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Old 06-18-2016, 09:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodToBeHome View Post
Your ideology is inconsistent with orthodox muslim beliefs. You are a cafeteria muslim.
Well, not unless atheists are now cafeteria muslims. Could be, just to jack the numbers up.
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Old 06-19-2016, 10:10 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Well, not unless atheists are now cafeteria muslims. Could be, just to jack the numbers up.
In this cafeteria
The cuisine Islamist
Mujahid ate the following verses
And moderate eating verses Mecca
And all Muslims eat from the Koran
It's a common kitchen
And permissible for a Muslim to eat different meals, according to the degree of his faith
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Old 06-19-2016, 02:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The term mathalu مَثَلُ م ث ل do not imply "metaphorical" in the whole context of the Quran.
That is so for you because you do not understand the Qur'an.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Many of the 45++ English translations I refer to translate it as 'example, likeness'.
"Likeness", "example", "similitude" " or "parable" (all are translated from the Arabic word "mathal") does not mean "literal". Likeness or similarity is not exact or literal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
In the Quran, Allah has given an extensive description of what Paradise and Hell entail literally.
Description of Hell and Paradise is metaphorical but not in so short words. If you are so nit-picker then you can call the description of Hell and Paradise as "Likeness", "example" "similitude" "parable" or "figurative". It is never "literal".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
From my analysis, there are 312 verses related to Hell and 414 verses relating rewards in Paradise. The two out of 312 verses, i.e. verses 13:35 and 47:15 merely mentioned some minimal examples and likeness/similarity to what is expected in Paradise and Hell.
These verses clearly state description of Paradise and Hell is "similitude", "likeness", "parable". Why would Allah call the description "like" (parable) if it is not metaphorical but literal and exact?

There are two types of verses in the Qur'an. Literal/decisive/clear that are fundamental to the message of the Qur'an and allegorical. Allegorical verses are not literal.

[3.7] He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding.

This verse clearly describes that one needs to be believer to even accept them as from Allah. Non-believers will (a) not accept them from Allah and (b) give these verses their own meanings. You are giving allegorical description of Paradise and Hell in 13:35 your own meanings (literal) when it is clearly saying that the description is not exact/literal but as a parable/likeness.

As for 13:35, I quote it here:

The parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised! beneath it flow rivers: perpetual is the enjoyment thereof and the shade therein: such is the End of the Righteous; and the End of Unbelievers is the Fire.(Yusuf Ali)

THE PARABLE of the paradise promised to those who are conscious of God [is that of a garden] through which running waters flow: [but, unlike an earthly garden,] its fruits will be everlasting, and [so will be] its shade. Such will be the destiny of those who remain conscious of God - just as the destiny of those who deny the truth will be the fire.(Asad)

As for the paradise which the righteous have been promised, it is like this: rivers flow beneath it; eternal are its fruits, and eternal are its shades; such is the reward of the righteous. But the reward of unbelievers is the fire.(Malik)

A similitude of the Garden which is promised unto those who keep their duty (to Allah): Underneath it rivers flow; its food is everlasting, and its shade; this is the reward of those who keep their duty, while the reward of disbelievers is the Fire.(Pickthall)

The allegory of Heaven, which is promised for the righteous, is flowing streams, inexhaustible provisions, and cool shade. Such is the destiny for those who observe righteousness, while the destiny for the disbelievers is Hell.(Rashad Khalifa)

A parable of the Garden which is promised to those who keep their duty: Therein flow rivers. Its fruits are perpetual and its plenty. Such is the end for those who keep their duty; and the end of the disbelievers is the Fire.(Moulana Ali)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The descriptions of Hell and Paradise in accordance to the Quran are literal and not in parables.
Read the above translations!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Allah attributes and essence has to be literally real, otherwise YOU are claiming Allah is false and contradicting yourself.
Allah's essence has never been described in the Qur'an. This is why your understanding of the Qur'an is very poor.

[112.1] Say: He, Allah, is One.
[112.2] Allah is He on Whom all depend.
[112.3] He begets not, nor is He begotten.
[112.4] And none is like Him.


If none is like Allah then He is not like anything you know in your known "reality" world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
What can't Allah leave anyone there without skins?
There is a good reason for it that I asked the question. Now you are asking me the same question without replying to my question. That is a good way to eel and slither out of this.
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Old 06-19-2016, 11:11 PM
 
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[quote=Khalif;44471598]That is so for you because you do not understand the Qur'an.
OK
Paradise in Islam is sexual pleasure
● Allah said: {and Hur eye. Like unto preserved pearls. reward for what they were working} [al-wakea : 22-24].
● Allah said: {The righteous in the gardens and delight. Vakean including Lord gave them and their Lord Oukahm torment of hell. Eat and drink pleasantly what you did. Reclining on couches matrix and Zojnahm( marriage him ) ( **** aean )seas appointed} [Tur: 17-20]
● Allah says: {And those who believe and their offspring followed them in faith we inflict their offspring and Oltnahm of their work is something every man including gain depends. Pfakeh prepared for the believers and the flesh than they desire. Disputing the glass does not idle nor a criminal. And the young men roams them As if they were pearls innermosti} [Tur: 21-24].
● he said God brought round them Bsahaf of gold and cups in which the heart desires selves and sweet to the eyes and you will abide therein} [al-zekref 71]

Allah says: {therein bounties Hassan. What Alaa Lord (Tkzban=Lie.) Hur booths in tents. What Alaa Lord Tkzban. Ince did not Atmthn them commissions.( لَمْ يَطْمِثْهُنَّ إِنسٌ قَبْلَهُمْ وَلا جَانٌّ) menstruation=يَطْمِثْهُنَّ What Alaa Lord Tkzban. Reclining on green cushions and a genius Hassan} [Rahman: 70-76].

These verses of the Koran
Paradise is not a metaphorical(Paradise is not a allegorical)
It's descriptions of paradise
Nymphs eye
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Old 06-19-2016, 11:13 PM
 
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He says: {The righteous in the gardens and shrine Oman.vi Aaon.alpson of silk and brocade, and Mottagabelin.kzlk Zojnahm seas Aan.adon where all the fruit safe} [smoke: 51-55]
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Old 06-19-2016, 11:20 PM
 
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Body women of Paradise

Body of Paradise: God has made the people of Paradise in creating a more complete picture by humans, an image of Adam peace be upon him, and only to complement their happiness and Gbtthm the eternal bliss. As God's sentences have their pictures sentences morals of the people of Paradise was the creation of one man: The Messenger of Allah r:

"Morals to create one man, in the image of their father Adam sixty cubits in heaven" (Muslim) What fresher that life .. and tastier living .. the whole life of affection and serenity and intimacy and brotherhood .. and love and sincerity and loyalty, he says and Hdoa to the good from the say (Hajj 24] the Almighty said can not hear the null (Gash 11] the Almighty said and we removed what in the chests of Gul brothers on couches facing one another (stone 47] do not sulk and misery. no no no envy nor quarreled nor wars, but it is a society of peace and tranquility and intimacy and compassion.

The Messenger of Allah r has said that the people of Paradise, all of them young sons thirty-three. The Messenger of Allah r said: "The people of Paradise enter inventory Marda, as if they were Mekhalon, thirty three years" (Saheeh al), and they do not spit nor Eetmkhton not excrete not sleep was the Messenger of Allah r said: "sleeping brother of death nor sleep people of Paradise" ( correct) series, what is the strangest people of faith in this world. Understand the look in their hearts to this bliss and they were saying:

There is no good to live as long as Mngsh

For the same adhkaar death and pyramid

But living in Dar es place, where no inconvenient pyramid their youth does not remove the death Enaimanm.

Vtbesr O slave of Allah and do not Ilhenk length of hope, not Iemienk young people, the Almnaya with no fear and that after Fihrm young middle age, after the death of the pyramid Vcypr calculating either to bliss or to hell.

We ask God's pardon and wellness and good conclusion.

The women of Paradise

Hassanhn: The women of Paradise and greater Bjmahin, they Mahurat eyes Mlolat cheeks, Tksuhen succulent, and Imlahn beauty, Okhamat Bnzerathn, witches Bhnohn, Bpartyhn minors.

He says, and Hur Aan_ Like unto preserved pearls (located 22-23] and the Almighty said they are like rubies and coral (Rahman 58] and the Almighty said if they were innermost eggs (Saaffaat 49] may blending of whiteness their eyes in black, and the whites of their bodies smooth, It says in the talk, "and each one of them wives see brain Sogahma from behind the meat from Hassan" (Bukhari with conquest), said the Messenger of Allah r: "if seen by a woman from the women of paradise to earth to fill in between wind (ie east and Morocco) and lit up their to Nsifha on her head is better than what the minimum "(Muslim and see the carrot).

I know my dear brother: that this bliss can not be attained unless diligent in obedience to God, and make his way to the self-Murad, the performance of prayers and remembrance in retreats and, in the darkness. Malik bin Dinar said: I had read out to parties every night, grew one night, if I'm in a dream Bjarah of good and beauty in her hand and she said get better patch that you read? I said: Yes. It pushed to the patch, if written these verses:

Hack to sleep on the request aspirations

And those Aloouans in Jinan

Live for ever in which neither death

And playing in the tents with Hassan

The alert in more sleep better

Sleep tahajjud Koran

The women of Paradise Callahan firstborn not a Amshn of mankind or jinn says I am Onconahn Anchae_ Fjalnahn virgins _arba Oturaba (located 35-37] and (Arabs) collection Oroub They Altbbat to their husbands, said Abu Obeida:'Arroub: good Altbaal ie improved Mwaqatha and Mlateftha to her husband during intercourse, she said radiator is mad husband.

Okhalagahn: The Okhalagahn it high Slender, collected charm modesty and decency and sweetness of courtship and the smile and the Palace of party and good appetite and facial beauty and amenities ihraam. Allah says:

) Therein bounties Hassan (Rahman 70] Valgirat collection of the finest and Hassan good collection, they are bounties qualities and ethics and lofty, Hassan faces. He says Hur booths in tents (Rahman 72] They are incarcerated on their husbands can not see the others in tents, and they want others do not Atman to the others, including the Hbehn God of sincerity ten and purity of love and affection and devotion to their husbands. and the Almighty said and have the underage party appointed (Saaffaat 48] and party own reside ra is impaired. which they Iqsrn gaze on their husbands admire them and love.

Ginahn: The women of Paradise, with Zhou beauty paper their bodies and softness good looks and Shrhn and Hassanhn with what Thalin its gentleness ethics ten good, had Hbn of votes Ohassanha and songs Oazbha and Otrabha, he says On The Hour that day Atvrkon_ As for those who believe and do good works to understand Ahabron in kindergarten ([Roman 14-15] Yahya bin Abi said many: Alhabrp: pleasure and hearing.

Or what I've heard they heard the singing

Poplar sounds and melodies

And Aha Veak hearing how it

Heart of mirth and Ashjan

And Aha Veak hearing and Tiba

Such as satellites on the branches
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Old 06-19-2016, 11:22 PM
 
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Paradise building and soil

There is on the face of this simple luxury buildings and palaces built, housing and Gerv..lknha no matter how high of beauty and an important affect their structure and height .. does not look like what in the paradise of houses and buildings, but in name only.

In the paradise of the charm of the housing and the beauty of palaces rooms and glitter tents and come, what is recognized in the eye and live to him self and how does its tents from the Pearl, and palaces of gold and where the luxury furniture and Keb women and a good drink and delicious food money unthinkable.

Paradise Rooms: The rooms do not reach heaven for strength building and tighten their corners and splendor in sight and glitter appearance. The Messenger of Allah r said: "The people of Paradise Atran people of rooms above them as Taatran planet Dorry relief in sight from the east or Morocco to differentiate between them, they said: O Messenger of Allah: those homes prophets do not communicate them to others? He said: Yes, and my hand: Men believe in God and believe senders "(Bukhari and Muslim)

Look, my dear brother: in the place of these rooms .. It's like planets in height and Tloliha .. and the flow of goods in space, yes it's high tall .. God has prepared for the believers to Astalo for infidelity and immorality and debauchery .. when subjected to God in the world by the commands and leave the prohibitions, raising God their fate and placed them in those transcendent rooms. And read if you wish, my brother Alkarim- the words of God Almighty But those who fear their Lord above them chambers built rooms ([Zumar 20]

Not to my eye and rubbed Osaadana

Begzar tears at the injustice of nights

You might be in the resurrection that Tvose

Fine house in those Alaly

Vcmr: O servant of God, good God expensive, if the price piety and obedience, and it's easy-to-God pleased him, and pre-empted this great goodness, and this eternal bliss, it is folly and ego, that one of these minimum replaces this ruin! Including God of Badi safe rooms Hinaih Almighty said Those them a penalty doubled as they worked in the chambers safe (

[Saba 37]

Tents Paradise: Paradise houses sparkle .. As to their rooms, like planets cavernous, so too tents pearls hollow .. Messenger of Allah r "He said that the believer in paradise for the tent of one pearl hollow length in the sky Stone miles, the believer in Ohlon, roams them insured and do not see each other "(Bukhari and Muslim), it is one pearl sixty miles in length.

Think about my brother: and see how you would to like them when you enter .. and how to be Instk and your happiness and you occupier and around houris domesticated them and hear Ginahn and Hnhen breathtaking .. and Tenbh- Okha- to eighth logged is the faith that requires docile to God Almighty because of the good things and leave the excesses and servitude to God alone, and my brother knows best Alkarim- be insured to the reluctance in the world in his heart, and did not tempt him to love the desires of gold and silver, God will reward that piety and asceticism that soul rest in committee.

Palaces Paradise: The Paradise palaces are of gold and pearls, aquamarine and silver .. Do not know her good looks and splendor, but who created and built by the Almighty. The Messenger of Allah r said: "If I entered Paradise Palace of gold I said who this palace? They said a young man from the Quraish, I thought that I am. And I said: Who is he? They said Omar bin al-Khattab" (Tirmidhi and said good-versa).

Beloved brother: Baader acts of obedience before it is too late .. and, I hope, with God out of gardens and delight, for he world .. moments and seconds .. but you wayfarer.

Paradise Soil: The soil of paradise is musk, saffron and white Aldermkh (exact fairy pure whiteness). It was narrated that Abu Sa'eed said: The Messenger of Allah r to the son of a fisherman, said: "What soil Paradise? He said: Dermkh white caught, O Abu al-Qasim, said: ratified" (Narrated by Muslim), and with him that the son of the fisherman Messenger of Allah r asked for soil paradise. He said: "White Dermkh caught sincere" (Muslim), it has offered to talk to the soil of saffron.

My dear brother: If you're loving this well-off and those kind of housing, thy yourself to obey God, and the avoidance of kin and perform prayers, fasting and doing in the darkness ..

It is only an hour and then expire

The GOP realizes walk is Saber
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Old 06-19-2016, 11:27 PM
 
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These descriptions make brain washed suicide

Marry nymphs Virginity
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Old 06-19-2016, 11:32 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
That is so for you because you do not understand the Qur'an.
It is you who do not you understand the term 'metaphor' in this context.
The mathalu مَثَلُ م ث ل is definitely not metaphorical in this context.

Quote:
"Likeness", "example", "similitude" " or "parable" (all are translated from the Arabic word "mathal") does not mean "literal". Likeness or similarity is not exact or literal.
The mathalu مَثَلُ م ث ل is more relevant to "likeness' and "example" and is NOT referring to a parable or similitude.

Here are some example of metaphors;
100 Metaphor Examples - For Kids and Adults | Reading Worksheets
1. The detective listened to her tales with a wooden face.
2.She was fairly certain that life was a fashion show.
3.The typical teenage boy’s room is a disaster area.
4.What storms then shook the ocean of my sleep.
5.The children were roses grown in concrete gardens, beautiful and forlorn.
6. Her eyes were fireflies.
Note for example there is no such thing as a real "wooden face" for a female or any person in reality.
Thus in this case 'wooden face' cannot be literal but metaphorical and we know what its intended meaning.
It is not possible for a person's eyes to be "fireflies" in reality.

Allah did not state the person has a 'wooden face' 'fireflies as eyes' or other metaphors.
What Allah described of Hell and Paradise is literal, thus possible and real in accordance to the Quran.

However in the context of Allah being all powerful and 'Hell' the verses are literal because surely Allah is capable of burning a person's skin and replacing it. Thus it is literal because it is possible for an all powerful Allah to do that.
In the context of an all powerful Allah, the descriptions [most] of Hell and Paradise exist literally.


Quote:
Description of Hell and Paradise is metaphorical but not in so short words. If you are so nit-picker then you can call the description of Hell and Paradise as "Likeness", "example" "similitude" "parable" or "figurative". It is never "literal".
Note my explanation above.

These verses clearly state description of Paradise and Hell is "similitude", "likeness", "parable". Why would Allah call the description "like" (parable) if it is not metaphorical but literal and exact?

Quote:
There are two types of verses in the Qur'an. Literal/decisive/clear that are fundamental to the message of the Qur'an and allegorical. Allegorical verses are not literal.

[3.7] He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding.

This verse clearly describes that one needs to be believer to even accept them as from Allah. Non-believers will (a) not accept them from Allah and (b) give these verses their own meanings. You are giving allegorical description of Paradise and Hell in 13:35 your own meanings (literal) when it is clearly saying that the description is not exact/literal but as a parable/likeness.
You are quote mining/selective on 3:7 where you pick one with 'some.'
Most the 45++ English translations did not mention 'some' but translate the Scripture, revelations, verses as clear, definitive, precise, categorical and the likes.
This is confirm by so many other verses where Allah stated the Quran is recited in 'language of their own' in this case, Arabic so that it is easy to read and understand. If you said, only 'some' are decisive, then you are contradicting Allah's other claims that the Quran is easy to read as it is recited in Arabic [re the warnings and threats of Hell and promises of rewards made by Allah].
43:3. Lo! We [Allah] have appointed it a Lecture in Arabic that haply ye [Arabs] may understand.
Actually when Allah stated there are some which are allegorical and thus difficult to understand, then Allah is contradiction itself against the claim that the Scripture is supposed to be easy to read. Nevertheless if there are difficult verses, they should be 'some' only thus the exceptions.

The 700++ verses related to Hell and rewards in Paradise should be direct, literal, easy and not metaphorical/allegorical.

Quote:
As for 13:35, I quote it here:

The parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised! beneath it flow rivers: perpetual is the enjoyment thereof and the shade therein: such is the End of the Righteous; and the End of Unbelievers is the Fire.(Yusuf Ali)

THE PARABLE of the paradise promised to those who are conscious of God [is that of a garden] through which running waters flow: [but, unlike an earthly garden,] its fruits will be everlasting, and [so will be] its shade. Such will be the destiny of those who remain conscious of God - just as the destiny of those who deny the truth will be the fire.(Asad)

As for the paradise which the righteous have been promised, it is like this: rivers flow beneath it; eternal are its fruits, and eternal are its shades; such is the reward of the righteous. But the reward of unbelievers is the fire.(Malik)

A similitude of the Garden which is promised unto those who keep their duty (to Allah): Underneath it rivers flow; its food is everlasting, and its shade; this is the reward of those who keep their duty, while the reward of disbelievers is the Fire.(Pickthall)

The allegory of Heaven, which is promised for the righteous, is flowing streams, inexhaustible provisions, and cool shade. Such is the destiny for those who observe righteousness, while the destiny for the disbelievers is Hell.(Rashad Khalifa)

A parable of the Garden which is promised to those who keep their duty: Therein flow rivers. Its fruits are perpetual and its plenty. Such is the end for those who keep their duty; and the end of the disbelievers is the Fire.(Moulana Ali)
Again you are deceiving and is quote mining to pick only those out of the 45++ English translation I know to suit your wrong interpretations.


Quote:
Read the above translations!
Your pick of the above is dishonest.
My claim is mathalu مَثَلُ م ث ل re 13:35, the context of an all powerful Allah is more relevant to "likeness' and "example" which is literally and very possible.
13:35 [part] the Garden which is promised unto those [Muslims] who keep their duty (to Allah): Underneath it rivers flow; its food is everlasting, and its shade
What wrong with the above appearing literally in Paradise and "Fire" burning everywhere in Hell.

As for recurring burning of skins, note the video showing a fried fish which is alive. If humans can do this [very cruel] an all powerful Allah would have no problem doing that to non-believers in Hell.

Quote:
Allah's essence has never been described in the Qur'an. This is why your understanding of the Qur'an is very poor.

[112.1] Say: He, Allah, is One.
[112.2] Allah is He on Whom all depend.
[112.3] He begets not, nor is He begotten.
[112.4] And none is like Him.


If none is like Allah then He is not like anything you know in your known "reality" world.
It can easily be inferred. What so difficult with comprehending Allah's essence is in 'spirit' form and is very powerful to create the universe/everything and do whatever Allah want to do.
Comprehending Allah's features is not a problem, the problem is whether Allah can be real or not.
The fact is it impossible to prove the existence of Allah and thus Allah do not exists as real.
If Allah is not real, then Allah is a false idea.

Quote:
There is a good reason for it that I asked the question. Now you are asking me the same question without replying to my question. That is a good way to eel and slither out of this.
My reply is Allah is all powerful [as claimed in the Quran] and Allah can leave anyone to survive without skin to suffer terrible pains, then replace the skins as many times as Allah wishes [eternally] as threatened in the Quran.
Don't you understand what is meant by all-powerful, i.e. omnipotent?
Omnipotent means having the power thus ability to do anything, i.e. create the Universe and all thing there is, so what is the problem with leaving anyone there without skins and replacing them to be burnt and replacing them again and again every time the skin are burned off.

Now you answer my question;
What can't Allah leave anyone there without skins?
Don't try to eel and slither out of this.

Therefore from the perspective of the Quran, the descriptions of Hell and Paradise are literal unless obviously is otherwise.

Last edited by Continuum; 06-19-2016 at 11:52 PM..
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Old 06-20-2016, 01:18 AM
 
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Thus, the basic principle is to get the words of the Quran and Sunnah on the realities, the folk rode on the back of metaphor Vetosaloa him to interpret the texts of revelation generally not permitted, Vnfoa names and disrupted qualities, like the Sunnis in this case, is proof of what God has proven himself and proved to him His Messenger, peace be upon him, he denied he denied himself and denied him the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, and the silence of what silent about the book and the year, and we can expand what the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him. The great scholar Ibn values: "It is the right to speak to bear on the truth until the agreement of the nation is that I want to do metaphor, since there is no way to follow what was revealed to us from the Lord, but on it, but directed the word of God to the months and more correct than the faces that did not prevent the so what should his delivery, though Sag claim metaphor for each prosecutor proved something of worship. "
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