How is IslamStructured and organized? (heaven, language, hell, prayer)

[jbgusa]

Originally Posted by Woodrow LI

The same could be said about criminals in every nation. Terrorism is a criminal act and no different from any other criminal act. No criminal obeys any religious teaching. Organized Religion has not been able to control the Mexican drug cartels, which commit numerous acts of terrorism in Mexico and the USA. Virtually every member of Mexican drug cartels are Roman Catholic, which is very strongly organized.

True as far as it goes.

Originally Posted by Woodrow LI

Also keep in mind, world wide the majority of people killed by "Islamic" terrorists have been Muslims. They are very much anti-Islam. They would never listen to a Muslim cleric. If they have a unified goal that goal seems to be the destruction of Islam and an elimination of all Muslims.

Although Islam is not an organization, Muslims world wide do frequently rise up and condemn terrorists, especially those who claim to be Muslim.

So why then are

*****

The terrorists do not pay any attention to Muslims, because they do not perform Islam. They are criminals no different than the terrorists in the Mexican drug cartels and they will not abide by any religious rules or guidelines.[/quote]So why then are virtually all the atrocities, such as the Kenyan & Tanzanian embassy attacks, September 11, March 11, 2004 Train Attacks in Spain, July 11, 2005 subway attacks in London, attempted airplane downings during summer 2006, the Charlie Hebdo/HyperKosher attacks in Paris in January 2015, the Paris attacks in November 2015, the Brussels attack early in 2016, and the recent Nice and Berlin sidewalk rammings Muslim in origin? And why the rhetoric in many of those either about the Crusades or Israel?

If Islam had some organizational structure wouldn't there by a way to cut those vermin off from their support structure in the Muslim community, including the mosques where they pray five times a day?

[Khalif]

Originally Posted by jbgusa

So why then are virtually all the atrocities, such as the Kenyan & Tanzanian embassy attacks, September 11, March 11, 2004 Train Attacks in Spain, July 11, 2005 subway attacks in London, attempted airplane downings during summer 2006, the Charlie Hebdo/HyperKosher attacks in Paris in January 2015, the Paris attacks in November 2015, the Brussels attack early in 2016, and the recent Nice and Berlin sidewalk rammings Muslim in origin?

Someone isn't Muslim in origin but someone who performs "islam" is a Muslim.

The majority of Muslims are peaceful people but I am sure you won't hear about them in the news as Muslim in origin.

Originally Posted by jbgusa

And why the rhetoric in many of those either about the Crusades or Israel?

I think it's because both of them have something in common with terrorists; all three parties have killed people including women and children.

Originally Posted by jbgusa

If Islam had some organizational structure wouldn't there by a way to cut those vermin off from their support structure in the Muslim community, including the mosques where they pray five times a day?

Islam is performed in the best interests of one's own soul to begin with. It can be performed anywhere, even in jungle, alone or with others. One does not need a building to perform it in. The same way, a Muslim does not need to go to a mosque or be part of an Islamic party or neighborhood to perform Islam.

Terrorists are political activists but some may present themselves as religious people to recruit more political activists. Nobody is safe from them; not even Muslims. I am not surprised that you are not interested in these terrorists killing Muslims. You haven't mentioned even a single atrocity by these terrorists against Muslims. You have just proven that you care more about some right charlies in Paris than more than 140 Muslim children killed in a school in Peshawar, Pakistan.

[mahasn sawresho]

Originally Posted by Woodrow LI

I studied Christianity for over 40 years as a Christian lay person and a Minister. Not only on my own but also in college and seminary. I spent a large part of my life preaching Christianity from the pulpit and teaching the Bible to non-Christians.

I find the Qur'an to be more beautiful, honest and more peaceful than the Bible.

But, I will not bash the Bible nor demean Christianity. I will only speak of the love, beauty and peace I have found in Islam and the Qur'an. One will never convert a person by belittling and espousing hatred of what the person believes.

A person who speaks hatred and disdain of another person's religion shows ignorance of their own religion and dishonors their own religion. They are a terrorist attempting to use hateful words as a weapon of destruction.

I think he should be sent to these words of the author of the Koran
For any peace talk
The word kill and fight more than 95 times in the Qur'an came
Christ says God so loved the world
While Mohammed says
God commanded me to fight the people
The Koran says that man is the enemy of God
And either your personal experience, it is not important
And if you think that the Koran give you peace
You should see the following verse
And in Arabic وان منكم لواردها وكان امر ربك حكما مقضيا
I believe that Islam is to give you an invitation card to visit hell
Look at this verse in all the books of ancient and modern Islamic
The hell you will see that the visit is of peremptory verdicts
Congratulations to you and visit successful

[mahasn sawresho]

Originally Posted by Khalif

Someone isn't Muslim in origin but someone who performs "islam" is a Muslim.

The majority of Muslims are peaceful people but I am sure you won't hear about them in the news as Muslim in origin.

I think it's because both of them have something in common with terrorists; all three parties have killed people including women and children.

Islam is performed in the best interests of one's own soul to begin with. It can be performed anywhere, even in jungle, alone or with others. One does not need a building to perform it in. The same way, a Muslim does not need to go to a mosque or be part of an Islamic party or neighborhood to perform Islam.

Terrorists are political activists but some may present themselves as religious people to recruit more political activists. Nobody is safe from them; not even Muslims. I am not surprised that you are not interested in these terrorists killing Muslims. You haven't mentioned even a single atrocity by these terrorists against Muslims. You have just proven that you care more about some right charlies in Paris than more than 140 Muslim children killed in a school in Peshawar, Pakistan.

In all ages there are criminals
And crime have different reasons
Including the desire for power and the search for money
And this can not say that crime is terrorism
Terrorism, especially in the particular type of this crime, the word
Terrorism stems from the ideology and doctrine
Criminals in Mexico or America or in the countries of the Islamic Aantalegon of doctrine and also do not have the unified ideology
While Islamic terrorism stems from the ideology and doctrine
Organize terror
The words of the Koran launches the word terrorism to Islam as an adjective dogmatic واعدو لهم ما استطعتم من قوة ورباط الخيل ترهبون به عدو الله وعدوكم And developed the principles them what force you can and horses terrorism, the enemy of Allah and your enemy
Here the doctrine and ideology
It is the common denominator among Muslims in their history
Koran says that polytheists impure انما المشركون نجس
Polytheists impure
And also the Islamic faith and its intellectual Quran and verses of the Koran
Declares Jihad declares fighting
As a result of this belief it produces terrorists throughout the ages
And to this day
The goal of the Islamic faith to have the whole world Islamic
This is a big problem
He ideological disease
And humanitarian missions to announce its position
From this Islamic terrorism
And address the roots which are the teachings of Islam
That spread hatred and hatred

[Woodrow LI]

Originally Posted by jbgusa

True as far as it goes.

So why then are

*****

The terrorists do not pay any attention to Muslims, because they do not perform Islam. They are criminals no different than the terrorists in the Mexican drug cartels and they will not abide by any religious rules or guidelines. So why then are virtually all the atrocities, such as the Kenyan & Tanzanian embassy attacks, September 11, March 11, 2004 Train Attacks in Spain, July 11, 2005 subway attacks in London, attempted airplane downings during summer 2006, the Charlie Hebdo/HyperKosher attacks in Paris in January 2015, the Paris attacks in November 2015, the Brussels attack early in 2016, and the recent Nice and Berlin sidewalk rammings Muslim in origin? And why the rhetoric in many of those either about the Crusades or Israel?

If Islam had some organizational structure wouldn't there by a way to cut those vermin off from their support structure in the Muslim community, including the mosques where they pray five times a day?

Khalif gave a good aswer

Originally Posted by Khalif

Someone isn't Muslim in origin but someone who performs "islam" is a Muslim.

The majority of Muslims are peaceful people but I am sure you won't hear about them in the news as Muslim in origin.

I think it's because both of them have something in common with terrorists; all three parties have killed people including women and children.

Islam is performed in the best interests of one's own soul to begin with. It can be performed anywhere, even in jungle, alone or with others. One does not need a building to perform it in. The same way, a Muslim does not need to go to a mosque or be part of an Islamic party or neighborhood to perform Islam.

Terrorists are political activists but some may present themselves as religious people to recruit more political activists. Nobody is safe from them; not even Muslims. I am not surprised that you are not interested in these terrorists killing Muslims. You haven't mentioned even a single atrocity by these terrorists against Muslims. You have just proven that you care more about some right charlies in Paris than more than 140 Muslim children killed in a school in Peshawar, Pakistan.

Adding to what Khalif said.

Islam is not an organization. Islam is not the name of any particular organization, it is almost synonymous with the word monotheism.


Many, probably most Muslims do not pray in a Mosque. We might drop into the closest one because of the weather at prayer time. There is of obligation to pray in a Mosque. Technically anyplace we pray is our Mosque. We have no obligation to "Tithe" Many Mosques world wide are supported completely by the personal resources of the Imam. There is no central "Authority" that approves the construction of a Mosque. There is no central agency that finances Mosques, appoints Imams etc.

There are even many Muslims unaware they are Muslims. Nearly 4/5 ths of the people on earth are not even aware that at one time they where Muslim. Every human from the time of their birth until they reach the age of being able to make a freewill informed choice is performing Islam

To organize all Muslims into a single group with a central authority is like trying to organize all Theists into a single organization. There are probably millions of groups comprised of people claiming to be Muslims none of them represents nor can speak for all Muslims.

[Khalif]

Islam is a personal matter between an individual and His Creator (God).

Islam cannot be organized into an organization. Political parties are organized. Democracy in many countries is organized. None of such organizing has stopped such organizations from wars and killings in millions. What did an organized religion like Catholic church produce other than child abuse by their priests? Such organization do not work as they are presented to be working. The only thing that will work is each person being educated to be peaceful towards others. This is the best way to achieve peace. Greed of people like Bush and Trump will never achieve peace.

[jbgusa]

Originally Posted by Woodrow LI

There are even many Muslims unaware they are Muslims. Nearly 4/5 ths of the people on earth are not even aware that at one time they where Muslim. Every human from the time of their birth until they reach the age of being able to make a freewill informed choice is performing Islam

To organize all Muslims into a single group with a central authority is like trying to organize all Theists into a single organization. There are probably millions of groups comprised of people claiming to be Muslims none of them represents nor can speak for all Muslims.

Then why did Islam spread in a warlike manner within a century or two of Mohamed's life? What happened to the practice of Christianity in, say, Egypt? Why are Copts heavily persecuted? Is it each individual Egyptian doing this independently?

[Woodrow LI]

Originally Posted by jbgusa

Then why did Islam spread in a warlike manner within a century or two of Mohamed's life? What happened to the practice of Christianity in, say, Egypt? Why are Copts heavily persecuted? Is it each individual Egyptian doing this independently?

There are numerous perhaps even millions of groups consisting of people wearing the name of Muslims, but typically they are not interconnected and represent only them self.

People in a locality that have similar concepts tend to group together.

Islam never did spread in a warlike manner, not even in the early days. It is an impossibility to force someone to perform Islam as the first requirement is a Muslim of his own free will and informed choice must sincerely believe "There is only one God(swt) who has no equals, partners or progeny and only He is to be worshiped"

In nearly every nation the Arabs invaded the majority of the population remained non-Muslim. The nations with the largest Muslim populations were never invaded. (ie: Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore) The main expansion of Islam has been Eastward with no invasions. The nations that were invaded typically had few converts to Islam.

The Copts in Egypt are persecuted by individuals or individual groups, has nothing to do with the majority of Muslims in Egypt. The Egyptian Government is actually sympathetic towards the Copts.

Copts Increasingly Involved in Egyptian Politics, Researchers Say

[mahasn sawresho]

Originally Posted by Woodrow LI

I studied Christianity for over 40 years as a Christian lay person and a Minister. Not only on my own but also in college and seminary. I spent a large part of my life preaching Christianity from the pulpit and teaching the Bible to non-Christians.

I find the Qur'an to be more beautiful, honest and more peaceful than the Bible.

But, I will not bash the Bible nor demean Christianity. I will only speak of the love, beauty and peace I have found in Islam and the Qur'an. One will never convert a person by belittling and espousing hatred of what the person believes.

A person who speaks hatred and disdain of another person's religion shows ignorance of their own religion and dishonors their own religion. They are a terrorist attempting to use hateful words as a weapon of destruction.

This is Islam rejects democracy
Are you with the destruction of democracy in your country

[jbgusa]

Originally Posted by Woodrow LI

There are numerous perhaps even millions of groups consisting of people wearing the name of Muslims, but typically they are not interconnected and represent only them self.

Islamists' activities look interconnected. Maybe appearances are deceiving.

Originally Posted by Woodrow LI

People in a locality that have similar concepts tend to group together.

What kind of groups? How organized, in the case of Islam?

Originally Posted by Woodrow LI

Islam never did spread in a warlike manner, not even in the early days. It is an impossibility to force someone to perform Islam as the first requirement is a Muslim of his own free will and informed choice must sincerely believe "There is only one God(swt) who has no equals, partners or progeny and only He is to be worshiped"

Why then was it necessary for Islam to burn down one of the world's great libraries, in Alexandria?

Originally Posted by Woodrow LI

In nearly every nation the Arabs invaded the majority of the population remained non-Muslim.

Which countries, other than ones where they were repulsed, such as Spain, France and Austria?

Originally Posted by Woodrow LI

The nations with the largest Muslim populations were never invaded. (ie: Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore)

Singapore has a strong Muslim minority. It is not Muslim majority.

[quote=Woodrow LI;46892916]The main expansion of Islam has been Eastward with no invasions. [/quoe]How did Islam spread from modern-day Israel to Morocco? By osmosis?

Originally Posted by Woodrow LI

The nations that were invaded typically had few converts to Islam.

Egypt? Libya?. Tunisia? Algeria?. Morocco? Those aren't east of the KSA?

Originally Posted by Woodrow LI

The Copts in Egypt are persecuted by individuals or individual groups, has nothing to do with the majority of Muslims in Egypt. The Egyptian Government is actually sympathetic towards the Copts.

Copts Increasingly Involved in Egyptian Politics, Researchers Say

Under the Muslim Brotherhood life wasn't so peachy. And there are repeated riots and arson attacks against them.