U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-28-2016, 07:03 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 751,713 times
Reputation: 435

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
My point was that since Arabic does not have capital letter Prope Nouns are designated by pronunciation difference. The Qur'an is pronouncing it as alardi which in English is the name Earth with a capital E, to use it to mean the earth (not as a name), the pronunciation is al'ardi a pause between al and ardi.
Rubbish.

Here are the alternate translations.

land
أرض, قطعة أرض, بلد, يابسة, منطقة, بر
ground
سطح الأرض, أرض, أساس, سبب, تربة, أراضي
soil
تربة, أرض, تراب, بلد, أرض زراعية, وطن
territory
إقليم, منطقة, أرض, مقاطعة, قطر
earth
أرض, تراب, تربة, اليابسة, ثرى, بسيطة
grounds
أساس, أراضي, أرض
floor
طابق, أرضية, أرض, دور, الحد الأدنى, قعر
terrain
أرض, منطقة, بقعة, حقل من حقول المعرفة
site
موقع, في الموقع, مكان, موضع, مركز, أرض
underworld
الجحيم, أرض, عالم الرذيلة والإجرام, الجانب المقابل للأرض
topsoil
أرض, أرض زراعية
amphitheatre
مدرج, أرض

Not a thing about planets!! And if you look on the google website, LAND is the popular translation.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-28-2016, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,284,120 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Rubbish.

Here are the alternate translations.

land
أرض, قطعة أرض, بلد, يابسة, منطقة, بر
ground
سطح الأرض, أرض, أساس, سبب, تربة, أراضي
soil
تربة, أرض, تراب, بلد, أرض زراعية, وطن
territory
إقليم, منطقة, أرض, مقاطعة, قطر
earth
أرض, تراب, تربة, اليابسة, ثرى, بسيطة
grounds
أساس, أراضي, أرض
floor
طابق, أرضية, أرض, دور, الحد الأدنى, قعر
terrain
أرض, منطقة, بقعة, حقل من حقول المعرفة
site
موقع, في الموقع, مكان, موضع, مركز, أرض
underworld
الجحيم, أرض, عالم الرذيلة والإجرام, الجانب المقابل للأرض
topsoil
أرض, أرض زراعية
amphitheatre
مدرج, أرض

Not a thing about planets!! And if you look on the google website, LAND is the popular translation.
I also know that the Arabic Name for the Earth is alardi, which is how it is pronounced in the Qur'am. Both alardi and al'ardi are spelled the same. The difference is in the pronunciation.
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-28-2016, 07:43 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 751,713 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I also know that the Arabic Name for the Earth is alardi, which is how it is pronounced in the Qur'am. Both alardi and al'ardi are spelled the same. The difference is in the pronunciation.
Do you agree you were wrong to say:
"It (The quran) does say lowest place on Earth"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-28-2016, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,284,120 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Do you agree you were wrong to say:
"It (The quran) does say lowest place on Earth"
I will agree that there are multiple translations of the word al Ardi. When pronunced as alardi and not as al Ardi (2 words) it is the Arbic name for Earth not the generic word earth.

the Qur'an does pronounce it as Alardi as can be seen in any transliteration:

Fee adna alardi wahum min baAAdi ghalabihim sayaghliboona

or by listening to any recitation it will be at about the 12 second point if the reciter is reciting at the proper speed. I can not hear but this reciter is well known for his tajweed (Proper recitation)

__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-28-2016, 09:26 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 751,713 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I will agree that there are multiple translations of the word al Ardi. When pronunced as alardi and not as al Ardi (2 words) it is the Arbic name for Earth not the generic word earth.

the Qur'an does pronounce it as Alardi as can be seen in any transliteration:

Fee adna alardi wahum min baAAdi ghalabihim sayaghliboona

or by listening to any recitation it will be at about the 12 second point if the reciter is reciting at the proper speed. I can not hear but this reciter is well known for his tajweed (Proper recitation)



Do you agree you were wrong to say:
"It (The quran) does say lowest place on Earth"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-28-2016, 09:54 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 661,767 times
Reputation: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
My point was that since Arabic does not have capital letter Prope Nouns are designated by pronunciation difference. The Qur'an is pronouncing it as alardi which in English is the name Earth with a capital E, to use it to mean the earth (not as a name), the pronunciation is al'ardi a pause between al and ardi.
1-Ibn Battuta traveled the world from below to a maximum of: - from the nearest place to what is beyond.
2- Lower than the jugular vein. (Eg): Very soon, imminent
3-So do not count a minimum:
The closest Tjoroa not, or do not abound Aaalkm
Surat: women, verse:
أَدْنَى أَدْنَى
اسم دنو أَدْنَى (the) nearestadnā
The sense closest
He says in An-Najm:

[SIZE=4][SIZE=4]قال تعالى في سورة النجم:
"ثُمَّ دَنَا فَتَدَلَّى (8) فَكَانَ قَابَ قَوْسَيْنِ أَوْ أَدْنَى (9)"
[/SIZE]
[/SIZE]
It is a rhetorical Qur'anic expression indicates the severity of approaching the sense of "is very close."Pay attention to these
The slightest word meaning the nearest
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-28-2016, 10:26 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,284,120 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Do you agree you were wrong to say:
"It (The quran) does say lowest place on Earth"
How can I agree with that when the exact words are


فِي أَدْنَى الْأَرْضِ وَهُم مِّن بَعْدِ غَلَبِهِمْ سَيَغْلِبُونَ (30:3)

Fee adna alardi wahum min baAAdi ghalabihim sayaghliboona

fee= In

Adna = Lowest

alardi = Earth---Not pronounced al ardi which would be the earth

In Lowest Earth ( capitalized Earth designated by the pronunciation of alardi as a single word--a name not generic earth)
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-28-2016, 11:51 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,583,862 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
How can I agree with that when the exact words are


فِي أَدْنَى الْأَرْضِ وَهُم مِّن بَعْدِ غَلَبِهِمْ سَيَغْلِبُونَ (30:3)

Fee adna alardi wahum min baAAdi ghalabihim sayaghliboona

fee= In

Adna = Lowest

alardi = Earth---Not pronounced al ardi which would be the earth

In Lowest Earth ( capitalized Earth designated by the pronunciation of alardi as a single word--a name not generic earth)
I noted all other cases where "adna" is used in the Quran, it is never used in the extreme record setting sense.
It is either lesser, lower, nearer, etc. but never the lowest, nearest, the least of all, and the likes.

Therefore "adna" in 30:3 is most appropriate to be translated as 'lower' rather than 'lowest' and in accord with its main purpose to inspire the Muslims then to go back to battle after any defeat.

The Quran is not authored by a God [which do not exists] and there is no way the people who authored the Quran would have known that place is the Lowest Point on Earth [as a record of geography] during the 7th century or even till the 20th century.

The purpose of 30:1-3 was to inspire the Muslims then to keep fighting in the event of any defeat [Battle of Uhud 625AD], not to prove it refer to the 'Lowest point on Earth.'

To match "Fee adna al-ardi" in 30:3 to 'the lowest point on Earth" is a farce and scam to reinforce the Quran was authored by Allah who is the Only entity who knew that fact then in the 7th Century. This is the same scam on the proofs of matching Quranic verses to scientific discoveries.

Last edited by Continuum; 05-29-2016 at 12:07 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-29-2016, 03:06 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,284,120 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I noted all other cases where "adna" is used in the Quran, it is never used in the extreme record setting sense.
It is either lesser, lower, nearer, etc. but never the lowest, nearest, the least of all, and the likes.

Therefore "adna" in 30:3 is most appropriate to be translated as 'lower' rather than 'lowest' and in accord with its main purpose to inspire the Muslims then to go back to battle after any defeat.

The Quran is not authored by a God [which do not exists] and there is no way the people who authored the Quran would have known that place is the Lowest Point on Earth [as a record of geography] during the 7th century or even till the 20th century.

The purpose of 30:1-3 was to inspire the Muslims then to keep fighting in the event of any defeat [Battle of Uhud 625AD], not to prove it refer to the 'Lowest point on Earth.'

To match "Fee adna al-ardi" in 30:3 to 'the lowest point on Earth" is a farce and scam to reinforce the Quran was authored by Allah who is the Only entity who knew that fact then in the 7th Century. This is the same scam on the proofs of matching Quranic verses to scientific discoveries.

The Arabic word for low is Safali, Lower is Adna and lowest is also Adna

Unlike the Indo-European languages, Arabic is a diglossia language. Meaning the Written language does not correspond to the spoken language. a somewhat complex concept when one is primarily familiar with indo-European languages. Basically what it means is the pronunciation defines the word not the spelling. Unlike English you can not sound out the pronunciation of a word by the letters. This might explain it better than I can.

Quote:
4. Diglossia

Diglossia refers to the fact that Arabs read and write one form of language (the so-called "high" form), but for everyday spoken communication with each other they speak language variants that are substantially different. Moreover, the spoken vernacular (or dialect) varies from region to region in the Arab world, and although some geographically close vernaculars are mutually intelligible, those separated by vast distances (such as, for example, Moroccan and Kuwaiti) are normally not. These spoken forms have evolved over more than a millennium to accommodate the needs of everyday existence, and are vital, sophisticated, complex, living languages; however, they are not considered appropriate for written communication and therefore are not written down. This means that the spoken variants are free to evolve and adapt in their vocabulary, grammar and style, whereas the grammatical rules for the written language remain essentially as they were in the seventh and eighth centuries, A.D. It also means that the gap between the written and spoken forms is considerable and increases as time goes on. Native Arabic speakers function within a continuum of linguistic competence that encompasses an extensive range of actual performance. This range of competence is, of course, acquired over a long period of time that includes both formal and informal learning experiences. In establishing an Arabic program, in training Arabic teachers, and in devising goals of instruction, methodologies, and in choosing pedagogical materials, diglossia must be kept in mind. A fact of life in the Arab world is that there is dialect diversity and divergence between written and spoken forms of the language. Both forms are necessary for full communicative competence.

https://arabic.georgetown.edu/about/about-arabic/afl
The point being that pronunciation is very important and you are not going to get the pronunciation from reading. You almost need to know what is written before you read it, as you can not tell the pronunciation of a word from reading it. and without the pronunciation you will not know the meaning. Nearly every Arabic word has many meanings each meaning having the same spelling but a different pronunciation. Often there does not seem to be any relationship between the different meanings.

Unrelated Trivia: When I lived in Morocco I found the Moroccans had an interesting concept of time. basically there is only one day. the day is interrupted by periodic episodes of darkness. to ask somebody to do some thing is 2 days was essentially not understood you had to phrase it as after 2 nights. I do not know if that is unique in Morocco, but it is the only country I found it to be common in. Morocco is the Muslim Nation I lived in most often both as US military and several time as a Christian Evangelist. (Usually about a month at a time except during my military years, got to spend 2 years there then. I have a Son-in-law from Morocco. One of the chances I get to speak Darija is when I see him, which is rare. Been over 10 years since I last saw him.
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-29-2016, 03:15 AM
 
1,883 posts, read 1,651,915 times
Reputation: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
1-Ibn Battuta traveled the world from below to a maximum of: - from the nearest place to what is beyond.
2- Lower than the jugular vein. (Eg): Very soon, imminent
3-So do not count a minimum:
The closest Tjoroa not, or do not abound Aaalkm
Surat: women, verse:
أَدْنَى أَدْنَى
اسم دنو أَدْنَى (the) nearestadnā
The sense closest
He says in An-Najm:

[SIZE=4][SIZE=4]قال تعالى في سورة النجم:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]"ثُمَّ دَنَا فَتَدَلَّى (8) فَكَانَ قَابَ قَوْسَيْنِ أَوْ أَدْنَى (9)"[/SIZE][/SIZE]
It is a rhetorical Qur'anic expression indicates the severity of approaching the sense of "is very close."Pay attention to these
The slightest word meaning the nearest



أَدْنَى can mean near or low or lower or lowest
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top