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Old 06-04-2016, 01:06 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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verse 11-from surat-al nour

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
It was slander (falsehood) against Aisha. The verses of this surah set the punishment for such slander of a woman without having any proof. You may start a new thread if you want to discuss further. Thank you.
Since you mentioned, I start this thread to discuss the related verses.

The question is there are so many critical matters in the World, why should Allah be so concerned with this particular affairs [scandal] of Aisha.

Btw there is no mentioned of Aisha in the Quran, but let's assume it refer to Aisha.
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Old 06-04-2016, 08:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
verse 11-from surat-al nour



Since you mentioned, I start this thread to discuss the related verses.

The question is there are so many critical matters in the World, why should Allah be so concerned with this particular affairs [scandal] of Aisha.

Btw there is no mentioned of Aisha in the Quran, but let's assume it refer to Aisha.
In the subject there are many red lines
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Old 06-04-2016, 11:04 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
verse 11-from surat-al nour

The question is there are so many critical matters in the World, why should Allah be so concerned with this particular affairs [scandal] of Aisha.
Because false accusation against a respectable woman was a critical matter at the time. It was to protect respectable women from such false accusation. It sets up the legal requirement and the quality of proof in cases of a woman accused of adultery.

Quote:
Btw there is no mentioned of Aisha in the Quran, but let's assume it refer to Aisha.
The verse was revealed soon after the event. You may ignore the name as it isn't in the Qur'an. The critical point is the punishment set for false accusation of adultery.
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Old 06-04-2016, 08:43 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
In the subject there are many red lines
What are the 'red lines' from your perspective?
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Old 06-04-2016, 09:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Because false accusation against a respectable woman was a critical matter at the time. It was to protect respectable women from such false accusation. It sets up the legal requirement and the quality of proof in cases of a woman accused of adultery.

The verse was revealed soon after the event. You may ignore the name as it isn't in the Qur'an. The critical point is the punishment set for false accusation of adultery.
Rape and Adultery

Why are rape victims often punished by Islamic courts as adulterers?

Under Islamic law, rape can only be proven if the rapist confesses or if there are four male witnesses. Women who allege rape without the benefit of the act having been witnessed by four men (who presumably develop a conscience afterwards) are actually confessing to having sex. If they or the accused happens to be married, then it is considered to be adultery.
Quran

Quran (2:282) - Establishes that a woman's testimony is worth only half that of a man's in court (there is no "he said/she said" gridlock in Islam).

Quran (24:4) - "And those who accuse free women then do not bring four witnesses (to adultery), flog them..." Strictly speaking, this verse addresses adultery (revealed at the very time that Muhammad's favorite wife was being accused of adultery on the basis of only three witnesses coincidentally enough). However it is a part of the theological underpinning of the Sharia rule on rape, since if there are not four male witnesses, the rape "did not occur".

Quran (24:13) - "Why did they not bring four witnesses of it? But as they have not brought witnesses they are liars before Allah."

Quran (2:223) - "Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will..." There is no such thing as rape in marriage, as a man is permitted unrestricted sexual access to his wives.

Hadith and Sira

Bukhari (5:59:462) - The background for the Quranic requirement of four witnesses to adultery. Muhammad's favorite wife, Aisha, was accused of cheating [on her polygamous husband]. Three witnesses corroborated the event, but Muhammad apparently did not want to believe it, and so established the arbitrary rule that four witnesses are required.
Notes

Rape of Muslim women is against Islamic law - although the rape of non-Muslim women is not, if they are 'captured in battle' or bought as slaves. Even the rape of a Muslim woman is almost impossible to prove under strict Islamic law (Sharia). If the man claims that the act was consensual sex, there is very little that the woman can do to refute this. Islam places the burden of avoiding sexual encounters of any sort on the woman.

A recent fatwa from a mainstream Islamic site echoes this rule and even chides a victim of incest for complaining when she has no "evidence":
However, it is not permissible to accuse the father of rape without evidence. Indeed, the Sharee’ah put some special conditions for proving Zina (fornication or adultery) that are not required in case of other crimes. The crime of Zina is not confirmed except if the fornicator admits it, or with the testimony of four trustworthy men, while the testimony of women is not accepted.
Hence, the statement of this girl or the statement of her mother in itself does not Islamically prove anything against the father, especially that the latter denies it.
Therefore, if this daughter has no evidence to prove that her accusations are true, she should not have claimed that she was raped by her father and she should not have taken him to the court. (IslamWeb.net, Image)

Since it is incredibly unlikely that a child molester will violate his victim in front of "four trustworthy men", Islamic law amounts to a free pass for sexual predators.

Islamic law rejects forensic evidence (such as DNA) in favor of testimony. An interesting situation thus sometimes develops in cases where a victim alleges rape and the man denies that sex even took place. In the absence of four male witnesses, rape cannot be proven. The woman's testimony then becomes a "confession" of adultery. She can be stoned, even though the male is unpunished, since he never admitted to a sexual act.

Some clerics blame rape on the woman. Australian Sheik Feiz recently said a rape victim "has no one to blame but herself. She displayed her beauty to the entire world... to tease man and appeal to his carnal nature." Even his successor, who was brought in to mitigate the backlash, compared unveiled women to "sweet pastries" tempting hungry men.

One of the world's most respected Sunni scholars, Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, recently told an audience on his al-Jazeera television show that "To be absolved from guilt, the raped woman must have shown some sort of good conduct."

Dr. Abd al-Aziz Fawazan al-Fawzan, a professor of Islamic law said that "If a woman gets raped walking in public alone, then she, herself is at fault. She is only seducing men by her presence. She should have stayed at home like a Muslim woman."

This was echoed by the imam of a Salafist mosque in Cologne, Germany in the wake of the shocking sex abuse rampage by recently arrived Muslims on New Year's Eve in 2015. He explained that "the events" (which included rape) "were the girls' own fault because they were half-naked and wearing perfume."

When it came to light in 2016 that a 13-year-old British girl had been abused by a dozen Pakistani rapists, certain members of the Muslim community said they believed the victim "played her part."

In 2013, Syria's chief Mufti, Sheikh Abd al-Rahman Ali al-Dala, issued a statement that gives soldiers religious permission to rape the women they capture.

There can be also no such thing as rape in a Muslim marriage, even if the husband has to hit the wife in order to bring about her submission. Another recent fatwa reminds a woman, she "does not have the right to refuse her husband, rather she must respond to his request every time he calls her." (Islam Q&A, Fatwa No. 33597).

Keep in mind that most Muslim countries do not operate under strict Islamic law, but rather under legal codes copied from the West. Therefore rape victims in these countries can - and often do - receive justice under more reasonable standards of proof.

Rape and Adultery in Islam
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Old 06-04-2016, 09:07 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Because false accusation against a respectable woman was a critical matter at the time. It was to protect respectable women from such false accusation. It sets up the legal requirement and the quality of proof in cases of a woman accused of adultery.

The verse was revealed soon after the event. You may ignore the name as it isn't in the Qur'an. The critical point is the punishment set for false accusation of adultery.
Assuming the accusation refer to Aisha.

What is so respectable of Aisha who was merely one of the many wives of Muhammad.
Muhammad was merely a warner, conveyor, reminderer, a slave of Allah.
There is nothing seriously respectable when one is amongst the many wives of a man [Muhammad].
If Aisha is a personal favorite of Muhammad, that does not equate to respectability.

If the Quran is fair, that law should be applied to all woman as a human being regardless of their status.

If that is a law, there is an element of misogynism [sex discrimination] when the value of the witness of 1 male is equal to 4 females. What kind of justice is this?

It will make sense in the following reality;

1. The Quran was not authored by God
2. The Quran was authored by humans and Muhammad [who had many wives] was a preacher and the warlord in the background.
3. Muhammad was an old man by then.
4. Aisha was a young lady amongst Muhammad many wives.

Based on the above one can generate realistic probabilities that make sense and why Chapter 24:11-26 was raised.
It is most likely verse 24:11-16 was one of those Just-in-Time revelations cooked up to deal with a slander not for Aisha but more for the husband's ego.
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Old 06-04-2016, 11:03 PM
 
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We should also remember that:
1. Muhammed raped her when she was 9 years old.
2. Muhammed hit her.
3. Muhammed let another man slap her.
4. Muhammed made her clean up gobs of sperm from his clothing.
5. Muhammed fondled her when she was on her menses, which is forbidden.
6. Muhammed was having sex with many women (his many other wives, his slaves, captive women) while he was having sex with Aisha.
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Old 06-04-2016, 11:31 PM
 
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Narrated Aisha: (the wife of The Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessing of Allah be upon him))
"Whenever Allah's Apostle intended to go on a journey, he would draw lots amongst his wives and would take with him the one upon whom the lot fell.


During a Ghazwa of his, he drew lots amongst us and the lot fell upon me, and I proceeded with him after Allah had decreed the use of the veil by women.

I was carried in a Howdah (on the camel) and dismounted while still in it. When Allah's Apostle was through with his Ghazwa and returned home, and we approached the city of Medina, Allah's Apostle ordered us to proceed at night. When the order of setting off was given, I walked till I was past the army to answer the call of nature.

After finishing I returned (to the camp) to depart (with the others) and suddenly realized that my necklace over my chest was missing.
So, I returned to look for it and was delayed because of that. The people who used to carry me on the camel, came to my Howdah and put it on the back of the camel, thinking that I was in it, as, at that time, women were light in weight, and thin and lean, and did not use to eat much.

So, those people did not feel the difference in the heaviness of the Howdah while lifting it, and they put it over the camel. At that time I was a young lady. They set the camel moving and proceeded on.

I found my necklace after the army had gone, and came to their camp to find nobody. So, I went to the place where I used to stay, thinking that they would discover my absence and come back in my search. While in that state, I felt sleepy and slept.

Safwan bin Mu'attal As-Sulami Adh-Dhakwani was behind the army and reached my abode in the morning. When he saw a sleeping person, he came to me, and he used to see me before veiling. So, I got up when I heard him saying, "Inna lil-lah-wa inn a ilaihi rajiun (We are for Allah, and we will return to Him)."

He made his camel knell down. He got down from his camel, and put his leg on the front legs of the camel and then I rode and sat over it.

Safwan set out walking, leading the camel by the rope till we reached the army who had halted to take rest at midday.

Then whoever was meant for destruction, fell into destruction, (some people accused me falsely) and the leader of the false accusers was 'Abdullah bin Ubai bin Salul.

After that we returned to Medina, and I became ill for one month while the people were spreading the forged statements of the false accusers.

I was feeling during my ailment as if I were not receiving the usual kindness from the Prophet which I used to receive from him
when I got sick.

But he would come, greet and say, 'How is that (girl)?' I did not know anything of what was going on till I recovered from my ailment and went out with Um Mistah to the Manasi where we used to answer the call of nature, and we used not to go to answer the call of nature except from night to night and that was before we had lavatories near to our houses.

And this habit of ours was similar to the habit of the old 'Arabs in the open country (or away from houses). So. I and Um Mistah bint Ruhm went out walking. Um Mistah stumbled because of her long dress and on that she said, 'Let Mistah be ruined.'

I said, 'You are saying a bad word. Why are you abusing a man who took part in (the battle of) Badr?'

She said, 'O Hanata (you there) didn't you hear what they said?'

Then she told me the rumors of the false accusers. My sickness was aggravated, and when I returned home, Allah's Apostle came to me, and after greeting he said, 'How is that (girl)?' I requested him to allow me to go to my parents.

I wanted then to be sure of the news through them I Allah's Apostle allowed me, and I went to my parents and asked my mother, 'What are the people talking about?'

She said, 'O my daughter! Don't worry much about this matter. By Allah, never is there a charming woman loved by her husband who has other wives, but the women would forge false news about her.'

I said, 'Glorified be Allah! Are the people really taking of this matter?'

That night I kept on weeping and could not sleep till morning. In the morning Allah's Apostle called Ali bin Abu Talib and Usama bin Zaid when he saw the Divine Inspiration delayed, to consul them about divorcing his wife (i.e. 'Aisha).

Usama bin Zaid said what he knew of the good reputation of his wives and added, 'O Allah's Apostle! Keep you wife, for, by Allah, we know nothing about her but good.' '

Ali bin Abu Talib said, 'O Allah's Apostle! Allah has no imposed restrictions on you, and there are many women other than she, yet you may ask the woman-servant who will tell you the truth.'

On that Allah's Apostle called Buraira and said, 'O Burair. Did you ever see anything which roused your suspicions about her?'

Buraira said, 'No, by Allah Who has sent you with the Truth, I have never seen in her anything faulty except that she is a girl of immature age, who sometimes sleeps and leaves the dough for the goats to eat.'

On that day Allah's Apostle ascended the pulpit and requested that somebody support him in punishing 'Abdullah bin Ubai bin Salul.

Allah's Apostle said, 'Who will support me to punish that person ('Abdullah bin Ubai bin Salul) who has hurt me by slandering the reputation of my family? By Allah, I know nothing about my family but good, and they have accused a person about whom I know nothing except good, and he never entered my house except in my company.'

Sad bin Mu'adh got up and said, 'O Allah's Apostle! by Allah, I will relieve you from him. If that man is from the tribe of the Aus, then we will chop his head off, and if he is from our brothers, the Khazraj, then order us, and we will fulfill your order.'

On that Sad bin 'Ubada, the chief of the Khazraj and before this incident, he had been a pious man, got up, motivated by his zeal for his tribe and said, 'By Allah, you have told a lie; you cannot kill him, and you will never be able to kill him.'

On that Usaid bin Al-Hadir got up and said (to Sad bin 'Ubada), 'By Allah! you are a liar. By Allah, we will kill him; and you are a hypocrite, defending the hypocrites.'

On this the two tribes of Aus and Khazraj got excited and were about to fight each other, while Allah's Apostle was standing on the pulpit. He got down and quietened them till they became silent and he kept quiet.


On that day I kept on weeping so much so that neither did my tears stop, nor could I sleep. In the morning my parents were with me and I had wept for two nights and a day, till I thought my liver would burst from weeping.

While they were sitting with me and I was weeping, an Ansari woman asked my permission to enter, and I allowed her to come in. She sat down and started weeping with me.

While we were in this state, Allah's Apostle came and sat down and he had never sat with me since the day they forged the accusation.

No revelation regarding my case came to him for a month.

He recited Tashah-hud (i.e. None has the right to be worshipped but Allah and Muhammad is His Apostle) and then said,

'O 'Aisha! I have been informed such-and-such about you;
if you are innocent, then Allah will soon reveal your innocence, and if you have committed a sin, then repent to Allah and ask Him to forgive you, for when a person confesses his sin and asks Allah for forgiveness, Allah accepts his repentance.'


When Allah's Apostle finished his speech my tears ceased completely and there remained not even a single drop of it.

I requested my father to reply to Allah's Apostle on my behalf.

My father said, By Allah, I do not know what to say to Allah's Apostle.'

I said to my mother, 'Talk to Allah's Apostle on my behalf.'

She said, 'By Allah, I do not know what to say to Allah's Apostle.

I was a young girl and did not have much knowledge of the Quran. I said. 'I know, by Allah, that you have listened to what people are saying and that has been planted in your minds and you have taken it as a truth. Now, if I told you that I am innocent and Allah knows that I am innocent, you would not believe me
and if I confessed to you falsely that I am guilty, and Allah knows that I am innocent you would believe me.
By Allah, I don't compare my situation with you except to the situation of Joseph's father (i.e. Jacob) who said, 'So (for me) patience is most fitting against that which you assert and it is Allah (Alone) whose help can be sought.'

Then I turned to the other side of my bed hoping that Allah would prove my innocence.

By Allah I never thought that Allah would reveal Divine Inspiration in my case, as I considered myself too inferior to be talked of in the Holy Qur'an. I had hoped that Allah's Apostle might have a dream in which Allah would prove my innocence. By Allah, Allah's Apostle had not got up and nobody had left the house before the Divine Inspiration came to Allah's Apostle.

So, there overtook him the same state which used to overtake him, (when he used to have, on being inspired divinely).

He was sweating so much so that the drops of the sweat were dropping like pearls though it was a (cold) wintry day.

When that state of Allah's Apostle was over, he was smiling and the first word he said,

'Aisha! Thank Allah, for Allah has declared your innocence.'

My mother told me to go to Allah's Apostle .

I replied, 'By Allah I will not go to him and will not thank but Allah.'

So Allah revealed: "Verily! They who spread the slander are a gang among you . . ." (24.11)

When Allah gave the declaration of my Innocence, Abu Bakr, who used to provide for Mistah bin Uthatha for he was his relative, said, '
By Allah, I will never provide Mistah with anything because of what he said about Aisha.'

But Allah later revealed: -- "And let not those who are good and wealthy among you swear not to help their kinsmen, those in need and those who left their homes in Allah's Cause. Let them forgive and overlook. Do you not wish that Allah should forgive you? Verily! Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful." (24.22)

After that Abu Bakr said, 'Yes ! By Allah! I like that Allah should forgive me,'

and resumed helping Mistah whom he used to help before.

Allah's Apostle also asked Zainab bint Jahsh (i.e. the Prophet's wife about me saying, 'What do you know and what did you see?' She replied, 'O Allah's Apostle! I refrain to claim hearing or seeing what I have not heard or seen. By Allah, I know nothing except goodness about Aisha."

Aisha further added "Zainab was competing with me (in her beauty and the Prophet's love),
yet Allah protected her (from being malicious), for she had piety."
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Old 06-05-2016, 12:41 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
What are the 'red lines' from your perspective?
When you talk about the personality of Muhammad
I share in another forum because of these red lines
Expelled me from that Forum
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Old 06-05-2016, 01:35 AM
 
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Aisha betrayal or suspicion of cheating
Muslims wrote in a blog
We did not invent this novel
For this reason, we must offer a brief on the characters of the novel
Aisha is Girl of Abu Bakr
Abu Bakr is the husband of the Messenger of Allah girl and his surnamed Alnorin
Safwan bin al-muatel from the tribe of Aws leaders
Muhammad married Aisha, a messenger of God
After that we knew the novel personalities
Ask the following questions
Why Mohammed wait a full month as the says of the novel????
Where was God???
god was felt sorrow Mohammed Habiba and misery Aisha???Why waitWhy waitWhy wait a full month to declare the innocence of Aisha???
It is known that God saved the prophet in difficult situations and come down mandates lightning speed
God has sent mandates quickly Jews of Bani Agaynha

God did not wait months to know whether the Jews broke with the Prophet Maahidthm

Is Aisha and her honor is better than the blood of Jews who were slaughtered Mohammed????Wait answer these questions and then I will put another question which is also important
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