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Old 05-30-2016, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
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This is something many non-Muslims can not comprehend. they will state they can not have been a Muslim as they never joined Islam. SURPIZE--No one has ever Joined Islam, Not even Muhammad(saws). there is no such thing as joining Islam as it is not a church, religious denomination or any form of organization. Islam is the Act of submitting to god(swt) to the best of you abilityand knowledge. Every person who for any reason has no knowledge of Islam, through no fault of their own, is performing Islam to the best of their ability in accordance with the knowledge they have.

Everyone, including you, was born as a Muslim, and remain as such up until they reach the age of being able to make a free will choice.
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Old 05-30-2016, 03:31 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
This is something many non-Muslims can not comprehend. they will state they can not have been a Muslim as they never joined Islam. SURPIZE--No one has ever Joined Islam, Not even Muhammad(saws). there is no such thing as joining Islam as it is not a church, religious denomination or any form of organization. Islam is the Act of submitting to god(swt) to the best of you abilityand knowledge. Every person who for any reason has no knowledge of Islam, through no fault of their own, is performing Islam to the best of their ability in accordance with the knowledge they have.

Everyone, including you, was born as a Muslim, and remain as such up until they reach the age of being able to make a free will choice.
The reason many non-Muslims cannot comprehend it is that it is not true. This is simply an arbitrary assertion on your part. It means nothing.

All us us have seen babies. We are able to see them start tabula rosa, a blank slate, with the potential for learning and choosing what to believe. We can learn about childhood development from experts who have studied such things.

Piaget Cognitive Stages of Development
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Old 05-30-2016, 07:27 PM
 
129 posts, read 72,292 times
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Science and faith are not incompatible. God willed the child to be born according to his design - in harmony with the rest of creation, science, and nature, so to speak. It is not until the child reaches the age of reason and purposely acts in a way contrary to God's will that he breaks this harmony.

Or something along those lines. I know I didn't word it very well.
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Old 05-30-2016, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
The reason many non-Muslims cannot comprehend it is that it is not true. This is simply an arbitrary assertion on your part. It means nothing.

All us us have seen babies. We are able to see them start tabula rosa, a blank slate, with the potential for learning and choosing what to believe. We can learn about childhood development from experts who have studied such things.

Piaget Cognitive Stages of Development
A new born baby is as closs to being a perfect Muslim that a person can ever be.

To be Muslim a person must submit to Allaah(swt) to the best of their ability in accordance with their knowledge. A new born baby is doing so as the have no knowledge nor ability to perform Islam, by default they are doing the best they can.


Everyone Is Born a Muslim

Inherent Nature (Fitrah)

Believe it or not, all humans born into this world are aware of God and the knowledge of right and wrong from birth.

God Almighty was a ‘treasure’ and He wished to be known. But how can man, in our limited capabilities, know about or even find our Creator on our own? We could not. The only way that humans are able to know about God and His creation is through three sources that guide all humans back to our Creator. However, it is up top each individual soul as to whether or not they heed the call, which leads back to God Almighty.

Everyone Is Born a Muslim

he answer is that our Creator has granted each one of us a guiding light -- a pure, undefiled innate nature called the fitrah. Unlike Christians who believe in the doctrine of Original Sin and assert that each baby is born tainted with the sin of Adam’s disobedience to God, Muslims believe that every child is born into a state of purity where it recognizes its Creator and is naturally subservient to His laws.

In his book The Fundamentals of Islamic Monotheism, Abu Ameenah Bilaal Philips writes: Just as a child’s body submits to the physical laws which Allah has put in nature, its soul also submits naturally to the fact that Allah is its Lord and Creator. But its parents try to make it follow their own way and the child is not strong enough in the early stages of its life to resist or oppose its parents. The religion which the child follows at this stage is one of custom and upbringing and Allah does not hold it to account for this religion.

When the child matures in youth and clear proofs of the falsehood of its religion are brought to it, the adult must now follow the religion of knowledge and reason. At this point the devils try their best to encourage him to stay as he is or to go further astray. Evils are made pleasing to him and he must now live in the midst of a struggle between his innate pure nature and his desires in order to find the right road.

If he chooses to follow his innate nature, his fitrah, Allah will help him overcome his desires even though it may take most of his life to escape, for many people enter Islam. in their old age.

The Qur'an also points to this phenomenon, where every soul that has been created is asked Who their Lord is, and they testify that it is none other than Allah before they are born into the world.

When your Lord drew forth from the loins of the children of Aadam their descendants and made them testify concerning themselves. Saying: Am I not your Lord? They said: “Yes, we testify to it.” (This) in case you say on the Day of Judgement, “We were unaware of this.” Or in case you say: It was our ancestors who made partners (with Allah) and we are only their descendants…[Surah Al-A’raaf 7:172-173]

Explaining this verse, the Prophet [SAW] said: When Allah created Aadam [AS] , He took a covenant from him …then He extracted from him all of his descendants who would be born until the end of the world, generation after generation and spread them out in front of Him in order to take a covenant from them.

He spoke to them face to face saying: Am I not your Lord? And they all replied: Yes, we testify to it.

Allah then explained why He had all of mankind bear witness that He was their Creator and the only true God worthy of worship. He said: That was in case you (mankind) should say on the Day of Resurrection, “Surely we were unaware of all this. We had no idea that You were our God.” [Silsilah al ahadeeth as Saheehah, Narrated by ibn Abbaas, collected by Imaam Ahmad]

This is the reason why people who adopt Islaam are said to revert instead of convert, because they are going back to their original nature -- the one they were naturally created with -- which is automatically aligned with the Universe, its Creator and His Laws; as opposed to simply exchanging one set of beliefs for another.

Reverts to Islaam testify that this inner inclination to search for the Truth, to know and follow it is a major factor in their adopting the faith. It is interesting to see some of the reasons cited by reverts for adopting Islaam:

Believe It or Not: You were Born Muslim!

Allah then explained why He had all of mankind bear witness that He is their creator and only true God worthy of worship. He said, "That was In case you (mankind) should say on the day of Resurrection, "Verily we were unaware of all this." That is to say, we had no idea that You Allah, were our God. No one told us that we were only supposed to worship You alone. Allah went on to explain That it was also In case you should say, "Certainly It was our ancestors who made partners (With Allah) and we are only their descendants; will You then destroy us for what those liars did?" Thus, every child is born with a natural belief in Allah and an inborn inclination to worship Him alone called in Arabic the "Fitrah".

If the child were left alone, he would worship Allah in his own way, but all children are affected by those things around them, seen or unseen.

The Prophet (PBUH) reported that Allah said, "I created my servants in the right religion but devils made them go astray". The Prophet (PBUH) also said, "Each child is born in a state of "Fitrah", then his parents make him a Jew, Christian or a Zoroastrian, the way an animal gives birth to a normal offspring. Have you noticed any that were born mutilated?" (Collected by Al-Bukhaaree and Muslim).

So, just as the child submits to the physical laws which Allah has put in nature, his soul also submits naturally to the fact that Allah is his Lord and Creator. But, his parents try to make him follow their own way and the child is not strong enough in the early stages of his life to resist or oppose the will of his parents. The religion which the child follows at this stage is one of custom and upbringing and Allah does not hold him to account or punish him for this religion. (By Abu Ameena Bilal Phillips )

Every Child is Born Muslim
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Old 05-30-2016, 10:01 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
This is something many non-Muslims can not comprehend. they will state they can not have been a Muslim as they never joined Islam. SURPIZE--No one has ever Joined Islam, Not even Muhammad(saws). there is no such thing as joining Islam as it is not a church, religious denomination or any form of organization. Islam is the Act of submitting to god(swt) to the best of you abilityand knowledge. Every person who for any reason has no knowledge of Islam, through no fault of their own, is performing Islam to the best of their ability in accordance with the knowledge they have.

Everyone, including you, was born as a Muslim, and remain as such up until they reach the age of being able to make a free will choice.
1-What is the proof?????

2-I ask you to give us a verse from the Koran
And ask you the definition to the word of Islam
The source of this word in the Arabic language
3-Are there verse about children in the Koran?????
Your claim needs to be proof
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Old 05-30-2016, 10:02 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,581,295 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
This is something many non-Muslims can not comprehend. they will state they can not have been a Muslim as they never joined Islam. SURPIZE--No one has ever Joined Islam, Not even Muhammad(saws). there is no such thing as joining Islam as it is not a church, religious denomination or any form of organization. Islam is the Act of submitting to god(swt) to the best of you ability and knowledge. Every person who for any reason has no knowledge of Islam, through no fault of their own, is performing Islam to the best of their ability in accordance with the knowledge they have.

Everyone, including you, was born as a Muslim, and remain as such up until they reach the age of being able to make a free will choice.
This is an insult to all non-Muslims.
This is also a very personal insult to me as a human being.
This is also a bashing of non-Muslims on a personal basis.
That is one of the problem with Islam and Muslims [most not all], all they want is their selfish interests and they don't give a damn when they insult and bash non-Muslims.

If you want to insist on your point because the Sunnah said so or Quran implied it, you should keep it privately and personally and not throw it at the faces of other human beings who are not Muslims.

Islam has certain pros for some people, but there is no way I am associated with Islam which is a low quality religion with doctrines which in part contain very malignant elements where its resultants are proven with the glaring evidences of terrible evils and violence committed by SOME evil prone Muslims [born with or brainwashed later].

The fact is DNA wise, all humans are born human beings with an inherent algorithm which drive different people toward spirituality and the majority to religions and a God to soothe the terrible subliminal psychological pains and angst.

If insecured Muslims with very low self esteem insist all are born Muslims, then Jews can also claims all humans are born Jewish if they want to, Hindus can also claim all are born Hindus, so can Buddhists and others. The other believers do not make such a claim [all are born into their respective religions] because it is silly and religiously immatured and offensive to others.
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Old 05-30-2016, 10:39 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,682 times
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[quote=Woodrow LI;44241030]A new born baby is as closs to being a perfect Muslim that a person can ever be.

T

Believe it or not, all humans born into this world are aware of God and the knowledge of right and wrong from birth.
this claim is not true
The ultimate proof
The population of the United States, Canada, Australia natives
And also parts of the wide range of Africa

[quote=Woodrow LI;44241030] he answer is that our Creator has granted each one of us a guiding light -- a pure, undefiled innate nature called the fitrah. Unlike Christians who believe in the doctrine of Original Sin and assert that each baby is born tainted with the sin of Adam’s disobedience to God, Muslims believe that every child is born into a state of purity where it recognizes its Creator and is naturally subservient to His laws.
-----------
Do you accept the frank dialogue at this point??????

The concept of original sin
It is scientifically true
Because every human being after Adam and Eve undergo

the human the result of the practice of sex between a man and a woman

Without the sex the child does not consist

At the beginning of the emergence of humanity got sexual intercourse between the sons of Adam and Eve
And their nations and peoples formed
This compendium of religious thought
So humanity is the product of the sexual act
All the prophets are subject to this law
All intellectuals, scientists and military leaders
So call it a sin original or natural law or the law of God
It's based on the same principle
For this reason, marriage is a social and religious cover
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Old 05-30-2016, 10:55 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,682 times
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Religious Thought says
There are no children to Adam and Eve in paradise
The reason they did not know sexual intercourse
Their knowledge of sexuality emerged after the expulsion from paradise
Yes religious thought is based on the concept
Only Islam is trying to gloss over these principles\
Even does not appear the contradiction between these principles and the concept of paradise in Islam
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Old 05-30-2016, 10:58 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,682 times
Reputation: 204
But the innocence of children Qara n Aiarafha
While Christianity is carrying a great concept
It boils down to a few words uttered by Jesus Christ
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Old 05-30-2016, 11:06 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,682 times
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(Ahptoa said one to another enemy and you land in a stable and chattel until (24) in which he said you live and which shall die and you come out of them (25)
They landed in a constant state of hostility
The Koran says that
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