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Old 06-16-2016, 05:52 AM
 
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The reasons that Muslims slaughter Muslims is not because something is in Islam but because (a) they failed to understand the Qur'an, (b) they have broken into sects which is effectively forbidden in the Qur'an, (c) political, (d) lack of general education.

It is wrong for someone to say that they are "well versed in Islam" when that someone himself/herself is not well versed in Islam. Every cleric seems to be claiming that they are well versed in Islam. Nobody can be well versed in Islam unless they have studied the Qur'an in depth and is able to recall guidance in every verse of Qur'an on the same topic.

There are so many verses in the Qur'an with emphasis on having patience. There are very few clerics and these so called "well versed in Islam" who have very little or no patience. They are so rigid in their thinking that if they say milk is black no amount of telling them that milk is white will make them believe milk is white. I just can't stand such "well versed in Islam" Muslims. They are bigger danger to me than, say, the non-Muslims like the Continuums of this world.

This is why I have never learnt about Islam from any cleric or some so-called "well versed in Islam" guy. The things I say about Islam and the western values, if I say in front of these guys in Muslim countries, they would most likely slaughter me. That doesn't mean that I have wrong religion, it means that most Muslims today do not understand their own religion. I love Islam but not most Muslims who are not patient as directed by the Qur'an. Non-Muslims who became Muslims, like Woodrow, are far more well versed in Islam than many born Muslims who take their religion for granted.
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Old 06-16-2016, 07:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
While it is true that not all Muslim terrorist groups have a Wahhabi connection, the majority do.

As for Shi'ite groups I have very little knowledge about Shi'ism. When I lived in Austin on a few occasions I was close to the Shi'a mosque during Salat time so went there for Salat. It was somewhat confusing as they do the Salat different from what I learned, World wide Shi'ite account for only 10-15% of the world's Muslims and over half of them live in Iran and Iraq. The only Shi'ite I know of are in Dearborn, MI and a few in Austin TX. I do not think there are any in the Dakotas or Minnesota.. Although My oldest Daughter is Shi'ite I have little knowledge of her beliefs.
Read my post again.
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Old 06-16-2016, 08:24 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
The reasons that Muslims slaughter Muslims is not because something is in Islam but because (a) they failed to understand the Qur'an, (b) they have broken into sects which is effectively forbidden in the Qur'an, (c) political, (d) lack of general education.

It is wrong for someone to say that they are "well versed in Islam" when that someone himself/herself is not well versed in Islam. Every cleric seems to be claiming that they are well versed in Islam. Nobody can be well versed in Islam unless they have studied the Qur'an in depth and is able to recall guidance in every verse of Qur'an on the same topic.

There are so many verses in the Qur'an with emphasis on having patience. There are very few clerics and these so called "well versed in Islam" who have very little or no patience. They are so rigid in their thinking that if they say milk is black no amount of telling them that milk is white will make them believe milk is white. I just can't stand such "well versed in Islam" Muslims. They are bigger danger to me than, say, the non-Muslims like the Continuums of this world.

This is why I have never learnt about Islam from any cleric or some so-called "well versed in Islam" guy. The things I say about Islam and the western values, if I say in front of these guys in Muslim countries, they would most likely slaughter me. That doesn't mean that I have wrong religion, it means that most Muslims today do not understand their own religion. I love Islam but not most Muslims who are not patient as directed by the Qur'an. Non-Muslims who became Muslims, like Woodrow, are far more well versed in Islam than many born Muslims who take their religion for granted.
Muslims have been slaughtering Muslims since the Battle of the Camel. Did Aisha and Ali fail to understand Islam? Lack education? No. They were the wife and son-in-law and close companion of Muhammed. And, Islam IS political. That's PART of Islam.

Muslims slaughter Muslims BY THE MILLIONS!

Muslims slaughter non-Muslims BY THE TENS OF MILLIONS!

Muslims enslave people BY THE MILLIONS.

Koenard Elst in 'Negationism in India' gives an estimate of 80 million Hindus killed in the Muslim jihad against India. But it may have been far worse:
“When the Mohammedans first came we were said – I think on the authority of Ferishta, the oldest Mohammedan historian – to have been six hundred millions of Hindus. Now we are about two hundred millions."
— An interview of Swami Vivekananda, published in Prabuddha Bharat. April, 1899 and compiled under heading ‘On the Bounds of Hinduism’

The number of Christians slaughtered by Muslims is 9 million [David B. Barrett, Todd M. Johnson, World Christian Trends AD 30-AD 2200, William Carey Library, 2001, p. 230, table 4-10] .

Thomas Sowell [Thomas Sowell, Race and Culture, BasicBooks, 1994, p. 188] estimates that 11 million African slaves were shipped across the Atlantic and 14 million were sent to the Islamic nations of North Africa and the Middle East. For every slave captured many others died because of illness and privation on the forced march. The ones left behind were old, sick and/or helpless without the men to care for them. The total estimate is 120 MILLION deaths caused by Muslim slavery. And where are the black descendants of all these slaves?

Jihad killed the Buddhists in Turkey, Afghanistan, along the Silk Route, and in India to the tune of about 10 million.

Muslims invaded and slaughtered the Persians, the Chinese, the Christians in the middle-east.

It goes on and on. So many slaughtered BY MUSLIMS!
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Old 06-16-2016, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Georgia
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I'm glad I'm not still a muslim! In fact, I'm glad I never was aware that I was one!
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Old 06-16-2016, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Hogwash! They may be the currently be the muslim leaders in terrorism (not the only) but in islam terrorist groups come and go rapidly.

Remember Hazara? The maniacs in Iran who were stuffing kids into cinema halls & then burning them alive?
We still have Hamas. Hezbollah. Sipah-e-Muhammad.

And no, these acts of terrorism were not all done by Wahhabi. For example:

2016.06.11 Iraq Sichr 17 0 Seventeen people are allegedly massacred by a Shiite militia.
2016.06.06 Iraq Fallujah 4 0 Four civilians are tortured to death by a Shiite militia.
2016.06.06 Yemen Taiz 8 13 Shiite shells kill eight family members, including three children.
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Hogwash! There are so many who follow Islam slaughtering their fellow Muslims. If it were just a few nuts, I'd consider. But it isn't a few and they aren't nuts. They are well studied in Islam. Muslims have been slaughtering Muslims since the battle of the camel. And no other ideology has this kind of mass slaughter of fellow adherents going on.

Every single day Muslims slaughter Muslims.

It's easy to claim that the ones slaughtering aren't Muslims. But reality says differently.

No, the Muslim terrorists do not "nearly always target Muslims or powerful Non-Islamic nations that will retaliate with massive military force against Islamic Nations."

2016.06.14 Nigeria Kautuva 4 3 Jihadists burn down houses, murder four villagers and kidnap three women.
2016.06.13 India Kud 1 6 Muslim militants open fire from a bus, killing a woman and injuring a child.
2016.06.13 France Magnanville 2 1 A terrorist stabs a couple to death while shouting praises to Allah.
2016.06.12 Cameroon Darak 42 0 The bodies of forty-two fishermen are found a few days after they were captured by Boko Haram.
2016.06.12 Afghanistan Ghor 1 0 The Taliban cut out the eyes of a day laborer and skin him alive.
2016.06.12 Syria Raqqa 1 0 A caliphate member executes his own brother for apostasy.
2016.06.12 Libya Sirte 3 7 A suicide bomber detonates at a hospital, taking three others with him.
2016.06.12 Philippines Samal Island 1 0 A Canadian hostage is beheaded by Abu Sayyaf.
2016.06.12 USA Orlando, FL 49 53 An Islamic extremist massacres forty-nine people at a gay nightclub.
2016.06.11 Iraq Tarmiya 7 0 Three children and two women are among seven family members massacred in their home by sectarian activists.
2016.06.11 Iraq Yathrib 10 0 A grave is discovered containing ten ISIS victims.
2016.06.11 Iraq Sichr 17 0 Seventeen people are allegedly massacred by a Shiite militia.
2016.06.11 Syria Sayyida Zeinab 20 30 A double suicide bombing outside a Shiite mosque leaves at least twenty dead.
2016.06.11 Libya Benghazi 7 8 Seven civilians lose their lives when Islamist shell their neighborhood.
2016.06.11 Afghanistan Haska Mena 6 11 At least six are left dead after Islamic State members fire into a police station.
2016.06.11 Afghanistan Rodat 4 70 Religious extremists plant a bomb in a rival mosque that eliminates four worshippers.
2016.06.10 Egypt Rafah 1 0 A young police recruit is cut down in the prime of life by Islamic radicals.
2016.06.10 Iraq Baghdad 3 11 A Shahid suicide bomber takes out three other souls.
2016.06.10 Iraq Fallujah 30 0 Islamists spray machine-gun fire into a crowd of women and children trying to flee the caliphate, killing at least thirty.
2016.06.10 Syria al-Zahraa 1 6 A civilian is killed when terrorists send a rocket into a home.
2016.06.10 Syria Aleppo 3 15 A young girl is among three civilians aerated by Sunni shrapnel.
2016.06.10 Syria Ghandoura 37 0 ISIS members massacre at least thirty-seven villagers, including women and children.
2016.06.10 Nigeria Mairari 4 0 Islamists drag four women out of their homes and slit their throats.
2016.06.10 Somalia Bula Fulay 4 0 A pro-Sharia group beheads one man and shoot three others.
2016.06.10 Pakistan Lahore 3 1 A young couple are honor killed for marrying against their family's wishes along with a friend who helped them.
2016.06.10 Bangladesh Dhaka 1 0 A 62-year-old Hindu monastery worker is hacked to death by Religion of Peace proponents.
2016.06.09 Iraq Mosul 1 0 A woman is stoned to death in front of a mosque for adultery.
2016.06.09 Iraq Kirkuk 1 5 A mother is killed by an IS IED while leading her family out of the caliphate.
2016.06.09 Iraq Baghdad 19 46 A Sunni suicide bomber targets a commercial district in a Shiite area, killing nineteen.
2016.06.09 Iraq Taji 12 32 A dozen Iraqis are sent to Allah by a Shahid suicide bomber.
2016.06.09 Somalia Halgan 43 0 Dozens of AU peacekeepers are massacred during an al-Shabaab suicide assault.
2016.06.09 Syria Meydan 5 50 At least five are killed when al-Nusra deliberately shells a civilian area.
2016.06.09 Pakistan Changa Manga 0 1 A Christian man is badly beaten by a Muslim mob for selling food deemed 'unclean' because of his religion.
2016.06.09 Syria Handarat 1 8 A Sunni rocket claims the life of a child.
2016.06.09 Iraq Wilayat Salahuddin 1 0 A man is beheaded for sorcery by the caliphate.
2016.06.08 Iraq Hanbas 3 3 An ISIS bomb blast lays out three Shiites.
2016.06.08 Libya Abu Grein 25 32 Over two dozen defenders are killed during an ISIS assault on a small town.
2016.06.08 Libya Buairat el-Hassun 7 18 An ISIS car bomb claims seven lives.
2016.06.08 Syria Manbij 19 0 Nineteen civilians are killed by the Islamic State.
2016.06.08 Pakistan Lahore 1 0 A 17-year-old girl is burnt alive by her conservative mother for eloping without permission.
2016.06.08 Israel Tel Aviv 4 13 Muslims disguised as Orthodox Jews fire into a food and retail market, killing four patrons as they praise Allah.
2016.06.07 Afghanistan Sokhti 11 12 Eleven local security personnel are killed during a Taliban attack.
2016.06.07 Afghanistan Ghazni 12 50 The Taliban stop vehicles along a highway and massacre a dozen occupants.
2016.06.07 Iraq Khazar 5 0 Five displaced persons are further removed by ISIS bombers.
2016.06.07 Iraq Haditha 2 0 Two female factory workers are disassembled by a Fedayeen suicide bomber.
2016.06.07 Bangladesh Jhenaidah 1 0 A 69-year-old Hindu priest is hacked to death by Islamic radicals.
2016.06.07 Iraq Karbala 7 20 A Sunni suicide bomber produces seven dead Shiites at a commercial area.
2016.06.06 Jordan Amman 5 0 At least five employees are killed in their office by Islamic militants.
2016.06.06 Iraq Baghdad 2 11 Jihadis bomb a local market, killing two patrons.
2016.06.06 Afghanistan Sari Pul 7 0 A child is among seven gunned down by Taliban fundamentalists.
2016.06.06 Yemen Khormaksar 1 0 A civilian is killed when Muslim extremists fire on an airport.
2016.06.06 Iraq Fallujah 4 0 Four civilians are tortured to death by a Shiite militia.
2016.06.06 Yemen Taiz 8 13 Shiite shells kill eight family members, including three children.
2016.06.06 Nigeria Adamawa 4 0 Four farmers are murdered by Boko Haram.
2016.06.06 Egypt Sadwet 1 0 A young policeman is shot to death in the name of Allah.
2016.06.06 Thailand Narathiwat 3 2 Two villagers are shot point blank by Muslim terrorists.
2016.06.06 Iraq Mosul 11 0 Eleven people are executed in front of their families for trying to flee the caliphate.

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/a...aspx?Yr=Last30
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Read my post again.
In nearly all of those groups you will find they follow Wahhabi except for the Radical Shi'ite groups. Either way they account for a very small percentage of the world's Muslims.
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Old 06-16-2016, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
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Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Except a baby does not have free will. They are born in a state of full submission with no ability to deny Allaah(swt) until the reach the age of awareness and have the ability to choose by they own choice and with knowledge, they are Muslim
Come on Woodrow you know that's nonsense. Where do infants get knowledge from? Their parents in general.

Until they are fed knowledge, they are atheist. Infants have no knowledge of god or anything else.

Free will has got nothing to do with it.
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Old 06-16-2016, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Originally Posted by Cruithne View Post
Come on Woodrow you know that's nonsense. Where do infants get knowledge from? Their parents in general.

Until they are fed knowledge, they are atheist. Infants have no knowledge of god or anything else.

Free will has got nothing to do with it.
Being Muslim is not membership in something. It is an action or inaction if the person through no choice of their own, has no knowledge of God(swt).

If the person has knowledge of God(swt) it is the action of consciously submitting to Him. If the person has no knowledge of God(swt) it is the state of being until the person can make an informed free-will decision.

Islam is not something one joins. There is no excommunication as there is nothing one joined to get kicked out of.
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Old 06-16-2016, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Eastern Shore of Maryland
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Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post

Everyone, including you, was born as a Muslim, and remain as such up until they reach the age of being able to make a free will choice.

According to your opinion based on your faith maybe. According to my "opinion" which is as valid as yours, according to my "Lack" of Faith, No one has any Faith of any kind, until they adopt one of free will, or choose NOT to adopt any Faith, as I have chosen. Your notion is ridiculous.
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Old 06-16-2016, 07:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Being Muslim is not membership in something. It is an action or inaction if the person through no choice of their own, has no knowledge of God(swt).

If the person has knowledge of God(swt) it is the action of consciously submitting to Him. If the person has no knowledge of God(swt) it is the state of being until the person can make an informed free-will decision.

Islam is not something one joins. There is no excommunication as there is nothing one joined to get kicked out of.
No knowledge of god = atheist.

Lack of belief in a god = atheist

Knowledge of the concept of god but lack of belief - atheist

Fence sitter (says existence of god is unknowable) = agnostic

A religious belief holding that God created the universe and established rationally comprehensible moral and natural laws but does not intervene in human affairs through miracles or supernatural revelation. = deist

an adherent of Islam = Muslim

belief in the existence of magical powers in nature = Wiccan

Assigning your ideology to an infant based on the infant's inability to have an ideology = nuts
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Old 06-16-2016, 10:26 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
No knowledge of god = atheist.

Lack of belief in a god = atheist

Knowledge of the concept of god but lack of belief - atheist

Fence sitter (says existence of god is unknowable) = agnostic

A religious belief holding that God created the universe and established rationally comprehensible moral and natural laws but does not intervene in human affairs through miracles or supernatural revelation. = deist

an adherent of Islam = Muslim

belief in the existence of magical powers in nature = Wiccan

Assigning your ideology to an infant based on the infant's inability to have an ideology = nuts
Yu are assuming Islam refers only to an Ideology. that does not occur until a person has the capability of making a free-will choice. Before then a person is still performing Islam to the best of their ability and knowledge. A person will not be considered to be a non-Muslim until they have the ability to not be one. If Christianity were true you would be correct as most Christians believe all people are born in a state of sin and destined for eternal damnation unless they are saved. In Islam we believe all people are born pure and sinless and destined for heaven until their own choices are the refusal to submit to Allaah(swt) It takes free choice and knowledge to deliberatly refuse to submit (perform Islam) until a person makes that choice of their own free will and with knowledge, they are submitting to the best of their ability and knowledge. Perfection is not required only what a person is capable of.Islam does not teach that a person incapable of performing Islam will be judged for such. They are Muslim by default until they them self can choose differently. No actions or ituals or "joining" required. (Until they have the ability to choose.
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