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Old 06-03-2016, 09:53 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 759,482 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratch33 View Post
More likely no one is "born" any particular religion.
Only in the context of being born to parents of a religion. The infant has a blank slate with potential. Muslims destroy that potential. Then, this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8-yRoo7gTw
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Old 06-03-2016, 09:54 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 670,615 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Every Islamic terrorist had their mind destroyed.

Every man who murdered his child (honor killings) had his mind destroyed.

The child who is being taught that A is not A is having their mind destroyed.

The fundamental (and only) purpose of education is to teach a student how to live his life by developing his mind and equipping him to deal with reality. It's not a matter of an overload of indiscriminate information.

A person will be exposed to many different ideologies, but the question is: will that person have been taught the proper tools to evaluate that ideology? What are those tools? Logic and induction and deduction? Or blind faith?

There certainly are statements that are 100% true or false. I exist. 100% true. Initiation of force against others is evil. 100% true. Michael Jackson had work done on his face. 100% true. There is no god. 100% true. You want to manufacture possibilities without evidence. You are advocating a life of continual self doubt.
child's education a verse of the hatred
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Old 06-03-2016, 03:35 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 759,482 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
child's education a verse of the hatred
Often yes, or they taught lies that brainwash the child so that when they do learn the hateful truth of Islam they cannot turn away.
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Old 06-03-2016, 09:51 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,602,177 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
some Theists are of the opinion that is what Atheists are doing. Every human believes his own fleas are gazelles.(Old African proverb) which so far I have found to be true.

I believe all children should be taught as many different opinions as they can comprehend. to me the seeking of truth requires a study of as many views as we can find.No matter how much we believe something is true or false. We are Human and have human limitations. ' we owe it to our self to learn all we can, including the views of people we disagree with. No statement made by a human including this one, is 100% true or 100% false. We should always seek to verify all things, no matter how much we believe it is true or how much we believe it is false.
What you are proposing is the ideal of being a human being but not necessary being a good Muslim. This is because the Quran in part [not wholly] has evil elements that are 'food' for SOME [not all] evil prone Muslims to brainwash children to kill non-Muslims.

Quote:
To claim someone's teaching something to destroy children's minds one must be prepared to state specifics as to who is doing the teaching. what it is they are teaching and give proof of specific children who had their minds destroyed..
I noted Juju has posted a lot of YouTube videos showing how children were brainwashed by their Muslim parents and elders.

Here is the recent program from CNN on how Yazidi children were brainwashed to kill Kafir [kuffar] aka infidels.
Meet the man saving Yazidi slaves from ISIS - CNN.com

Quote:
Fellow ISIS captive Dilshad, aged 10, underwent the same brainwashing. His mother Samira (not her real name) says he was being groomed to be an ISIS executioner.
While his mother and siblings were held captive, he was taken to an ISIS training camp.
"They said, 'We are going to the camp to train to fight with the Islamic state,' [there were] little and big children [there]," Dilshad explains.

"We were running and we read the Fatiha [the first chapter of the Quran] and they wouldn't let us drink water. They said it was so you can be trained."

Samira was horrified when she overheard the family's captors talking about the promise Dilshad showed. Weeks later, they were sold to another militant. It was Dilshad he wanted.

"[He] was a butcher, he would kill people, he would slaughter them," Dilshad remembers. "He said, 'now you kill them with a pistol,' but I said 'I can't kill.'

"He said 'OK, next time you will kill them.' I said 'Why are you killing people in front of me?' He said 'So you learn.' He killed people with a sword... he said they are infidels.

"The first time I saw them kill in front of me I was very scared, but then I wasn't as scared as the first time."

Dilshad says the ISIS militant told him he was like a son, and urged him to kill members of his real family: "They said to me, 'your father is an infidel, if you see him kill him.'"
The above brainwashing and motivations are traceable to the verses in Quran in various contexts, e.g. kafir/kuffar [even if they are your parents, relatives, friends, etc.] are a threat to Islam, so kill them before they do damage.

Now the real problem is there is no central authority within the Islamic community to decide who is right or wrong in the acceptance of the above verses. Only Allah can made the final judgment but Allah is no where to be found on Earth to decide. So in the meanwhile those evil prone Muslims will continue to commit whatever good [evil to others] they deem is permissible by Allah in the Quran till they meet Allah on J-Day to know the truth.

Because J-Day can never be verified, SOME Muslims will continue to commit evils and violence on non-Muslims and even other Muslims till eternity as long as Islam as its natural 20% [as with all humans] of Muslims who are born with tendencies and proclivities for evil and violence.

Many good natured Muslims will denounced those Muslims who commit evils and violence based on Quranic verses as not-Muslims. But the fact is they are Muslims by definition and in fact they are more Muslim [in terms of compliance] than the majority because they are complying with more exactly to what is ordained in the Quran.


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Old 06-03-2016, 11:05 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 670,615 times
Reputation: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
What you are proposing is the ideal of being a human being but not necessary being a good Muslim. This is because the Quran in part [not wholly] has evil elements that are 'food' for SOME [not all] evil prone Muslims to brainwash children to kill non-Muslims.

I noted Juju has posted a lot of YouTube videos showing how children were brainwashed by their Muslim parents and elders.

Here is the recent program from CNN on how Yazidi children were brainwashed to kill Kafir [kuffar] aka infidels.
Meet the man saving Yazidi slaves from ISIS - CNN.com



The above brainwashing and motivations are traceable to the verses in Quran in various contexts, e.g. kafir/kuffar [even if they are your parents, relatives, friends, etc.] are a threat to Islam, so kill them before they do damage.

Now the real problem is there is no central authority within the Islamic community to decide who is right or wrong in the acceptance of the above verses. Only Allah can made the final judgment but Allah is no where to be found on Earth to decide. So in the meanwhile those evil prone Muslims will continue to commit whatever good [evil to others] they deem is permissible by Allah in the Quran till they meet Allah on J-Day to know the truth.

Because J-Day can never be verified, SOME Muslims will continue to commit evils and violence on non-Muslims and even other Muslims till eternity as long as Islam as its natural 20% [as with all humans] of Muslims who are born with tendencies and proclivities for evil and violence.

Many good natured Muslims will denounced those Muslims who commit evils and violence based on Quranic verses as not-Muslims. But the fact is they are Muslims by definition and in fact they are more Muslim [in terms of compliance] than the majority because they are complying with more exactly to what is ordained in the Quran.


Says the Messenger of Allah
Commanded me to fight the people

They say that the agency Alllah Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah
This is the word of Muhammad
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Old 06-03-2016, 11:48 PM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,930,351 times
Reputation: 1354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Islam is the Act of submitting to god(swt) to the best of you ability and knowledge.

Everyone, including you, was born as a Muslim, and remain as such up until they reach the age of being able to make a free will choice.
Are you saying that children are born submitting to some god? How do you know this and how is it quantified, Woodrow? Do you remember submitting to God when you exited the womb? Does ANY of us?

From where I sit, it appears children are born WITHOUT conditioning on a myriad of things. The only thing they "believe" is in a breast. I just don't get your logic here, my friend.
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Old 06-04-2016, 06:17 AM
 
Location: Upstate NY
35,988 posts, read 10,687,159 times
Reputation: 34237
Lol, by all means, allow me to say what the 550 people who viewed this thread and said "I'm outta here" probably wanted to say:

Bullbleep.


Clearly, "Mission Islam" isn't the only one promoting this gar-baghe.
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Old 06-05-2016, 02:37 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,360,597 times
Reputation: 7408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
What you are proposing is the ideal of being a human being but not necessary being a good Muslim. This is because the Quran in part [not wholly] has evil elements that are 'food' for SOME [not all] evil prone Muslims to brainwash children to kill non-Muslims.

I noted Juju has posted a lot of YouTube videos showing how children were brainwashed by their Muslim parents and elders.

Here is the recent program from CNN on how Yazidi children were brainwashed to kill Kafir [kuffar] aka infidels.
Meet the man saving Yazidi slaves from ISIS - CNN.com



The above brainwashing and motivations are traceable to the verses in Quran in various contexts, e.g. kafir/kuffar [even if they are your parents, relatives, friends, etc.] are a threat to Islam, so kill them before they do damage.

Now the real problem is there is no central authority within the Islamic community to decide who is right or wrong in the acceptance of the above verses. Only Allah can made the final judgment but Allah is no where to be found on Earth to decide. So in the meanwhile those evil prone Muslims will continue to commit whatever good [evil to others] they deem is permissible by Allah in the Quran till they meet Allah on J-Day to know the truth.

Because J-Day can never be verified, SOME Muslims will continue to commit evils and violence on non-Muslims and even other Muslims till eternity as long as Islam as its natural 20% [as with all humans] of Muslims who are born with tendencies and proclivities for evil and violence.

Many good natured Muslims will denounced those Muslims who commit evils and violence based on Quranic verses as not-Muslims. But the fact is they are Muslims by definition and in fact they are more Muslim [in terms of compliance] than the majority because they are complying with more exactly to what is ordained in the Quran.


Yazidi do not even call them self Muslim. They They are an ancient Kurdish Religion that predates even Christianity. The Confusion comes about because they are kurdish and most Kurds are Muslim. They are interesting. Their religion has adopted a considerable amount ot Christianity along with some touches of Sunni, Shi'ite and Sufi along with some Zoroastrianism. They practice Christian Baptism and seem to consider them selves Christian, but they also consider the Qur'an to be Holy Scripture.

Their own name for themselves is Daasin (plural Dawaaseen), which is taken from the name of an old Nestorian - the Ancient Church of the East - diocese, for many of their beliefs are derived from Christianity. They revere both the Bible and the Koran, but much of their own tradition is oral. Due in part to its secrecy, there have been
Who, What, Why: Who are the Yazidis? - BBC News
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Old 06-05-2016, 02:46 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,360,597 times
Reputation: 7408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratch33 View Post
More likely no one is "born" any particular religion.
Depends on how one defines religion. The Arabic word De'en defines both religion and life. islam as a religion does not meet the English definition of Religion.

Islam means to submit fully to god(swt) to the best of ones ability and knowledge. Perfection is not required, to the best of one's ability is the criteria.

A person who has neither the knowledge or ability to know About Allaah(swt) is performing Islam to the best of their ability and as such is Muslim.
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No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

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Old 06-05-2016, 06:22 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 759,482 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Depends on how one defines religion. The Arabic word De'en defines both religion and life. islam as a religion does not meet the English definition of Religion.

Islam means to submit fully to god(swt) to the best of ones ability and knowledge. Perfection is not required, to the best of one's ability is the criteria.

A person who has neither the knowledge or ability to know About Allaah(swt) is performing Islam to the best of their ability and as such is Muslim.
If Islam means to submit fully to god to the best of ones ability and knowledge....that is a mental action (or choice) based on having some degree of ability and knowledge. An infant has neither ability or knowledge. You cannot give an infant attributes it does not have. But that is just what you are trying to do. You ignore the law of identity.

You set up a definition to your liking, then you apply that definition to someone that the definition cannot possibly apply to.

An infant cannot "submit fully to god to the best of ones ability and knowledge" because they have no ability or knowledge!! "The best of" does not mean 'none". "Submit fully to god to the best of ones ability and knowledge" does not mean zero ability and knowledge.

"A person who has neither the knowledge or ability to know About Allaah(swt) is performing Islam to the best of their ability and as such is Muslim."

No, they are not! There is no 'best of their knowledge or ability'. There is no knowledge or ability. Further, if that infant grows to adulthood with no teachings about Islam, there will never be any knowledge of islam. If all children were born Muslim then we would see people who are not indoctrinated in any religion naturally believing in Islam. But this is not happening. Your claim is nonsense based on more nonsense. And, in reality, such a claim cheapens Islam even further.

Last edited by juju33312; 06-05-2016 at 06:48 AM..
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