U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-01-2016, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
Reputation: 7407

Advertisements

That is a somewhat multifaceted question as it addresses several things.

Hopefully we can keep this on topic. the goal is to bring about unerstanding of the following things.As all are related I think a single thered is best. The topics I hope we can clarify.

1. What are Islamic titles and who appoints them? Here Perhaps we should keep with the Titlles most often heard. Imam, Shiekh, Mullah, Mufti, Aytoullah, Muezzein, Scholar and Caliph

2. How does a person become an Imam?

3. Who decides where a Mosque will be built and who pays for it?

4. How is Islam organized?

Working backwards:

Islam is not organized. there is no overseeing by any "Islamic Leader" It is all about personal Responsibility.
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-01-2016, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
Reputation: 7407
Unlike many other religions Islam does not have any living person that is the Authority. There is no agency that ordains clergy, there is no Hiring of clergy.No human leades required.. There is no central agency that does things like traing an hiring clergy. Approves the constructions of mosques and pays for them.

Every person on earth can build a Mosque even non-Muslims can do so. Any person who desires to be an Imam can call himself an Imam,no appointment or hiring required.
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2016, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
Reputation: 7407
How are Imam's chosen? There probably almost as many ways as there are Imams. Many are self appointed. they begin by setting a room aside in their house as a mosque and if the local muslim population grows, they expand the size.

There is no central authority that over sees the construction of a Mosque or finances one. It is all done by individuals or local groups. Sometimes wealthy individuals will choose to build a mosque and may hire an Imam to take care of it. Anyone can build a Mosque any place they choose, as long as it meets local laws. Even a non-muslim could build a Mosque if they desired to. I think some non-Muslim governments do such to control the area they want Muslims to live in.

In the US the majority of Mosques are individuals simply having a room in their house set aside as as Mosque. The larger, highly visible Mosques, are often the the joint effort of local Muslim business men.

As to how a person becomes an Imam. There are no central requirements. We as individuals are to not pray behind anyone who knows less about leading the Salat than we do.

In other words we as individuals need to be certain the Imam is actually doing what an Imam is supposed to do. Lead the salat, Keep the Mosque clean and neat, be responsible and able to financially afford the expenses of a Mosque ie Taxes, utility bills, repairs etc. If the Imam can not do better then we can, we should consider building our own Mosque.

For large community Mosques, that all comes to be a joint effort of the community and every person in the community should perform some role of the Imam.

For myself if I find an Imam is preaching and teaching, I will never return to that mosque.
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2016, 04:47 PM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,278 times
Reputation: 289
Good questions!

Let's first see how others answer the questions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2016, 09:46 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,644 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
How are Imam's chosen? There probably almost as many ways as there are Imams. Many are self appointed. they begin by setting a room aside in their house as a mosque and if the local muslim population grows, they expand the size./
What percent of imam are women?

Can women be imam in front of men?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-02-2016, 12:48 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,682 times
Reputation: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
That is a somewhat multifaceted question as it addresses several things.

Hopefully we can keep this on topic. the goal is to bring about unerstanding of the following things.As all are related I think a single thered is best. The topics I hope we can clarify.

1. What are Islamic titles and who appoints them? Here Perhaps we should keep with the Titlles most often heard. Imam, Shiekh, Mullah, Mufti, Aytoullah, Muezzein, Scholar and Caliph

2. How does a person become an Imam?

3. Who decides where a Mosque will be built and who pays for it?

4. How is Islam organized?

Working backwards:

Islam is not organized. there is no overseeing by any "Islamic Leader" It is all about personal Responsibility.
Express an to answer the question four

How is Islam organized? You believe that Islam is a religion of spiritual only(
Saying: (Islam is a religion and not a state)! It is the things that insists secularists them - irrespective of their colors and affiliations - not be for Islam the state, speaking in his name, and raise its flag in the ground, and apply the provisions of Sharia on the believers, an)d of his letter to the worlds, and defending his land and nation in the face of the invaders and aggressors.)This is not true

Islam is a religion and state
While considered the Islamists - the different sects and schools - that Islam: theology and law, the worship and the treatment, religion and politics, and call state.



The Islamists believe: that the state in Islam: The statute and necessity, a religious duty, and a vital necessity. [1]
A. Either we are Muslims, we must implement this law, the state is implemented, not a specific religious body, or that we are not Muslims, Venhml if the implementation of Islamic law
Evidence that the state at the heart of Islam:

First, the evidence from the Koran:

The first evidence: the verse God commands that trusts to their owners and that when you judge between people you judge with justice, God admonishes you, that God was Nearer, Seer * O ye who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those of you if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer to the God and the Prophet (women: 58-59, These two verses of Nisa "are the basis of the Islamic government, if it does not come down in the Koran other Muslims to Kfatta in it; they are built all the sentences on them." [2]; and that because they are papers containing three pillars of the pillars of governance; first: the necessity of justice and legal guardians, the second: the necessity of obedience to the parish toward guardians, III: Supreme commitment by reference in all the parish varies with their rulers
Says O ye who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those of you if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the Last Day, it is better and better interpretation ([women: 59].



This verse, which indicates that a state monument Imam and drew inference that Allah has enjoined on Muslims rulers whom obedience, and they imams, and it is obedience evidence should be styled guardian; because God does not command obedience from does not exist, does not impose the obedience of its existence delegate, the matter required obedience By creating, finding indicates that the imam of the Muslims and their duty [3].
Fourth directory:

This is the great number of Quranic verses that can not be implemented unless there is the state, they are verses address basically a nation have a system and the rule of force, which are too numerous to count, including the verses that began provisions border: as a theft, adultery, slander, united banditry and the provisions of retribution parental and other sanctions that can not imagine their existence only with the presence of state and government, including the verses regulating behavior and transactions of sale and rental, gift and commandment, and stone and Tbilisi, and other so-called statutory definition of civil law, including the verses proceed provisions of marriage, divorce, alimony and breast-feeding, which can call law: (personal status), and signs had to collect Zakat and determine its banks, and other solidarity, social solidarity and cooperation in righteousness and piety, and all of these things does not it can not be carried out unless governments and states [4]
he (city) is (Dar al-Islam) and the base of the new Islamic state, which was chaired by the Messenger of Allah - God bless him - he is the commander of the Muslims and their imam, and that the prophet and messenger of God to them; and this made the jurists of the types of actions of the Prophet: his disposal under the Imamate or presidency of the state, said the consequent provisions.
Upon the death of the Prophet - peace be upon him - it was the first thing that filled his companions - God bless them - to choose (imam) them, so they gave it to bury it - God bless him - Fbadroa to the allegiance of Abu Bakr, and delivery viewed in their affairs as well as in every age after that, and this historic consensus starting companions and followers - with what we have from the texts - quoted scholars of Islam on the necessity monument imam who is the symbol of the state and entitled; Imam Quraafi says in the thirty-sixth among his disposal rule - peace be upon the difference him - Elimination and base his disposal fatwa (the Report), and base his disposal imam: "I know that the Messenger of Allah - peace be upon him - is the greatest Imam, Mufti more familiar, it is - peace be upon him - the imam of the imams, and the Chief Justice, and the world of scientists, all religious positions mandated by God to him in his letter ...) etc.
It was the Prophet - peace be upon him - inclusive of the two authorities: religious and secular; but this section of the jurists of his actions as a prophet amount from God, and as a judge separates people, and acting as an imam in the nation's issues.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-02-2016, 12:51 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,682 times
Reputation: 204
This answer to the second question
he (city) is (Dar al-Islam) and the base of the new Islamic state, which was chaired by the Messenger of Allah - God bless him - he is the commander of the Muslims and their imam, and that the prophet and messenger of God to them; and this made the jurists of the types of actions of the Prophet: his disposal under the Imamate or presidency of the state, said the consequent provisions.
Upon the death of the Prophet - peace be upon him - it was the first thing that filled his companions - God bless them - to choose (imam) them, so they gave it to bury it - God bless him - Fbadroa to the allegiance of Abu Bakr, and delivery viewed in their affairs as well as in every age after that, and this historic consensus starting companions and followers - with what we have from the texts - quoted scholars of Islam on the necessity monument imam who is the symbol of the state and entitled; Imam Quraafi says in the thirty-sixth among his disposal rule - peace be upon the difference him - Elimination and base his disposal fatwa (the Report), and base his disposal imam: "I know that the Messenger of Allah - peace be upon him - is the greatest Imam, Mufti more familiar, it is - peace be upon him - the imam of the imams, and the Chief Justice, and the world of scientists, all religiou
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-02-2016, 12:55 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,682 times
Reputation: 204
The answer to the third questionFrom the funds of the tribute and the spoils of Muslims
At the present time the oil money and build luxury mosques in Europe, America, Canada and Oayda donations from Muslims
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-02-2016, 01:49 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,581,295 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Working backwards:

Islam is not organized. there is no overseeing by any "Islamic Leader" It is all about personal Responsibility.
Working forward:

1. A Muslim is one who has entered into a covenant with Allah in accordance to its terms and conditions within the 6,236 verses of the Quran.

2. To comply with all the relevant terms and conditions relative to individual Muslims capability, that Muslims must understand the relevant terms to ensure compliance.

3. BUT not all Muslims are literate and has good comprehension of the requirement of the terms and conditions of the covenant in the Quran. Therefore there are those who are very familiar with the terms and conditions to teach the less learned Muslims.

4. In order to achieve the purpose of delivering and facilitating masses of Muslims to be better Muslims efficiently and effectively there is a need for Organization Management based on Organization Theory.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organizational theory [this is one of my forte].
The most effective approach to help masses of Muslims to achieve their goals is to apply Organizational Management.
While organizations has pros, there is a need to be very wary of its cons.

5. There is no obligation that an organization must have a leader. Instead of a leader an organization can be led by a Board of Directors or Management Committee.

6. What is critical here is in such a Islamic organization there is a need to define its mission and ultimate purpose.
The ultimate purpose of an Islamic Organization should be written down to specify that it will help Muslims to be better Muslims based on the 6,236 verses of the Quran and nothing else. This will not leave room for any one to introduce their own agenda because every one can refer to the 6,236 verses in the Quran.

7. The Principles of Organizational Theory is that all organizations must have an efficient structure to support its purpose and objectives. Naturally an organization will follow up with some sort of hierarchy comprising people with different functions, .e.g. Imam, Shiekh, Mullah, Mufti, Ayahtollah, Muezzein, Scholar, and whatever is necessary.

8. At present there are Islamic organizations and Nations but their total interests are not serving the interest of Islam and the spiritual fulfilment of the individual Muslims from the authority of the Quran. Rather most of the present Islamic organizations merely serve their own vested and twisted interests.

9. Therefore with the avoidance of point 8 and other cons, it is imperative that Islam should be driven forward based on an organizational approach to facilitate the masses of average Muslims to be better Muslims. Those who are capable of being better Muslim can do it on a personal approach.

10. Realistically based on 1-9 above Islam must be organized.

That are various verses in the Quran that support the above.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-02-2016, 02:13 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,278 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Working forward:

1. A Muslim is one who has entered into a covenant with Allah in accordance to its terms and conditions within the 6,236 verses of the Quran.

2. To comply with all the relevant terms and conditions relative to individual Muslims capability, that Muslims must understand the relevant terms to ensure compliance.

3. BUT not all Muslims are literate and has good comprehension of the requirement of the terms and conditions of the covenant in the Quran. Therefore there are those who are very familiar with the terms and conditions to teach the less learned Muslims.

4. In order to achieve the purpose of delivering and facilitating masses of Muslims to be better Muslims efficiently and effectively there is a need for Organization Management based on Organization Theory.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organizational theory [this is one of my forte].
The most effective approach to help masses of Muslims to achieve their goals is to apply Organizational Management.
While organizations has pros, there is a need to be very wary of its cons.

5. There is no obligation that an organization must have a leader. Instead of a leader an organization can be led by a Board of Directors or Management Committee.

6. What is critical here is in such a Islamic organization there is a need to define its mission and ultimate purpose.
The ultimate purpose of an Islamic Organization should be written down to specify that it will help Muslims to be better Muslims based on the 6,236 verses of the Quran and nothing else. This will not leave room for any one to introduce their own agenda because every one can refer to the 6,236 verses in the Quran.

7. The Principles of Organizational Theory is that all organizations must have an efficient structure to support its purpose and objectives. Naturally an organization will follow up with some sort of hierarchy comprising people with different functions, .e.g. Imam, Shiekh, Mullah, Mufti, Ayahtollah, Muezzein, Scholar, and whatever is necessary.

8. At present there are Islamic organizations and Nations but their total interests are not serving the interest of Islam and the spiritual fulfilment of the individual Muslims from the authority of the Quran. Rather most of the present Islamic organizations merely serve their own vested and twisted interests.

9. Therefore with the avoidance of point 8 and other cons, it is imperative that Islam should be driven forward based on an organizational approach to facilitate the masses of average Muslims to be better Muslims. Those who are capable of being better Muslim can do it on a personal approach.

10. Realistically based on 1-9 above Islam must be organized.

That are various verses in the Quran that support the above.
This is a very good post, Continuum.

This is a very good post looking at Islam from a remote view point (outside the box). From inside the box, it is not Islam that must be organized but those who are Muslims. They can be organized only if they are educated properly. Imams and clerics are not going to educate them properly because most of these imams and clerics themselves are not educated properly. Therefore, there is need for a proper education system in Islamic countries so that the terrorists (who are more political than religious) do not have a free passage to teach children.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top