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Old 05-25-2016, 06:54 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 751,713 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
No verse of the Qur'an has been abrogated. Each verse still applies or else it won't be in the Qur'an today.
The Quran says differently.

Quran 2:106
We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth [one] better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent?

Well, if allah had to abrogate verses when he think up something better then he's not all that competent over all things.
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Old 05-25-2016, 09:06 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 661,767 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Christianity hasn't adopted the "Ten Commandments". Christianity (at least the majority Christians) has made Jesus their God (one of the three persons in Trinity). This is not adopting even the first Commandment. There would have been no Crusades if they had really believed in "do not kill" as the moral maxim.
Next oldest illustration
Ten Commandments are the most important teachings of the Torah
The first commandment
God is one(See Genesis so you know this commandment)
The second commandment, Thou shalt not kill
And Christ, it is added to the first commandment of love of the word of God loves man loves
But the Crusades can be discussed in a separate thread
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Old 05-25-2016, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,284,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
Next oldest illustration
Ten Commandments are the most important teachings of the Torah
The first commandment
God is one(See Genesis so you know this commandment)
The second commandment, Thou shalt not kill
And Christ, it is added to the first commandment of love of the word of God loves man loves
But the Crusades can be discussed in a separate thread
The 10 commandments are a misunderstanding of the Torah. In Judaism there are 613 commandments. Arraigned in 10 categories. those 10 Categories are what Christians are calling the 10 Commandments. but they fully reject all the commandments they contained.
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Old 05-25-2016, 09:34 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 661,767 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The 10 commandments are a misunderstanding of the Torah. In Judaism there are 613 commandments. Arraigned in 10 categories. those 10 Categories are what Christians are calling the 10 Commandments. but they fully reject all the commandments they contained.
Thank you
I know this is off topic
But allow me
Ask you what is the source of your information it 613 Commandments
The first is the Ten given by Moses to his people and is fixed
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Old 05-25-2016, 09:52 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 661,767 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
The Quran says differently.

Quran 2:106
We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth [one] better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent?

Well, if allah had to abrogate verses when he think up something better then he's not all that competent over all things.
Review al-nask( canceled ) must be well
verse sword canceled the verse of peace
And copies mean revocation or removal or cancellation. And copies of thing, was undone, remove or Mahah or canceled. Duplicator agent noun, eliminates thing and replace it. Hence the convention (duplicator and copied) in the Qur'an that which he wrote dozens of books over the past centuries came. Which singled him Imam Al-Suyuti Shafei special chapter in his book (the Koran proficiency in science) and it says, the imams said: No one may interpret the book of Allah until he knows it duplicator and copied. The judge said: You know the copyist of the copied? He said: No. He said, destroyed and decimated. In this type issues. First Full copies sense of removal, and him saying: (Vinsch God, what then throw Satan governs verses). In other words, Switch: (If turned things around a verse in place of another). The scholars differed told: Do not copy the Koran but Koran, meaning: (the copying of verse or Nnasseha distanced fine them or the like). There was only copying the Holy Year, also because it is from God. The Almighty said: (We speak of passion). - See more at:
Number of verses abrogated by the verse sword alone, some of them said they copied one hundred and fourteen verse, and the others said: even copied one hundred and twenty-four verses. Suyuti said in the book of proficiency in the science of the Quran: (Ibn al-Arabi said: everything in the Koran of forgiveness for the infidels and Administrating and symptoms and to stop them, abrogated verse of the sword <When the sacred months then kill the idolaters> verse copied one hundred and twenty-four
- souret elbakara
Verse 62. (Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians and Alsabian of believing in God and the Last Day and does righteous deeds, they have their reward with their Lord, and no fear nor shall they grieve.) Abrogated verse (29 repentance). -This talk of Muslim Scholars
verse sword repeal verse of peace
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Old 05-25-2016, 10:52 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,038,277 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
The Quran says differently.

Quran 2:106
We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth [one] better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent?

Well, if allah had to abrogate verses when he think up something better then he's not all that competent over all things.
The same charge was made by the Jews when Jesus had brought a new message, and so did both the Jews and the Christians when the Qur'an was revealed.

Here is the passage with its context to show that the message in 2:106 is directed towards the People of the previous Book (followers of the Book):

[2.105] Those who disbelieve from among the followers of the Book do not like, nor do the polytheists, that the good should be sent down to you from your Lord, and Allah chooses especially whom He pleases for His mercy, and Allah is the Lord of mighty grace.

[2.106] Whatever ayatin
(message) We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or like it. Do you not know that Allah has power over all things?

Therefore, it is reference to God's "power over all things" and that He can send another message "similar or better"; the Injeel after the Taurat, and the Qur'an after the Injeel. Do you (People of the Book) not know that God has power over all things?

The verse 2:106 is not about verses of the Qur'an but about the verses of the previous message that had been forgotten and some verses were no longer needed such as about Sabbath.

As I stated previously, one needs to understand the Qur'an before one can understand the verse 2:106. It is not about any verse of the Qur'an being abrogated but parts of the previous messages that had been either forgotten or were no longer needed in that form otherwise there would be no need for the Qur'an.

Anyone claiming that verses of the Qur'an have been abrogated (meaning cancelled and made null and void completely) is unable to understand the Qur'an and unable to reconcile a verse in the Qur'an with another verse of the Qur'an on the same issue. So such a person thinks of an easy way out; the verse he can't reconcile with the other verses is abrogated. Thus the problem in his mind is solved. But, in reality, he has created another problem for himself; he is unable to tell how many verses of the Qur'an, he thinks, have been abrogated. They all have their own number in ignorance.

Conclusion: No verse of the Qur'an was ever made annul or forgotten. The latter is quite telling! Which verse of the Qur'an was forgotten if they are all there?
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Old 05-25-2016, 10:58 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,038,277 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
Thank you
I know this is off topic
But allow me
Ask you what is the source of your information it 613 Commandments
Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)
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Old 05-25-2016, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,284,120 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
Thank you
I know this is off topic
But allow me
Ask you what is the source of your information it 613 Commandments
The first is the Ten given by Moses to his people and is fixed
for starts one of my great-Grandmothers on my Mothers side was Jewish I have meny Jewish friends and relatives.

with that said here are some links to Jewish sites that do know more about Judaism than any Christians know.

613 Mitzvahs (commandments)

Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)

The 613 Commandments - Mitzvahs & Traditions


The 10 commandments are categories of Mitzvah

But what about the so-called "Ten Commandments," the words recorded in Exodus 20, the words that the Creator Himself wrote on the two stone tablets that Moses brought down from Mount Sinai (Ex. 31:18), which Moses smashed upon seeing the idolatry of the golden calf (Ex. 32:19)? In the Torah, these words are never referred to as the Ten Commandments. In the Torah, they are called Aseret ha-D'varim (Ex. 34:28, Deut. 4:13 and Deut. 10:4). In rabbinical texts, they are referred to as Aseret ha-Dibrot. The words d'varim and dibrot come from the Hebrew root Dalet-Beit-Reish, meaning word, speak or thing; thus, the phrase is accurately translated as the Ten Sayings, the Ten Statements, the Ten Declarations, the Ten Words or even the Ten Things, but not as the Ten Commandments, which would be Aseret ha-Mitzvot.

The Aseret ha-Dibrot are not understood as individual mitzvot; rather, they are categories or classifications of mitzvot. Each of the 613 mitzvot can be subsumed under one of these ten categories,
Judaism 101: Aseret ha-Dibrot: The "Ten Commandments"


The Ten Commandments, in biblical Hebrew are called and translated as Ten Statements. They are ten of the 613 commandments contained in the Torah. In Judaism they are understood as categories or classifications of mitzvot. They are also known to Christians as the Decalogue , which play a fundamental role in most forms of Christianity. They include instructions to worship only God and to keep the Sabbath, and prohibitions against idolatry, blasphemy, murder, theft, and adultery. Different Christian groups follow slightly different traditions for interpreting and numbering them.
10 Commandments - Crystalinks




From a Christian site:


The Ten Commandments Is Not in the Bible



If you have a bit of Bible knowledge or a good Bible search tool, you will quickly find three passages that use the phrase "the Ten Commandments" (capitalized or not): Exodus 34:28, Deuteronomy 4:13, and Deuteronomy 10:4. Unfortunately, our translators have bowed to a tradition dating to the middle-ages and have not provided an accurate translation.

The Hebrew words used in those verses (aseret hadevarim) are more accurately translated as "the Ten Words"... not "the Ten Commandments".
The Septuagint accurately translates the Hebrew and uses the Greek equivalent of "the Ten Words", deka logous.

So in actual fact, Scripture never mentions the phrase "The Ten Commandments". (And for all of you eagle-eyed grammar gurus out there, that is the reason why the article is entitled "The Ten Commandments Is Not in the Bible" instead of the more grammatically expected "The Ten Commandments Are Not in the Bible".)
https://www.psalm11918.org/Articles/...the-Bible.html
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Last edited by Woodrow LI; 05-25-2016 at 11:21 AM..
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Old 05-25-2016, 04:11 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 661,767 times
Reputation: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
for starts one of my great-Grandmothers on my Mothers side was Jewish I have meny Jewish friends and relatives.

with that said here are some links to Jewish sites that do know more about Judaism than any Christians know.

613 Mitzvahs (commandments)

Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)

The 613 Commandments - Mitzvahs & Traditions


The 10 commandments are categories of Mitzvah

But what about the so-called "Ten Commandments," the words recorded in Exodus 20, the words that the Creator Himself wrote on the two stone tablets that Moses brought down from Mount Sinai (Ex. 31:18), which Moses smashed upon seeing the idolatry of the golden calf (Ex. 32:19)? In the Torah, these words are never referred to as the Ten Commandments. In the Torah, they are called Aseret ha-D'varim (Ex. 34:28, Deut. 4:13 and Deut. 10:4). In rabbinical texts, they are referred to as Aseret ha-Dibrot. The words d'varim and dibrot come from the Hebrew root Dalet-Beit-Reish, meaning word, speak or thing; thus, the phrase is accurately translated as the Ten Sayings, the Ten Statements, the Ten Declarations, the Ten Words or even the Ten Things, but not as the Ten Commandments, which would be Aseret ha-Mitzvot.

The Aseret ha-Dibrot are not understood as individual mitzvot; rather, they are categories or classifications of mitzvot. Each of the 613 mitzvot can be subsumed under one of these ten categories,
Judaism 101: Aseret ha-Dibrot: The "Ten Commandments"


The Ten Commandments, in biblical Hebrew are called and translated as Ten Statements. They are ten of the 613 commandments contained in the Torah. In Judaism they are understood as categories or classifications of mitzvot. They are also known to Christians as the Decalogue , which play a fundamental role in most forms of Christianity. They include instructions to worship only God and to keep the Sabbath, and prohibitions against idolatry, blasphemy, murder, theft, and adultery. Different Christian groups follow slightly different traditions for interpreting and numbering them.
10 Commandments - Crystalinks




From a Christian site:


The Ten Commandments Is Not in the Bible



If you have a bit of Bible knowledge or a good Bible search tool, you will quickly find three passages that use the phrase "the Ten Commandments" (capitalized or not): Exodus 34:28, Deuteronomy 4:13, and Deuteronomy 10:4. Unfortunately, our translators have bowed to a tradition dating to the middle-ages and have not provided an accurate translation.

The Hebrew words used in those verses (aseret hadevarim) are more accurately translated as "the Ten Words"... not "the Ten Commandments".
The Septuagint accurately translates the Hebrew and uses the Greek equivalent of "the Ten Words", deka logous.

So in actual fact, Scripture never mentions the phrase "The Ten Commandments". (And for all of you eagle-eyed grammar gurus out there, that is the reason why the article is entitled "The Ten Commandments Is Not in the Bible" instead of the more grammatically expected "The Ten Commandments Are Not in the Bible".)
https://www.psalm11918.org/Articles/...the-Bible.html
You made a number 613
you must gave us the proof from the Torah and the Gospel
Now that the Ten Commandments are at the origin of the ten Hebrew words that's true
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Old 05-25-2016, 04:40 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 661,767 times
Reputation: 204
[quote=Khalif;44184579]The same charge was made by the Jews when Jesus had brought a new message, and so did both the Jews and the Christians when the Qur'an was revealed.

Here is the passage with its context to show that the message in 2:106 is directed towards the People of the previous Book (followers of the Book):
My friend
You are not able to interpretation
Verse is clear naskh -(canceled) of the Quran

Read the verse with complete accuracy
I think you do not understand the Koran well
The words of God: the canceled of verse or distanced forget fine them or similar. Did you know that God's power over all things cow {106}

Fmanah as Ibn Jarir said: (What copying), namely: What we will quote from the rule of the verse to others, Venbdelh and change it, so as to turn muslim haram and haram halal and permissible forbidden, and forbidden is permitted, and then only in the commands and prohibitions and bans and all, prevention, and Alabah
I sent a messenger to you nor a prophet, unless he wished the devil threw in his wish canceled (yansk)what God cast Satan and God governs His signs, and Allah is Knowing, Wise The same word of God cancels
And it after this it was addressed to the People of the Book
It's a complete state of intended cancellation and replacement
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