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Old 05-21-2016, 05:01 AM
 
3,169 posts, read 1,050,493 times
Reputation: 289

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
That wasn't your claim that, as you see it, the "various verses" IMPLIES but that "many verses" say that "the Qur'an is easy to understand". That was a lie, and you know it. No verse says, "the Qur'an is easy to understand".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
You can create whatever straw man you want.
Note the purpose of the OP is this:
I provided some verses and mentioned there are many more.
What lie are you talking about?
Lie in the post number 4:
“These mess, confusions and differences in interpretation prove that what Allah stated 'Quran is easy to understand' is wrong and false.”

Repeated lie in the post number 5:
“These mess, confusions and differences in interpretation prove that what Allah stated 'Quran is easy to understand' is wrong and false.”

Allah did not state, "Quran is easy to understand".

Double lie in the post number 10:
"It is Allah who claimed in many verses the Quran is easy to understand."

Allah did not claim ("in many verses"), "the Quran is easy to understand".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
What I meant was the within the whole of the Quran there are many verses when read together generate the point that the "Quran is easy to understand".
That is another lie on your part!

Instead of just admitting your lie, you are trying to cover it with another lie.

At the least, it proves that an unbeliever cannot understand the Qur'an, and is sure to make false claims in ignorance about it, as you have done so here.

If it was only the verses generated the point in your head, you should have stated so and shouldn't have claimed in post 10, "It is Allah who claimed in many verses the Quran is easy to understand".

Continuum, you have been caught red-handed. There is no way you can wriggle out of your blatant lie against Allah. Allah did not claim in "many verses", "the Qur'an is easy to understand".

You made a mess of your claim and only you can own it up to keep your credibility intact in this forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
This is very obvious because my OP refer to 'easy to understand' but I did not provide any 'direct verse' that stated 'the Quran is easy to understand'.
Then you should not have stated that "Allah claimed" in many verses the Quran is easy to understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I did not claim there is a sentence in the Quran that stated 'The Quran is easy to understand'.
Of course you knew it that there is no sentence in the Qur'an that stated "the Qur'an is easy to understand" but you still made the claim, "It is Allah who claimed in many verses the Quran is easy to understand". Now that you have been challenged to quote even one verse in which Allah claimed, " the Qur'an is easy to understand", you are making excuses in vain attempt to wriggle out of the mess you have made for yourself.
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Old 05-21-2016, 05:46 AM
 
2,826 posts, read 1,873,947 times
Reputation: 996
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Allah in the Quran has stated the Quran was revealed in the Arabic Language so that Muslims who are Arabs can read and understand it easily in their own mother tongue. Here are the various verses that support this point;

42:7. [part] And thus we have inspired in thee [O Muhammad] a Lecture in Arabic, that thou mayest warn the mother town and those around it, and mayest warn of a Day of assembling whereof there is no doubt.

46:12. When before it [Quran] there was the Scripture of Moses, an example and a mercy; and [now] this [Quran] is a confirming Scripture in the Arabic language, that it [Quran] may warn those [infidels] who do wrong and bring good tidings for the righteous.

44:58 And We have made (this Scripture) easy in thy language only that they may heed.

54:17 And in truth We have made the Qur'an easy to remember; but is there any that remembereth?
54:22 And in truth We have made the Qur'an easy to remember; but is there any that remembereth?
54:32 And in truth We have made the Qur'an easy to remember; but is there any that remembereth?
54:40 And in truth We have made the Qur'an easy to remember; but is there any that remembereth?

19:97. And We make (this Scripture) easy in thy tongue, (O Muhammad) only that thou mayst bear good tidings therewith unto those [Muslims] who ward off (evil), and warn therewith the froward [willing contrary] folk [infidels].

14:4. And We [Allah] never sent a messenger save [except] with the language of his folk, that he might make (the message) clear for them. Then Allah sendeth whom He will astray, and guideth whom He will. He is the Mighty, the Wise.
I don't dispute the Quran has been remembered by many Hafiz.

However from the many disputes and contentions between Muslims who are expert in Arabic, what Allah claimed the Quran as easy to understand is not true.
Therefore the claim by Allah that the Quran is easy & clear - is not true.
Since a supposedly God will not give statement that are not true, we can infer the Quran which has untruths could only be authored by humans, not a God.

Do you agree with the above points?
If not, why?
Shhhhh. The fact of the matter is the Quran is fallible, it has numerous passages that abrogate earlier passages. I rewrite secular stuff all the time, editing papers or projects. But something claiming to be the word of Allah shouldn't have this.

The Problem of Abrogation in the Quran

The Quran claims to be infallible. But a book that tells us one thing, and in another chapter says "I changed my mind" and followers aren't allowed to challenge this... let's just say I'm glad I'm not Muslim.

Both the idea of abrogation and the idea of infallibility should be done away with. Most other religious books recognize that the follower has to internalize their religion, and they have to be able to study and interpret making infallibility questionable (the Catholic church had a period where the pope was infallible and people weren't able to read the Bible because it was in Latin and this was similarly a mess).
And the idea of abrogation means some of the more violent passages of the Quran have validity, even though saying God told me that we shouldn't wage violent war on Monday, then saying on a Thursday we should means you are making your own rules. I think the later versions of the Quran are simply not valid, and you should read as if one of Muhammad's relatives found his book, wrote the thing about later stuff being more important (it is an author's original thought that is closest to God, any later thought is by definition something someone else convinced them was right, making it in error), and toss those out. The problem with abrogation is that I could "find" (forge) "lost" teachings of Muhammad's, and that could conceivably unwrite previous text. How is that the word of Allah?

Either Allah's word is unchanging, in which the first thing on the subject is the only thing we should accept. Or Allah can change his mind, meaning we should ignore even the most recent passages of the Quran as even these are not a reflection of modern society (we now have LGBT rights in several countries, new tech, and different culture, so we must reevaluate what is right). Same goes for the Bible, either God's word is unchanging (the Edenic code predated the Mosaic code) or God is constantly changing. We must decide, we cannot have "the most recent text is correct but you cannot question."

Last edited by bulmabriefs144; 05-21-2016 at 05:57 AM..
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Old 05-21-2016, 02:04 PM
 
3,169 posts, read 1,050,493 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144 View Post
Shhhhh. The fact of the matter is the Quran is fallible, it has numerous passages that abrogate earlier passages.
No passage of the Qur'an abrogates any other passage of the Qur'an. Every passage is still passage of the Qur'an and must be taken account of with all the other passages on the same issue.
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Old 05-22-2016, 12:56 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,597,945 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Lie in the post number 4:
“These mess, confusions and differences in interpretation prove that what Allah stated 'Quran is easy to understand' is wrong and false.”

Repeated lie in the post number 5:
“These mess, confusions and differences in interpretation prove that what Allah stated 'Quran is easy to understand' is wrong and false.”

Allah did not state, "Quran is easy to understand".

Double lie in the post number 10:
"It is Allah who claimed in many verses the Quran is easy to understand."

Allah did not claim ("in many verses"), "the Quran is easy to understand".

That is another lie on your part!

Instead of just admitting your lie, you are trying to cover it with another lie.

At the least, it proves that an unbeliever cannot understand the Qur'an, and is sure to make false claims in ignorance about it, as you have done so here.

If it was only the verses generated the point in your head, you should have stated so and shouldn't have claimed in post 10, "It is Allah who claimed in many verses the Quran is easy to understand".

Continuum, you have been caught red-handed. There is no way you can wriggle out of your blatant lie against Allah. Allah did not claim in "many verses", "the Qur'an is easy to understand".

You made a mess of your claim and only you can own it up to keep your credibility intact in this forum.

Then you should not have stated that "Allah claimed" in many verses the Quran is easy to understand.

Of course you knew it that there is no sentence in the Qur'an that stated "the Qur'an is easy to understand" but you still made the claim, "It is Allah who claimed in many verses the Quran is easy to understand". Now that you have been challenged to quote even one verse in which Allah claimed, " the Qur'an is easy to understand", you are making excuses in vain attempt to wriggle out of the mess you have made for yourself.
Your comprehension is off key.

When I stated Allah stated the Quran is easy to understand is conditioned upon what I have inferred in the OP, i.e.
Quote:
Allah in the Quran has stated the Quran was revealed in the Arabic Language so that Muslims who are Arabs can read and understand it easily in their own mother tongue. Here are the various verses that support this point;
You are just being petty, childish and nit-picking.

The point is I have read the Quran more than 50 times and the general point is Allah stated within a set of verses the Quran is easy to understand. I am very well aware Allah did not state specifically 'the Quran is easy to understand.'

Point is you are intellectual ignorant, lack refine intellectual experiences and wisdom.
Note this Principle of Charity [nothing to do with donations btw];
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity

Quote:
In philosophy and rhetoric, the principle of charity requires interpreting a speaker's statements to be rational and, in the case of any argument, considering its best, strongest possible interpretation.[1]
In its narrowest sense, the goal of this methodological principle is to avoid attributing irrationality, logical fallacies or falsehoods to the others' statements, when a coherent, rational interpretation of the statements is available.
According to Simon Blackburn[2] "it constrains the interpreter to maximize the truth or rationality in the subject's sayings."
Taking the Principle of Charity [Philosophy] into account, you should have noted the whole context of the OP rather than nitpicking on certain statement and creating straw men out of them.

I understand you are desperate but there is there no need to stoop so low as how you are going about it above.

I suggest you reflect on your blasphemous interpretation of 49:14 by forcing the wrong idea into God's throat. You have a vested interest therein, I don't have any.
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