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Old 06-02-2016, 06:57 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
What percent of imam are women?

Can women be imam in front of men?
like all Muslims all Women are Imams. for most Muslims the first Imam they pray behind is their mother. Some women have opened mosques More women have opened mosqes in China than imen have.

There is nothing preventing a woman from opening a mosque. there is no central authority that says who can build and open a Mosque. There also is no central authority that builds Mosques and appoints Imams.

There is a restriction on a man praying before a woman, so therefore if a woman opens a Mosques adult males would be forbidden to pray in it.

However it can be expensive to have a Mosque. they are not money generators and as we do not tithe a woman may have a hard time paying for a Mosque and maintaining the up keep and utility bills.

The huge mosques with all the bells and whistles are usually owned operated by local Muslim groups and as such they will set their own rules and regulations. Personally I will not enter one as I feel they give a poor representation of how and where the majority of Muslims pray.

Here is a picture of the Mosque I most often pray in:



My yard under the 2 trees. Unless it is raining in which case it is indoors in the library.

But over all any woman can open her own Mosque and have anyone she desires to be the Imam, including her self.
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Old 06-02-2016, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
That is a somewhat multifaceted question as it addresses several things.

Hopefully we can keep this on topic. the goal is to bring about unerstanding of the following things.As all are related I think a single thered is best. The topics I hope we can clarify.

1. What are Islamic titles and who appoints them? Here Perhaps we should keep with the Titlles most often heard. Imam, Shiekh, Mullah, Mufti, Aytoullah, Muezzein, Scholar and Caliph

2. How does a person become an Imam?

3. Who decides where a Mosque will be built and who pays for it?

4. How is Islam organized?

Working backwards:

Islam is not organized. there is no overseeing by any "Islamic Leader" It is all about personal Responsibility.
Referring to Question 1

"1. What are Islamic titles and who appoints them? Here Perhaps we should keep with the Titlles most often heard. Imam, Shiekh, Mullah, Mufti, Aytoullah, Muezzein, Scholar and Caliph"

Imam: The person who leads the Obligatory prayers. That is all an Imam should do. No teaching or preaching. Just lead the prayer properly in the same manner it should be recited in every Mosque world wide. In Arabic and as estalished for each of the5 Salah.
Fajr, Duhr, Asr, Maghreb, and Isha. A person should be able to go into any Mosque anyplace on Earth and hear those same 5 prayers at the same designated time. If an Iman is doing more than that he/she is innovating the job to suit them self.

Sheikh (Male) Sheihina(Female):
A title used to show respect. Usually used to address an elderly person well past the age of 60. Ah educated person with a Ph.D or equal, A person who has demonstrated very high level of the understanding of Islam, A land owner or employer, A government official etc

Mullah, Musfti: (Mufti is the Persian name usually used by Shi'a) a state appointed official of Islamic Jurisprudence, corresponds very closely to a US Supreme Court Judge.
Ayatoullah: I really do not know Much about this it is a Shi'ite term and I am not very familiar with Shi'a

Muezzin: the person who recites the call to prayer. The person is often selected by the local community

Scholar: A person who has completed a high level of Islamic Studies at the university level from any of the widely accepted schools that offer Islamic Studies. The most honored was the University in Cairo. The universities in Mecca and medina also are highly respected, but there are few graduates. World wide some recognized schools are in India, Malaysia, Indonesia, the UK and the USA (The School of Islamic Studies at the Univesity of Texa, Austin is very much respected.

Caliph: Almost a moot term. Basically it is a God(swt) appointed leader of all Muslims. Only the First 4 caliphs are considered to have been true caliphs. Most Sunni do not believe there will be another Caliph until the Return of Jesus(as) A Caliph can not be self appointed, and if selected by Muslims it, the selection must be unanimously agreed upon by all Muslims world wide.
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Old 06-02-2016, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
like all Muslims all Women are Imams. for most Muslims the first Imam they pray behind is their mother. Some women have opened mosques More women have opened mosqes in China than imen have.

There is nothing preventing a woman from opening a mosque. there is no central authority that says who can build and open a Mosque. There also is no central authority that builds Mosques and appoints Imams.

There is a restriction on a man praying before a woman, so therefore if a woman opens a Mosques adult males would be forbidden to pray in it.

However it can be expensive to have a Mosque. they are not money generators and as we do not tithe a woman may have a hard time paying for a Mosque and maintaining the up keep and utility bills.

The huge mosques with all the bells and whistles are usually owned operated by local Muslim groups and as such they will set their own rules and regulations. Personally I will not enter one as I feel they give a poor representation of how and where the majority of Muslims pray.

Here is a picture of the Mosque I most often pray in:



My yard under the 2 trees. Unless it is raining in which case it is indoors in the library.

But over all any woman can open her own Mosque and have anyone she desires to be the Imam, including her self.
A bit off topic, but for those who are curious here is where My wife an I live. A little "Hobby Farm" about 10 miles from any town linits and the nearest town is very small




We only recently acquired the farm and love it. Got to move from the big city of Marion (Population 100) and now live out in the real boon docks, complete with all dirt roads, no primary utilities (we are mostly off-grid) The quiet and solitude are fantastic, just the sounds of the Farm critters and any spot we choose is our Mosque, under those 2 trees has become our favorite spot to set our prayer rugs.
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Old 06-02-2016, 08:05 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
This is a very good post, Continuum.

This is a very good post looking at Islam from a remote view point (outside the box). From inside the box, it is not Islam that must be organized but those who are Muslims. They can be organized only if they are educated properly. Imams and clerics are not going to educate them properly because most of these imams and clerics themselves are not educated properly. Therefore, there is need for a proper education system in Islamic countries so that the terrorists (who are more political than religious) do not have a free passage to teach children.
Cleric in Islam
He believes in all verses of the Koran
this is surat -AL-maeda-verese 34
But a penalty who fight Allah and His Messenger and spread mischief on earth to be killed or crucified, or cut off their hands and feet from opposite or banished from the earth so their disgrace in this world and theirs in the Hereafter a great punishment (33) except those who repent before you overpower them know that Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (34
Also
surat -al-toba-verse 5
When the sacred months then kill the idolaters wherever ye find and take them and count them and sit you for them all repent, and establish regular prayers and regular charity, then leave their way Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (5)
also-
suraal-anval-verse 60)
Prepare against them what force you can and horses Trhabon( terrorism) the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides God, they know not to teach them what you spend nothing in the way of Allah provide you and you do not unjustly (60)
These are some of the verses that taught
These verses effectively
In Islamic history
At this time also
This is why Muslim character is affected in these verses
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Old 06-02-2016, 08:13 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
A bit off topic, but for those who are curious here is where My wife an I live. A little "Hobby Farm" about 10 miles from any town linits and the nearest town is very small




We only recently acquired the farm and love it. Got to move from the big city of Marion (Population 100) and now live out in the real boon docks, complete with all dirt roads, no primary utilities (we are mostly off-grid) The quiet and solitude are fantastic, just the sounds of the Farm critters and any spot we choose is our Mosque, under those 2 trees has become our favorite spot to set our prayer rugs.
These are personal propaganda
We discuss Islam intellectually
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Old 06-02-2016, 08:13 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
Cleric in Islam
He believes in all verses of the Koran
this is surat -AL-maeda-verese 34
But a penalty who fight Allah and His Messenger and spread mischief on earth to be killed or crucified, or cut off their hands and feet from opposite or banished from the earth so their disgrace in this world and theirs in the Hereafter a great punishment (33) except those who repent before you overpower them know that Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (34
Also
surat -al-toba-verse 5
When the sacred months then kill the idolaters wherever ye find and take them and count them and sit you for them all repent, and establish regular prayers and regular charity, then leave their way Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (5)
also-
suraal-anval-verse 60)
Prepare against them what force you can and horses Trhabon( terrorism) the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides God, they know not to teach them what you spend nothing in the way of Allah provide you and you do not unjustly (60)
These are some of the verses that taught
These verses effectively
In Islamic history
At this time also
This is why Muslim character is affected in these verses
Any Muslim with even a minuscule level of Islamic knowledge knows ayyat 9:5 is in reference to a specific time, place situation and purpose. It is not a command nor something we are permitted to do.
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Old 06-02-2016, 08:56 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Any Muslim with even a minuscule level of Islamic knowledge knows ayyat 9:5 is in reference to a specific time, place situation and purpose. It is not a command nor something we are permitted to do.
Koran the word of God is valid in all times and places

It legislative mandates
Do you think that these particular verses at one stage????
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Old 06-02-2016, 09:08 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,908 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
like all Muslims all Women are Imams. for most Muslims the first Imam they pray behind is their mother. Some women have opened mosques More women have opened mosqes in China than imen have.

There is nothing preventing a woman from opening a mosque. there is no central authority that says who can build and open a Mosque. There also is no central authority that builds Mosques and appoints Imams.

There is a restriction on a man praying before a woman, so therefore if a woman opens a Mosques adult males would be forbidden to pray in it.

However it can be expensive to have a Mosque. they are not money generators and as we do not tithe a woman may have a hard time paying for a Mosque and maintaining the up keep and utility bills.

The huge mosques with all the bells and whistles are usually owned operated by local Muslim groups and as such they will set their own rules and regulations. Personally I will not enter one as I feel they give a poor representation of how and where the majority of Muslims pray.

But over all any woman can open her own Mosque and have anyone she desires to be the Imam, including her self.
So, imam is synonymous with muslim. There are no requirements like knowing the quran or knowing the prayers. Every woman is an imam but cannot lead prayers in front of men. Why is that?

What I read elsewhere on Islamic sites is that the most knowledgeable person re the quran and prayers should lead prayer (be imam). Are there muslims who never lead prayer and are therefore never imams?

How many mosques in the muslim countries are run by women?
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Old 06-02-2016, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
So, imam is synonymous with muslim. There are no requirements like knowing the quran or knowing the prayers. Every woman is an imam but cannot lead prayers in front of men. Why is that?

What I read elsewhere on Islamic sites is that the most knowledgeable person re the quran and prayers should lead prayer (be imam). Are there muslims who never lead prayer and are therefore never imams?

How many mosques in the muslim countries are run by women?

Being an Imam is not exactly like being ordained. Anyone leading the prayers is an Imam. It is our responsibility to personally choose who to pray behind. The only real prohibition is an adult male is not to pray facing where he can see a woman's butt poked up in the air. We are there to pray not to enjoy a twerking exhibition.

In Morocco where the Mosques are built by the Country and Imams are hired as state employees. There is a current trend to hire women as Imams. but calling them Mourchidat "Spiritual guides" instead of Imams and reserving the name Imam for men only. However their duties are the same as an Imam.

Morocco trains female spiritual guides to fight extremism | PBS NewsHour

There is no central religious authority that chooses Imams. the choice of an Imam is based upon who constructs the Mosque. (Typically Imams are not hired and not paid and have no religious authority) We have no ordained clergy, there are no type of religious schools for training clerics. (There actually are a few, but not many) The typical Imam has not specific religious training. In remote rural villages it usually ends up being the wealthiest man as he is usually the only one that can afford to build a Mosque.

World wide except for the large Mosques the Imam has no training. The vast Majority of Imams use their House as a Mosque.

as we do not have any ordained clergy every Muslim is considered clergy.

To become an Imam, you will need to be the most learned in the religion amongst your respective congregation. The Prophet (may Allah bless him and give him peace) said: “The Imam of a people should be the one who is most versed in the book of Allah; if they are equal in their recital then, the one who is most knowledgeable of the sunnah; if they are equal in the sunnah then, it is the one who migrated first if they are equal in that, then the eldest.” (Reported by Muslim from Abi Masood) - See more at: Sheikh Hatem Al Haj :: QA Section :: Ideology and Thought :: Q: Clergy System in Islam

The result of the lack of ordained priesthood is overwhelmingly positive, even though, at times it seems to have negative consequences.
One of the positive consequences is the intellectual freedom it affords, because no one speaks on behalf of God.
In addition, the lack of ordained priesthood protected the religion from being under the control of a few elite clergy.
Henceforth, clergy are more likely to be exploited by the rulers if the “ultimate truth” was thought to be possessed by their upper cast.
The clergy is not immune from criticism and being faulted, as was, and may be still, the case in other religions. They are accountable and answerable to their congregation. Any one from the congregation may contest the position of the imam and all they need to do is to present their evidence from the revelation or through reasoning. In fact, it was reported that a woman stood in the Mosque and contested the position of Omar, the second caliph in the middle of his speech, and he did nothing but accept her position and recede from his own.
The lack of distinction between the “men of God” and the “men of this world” in Islam, where all are supposed to be of this world serving the cause of God protected the religion from being regarded by the public as the property of the clergy.
All Muslims feel they are all responsible for the religion, which is theirs’, not someone else’s. This is also more conducive to equality and the absence of a barrier between the so called “clergy” and the so called “public”. The Muslim scholars are part of the public and the public aspires to earn more knowledge to become scholars. - See more at: Sheikh Hatem Al Haj :: QA Section :: Ideology and Thought :: Q: Clergy System in Islam

This lack of ordained clergy makes all Muslims equally qualified to serve as Imams or any form of clergy. Anyone can build a Mosque and appoint them self Imam. the size of the congregation will determine if people want to pray behind that person. It is our obligation to only pray behingd a person who knows at least as much about Islam as we do.

There is np prohibition for women to be Imams. but there is a prohibition for sexually mature males to pray behind a female. Without going into details the view from behind of a woman prostrated in sajood can be quite provocative. although personally I am too old to be interested in peeking at naked hinnies.

On the other hand, there seems to have been many more female Islamic Scholars than male. A woman does not have to prostrate in front of males to be a scholar.
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Old 01-17-2017, 08:48 PM
 
Location: New York Area
15,870 posts, read 6,248,592 times
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I have one question, directed primarily to Woodrow LI; isn't the lack of any organizational structure at all at a severe tension with participating in the modern world? Isn't it true, as we speak, that some renegades are committing horrible atrocities in the name of Islam and Islam is helpless to intervene and guide followers on the right path?If even an imam shouldn't preach and teach, who should?
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