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Old 05-27-2016, 12:03 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I intended to say.
It does imply lowest place on earth.
I believe when [1000+ years ago] the Quran was first written the intention was to indicate 'a very low place nearby' because physically and common sense revealed that place is very low relative to other places.

In the present [last 50 years] actual geographical research has proven the lowest place on Earth as a fact is near to Mecca as indicated in the OP.
The lowest point on Earth.
The Dead Sea Depression is an extensive area of land that is below sea level. It contains the Dead Sea, the Sea of Galilee, a portion of the Jordan River, large areas of cultivated land and many communities.
Lowest Land Points Below Sea Level Map | Depression Elevations
Whether that battle mentioned in the Quran actually took place in that specific location, there is no proofs to indicate so.

Those translators [there are a few amongst the 46 I know] who translate 'the lowest point on Earth' are doing it with the benefit of hindsight and influenced by confirmation bias.

[The Monotheist Group] (2011 Edition]
30:3 At the lowest point on the Earth. But after their victory, they will be defeated.

Ali Bakhtiari Nejad
30:3 in the lowest part of the earth, and they are going to be victorious after their defeat
I believe to translate as 'the lowest point on the Earth' based on a very LOOSE term is pure deceit done after the fact is known.

It would be more appropriate based on the overall context of the Quran to convey it as follows; 'a very low place nearby' because in general the Quran do not claim records of physical things in Earth, such as the highest mountain, the largest desert, the longest river, the largest ocean, etc. even when Allah is supposedly omniscient - all knowing.

This claim that the verse refer to 'the lowest point on the Earth' to match the fact is purely a psychological exercise to prop up the low self-esteem of SOME [not all] Muslims, that only Allah knows the truth. But why only this and some miserable matching of facts?
If Allah is all knowing Allah should have stated more facts that are very specific that can easily be verified like the highest mountain, the longest river, the largest ocean, etc.

The claim of this OP is merely a farce.
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Old 05-27-2016, 12:10 AM
 
1,883 posts, read 1,651,915 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Where did this battle take place?

.....a decisive battle between The Byzantine Empire and the Persian Empire was fought in the area around the Dead Sea.... http://www.islamreligion.com/article...oint-on-earth/
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Old 05-27-2016, 12:44 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 661,767 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller View Post
.....a decisive battle between The Byzantine Empire and the Persian Empire was fought in the area around the Dead Sea.... http://www.islamreligion.com/article...oint-on-earth/
Verses says that Roman has defeated in "the lowest earth."
Commentators interpreted as meaning the nearest land of Sham to Arab countries, or the closest to the land of Sham Persia. Any region on political boundaries.
And the Levant referred to in the Koran the word of a lot of land, as in Surah al-Isra, and the story of teh children of Israel.

It came the followers of the issue of the scientific miracles and said that the lowest mean deeper or lower, and that the lowest place on the earth's crust - the land - is the Dead Sea (between Palestine and Jordan for now), and then pasted this interpretation issue of defeat at the hands of Roman Knight.

This led to a great misfortune in my opinion! Tlagafh where Christians Ishnon it .. because it is contrary to the facts and history.


Prophecy was fulfilled that the Greek victory over the Persians after the revelation of the verses of Surah Rum Meccan .. There was victory in a few years, any time between 3 to 9
But the defeat of the Romans were not in the Dead Sea area already! But in the famous battle, the Battle of Antioch, in 613 AD
And Antioch, now in Turkey, near the Syrian. Very far from the area of ​​"deeper" land.

For this proliferation of interpretations of the followers of the scientific miracles leads to a distortion of the meanings of the Qur'an in the minds of Muslims, giving suspicions ready for the enemies of Islam.
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Old 05-27-2016, 12:50 AM
 
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But here I will put the idea of anyone who wants to research the topic in the future ..
Do Quranic text says that the past several years period starting from the date of the defeat of the Romans, or from the date of its verses the same? !!
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Old 05-27-2016, 01:05 AM
 
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Prosecutors miracles in verse --odny earth

These are published on Facebook Read the author of the article did not name I am sorryThe battle that took place between the Persians and the Romans and defeated the Persians in Jerusalem took place in 614 m [2] before the migration of Muhammad to the city eight years 622 m. 5. Impact tells us the story of Abu Bakr bet the Quraish infidels and Medathm Roman triumph in six, seven, and nine years. Abu Bakr lost his bet, but the Romans were victorious in the seventh or ninth year of their defeat, according to the impact. 6-tell us Muslim historians that the victory the Romans over the Persians was at the battle of Nineveh, which occurred 2/12/627 AD This means that the loss of the Roman battle was 618 and not 614 (627-9 = 618) [3] It is the closest thing to occupy the Persians Alexandria in Egypt [4]. 7. also tells us the impact that Muhammad received the news of the time of the Roman triumph Khudaibiya [5]. It is the year 627 AD, which corresponds to the Roman history 6. 8. says Ibn Kathir in his interpretation of the Ar-Rum: "I got these verses while defeated Sabor Persian king on the Levant and the Allagha island country and the far reaches of the country's Roman forced Emperor Heraclius even prestige to Constantinople and besieged it" did not give us a specific location. 9. Most interpreters of the Qur'an brings to this fight got in between Odhirat and Bosra.
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Old 05-27-2016, 01:12 AM
 
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Mohammed was one of the companions of Salman the Persian and Addas Alninoa think
Mohammed was known as the military balance of power and this is not a prophecy, not a scientific Ijaz
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Old 05-27-2016, 09:39 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 751,713 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller View Post
Selected miracles from the final Holy Book The Quran
The Quran is The final Holy Book From Allah to all mankind
and it is considered the constitution and the Laws that must be comply by every one in this world
it is more 1400 years old and it also contain stories and kind of history events and hints and signs to scientific facts
these scientific facts are considered miracles because it could not be told by any human being at that time 1400 years ago,

also they are considered proofs against non believers who do not believe in the creator or those who do not follow Islam .





in this place the The Romans was defeated by the Persians in about 1400 years ago.
and this place is the Lowest Place On Earth.

and the Quran mentioned that it is the Lowest Place On Earth in the following verse.
Alif, Lam, Mim.
The Romans have been defeated
in the lowest land....................... The Noble Quran. 30.1:3
I am curious....do you now understand that this is no 'miracle' and that the Quran does NOT say anything about this being the lowest place on the planet earth?
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Old 05-27-2016, 09:04 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
I am curious....do you now understand that this is no 'miracle' and that the Quran does NOT say anything about this being the lowest place on the planet earth?
the miracle relates to this have been fortold in the Qur'an before it took place and it took place during it was said it would happen.

“The Romans have been defeated in the lowest land, but after their defeat they will soon be victorious. Within three to nine years. The decision of the matter, before and after, is with God.” (Quran 30:2-4)

These verses, above, were revealed around 620 C.E, almost 7 years after the severe defeat of the Christian Byzantines at the hands of the idolater Persians in 613 – 614 C.E. Yet it was related in the verses that the Byzantines would shortly be victorious. In-fact, Byzantine had been so heavily defeated that it seemed impossible for the Empire to even maintain its very existence, let alone be victorious again.

Not only the Persians, but also the Avars, Slavs and Lombards (located to the North and West of the Byzantine Empire) posed serious threats to the Byzantine Empire’s sovereignty. The Avars had come as far as the walls of Constantinople and had nearly captured the Emperor, himself. Many governors had revolted against Emperor Heraclius, and the Empire was on the point of collapse. Mesopotamia, Syria, Palestine, Egypt and Armenia, which had earlier belonged to the Byzantine Empire, were invaded by the Persians. In short, everyone was expecting the Byzantine Empire to be destroyed, but right at that moment the first verses of the chapter, The Romans, were revealed announcing that the Byzantines would regain triumph in a few years time. Shortly after this revelation, the Byzantine Emperor proceeded to order the gold and silver in churches to be melted and turned into money in order both to meet the demanding expenses of the army, and finance his drive to regain the lost territories.

Around 7 years after the revelation of the first verses of The Romans, in December, 627 C.E, a decisive battle between The Byzantine Empire and the Persian Empire was fought in the area around the Dead Sea,[2] and this time it was the Byzantine army which surprisingly defeated the Persians. A few months later, the Persians had to make an agreement with the Byzantines which obliged them to return the territories they had taken from them. So, in the end, the victory of the Romans proclaimed by God in the Quran miraculously came through.
The Victory of the Romans and the Lowest Point on Earth - The Religion of Islam

Side Note: It makes no difference if the correct translation of alardi is land or Earth, either way the prophecy came true.
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Old 05-27-2016, 09:11 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 751,713 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
the miracle relates to this have been fortold in the Qur'an before it took place and it took place during it was said it would happen.

“The Romans have been defeated in the lowest land, but after their defeat they will soon be victorious. Within three to nine years. The decision of the matter, before and after, is with God.” (Quran 30:2-4)

These verses, above, were revealed around 620 C.E, almost 7 years after the severe defeat of the Christian Byzantines at the hands of the idolater Persians in 613 – 614 C.E. Yet it was related in the verses that the Byzantines would shortly be victorious. In-fact, Byzantine had been so heavily defeated that it seemed impossible for the Empire to even maintain its very existence, let alone be victorious again.

Not only the Persians, but also the Avars, Slavs and Lombards (located to the North and West of the Byzantine Empire) posed serious threats to the Byzantine Empire’s sovereignty. The Avars had come as far as the walls of Constantinople and had nearly captured the Emperor, himself. Many governors had revolted against Emperor Heraclius, and the Empire was on the point of collapse. Mesopotamia, Syria, Palestine, Egypt and Armenia, which had earlier belonged to the Byzantine Empire, were invaded by the Persians. In short, everyone was expecting the Byzantine Empire to be destroyed, but right at that moment the first verses of the chapter, The Romans, were revealed announcing that the Byzantines would regain triumph in a few years time. Shortly after this revelation, the Byzantine Emperor proceeded to order the gold and silver in churches to be melted and turned into money in order both to meet the demanding expenses of the army, and finance his drive to regain the lost territories.

Around 7 years after the revelation of the first verses of The Romans, in December, 627 C.E, a decisive battle between The Byzantine Empire and the Persian Empire was fought in the area around the Dead Sea,[2] and this time it was the Byzantine army which surprisingly defeated the Persians. A few months later, the Persians had to make an agreement with the Byzantines which obliged them to return the territories they had taken from them. So, in the end, the victory of the Romans proclaimed by God in the Quran miraculously came through.
The Victory of the Romans and the Lowest Point on Earth - The Religion of Islam

Side Note: It makes no difference if the correct translation of alardi is land or Earth, either way the prophecy came true.
OK, the OP was talking about the issue of the battle taking place at the lowest place on earth. Go back and read the first post. THAT is what I want to discuss. And it certainly does matter if the correct translation of alardi is land or Earth. I see you have understood nothing I said, or you are looking for a red herring.
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Old 05-27-2016, 09:48 PM
 
1,883 posts, read 1,651,915 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post

...... So, in the end, the victory of the Romans proclaimed by God in the Quran miraculously came through...
.


Thank you Woodrow LI, you have highlighted the second miracle in the same verse.
" in the lowest land, but after their defeat they will soon be victorious"
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