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Old 07-11-2016, 10:16 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller View Post
that is only one interpretation and there are others
the below Arabic sentence means Who is knocking
من الطارق
من means Who
الطارق means knocking

and it is the one the one that is used in the Holy Quran
Show me which Quran you are referring to.
I refer to 45++ English translations an ONLY one mentioned 'knocking' which is the wrong translation.

I suggest you refer to at least 20 English translations [the more the better] to confirm your point and you will realize you are on the wrong side.

Quote:
copy it and paste it to Google and it will show the below image
Paste to Google?? This is a cheap way to confirm your point.
Here is what the Quranic dictionary say;

(86:1:2) wal-ṭāriqi = and the night comer وَالسَّمَاءِ وَالطَّارِقِ
(86:2:4) l-ṭāriqu = the night comer (is)
The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Quran Dictionary
http://www.ghazali.org/books/wehr-cowan-76.pdf



Quote:
also notice that he Holy Quran mentioned in the third verse something about this star and that Commensurate with the Pulsar
By the heavens and The Knocker.
How will you comprehend what the The Knocker is?
It’s a piercing star.
Wrong again

Note the related roots for 'piercing'

Tha-Qaf-Ba
l-thāqibu الثَّاقِبُ ث ق ب
= a hole, to pass through (a hole), bore/perforate/pierce/puncture, intense (surge), burn/blaze/flame brightly (e.g. as if to pierce through the night), ascend/reach, penetrate, struck/kindle fire, fuel for fire, a man very red, brilliant (can be applied to knowledge), a drill (instrument which perforates).

In the context of 86:1-3 l-thāqibu الثَّاقِبُ ث ق ب refer to piercing brightness, i.e. as if pierce through the night.

Btw, it is big sin to change Allah's words as Allah had accused the Jews and Christians of changing his words.
So you must do thorough research and give careful considerations when interpreting Arabic in the Quran.

Your interpretation of "knocking" is very rare as compare to the common translations [45++] as 'night comer' i.e. the evening or morning star.

Last edited by Continuum; 07-11-2016 at 10:33 PM..
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Old 07-16-2016, 11:52 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post

Btw, it is big sin to change Allah's words as Allah had accused the Jews and Christians of changing his words.
So you must do thorough research and give careful considerations when interpreting Arabic in the Quran.

Your interpretation of "knocking" is very rare as compare to the common translations [45++] as 'night comer' i.e. the evening or morning star.
Allah's words are in Arabic
The difference is in the translation
for example the Arabic word كبير
some one can translate as big and another one can translates as large
but the Arabic word كبير remain the same

The below Arabic word comes from the verb طَّرِقِ similar to the one used in the Holy Quran
مطرقة

try to find its translation and see if it has relation with knocking
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Old 07-16-2016, 09:05 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,581,295 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller View Post
Allah's words are in Arabic
The difference is in the translation
for example the Arabic word كبير
some one can translate as big and another one can translates as large
but the Arabic word كبير remain the same

The below Arabic word comes from the verb طَّرِقِ similar to the one used in the Holy Quran
مطرقة

try to find its translation and see if it has relation with knocking
Here are 50++ English translations of 86:2 and only one mentioned "knocking."
Muhammad Asad And what could make thee conceive what it is that comes in the night?
M. M. Pickthall - Ah, what will tell thee what the Morning Star is!
Shakir And what will make you know what the comer by night is?
Yusuf Ali (Saudi Rev. 1985) And what will explain to thee what the Night-Visitant is?-
Yusuf Ali (Orig. 1938) And what will explain to thee what the Night-Visitant is?-
Dr. Laleh Bakhtiar what will cause thee to recognize what the night visitor is?
Wahiduddin Khan and what could make you know what it is that comes in the night?
T.B.Irving What will make you realize what the Nightcomer is?

[Al-Muntakhab] And you just do not know what the celestial body which makes a strong impression upon the sense of vision is like!
[The Monotheist Group] (2011 Edition) And do you know what the herald is
Abdel Haleem What will explain to you what the night-comer is?
Abdul Majid Daryabadi And what shall make thee know that which the night-comer is?-
Ahmed Ali How will you comprehend what the night star is?
Aisha Bewley And what will convey to you what the Night-Comer is?
Ali ‹nal What enables you to perceive what it is that comes at night?
Ali Quli Qara'i (and what will show you what is the nightly visitor?
Hamid S. Aziz And what shall make you know what the night star is?
Muhammad Mahmoud Ghali And what makes you realize what the Night Visitant is? (Or: "The Morning Star; literally: The Rapper).
Muhammad Sarwar Do you know what al-tariq is?
Muhammad Taqi Usmani __and what may let you know what the Night-Comer is?
Shabbir Ahmed And what will enlighten you as to what the Tariq is!
Syed Vickar Ahamed And what will explain to you what is the Visitor by the night —
Umm Muhammad (Sahih International) And what can make you know what is the night comer?
Farook Malik and what will explain to you what the visitant by night is?
Dr. Munir Munshey And how would you know what the night star is?
Dr. Mohammad Tahir-ul-Qadri And what do you know what the Nightly (discernable) Visitant is?
Dr. Kamal Omar And what made you realise what At-Tariq is?
Talal A. Itani (new translation) But what will let you know what at-Tariq is?
Bilal Muhammad (2013 Edition) And what will explain to you what the night-visitant is?
Maududi what do you know what the night-visitor is?
Ali Bakhtiari Nejad And do you know what the evening star is?
[The Monotheist Group] (2013 Edition) And do you know what the herald is?
Mohammad Shafi And what do you understand what the Taariq is?
Bijan Moeinian and the shining star of the morning that nobody know its nature and…
Faridul Haque And have you understood what the nightly arriver is?
Hasan Al-Fatih Qaribullah What could let you know what the nightly comer is!
Maulana Muhammad Ali And what will make thee know what the Comer by night is?
Muhammad Ahmed - Samira And what made you know/informed you what the Night Comer/star (Morning Star is)?
Sher Ali And what should make thee know what the Morning Star is?
Rashad Khalifa Do you know what Al-Taareq is?
Ahmed Raza Khan (Barelvi) And have you known anything, what the night comer is?
Amatul Rahman Omar And what should make you know what the night-visitant is?
Muhsin Khan & Muhammad al-Hilali And what will make you to know what At-Tariq (night-comer) is?
Arthur John Arberry And what shall teach thee what is the night-star?
Edward Henry Palmer And what shall make thee know what the night star is?-
George Sale But what shall cause thee to understand what that which appeareth by night is?
John Medows Rodwell But who shall teach thee what the night-comer is?
N J Dawood (draft) Would that you knew what the nightly visitant is!
Sayyid Qutb Would that you knew what the night visitor is!
Torres Al Haneef (partial translation) "Ah, what wil tell you what the night visitor is?"
Sayyed Abbas Sadr-Ameli And what will explain to thee what the Night-visitant is?
Mir Aneesuddin And what will make you realize what Taariq is ?

Safi - Kaskas what do you know about the knocking star?
99% of the above translators many of them are expert Arabic Scholars and they do not translate as 'knocking.'

Only Saf & Kaskas translated Al-Tariq as "knocking star."
One of the above is a Christian.
I believe they surveyed from the root words and pick 'knocking star' for whatever the reason.

The fact is the Quran is not a Scientific book and there was no intention from Allah that Allah want to prove Allah know Science. Otherwise Allah should have mentioned all the other critical scientific discoveries that are critical for humanity to advance.

It is only because of the stupid ulterior motives of SOME Muslims to feel good that Allah know Science and Muhammad did not so the Quran must be from Allah that these Muslims will twist all whatever words to fit their purpose. Such twisting of the meanings of the words by SOME Muslims is an embarrassment to Islam and Allah.
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Old 07-18-2016, 09:11 AM
 
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..when a star has consumed all its fuel collapses in on itself, and becomes invisible with infinite density and an immensely powerful magnetic field
and their gravitational pull is so strong that light is unable to escape from them


The science just discovered that in the 20th century and called this phenomena The Black Hole



but the Holy Quran mentioned it more than 1400 years ago

"So verily I swear by the hidden stars
that move and vacuum" The Holy Quran 81.15:16 A literal translation of the verses .





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-KKJeZs8eg


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Old 07-21-2016, 09:47 PM
 
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By the heavens and The Knocker.
How will you comprehend what The Knocker is?
Itís a piercing star.
There is not a soul but over it is a keeper.
So let man consider of what he is created:
He is created of water pouring forth,
Coming from between the back and the ribs.
Most surely He is able to return him (to life).
On the day when hidden things shall be made manifest,
He shall have neither strength nor helper. The Noble Quran. 86.1:9

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlGUaI9WKWI
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Old 07-24-2016, 04:25 PM
 
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Professor Keith Moore talking about Quran and embryology


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUFk2BkiGOQ


Dr. Keith L. Moore At a conference in Cairo he presented a research paper and stated:
"It has been a great pleasure for me to help clarify statements in the Qur'an about human development.
It is clear to me that these statements must have come to Muhammad from God, or Allah,
because most of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries later.
This proves to me that Muhammad must have been a messenger of God, or Allah."

Then We made the seed a clot,
then We made the clot a lump of flesh,
then We made (in) the lump of flesh bones,
then We clothed the bones with flesh,
then We caused it to grow into another creation,
so blessed be Allah, the best of the creators. Holy Quran 23:14



Question to Dr. Keith L. Moore: "Are you are a Muslim?" - YouTube
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Old 07-30-2016, 07:50 AM
 
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in order to know the human development inside the womb,

science spend huge time of study and observing from the time of the seed drop to the time of the birth,

these phases of development is designed by Allah and Allah described them in the Quran for more than 1400 years ago
Then We made him a small seed in a firm resting-place,
Then We made the seed a clot,
then We made the clot a lump of flesh,
then We made (in) the lump of flesh bones,
then We clothed the bones with flesh,
then We caused it to grow into another creation,
so blessed be Allah, the best of the creators. The Holy Quran 23.13:14

‫
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Old 08-10-2016, 03:05 PM
 
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more amazing miracles in the Holy Quran



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiPXDye63Bc

And when the heaven splitteth asunder and becometh rosy like red hide .
Which is it, of the favours of your Lord, that ye deny . (55:37-38) The Holy Quran




This is an end of stars life as it was taken from Nasa Hubble Telescope.
it look s like a rose

the sky will look like rose like paint
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Old 08-10-2016, 03:19 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller View Post
more amazing miracles in the Holy Quran



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiPXDye63Bc

And when the heaven splitteth asunder and becometh rosy like red hide .
Which is it, of the favours of your Lord, that ye deny . (55:37-38) The Holy Quran




This is an end of stars life as it was taken from Nasa Hubble Telescope.
it look s like a rose

the sky will look like rose like paint


"There are, however, several problems with the Muslim claims. The first one will become obvious when comparing a number of translations of Surah 55:37:

And when the heaven splitteth asunder and becometh rosy like red hide - (Pickthall)
When the sky is rent asunder, and it becomes red like ointment: (Yusuf Ali)
And when the heaven splits up and turns crimson like red hide (Nooruddin)
And when the heaven is rent asunder, and then becomes red like red hide. (Shakir)
When the sky disintegrates, and turns rose colored like paint. (Khalifa)
And when the sky is rent asunder, and becomes red like [burning] oil (Asad)
Then when the heaven is rent asunder, and it becomes rosy or red like red oil, or red hide - (Hilali and Khan)
When the sky splits asunder and reddens like a rose or stained leather (Dawud)
And when the heaven shall be cleft asunder, and become rose red, like stained leather (Rodwell)
And when heaven is torn asunder, and turns crimson like red leather (Arberry)
And when the heaven is rent asunder and become rosy red - (melting) like grease! (Palmer)
And when the heaven shall be rent in sunder, and shall become [red as] a rose, [and shall melt] like ointment: (Sale)

The issue is that the crucial word in the Arabic text is so obscure that we do not even know what it exactly means, and so translators make some educated guesses. Can we really call a statement of unclear meaning a scientific miracle? There seems to be a general agreement that this verse talks about some kind of a red color, similar to the COLOR of a rose or stained leather or hot oil, but most of the translators do NOT say that the sky will have the FORM of a rose or look like a rose. However, this is obviously the point of connecting the verse with the image of this star in most of the Muslim articles. They claim that this event is mentioned in the Qur'an.

The authors of the translations used in the various Muslim articles referred to above remain unidentified. They render Surah 55:37 for example like this:

And if the sky is torn apart to become a rose as in a painting, (Source)

When the sky splits apart, and turns rose-like... (Source)

When the sky is torn apart, so it was (like) a red rose, like ointment. (most of the pages, e.g. this one)

Apparently, these Muslims have adjusted the translation to fit the image, but what is their justification for doing so? Would it not be a matter of intellectual integrity to state that we really do not know what the word exactly means? An minor issue is that this amateurish translation doesn't make much sense because of inconsistent tenses: "When the sky is (present tense) ..., so it was (past tense) ...". The consequence of something happening in the present (or future) can hardly be an effect in the past. This violates the scientific law of cause and effect.

Furthermore, it is important to observe that the verse clearly says "when the sky is torn apart", not "when one star loses part of its substance". The image of this star having shed its outer layers was only possible because of a very powerful telescope since it is so small and so faint and represents only a very tiny dot on the sky. Thus we have to ask: Since (a) the sky has so far obviously NOT been torn apart, and (b) even this particular star is still there and not torn apart either (as one can clearly see in the center of the image), WHY would anyone suppose that this verse of the Qur'an talks about the event captured in this particular image? And if it doesn't, where is the miracle?

The problem of applying the image of only one star (among billions of stars) to the whole sky was recognized by one Muslim author, and so he writes:

The above photograph of the exploding Nebula raises a distinct possibility that the explosion at some very early stage of the big bang might have looked like the photograph of the Nebula. In that case the Qur'anic verse in Sura Ar-Rahman is yet another reference to the big bang. Notice that the verse in Sura Ar-Rahman says that "when the sky is clove apart ..." and not when "a star is torn apart ..". The reference to sky rather than a star suggests an explosion involving the whole universe as in the big bang. (Source)

This reasoning is not valid either for several reasons:

First, the verse of the Qur'an clearly talks about a future event, even about the end of this World (Judgment Day, cf. the article Does the Qur'an Speak About a "Lifecycle of the Universe"?) not the beginning of the world. Second, one can only tear apart a sky that already exists. Before the Big Bang, there was no sky to tear apart. Thus, this explanation does not make much sense scientifically either. Third, according to the theories of astrophysics, our universe is several billions of years old and there are several billions of years to come before it may die. Thus, we are currently somewhere in the middle of its life. How can a verse from the Qur'an speaking about the end of the world combined with an image of one star taken in the middle of the life of the universe be evidence that the Qur'an teaches that in the very beginning the universe started with the Big Bang? Such logic is beyond me."

The Qur'an and the Oily Red Rose Nebula
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Old 08-10-2016, 03:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller View Post
in order to know the human development inside the womb,

science spend huge time of study and observing from the time of the seed drop to the time of the birth,

these phases of development is designed by Allah and Allah described them in the Quran for more than 1400 years ago
Then We made him a small seed in a firm resting-place,
Then We made the seed a clot,
then We made the clot a lump of flesh,
then We made (in) the lump of flesh bones,
then We clothed the bones with flesh,
then We caused it to grow into another creation,
so blessed be Allah, the best of the creators. The Holy Quran 23.13:14

‫
Qur'an and Science: Embryology


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4X9VZZv9O8A

Give me ONE accredited university that uses the quran in their science classes as a teaching book.
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