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Old 06-10-2016, 10:54 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,035,813 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Muslims celebrate terror attacks. That does not mean every single Muslim does, or doesn't.
When you write "Muslims", you do mean "all Muslims" or else you would write "some Muslims". You do not write "some Muslims" because you hate all Muslims.

Quote:
But there are large, public celebrations and also private celebrations.
That means you are accusing all Muslims; proof or no proof.

Quote:
Here is an example:
"Why did Muslims migrate to Abyssinia"
Why did Muslims migrate to Abyssinia?

Does that mean every single Muslim migrated to this place? You are dropping context!!
You are dropping the context. To you every single Muslim celebrated in public and private. That's the accusation.

Quote:
And large groups of Muslims celebrated. And every Muslim follows an ideology that promotes terrorism.
That is accusation due to hate against me and every Muslim.

Quote:
Islam is nothing but hate against non-muslims. That is where the hate starts.
That is nothing but hate against Islam from you.

Quote:
Qur’an 8:55 Surely the vilest of animals in Allah’s sight are those who disbelieve.
Of course this is just a sample.
Those vilest of animals in Allah's sight were disbelieving, attacking Muslims for their religion (as you are doing here right now) and killing Muslims by waging wars against them.

In your hate against Muslims, Islam and the Qur'an, you are not quoting this sample:

[60.8] Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice.

[60.9] Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of
(your) religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up (others) in your expulsion, that you make friends with them, and whoever makes friends with them, these are the unjust.

Islam does not want us to see every non-muslim as our enemy or us to be enemy of every non-muslim because some of the non-muslims can be our friends. Not every non-muslim is enemy of Muslims but only those who wage war against them because of their religion.

[60.7] It may be that Allah will bring about friendship between you and those whom you hold to be your enemies among them; and Allah is Powerful; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Therefore, Islam teaches us not see or treat all non-muslim as our enemies. Allah will bring about friendship between us and some of the non-muslims who have not waged war against Muslims for their religion.

Of course it is unlikely that you will stop hate against Islam and Muslims. It is people like you who can't be my friends because of your spewing hate against my religion.

 
Old 06-10-2016, 11:18 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,497 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
When you write "Muslims", you do mean "all Muslims" or else you would write "some Muslims". You do not write "some Muslims" because you hate all Muslims.

That means you are accusing all Muslims; proof or no proof.

You are dropping the context. To you every single Muslim celebrated in public and private. That's the accusation.

That is accusation due to hate against me and every Muslim.

That is nothing but hate against Islam from you.

Those vilest of animals in Allah's sight were disbelieving, attacking Muslims for their religion (as you are doing here right now) and killing Muslims by waging wars against them.

In your hate against Muslims, Islam and the Qur'an, you are not quoting this sample:

[60.8] Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice.

[60.9] Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of
(your) religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up (others) in your expulsion, that you make friends with them, and whoever makes friends with them, these are the unjust.

Islam does not want us to see every non-muslim as our enemy or us to be enemy of every non-muslim because some of the non-muslims can be our friends. Not every non-muslim is enemy of Muslims but only those who wage war against them because of their religion.

[60.7] It may be that Allah will bring about friendship between you and those whom you hold to be your enemies among them; and Allah is Powerful; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Therefore, Islam teaches us not see or treat all non-muslim as our enemies. Allah will bring about friendship between us and some of the non-muslims who have not waged war against Muslims for their religion.

Of course it is unlikely that you will stop hate against Islam and Muslims. It is people like you who can't be my friends because of your spewing hate against my religion.
Again:
Here is an example:
"Why did Muslims migrate to Abyssinia"

Does that mean every single Muslim migrated to this place?

"Ahmadiyya Muslims attend Anzac Day service"

https://en.qantara.de/content/ahmadi...ac-day-service

Did every Ahmadiyya Muslim attend Anzac Day service??

I am done discussing this stupid claim.

I have read the quran and hadiths. I see what Muslims are doing. I hate slavery and pedophilia and terrorism and men beating women and honor killings and mass rapes and all initiation of violence against others. So yes, I hate those thinks in Islam. I am proud to be for freedom and individual rights and peace and rationality and justice and the good.

It is people like you who refuse to see the truth and hate the good people who are against evil. Even if you really did think Islam is against all these things, if you honestly looked at what I post you would see that it is obvious that I am against evil, even if you thought I was mistaken about Islam. But you tag me as evil because I am against Islam and you ignore that I am against terrorism and slaughter and rape and pedophilia and slavery and all the rest. That tells me all I need to know.

Know this: I am not the one who has a god that is threatening you with terror and eternal torture.
 
Old 06-10-2016, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,272,269 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by victimofGM View Post
If Islam is a religion of peace then why after several past Muslim terrorist attacks have Muslims in different parts of the world celebrated in the streets? The most recent attacks in Tel Aviv was openly celebrated in Palestine and Turkey among other places. In the attacks in France, Muslims were celebrating openly in school classrooms in Brussels and Netherlands and other parts of the world.
You would have ask those that are doing such. Each person is responsible for their own action.

I can only say why I am not celebrating such action. I will not celebrate any terroristic actions by anyone Muslim or Non-Muslim. They are against Islam and serve no purpose except to incite hatred of Muslims. To kill an innocent person is anti-Islamic and nothing any Muslim should be celebrating.
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Old 06-10-2016, 05:32 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,497 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I will not celebrate any terroristic actions by anyone Muslim or Non-Muslim. They are against Islam and serve no purpose except to incite hatred of Muslims. To kill an innocent person is anti-Islamic and nothing any Muslim should be celebrating.
Quran 3:151
Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers!

Quran 7:4
How many a township have We destroyed! As a raid by night, or while they slept at noon, Our terror came unto them.

Quran 7:152
Lo! Those who chose the calf (for worship), terror from their Lord and humiliation will come upon them in the life of the world. Thus do We requite those who invent a lie.

Quran 8:12
Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

Quran 8:60
Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.

Quran 17:59
And We refrain from sending the signs, only because the men of former generations treated them as false: We sent the she-camel to the Thamud to open their eyes, but they treated her wrongfully: We only send the Signs by way of terror (and warning from evil).

Quran 17:60
Behold! We told thee that thy Lord doth encompass mankind round about: We granted the vision which We showed thee, but as a trial for men,- as also the Cursed Tree (mentioned) in the Qur'an: We put terror (and warning) into them, but it only increases their inordinate transgression!

Quran 33:26
And those of the People of the Book who aided them - Allah did take them down from their strongholds and cast terror into their hearts. (So that) some ye slew, and some ye made prisoners.

Quran 34:51
If thou couldst but see when they will quake with terror; but then there will be no escape (for them), and they will be seized from a position (quite) near.

Quran 59:2
He it is Who drove out the disbelievers among the people of the Scripture (i.e. the Jews of the tribe of Bani An-Nadir) from their homes at the first gathering. You did not think that they would get out. And they thought that their fortresses would defend them from Allah! But Allah's (Torment) reached them from a place whereof they expected it not, and He cast terror into their hearts, so that they destroyed their own dwellings with their own hands and the hands of the believers. Then take admonition, O you with eyes (to see).

O prophet! Strive hard against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be harsh against them. Their abode is hell, and an evil destination it is.
Qur'an 9:73

And fight them until there’s no fitnah (polytheism) and religion is wholly for Allah.
Qur'an 8:39
 
Old 06-10-2016, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,272,269 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Quran 3:151
Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers!

Quran 7:4
How many a township have We destroyed! As a raid by night, or while they slept at noon, Our terror came unto them.

Quran 7:152
Lo! Those who chose the calf (for worship), terror from their Lord and humiliation will come upon them in the life of the world. Thus do We requite those who invent a lie.

Quran 8:12
Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

Quran 8:60
Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.

Quran 17:59
And We refrain from sending the signs, only because the men of former generations treated them as false: We sent the she-camel to the Thamud to open their eyes, but they treated her wrongfully: We only send the Signs by way of terror (and warning from evil).

Quran 17:60
Behold! We told thee that thy Lord doth encompass mankind round about: We granted the vision which We showed thee, but as a trial for men,- as also the Cursed Tree (mentioned) in the Qur'an: We put terror (and warning) into them, but it only increases their inordinate transgression!

Quran 33:26
And those of the People of the Book who aided them - Allah did take them down from their strongholds and cast terror into their hearts. (So that) some ye slew, and some ye made prisoners.

Quran 34:51
If thou couldst but see when they will quake with terror; but then there will be no escape (for them), and they will be seized from a position (quite) near.

Quran 59:2
He it is Who drove out the disbelievers among the people of the Scripture (i.e. the Jews of the tribe of Bani An-Nadir) from their homes at the first gathering. You did not think that they would get out. And they thought that their fortresses would defend them from Allah! But Allah's (Torment) reached them from a place whereof they expected it not, and He cast terror into their hearts, so that they destroyed their own dwellings with their own hands and the hands of the believers. Then take admonition, O you with eyes (to see).

O prophet! Strive hard against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be harsh against them. Their abode is hell, and an evil destination it is.
Qur'an 9:73

And fight them until there’s no fitnah (polytheism) and religion is wholly for Allah.
Qur'an 8:39
All of those ayyats were related to spefific events, by specific people at a specific people. They have nothing to do with Muslims of today.

That is like somebody reading the history of the Alamo and saying all North Americans now have an obligation to kill all Mexicans. Or reading the events that led up to Hiroshima and Nagosaki and saying Americans should kill all Japanese.
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Old 06-10-2016, 06:50 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,497 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
All of those ayyats were related to spefific events, by specific people at a specific people. They have nothing to do with Muslims of today.

That is like somebody reading the history of the Alamo and saying all North Americans now have an obligation to kill all Mexicans. Or reading the events that led up to Hiroshima and Nagosaki and saying Americans should kill all Japanese.
Nope. Wrong.

No creator of the whole darn universe is gonna concern himself with tiny skirmishes. These are lessons for all time. Don't diminish the power of the word of allah!

These verses have incited terrorist attacks all over the world...just like all-knowing and all-powerful allah knew they would when he wrote them.

Millions slaughtered, just like allah knew they would be when he presented muhammed as the perfect model of conduct for ALL muslims to follow.

Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad SAW) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much.
Quran (Surah Al-Ahzab, Verse 21)


"And when the sacred months have passed,then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful" 9:5
 
Old 06-10-2016, 07:15 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,272,269 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Nope. Wrong.

No creator of the whole darn universe is gonna concern himself with tiny skirmishes. These are lessons for all time. Don't diminish the power of the word of allah!

These verses have incited terrorist attacks all over the world...just like all-knowing and all-powerful allah knew they would when he wrote them.

Millions slaughtered, just like allah knew they would be when he presented muhammed as the perfect model of conduct for ALL muslims to follow.

Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad SAW) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much.
Quran (Surah Al-Ahzab, Verse 21)


"And when the sacred months have passed,then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful" 9:5
You and I have very different views regarding what the Qur'an says.
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Old 06-10-2016, 09:23 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,497 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
You and I have very different views regarding what the Qur'an says.
And very different views on allah's sadistic torture of billions of souls.
 
Old 06-10-2016, 10:18 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,580,662 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
You and I have very different views regarding what the Qur'an says.
I believe you have a personal view that is different from what Allah intended.

Khalif just quoted these verses;
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
[40.21] Have they not travelled on earth and seen how was the end of those who were before them? Mightier than these were they in strength-- and in fortifications in the land, but Allah destroyed them for their sins; and there was not for them any defender against Allah.

[40.22] That was because there came to them their messengers with clear arguments, but they rejected
(them), therefore Allah destroyed them; surely He is Strong, Severe in retribution.
Many of the stories and examples mentioned in the Quran are meant to convey the main principles and elements within the stories and examples as in 40:21.

In the Quran, Allah exhorted mankind to see what has happened to non-believers of the past and Allah added various examples and stories to reinforce this threat.

Therefore the Quran is a book of how-to-act within certain general conditions that is valid at all times.
For example, non-Muslims are a potential threat to Islam and if there are threats from non-Muslims Allah gives permission for them to fight and kill them.
The Quran also brainwashed Muslims with the false arrogance they are superior over non-Muslims and Allah will guarantee them victory whenever they fight non-Muslims.

Because the definition and explanation of what-is-threat to Islam is so vague in the Quran, SOME Muslims who are born with very sensitive triggers and evils tendencies are influenced and inspired by evil laden elements in the Quran to commit evils and violence on non-Muslims based on DUCK-RABBIT two truths scenario.
This is why even the drawing of cartoons will trigger SOME to riot and kill. Those who merely are critical [literally and intellectually] of Islam are also killed [nb: Bangladesh and elsewhere].
 
Old 06-10-2016, 11:54 PM
 
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
5,661 posts, read 2,865,682 times
Reputation: 2880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
There are two sides to the argument. You are looking at only one side of the argument. Here is the other side:

I did not celebrate these terrorist attacks. My family did not celebrate these terrorist attacks. Therefore, Islam is religion of peace.
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Prove you did not celebrate. Your claim is an arbitrary assertion with no possible proof that you can give to back up your claim. As such, it is meaningless and should be ignored.

On the other hand, we have mountains of evidence in the form of videos and news reports of Muslims celebrating terrorist attacks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
You give me proof that you did not celebrate and I will do the same. Fair enough?

You won't find me or my family in that "mountains of evidence". Is that proof not enough for you?
I see no reason to doubt Khalif. I have known (in fact, only known) good and decent Muslims. There have been Christians who have done no better than these terrorists. Some 'Christians' and some 'Muslims' have been somewhat less than angelic. Who do you suppose the crusaders were? Who was it that burned people at the stake for obscure reasons? Those were the Godly and righteous 'Christians'.

That said, I am not excusing the behavior of these evil people. Neither do I fully agree with Khalif when he concludes that Islam is a religion of peace. Is Christianity a religion of peace?
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