source: Al-Adab al-Mufrad Al-Bukhari , Nr. 158.

· Jabir ibn 'Abdullah said, "The Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, advised that slaves should be well-treated. He said, 'Feed them from what you eat and clothe them from what you wear. Do not punish what Allah has created.' "

Source: Al-Adab al-Mufrad Al-Bukhari , Nr. 188.

· Sallam ibn 'Amr reported from one of the Companions of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Your slaves are your brothers, so treat him well. Ask for their help in what is too much for you and help them in what is too much for them."

Source: Al-Adab al-Mufrad Al-Bukhari , Nr. 190.

· Abu Hurayra reported that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "The slave has his food and clothing. Do not burden a slave with work which he is incapable of doing."

Source: Al-Adab al-Mufrad Al-Bukhari , Nr. 192.

Not one of you should [ when introducing someone ] say ‘This is my slave’ , ‘This is my concubine’. He should call them ‘my daughter’ or ‘my son’ or ‘my brother’.

Source: Ibn Hanbal, Musnad, 2 ,4

It should be noted that Muhammad(Saws) bought more slaves than he sold. This is because he usually freed slaves after buying them

It is not righteousness that you turn your faces toward East or West; but it is righteousness . . . to spend of your substance . . . for the ransom of slaves. (2:177)

Never should a Believer kill a Believer; but (if it so happens) by mistake, (compensation is due): if one (so) kills a Believer, it is ordained that he should free a believing slave, and pay compensation to the deceased's family . . . For those who find this beyond their means, (is prescribed) a fast for two months running: by way of repentance to Allah. (4:92)

Allah will not call you to account for what is futile in your oaths, but will call you to account for your deliberate oaths: for expiation, feed ten indigent persons . . . or clothe them; or give a slave his freedom. If that is beyond your means, fast for three days. (5:89)

Alms are for the poor and the needy, and those employed to administer the (funds); . . . for those in bondage and in debt . . . (9:60)

But for those who divorce their wives . . . then wish to go back on the words they uttered, - (it is ordained that such a one) should free a slave before they touch each other: this you are admonished to perform . . . And if any has not (the wherewithal), he should fast for two months consecutively before they touch each other. But if any is unable to do so, he should feed sixty indigent ones. (58:3-4)

Verily We have created Man into toil and struggle. . . . And what will explain to you the path that is steep? - (It is freeing the bondman . . . (90:4-13)

Muhammad(saws) was very much an abolutionist that freed slaves
Muhammad the Abolitionist: Slavery in the Qur'an
Why did Islam forbids slavery
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Old 05-15-2016, 11:53 PM
 
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Why did Islam not forbids slavery
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Old 05-16-2016, 12:42 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,291,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
I totally get that the Quran sets rules about marriage, including that Muslim men can marry their slaves and captive women (whom their right hand owns as property). I think there is also mention of marriage to children whom have not even had their first menses.

But I am talking about being able to RAPE (in the case of these hadith) captive women. I would hope that you are not suggesting that these captive women want to be 'married' and fornicated with by the very ones who had just attacked their homes and slaughtered or captured their families.

And are you suggesting that Muslims sell off their wives after sex?

"O Allah's Apostle! We get female captives as our share of booty, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interruptus?" The Prophet said, "Do you really do that? It is better for you not to do coitus interruptus. A soul that which Allah has destined to exist will surely come into existence.” (Bukhari 34:432)

No mention of stopping the mass rape. Just permission to ejaculate into the women they were raping.

"We went out with Allah's Messenger on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Messenger, and he said: It does not matter" (Sahih Muslim 3371)

The Apostle of Allah sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: (Sura 4:24) "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." (Abu Dawud 2150, also Muslim 3433)
You seem to have your mind fixed on mass rape. Which did not occur. You first need to understand that most of the Ahadith are partial statements, usually limited to a few things that a witness remembered.

I do not off hand remember the full Isnad on the 2 Ahadith you are Quoting, but in the case of
Sahih Muslim Book 008, Hadith Number 3371.
We have

Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa'id al Khadri (Allah he pleased with him): O Abu Sa'id, did you hear Allah's Messenger (May peace be upon him) mentioning al-'azl? He said: Yes, and added: We went out with Allah's Messenger (May peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Messenger (May peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born.

We have essentially heresay "Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa'id al Khadri (Allah he pleased with him): "
We do not know exactly what was said or the circmstances. But we do know that Rape has always been a punishable crime and it is forbidden for unmarried people to have sexual relations. the only thing we can be reasonably certain from that Hadith is coitus interruptus is either highly discouraged or forbidden.If you are thinking it refers to the permission of raping slaves, you are reading more into the Hadith than what is there.

Here is a bit better translation of Muslim 3433
Abu Sa'id al-Khudri (Allah be pleased with him) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) sent a small army. The rest of the hadith is the same except this that he said: Except what your right hands possessout of them are lawful for you; and he did not mention" when their 'idda period comes to an end". This hadith has been reported on the authority of AbuSa'id (al-Khudri) (Allah be pleased with him) through another chain of transmitters and the words are: They took captives (women) on the day of Autas who had their husbands. They were afraid (to have sexual intercourse with them) when this verse was revealed:" And women already married except those whom you right hands posses"
It is a question of Marrying the slave women. Not the permission of gang raping slaves

The Ahadith are best read by those who have had an extensive study of "The Science of Hadith" so they can have a better grasp as to what the Ahadith actually are and what the limitations regarding them are. but, overall if a Hadith contradicts the Qur'an or shariah the Hadith is either wrong or Misunderstood.
The basic teachings of the Qur'an and Islamic jurisprudence absolutly forbid the raping of slaves

It is virtually impossible to understand a Hadith by just reading it as a stand alone statement. To understand Muslim 3371 and Muslim 3233 one should also be aware of what the Qur'an states is permitted for sexual relations and consider it in association with the following ahadith and Surat. It is a considerable amount of reading, but to those who read all of it it is evident raping slaves or anyone else is prohibited. Public sex is also prohibited. sex with a slave without marriage is adultery. etc.

Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 52 :: Hadith 255 ,Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 55 :: Hadith 655, Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 46 :: Hadith 720, Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 46 :: Hadith 723 , Muslim :: Book 8 : Hadith 3327 ,

Muslim :: Book 1 : Hadith 285
Narrated Abu Musa Al-Ash'ari:
Allah's Apostle said, "If a person teaches his slave girl good manners properly, educates her properly, and then manumits and marries her, he will get a double reward. And if a man believes in Jesus and then believes in me, he will get a double reward. And if a slave fears his Lord (i.e. Allah) and obeys his masters, he too will get a double reward."

4: 25. And whoever of you have not the means wherewith to wed free, believing women, they may wed believing girls from among those (captives and slaves) whom your right hands possess, and Allâh has full knowledge about your Faith, you are one from another. Wed them with the permission of their own folk (guardians, Auliyâ' or masters) and give them their Mahr according to what is reasonable; they (the above said captive and slave-girls) should be chaste, not adulterous, nor taking boy-friends. And after they have been taken in wedlock, if they commit illegal sexual intercourse, their punishment is half that for free (unmarried) women. This is for him among you who is afraid of being harmed in his religion or in his body; but it is better for you that you practice self-restraint, and Allâh is Oft¬Forgiving, Most Merciful.
24: 32. And marry those among you who are single (i.e. a man who has no wife and the woman who has no husband) and (also marry) the Sâlihűn (pious, fit and capable ones) of your (male) slaves and maid-servants (female slaves). If they be poor, Allâh will enrich them out of His Bounty. And Allâh is All-Sufficient for His creatures' needs, All-Knowing (about the state of the people).


Muslim :: Book 43 : Hadith 7158
Malik :: Book 36 : Hadith 36.16.14
Malik :: Book 41 : Hadith 41.2.13


24:33. and let those who find not the financial means for marriage keep themselves chaste, until Allah enriches them of His Bounty. And such of your slaves as seek a writing (of emancipation), give them such writing, if you know that they are good and trustworthy. And give them something yourselves out of the wealth of Allah which He has bestowed upon you. And force not your maids to prostitution, if they desire chastity, in order that you may make a gain in the (perishable) goods of this worldly life. But if anyone compels them (to prostitution), then after such compulsion, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to those women, i.e. He will forgive them because they have been forced to do this evil action unwillingly).

Bukhari :: Book 7 :: Volume 63 :: Hadith 260
Bukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 82 :: Hadith 822,823
Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 46 :: Hadith 731
Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 36 :: Hadith 483
Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 34 :: Hadith 440 ,436,439
Muslim :: Book 43 : Hadith 7180, 7181

Muslim :: Book 40 : Hadith 6856
……Qatada said: Abu Abdullah, would this happen? Thereupon he said: Yes. By Allah, I found this in the days of ignorance that a person grazed the goat of a tribe and did not find anyone but their slave-girl (and he did not spare her) but committed adultery with her.

Muslim :: Book 20 : Hadith 4554
It his been narrated through a different chain of transmitters, on the authority of Hudhaifa b. al-Yaman who said: Messenger of Allah, no doubt, we had an evil time (i. e. the days of Jahiliyya or ignorance) and God brought us a good time (i. e. Islamic period) through which we are now living Will there be a bad time after this good time? He (the Holy Prophet) said: Yes. I said: Will there be a good time after this bad time? He said: Yes. I said: Will there be a bad time after good time? He said: Yes.

Bukhari :: Book 9 :: Volume 83 :: Hadith 21
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
The Prophet said, "The most hated persons to Allah are three: (1) A person who deviates from the right conduct, i.e., an evil doer, in the Haram (sanctuaries of Mecca and Medina); (2) a person who seeks that the traditions of the Pre-lslamic Period of Ignorance, should remain in Islam (3) and a person who seeks to shed somebody's blood without any right."

Malik :: Book 41 : Hadith 41.6.19
4:24,70:30
Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 34 :: Hadith 435, 436, 362 ,363
Muslim :: Book 17 : Hadith 4219,4221, 4224
Malik :: Book 41 : Hadith 41.2.13
Muslim :: Book 17 : Hadith 4201
Muslim :: Book 37 : Hadith 6676
Muslim :: Book 40 : Hadith 6856
Malik :: Book 41 : Hadith 41.2.13
Bukhari :: Book 9 :: Volume 93 :: Hadith 506
Bukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 79 :: Hadith 706
Bukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 77 :: Hadith 600
Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 46 :: Hadith 718
Malik :: Book 29 : Hadith 29.32.95
Muslim :: Book 17 : Hadith 4201
Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 34 :: Hadith 432
Bukhari:6949
Muslim :: Book 43 : Hadith 7181
Dawud :: Book 12 : Hadith 2304
Dawud :: Book 38 : Hadith 4445
Malik :: Book 54 : Hadith 54.16.42
Malik :: Book 41 : Hadith 41.3.15
Malik :: Book 28 : Hadith 28.13.30, 28.13.31
Malik :: Book 28 : Hadith 28.14.33
Malik :: Book 28 : Hadith 28.14.35
Malik :: Book 28 : Hadith 28.15.36 ,28.15.37, 28.15.38
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Old 05-16-2016, 06:02 AM
 
352 posts, read 308,581 times
Reputation: 54
Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim. As salaamu alaykum.

Replies to post by Continuum:


Quote:
First there is no such entities as demons. If you don't believe them, they will not appear.
Demons, devils, Satan's, whatever, they are evil spirits.

Quote:
What you have experienced is VERY possible 'Alien Hand Syndrome.'
That has to be a joke! And it's quite clever. No one but the Satan's, would come up with something so silly to cover-up their crime.

Quote:
There is no such things as Demons.
I would suggest you see a psychiatrist or someone who specialize in treating Alien Hand Syndrome who will be able to control such incidents.
Call them whatever you like. They exist, and Al-Qur'an is the best source of information about them. Apparently, you don't know whether or not, they have possession of you. You appear to be defending them. Or at least covering for them. You had better take your own advice and seek medical help.


Quote:
Since you had other experiences of altered states of consciousness, it would advisable to seek a psychiatrist who can provide you at least an opinion and cure where possible.
I've had no altered states of consciousness. Some mystical experiences were give me for good reason. As I find myself inundated (swamped, bombarded), with the presence of Demons, devils, Satan's. I can imagine how my faith would have been destroyed if I had not experienced what I have. These evil spirits want only the dark path!


Quote:
In addition it would also be a good suggestion that you seek mental exercises that can give you better control over your own mind and give you a peace of mind.
I stay as close as humanly possible to The One and Only God. This is good advice for yourself as well. As I have been in much worse situations and Allah has brought me through them without a scratch (so to speak).

Quote:
How can what you donate be usurious? You are not asking for interest [usury] when you donate your own money.
Some business dealings (some type's of apartment insurance for instance) return over payments which may include extra money that I consider usurious, although it might not be so. Not to say that usury cannot be donated. It can be.
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Old 05-16-2016, 09:35 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 752,612 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by devotee View Post


I've had no altered states of consciousness. Some mystical experiences were give me for good reason. As I find myself inundated (swamped, bombarded), with the presence of Demons, devils, Satan's. I can imagine how my faith would have been destroyed if I had not experienced what I have. These evil spirits want only the dark path!

Photos? Videos? You must have many if you are "inundated (swamped, bombarded)."

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
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Old 05-16-2016, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,291,704 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
Why did Islam not forbids slavery
Islam did what was best at the time and set the foundation to abolish slavery. Slavery was/is a very complex issue. It still exists today even in the USA and other Western nation only now the names have changed today it is the "Incarceration of Criminals" Minimum wage, Welfare, Military obligation and home rentals.

Islam set down rules as to how slaves should be treated, which is very similar to today's paid labor.. In Islam slaves were not treated in the same manner African slaves were treated in America. They were to be treated as family members and always be fiven means to obtain full freedom. Slaves under Islam were evenpermitted to hold government posistions, vote and had the same basic rights as other citizens.

The existence of slavery is an ancient condition. It existed long before the Qur'an was revealed to Muhammad, starting in 610 C.E. What is interesting is comparing the depiction of slavery in the Qur'an to the Old and New Testament. In these older Jewish and Christian holy texts, a specific plan to eliminate the human bondage of our temporal present is never discussed. The Qur'an, on the other hand, not only recognized the immorality of slavery in seventh century Arabia, but sought to end it. The plan to do so is both implicit and explicit. To recognize this is to respect the Islamic attempt, in the name of Allah, to destroy an evil custom nearly thirteen centuries before America would legally and politically do the same.
Muhammad the Abolitionist: Slavery in the Qur'an

Apart from giving the slaves their rights, Islam also took it a step ahead and discouraged slavery from being practiced. It is seen in history that slaves were mistreated in the non-Islamic world. Not only were they verbally abused, they were physically abused as well. The master would overburden the slave and make them work all day. Slaves would wear torn and tattered clothes while the masters would dress with the finest threads available. When it would come to food, the slaves would get leftovers or if not, very little food which would certainly not include good quality food. Some would not even get meat or fruits which their masters ate. Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) with Divine Inspiration from Allah(SWT) forbade such acts. Masters could not abuse their slaves and had to give them the same that they ate and wore.
Slaves in Islam

Your servants and your slaves are your brothers. Anyone who has slaves should give them from what he eats and wears. He should not charge them with work beyond their capabilities. If you must set them to hard work, in any case I advise you to help them.

Source: Bukhari, Iman, 22; Adab, 44; Muslim, Iman, 38–40; Abu Dawud, Adab, 124

Ali reported that the last words of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, were: "The prayer! The prayer! Fear Allah concerning your slaves ! "

Source: Al-Adab al-Mufrad Al-Bukhari , Nr. 158.

· Jabir ibn 'Abdullah said, "The Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, advised that slaves should be well-treated. He said, 'Feed them from what you eat and clothe them from what you wear. Do not punish what Allah has created.' "

Source: Al-Adab al-Mufrad Al-Bukhari , Nr. 188.

· Sallam ibn 'Amr reported from one of the Companions of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Your slaves are your brothers, so treat him well. Ask for their help in what is too much for you and help them in what is too much for them."

Source: Al-Adab al-Mufrad Al-Bukhari , Nr. 190.

· Abu Hurayra reported that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "The slave has his food and clothing. Do not burden a slave with work which he is incapable of doing."

Source: Al-Adab al-Mufrad Al-Bukhari , Nr. 192.

Not one of you should [ when introducing someone ] say ‘This is my slave’ , ‘This is my concubine’. He should call them ‘my daughter’ or ‘my son’ or ‘my brother’.

Source: Ibn Hanbal, Musnad, 2 ,4

For this reason ‘Umar and his servant took it in turns to ride on the camel from Madina to Jerusalem on their journey to take control of Masjid al-Aqsa. While he was the head of the state, ‘Uthman had his servant pull his own ears in front of the people since he had pulled his. Abu Dharr, applying the hadith literally, made his servant wear one half of his suit while he himself wore the other half. From these instances, it was being demonstrated to succeeding generations of Muslims, and a pattern of conduct established, that a slave is fully a human being, not different from other people in his need for respect and dignity and justice.

"The masters were obliged not to put slaves under hardship; slaves were not to be tortured, abused or treated unjustly. They could marry among “themselves with their master's permission - or with free men or women ! They could appear as witnesses and participate with free men in all “affairs. Many of them were appointed as governors, commanders of army and administrators. In the eyes of Islam, a pious slave has precedence over “an impious free man." Source: Al-Tabataba'i, Tafsir ( vol.16, pp. 338-358 )
Refuting lies about Islam: Islam on slave girls/concubines

In Islam it was always considered best for a slave owner to free his slaves.
Solving the issue of slaves
Islam treated slaves in a way that eased the position of slavery imposed upon them. The fuqaha (scholars) laid down many rules detailing the treatment of slaves that ultimately led to them being set free either compulsorily or voluntarily. These rules are summarised in the following issues:
Firstly, Islam found people owning slaves so it treated the problem of slaves by addressing the owners. It dealt with slavery in such a way that gave rights to the slave whilst also maintaining their humanity. The slave is the same as a free person in relation to the natural attributes man is endowed with.
Allah (swt) in the Noble Qur’an and the Messenger of Allah (SAW) in the honoured hadith exhorted the treating of slaves with kindness.

The Islamic view on Slaves and Slavery | Khilafah.com
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Old 05-16-2016, 10:09 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 752,612 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
You seem to have your mind fixed on mass rape. Which did not occur. You first need to understand that most of the Ahadith are partial statements, usually limited to a few things that a witness remembered.

I do not off hand remember the full Isnad on the 2 Ahadith you are Quoting, but in the case of
Sahih Muslim Book 008, Hadith Number 3371.
We have

Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa'id al Khadri (Allah he pleased with him): O Abu Sa'id, did you hear Allah's Messenger (May peace be upon him) mentioning al-'azl? He said: Yes, and added: We went out with Allah's Messenger (May peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Messenger (May peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born.

We have essentially heresay "Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa'id al Khadri (Allah he pleased with him): "
We do not know exactly what was said or the circmstances. But we do know that Rape has always been a punishable crime and it is forbidden for unmarried people to have sexual relations. the only thing we can be reasonably certain from that Hadith is coitus interruptus is either highly discouraged or forbidden.If you are thinking it refers to the permission of raping slaves, you are reading more into the Hadith than what is there.

Here is a bit better translation of Muslim 3433
Abu Sa'id al-Khudri (Allah be pleased with him) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) sent a small army. The rest of the hadith is the same except this that he said: Except what your right hands possessout of them are lawful for you; and he did not mention" when their 'idda period comes to an end". This hadith has been reported on the authority of AbuSa'id (al-Khudri) (Allah be pleased with him) through another chain of transmitters and the words are: They took captives (women) on the day of Autas who had their husbands. They were afraid (to have sexual intercourse with them) when this verse was revealed:" And women already married except those whom you right hands posses"
It is a question of Marrying the slave women. Not the permission of gang raping slaves

The Ahadith are best read by those who have had an extensive study of "The Science of Hadith" so they can have a better grasp as to what the Ahadith actually are and what the limitations regarding them are. but, overall if a Hadith contradicts the Qur'an or shariah the Hadith is either wrong or Misunderstood.
The basic teachings of the Qur'an and Islamic jurisprudence absolutly forbid the raping of slaves
Ah yes, no matter how strong the hadith it is hearsay if you don't like it. It is such a convenient argument to just say: hearsay. If you want to use that excuse then use it for all of Islam, including the Quran. Because all of Islam is hearsay. Not just what you don't like.

Rape is NOT a crime if done to captive women. Allah/Muhammed did not say "DON'T YOU DARE TOUCH THOSE CAPTIVE WOMEN OR I WILL HAVE YOU BURNING IN MY ETERNAL FIRE!!!" And certainly that fire was used to threaten tons of other things. Why not this one? But instead allah gives the go ahead for mass rape.

Then you say:
"Here is a bit better translation of Muslim 3433
Abu Sa'id al-Khudri (Allah be pleased with him) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) sent a small army. The rest of the hadith is the same except this that he said: Except what your right hands possessout of them are lawful for you; and he did not mention" when their 'idda period comes to an end". This hadith has been reported on the authority of AbuSa'id (al-Khudri) (Allah be pleased with him) through another chain of transmitters and the words are: They took captives (women) on the day of Autas who had their husbands. They were afraid (to have sexual intercourse with them) when this verse was revealed:" And women already married except those whom you right hands posses"
It is a question of Marrying the slave women. Not the permission of gang raping slaves"


Marry?? That is insane! This is the gang rape of the captive women! We have been through this before. I now must suppose that if some Jews break into your house and slaughter you, your wife will want to marry them and have sex with them that very night and then be sold or enslaved by them!!

NO, it is NOT marriage. It is rape. The women will then be enslaved or sold or ransomed.

You must have a very VERY low opinion of women to think they would want to have sex with the murderers who slaughtered their husbands, sons, fathers, brothers.

And you keep going back to slaves. I am talking here about CAPTIVE WOMEN. Muhammed and his gang attack their villages, slaughter or capture the people in the village and then they mass rape the women. Then they sell or enslave or ransom them.

And no, I do not have to read tons of stuff to know what the hadiths mean. THEY ARE VERY CLEAR.

Oh, this is interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efVAByKKG3s

"O Allah's Apostle! We get female captives as our share of booty, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interruptus?" The Prophet said, "Do you really do that? It is better for you not to do coitus interruptus. A soul that which Allah has destined to exist will surely come into existence.” (Bukhari 34:432)

"We went out with Allah's Messenger on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Messenger, and he said: It does not matter" (Sahih Muslim 3371)

The Apostle of Allah sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: (Sura 4:24) "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." (Abu Dawud 2150, also Muslim 3433)

Last edited by juju33312; 05-16-2016 at 10:35 AM.. Reason: added link to video
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