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Old 06-15-2016, 09:28 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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The Quran in various verses challenged the non-Muslims to produce another Quran, 10 surahs, one surah the like thereof. Here are some related verses;
11:13. Or they [infidels] say: He hath invented it. Say [Muhammad]: Then bring ten surahs, the like thereof, invented, and call on everyone ye can beside Allah, if ye are truthful!

2:23. And if ye [infidels] are in doubt concerning that [Quran] which We [Allah] reveal unto Our slave (Muhammad), then produce a sura or the like thereof, and call your witnesses [partners, gods] beside Allah if ye [infidels] are truthful.

52:34. Then let them [infidels] produce speech the like thereof, if they [infidels] are truthful:
My Challenge is:
Who [individual, panel or group] is to judge the results and make the final decision of the challenge?

Point is:
Only Allah can make the final decision on whether any one's challenge is the same as the original revelation from Allah.
Because it is impossible for Allah to appear to judge whatever challenge is put forward and give a final decision, therefore the challenge is an impossibility and a ridiculous challenge.
A God who is all-knowing will never issue such an impossible and ridiculous challenge.

Views?
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Old 06-15-2016, 10:02 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 662,792 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The Quran in various verses challenged the non-Muslims to produce another Quran, 10 surahs, one surah the like thereof. Here are some related verses;
11:13. Or they [infidels] say: He hath invented it. Say [Muhammad]: Then bring ten surahs, the like thereof, invented, and call on everyone ye can beside Allah, if ye are truthful!

2:23. And if ye [infidels] are in doubt concerning that [Quran] which We [Allah] reveal unto Our slave (Muhammad), then produce a sura or the like thereof, and call your witnesses [partners, gods] beside Allah if ye [infidels] are truthful.

52:34. Then let them [infidels] produce speech the like thereof, if they [infidels] are truthful:
My Challenge is:
Who [individual, panel or group] is to judge the results and make the final decision of the challenge?

Point is:
Only Allah can make the final decision on whether any one's challenge is the same as the original revelation from Allah.
Because it is impossible for Allah to appear to judge whatever challenge is put forward and give a final decision, therefore the challenge is an impossibility and a ridiculous challenge.
A God who is all-knowing will never issue such an impossible and ridiculous challenge.

Views?
This is a wonderful question and need to be addressed intellectually
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Old 06-16-2016, 06:14 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,040,005 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The Quran in various verses challenged the non-Muslims to produce another Quran, 10 surahs, one surah the like thereof. Here are some related verses;
11:13. Or they [infidels] say: He hath invented it. Say [Muhammad]: Then bring ten surahs, the like thereof, invented, and call on everyone ye can beside Allah, if ye are truthful!

2:23. And if ye [infidels] are in doubt concerning that [Quran] which We [Allah] reveal unto Our slave (Muhammad), then produce a sura or the like thereof, and call your witnesses [partners, gods] beside Allah if ye [infidels] are truthful.

52:34. Then let them [infidels] produce speech the like thereof, if they [infidels] are truthful:
My Challenge is:
Who [individual, panel or group] is to judge the results and make the final decision of the challenge?

Point is:
Only Allah can make the final decision on whether any one's challenge is the same as the original revelation from Allah.
Because it is impossible for Allah to appear to judge whatever challenge is put forward and give a final decision, therefore the challenge is an impossibility and a ridiculous challenge.
A God who is all-knowing will never issue such an impossible and ridiculous challenge.

Views?
The challenge was to those who did not believe that the Qur'an is the Word/Saying/Hadith of Allah.

Write a book, claim it to be Hadith/Word/Saying of Allah, and if it is accepted as such just as the Qur'an was accepted as Hadith of Allah then the challenge in the Qur'an has failed. The EVIDENCE of it being accepted as the Hadith of Allah, similar to the Qur'an being accepted as Hadith of Allah will be the judge.
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Old 06-16-2016, 06:16 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,040,005 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
This is a wonderful question and need to be addressed intellectually
Go on, have a go in any language.
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Old 06-16-2016, 07:42 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 662,792 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
The challenge was to those who did not believe that the Qur'an is the Word/Saying/Hadith of Allah.

Write a book, claim it to be Hadith/Word/Saying of Allah, and if it is accepted as such just as the Qur'an was accepted as Hadith of Allah then the challenge in the Qur'an has failed. The EVIDENCE of it being accepted as the Hadith of Allah, similar to the Qur'an being accepted as Hadith of Allah will be the judge.
After Muhammad's death appeared prophets and others were written with them resembling the(Q) Koran
that The cause of the apostasy wars
But there is a judge accepted by the (Q)Koran
surat-youns -94
(If you are in doubt what We have revealed to you then ask those who read the book before you have the right to come to you from your Lord is not among the doubters)
Read well
The first part in the red
If you are in doubt, O Muhammad, who sent down to you

Read a good part of the blue
Go and ask those who read the book before you
The big question of this verse
who read the book before you
Who are they????

And We have sent down to you the Book in truth, confirming the handsof the book---- This verse of Surah al-maeda -48

Read part of the violet

For these, the referee or judge was present
Previous reading of the Koran
Mohammed was depends on it
After the death of Mamedasubh sword is the judge, which is what happened in the wars of apostasy
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Old 06-16-2016, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,291,704 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The Quran in various verses challenged the non-Muslims to produce another Quran, 10 surahs, one surah the like thereof. Here are some related verses;
11:13. Or they [infidels] say: He hath invented it. Say [Muhammad]: Then bring ten surahs, the like thereof, invented, and call on everyone ye can beside Allah, if ye are truthful!

2:23. And if ye [infidels] are in doubt concerning that [Quran] which We [Allah] reveal unto Our slave (Muhammad), then produce a sura or the like thereof, and call your witnesses [partners, gods] beside Allah if ye [infidels] are truthful.

52:34. Then let them [infidels] produce speech the like thereof, if they [infidels] are truthful:
My Challenge is:
Who [individual, panel or group] is to judge the results and make the final decision of the challenge?

Point is:
Only Allah can make the final decision on whether any one's challenge is the same as the original revelation from Allah.
Because it is impossible for Allah to appear to judge whatever challenge is put forward and give a final decision, therefore the challenge is an impossibility and a ridiculous challenge.
A God who is all-knowing will never issue such an impossible and ridiculous challenge.

Views?
My understanding is the Challenge is to make as much as one original sentence (actual sentence, not word hash) using Qur'anic Arabic.

Qur'anic Arabic so far is found only in the Qur'an. As is the entire known Qur'anic vocabulary. It has never been used as a conversational language, unless quoting the Qur'an. Using the Qur'anic Arabic the contention is no Human can write an original sentence. No one including Muhammad(saws) ever used Qur'anic Arabic as a conversational language. What I find amazing about it is it is understandable to anyone who understands any Arabic Dialect. Yet, learning it does not enable a person to understand any spoken Arabic dialect.

As far as the writing of a work equal in beauty to the Qur'an in any language that will always be a matter of personal opinion. The concepts of Beauty are quite individual.

But to write a single original sentence in Qur'anic Arabic, should be a visible act with no need of a value based judgement. A person either can or can not do it.

Anyhow that is how the Qur'anic Challenge was explained to me, back in my non-Islamic days when I thought the poetry of Rumi was more beautiful.
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Old 06-16-2016, 01:55 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 662,792 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
My understanding is the Challenge is to make as much as one original sentence (actual sentence, not word hash) using Qur'anic Arabic.

Qur'anic Arabic so far is found only in the Qur'an. As is the entire known Qur'anic vocabulary. It has never been used as a conversational language, unless quoting the Qur'an. Using the Qur'anic Arabic the contention is no Human can write an original sentence. No one including Muhammad(saws) ever used Qur'anic Arabic as a conversational language. What I find amazing about it is it is understandable to anyone who understands any Arabic Dialect. Yet, learning it does not enable a person to understand any spoken Arabic dialect.

As far as the writing of a work equal in beauty to the Qur'an in any language that will always be a matter of personal opinion. The concepts of Beauty are quite individual.

But to write a single original sentence in Qur'anic Arabic, should be a visible act with no need of a value based judgement. A person either can or can not do it.

Anyhow that is how the Qur'anic Challenge was explained to me, back in my non-Islamic days when I thought the poetry of Rumi was more beautiful.
Quran was revealed in the language of Quraish
This is the classical Arabic
It is traded in all Arab countries Language
The local dialects it Hddath Nchaet Islamic Baadaghazo to those countries which had a special languages Vametzjt with Arab due to time and setting it accents such as the Egyptian-affected in the Coptic language
The Syrian and Lebanese-affected Aramaic
The Iraqi-affected Assyrian and Chaldean
The Palestinian-affected in Hebrew, Romanian, Greek
And the Maghreb, which is Libya, Algeria, Tunisia and Morocco-affected Amazigh language, Berber and French also
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Old 06-16-2016, 06:14 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,291,704 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
Quran was revealed in the language of Quraish
This is the classical Arabic
It is traded in all Arab countries Language
The local dialects it Hddath Nchaet Islamic Baadaghazo to those countries which had a special languages Vametzjt with Arab due to time and setting it accents such as the Egyptian-affected in the Coptic language
The Syrian and Lebanese-affected Aramaic
The Iraqi-affected Assyrian and Chaldean
The Palestinian-affected in Hebrew, Romanian, Greek
And the Maghreb, which is Libya, Algeria, Tunisia and Morocco-affected Amazigh language, Berber and French also
The Arabic I speak is the Darija of the Maghreb (Morocco), I used to live there I was in the USAF at the time primary duty station was at Sidi Slimane also spent some time at Ben Guerir, and Nouasseur

Later came back to Morocco several times as a civilian. "Maroo Deekshee Mezzean. I had planned to retire at Fez. Love Morocco. although I was never there as a Muslim. Every time I was there I was a Christian.

I bought my First Qur'an in Rabat, at the time I was studying Arabic there. I thought the Qur'an would help me understand Arabic better, but soon discovered it is not written in a conversational form of Arabic.
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Old 06-16-2016, 09:22 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 662,792 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The Arabic I speak is the Darija of the Maghreb (Morocco), I used to live there I was in the USAF at the time primary duty station was at Sidi Slimane also spent some time at Ben Guerir, and Nouasseur

Later came back to Morocco several times as a civilian. "Maroo Deekshee Mezzean. I had planned to retire at Fez. Love Morocco. although I was never there as a Muslim. Every time I was there I was a Christian.

I bought my First Qur'an in Rabat, at the time I was studying Arabic there. I thought the Qur'an would help me understand Arabic better, but soon discovered it is not written in a conversational form of Arabic.
Repelling shield I do not interfere in your freedom
But we are talking about the thought and ideology, as well as personal
If you're looking for the truth you have to follow this style

You should look at this challenge
Who is the judge in this challenge
I submit to you today Arab poems and transported to the Koran Mohammed
emea bin Salt said by the Prophet of Islam, "Kafr secure his hair and his heart
emea bin Salt said by the Prophet of Islam "safe hair and Kafr his heart," felt this man found his way to the heart of Muhammad and the Quran in a way: the God of the worlds and all the land of the Lord of headers from the mountains, built and Aptny seven Hdada without pillars perceive nor men, and others, and garnish with the light from the sun bright Crescent, the Lord of headers from the mountains ... without pillars !!!
You'll find clear words in (Surah Luqman: verse 10), "created the heavens without any pillars that you see and threw in the earth lest it should shake with you

What be the position of those verses ignorant poet who influenced Imru 'al-Qais Bhکl indisputable over a large part of the Koran. Haکm some of his verses of poetry:
Poem to man measuring:
Man measuring (one-month pre-Islamic era poets)
Canadian man measuring Ben Stone and his name is "Hndj" A famous poets pre-Islamic era top of the first layer of the Arab poets, which includes Al-Nabigha and TFB and others. And one of the owners of the seven famous pendants. One of the most poets of his time a departure from the typical tradition, and it was a race to the many meanings and images. The man measuring his priorities in Alchabiah metaphors and quite a few of the descriptions and Almlhat.
"Man measuring the Koran has made statements (decades before the birth of Muhammad)
Man measuring Poem
Dent time and split the moon - for R Ghazal my heart and Navarre
Ahwar may Hrt in descriptions - party sleepy eyes Hur
Over the feast day in finery - a man among Vtaty Fqr
Arrows of canthus missed - Fterkny Khisham Mahtzer
If they missed me an hour - it was worse time ordered
Hassan wrote on his cheek - Bsheiq musk line Summary
Usually satellites are applicable in the darkness - and I saw the night the moon is valid

I said as incision Alamar cheek - Dent clock and the moon split

Split came close at the Moon {1}
If they see any offer and say the magic constant {2}
And lied to and follow their desires and all is stable {3}
The news came to them from what it Mzadgr {4}
What great wisdom Teagan vow {5}
VTOL leaves them on the feeding to something Necker {6}
Khcaa their eyes out of the graves as if they were locusts diffuse {7}
Mhtaan to the feeding unbelievers say this day indigestion {8}
Lied before them the people of Noah Vkzbwa Our servant and said crazy and Azadgr
And inform them that the water dividing them all dying to drink (28)
And they called keeps company Vtaty Fqr (29)
We sent them one Shout, They were Khisham Mahtzer (31)
Muadhm but time and time and is worse (46)

Dent time and split the moon ... (Sura Moon: Verse 1) (split came close at the Moon).
(Vtaty Fqr ... (Sura Moon: verse 29) (they called keeps company Vtaty Fqr).
(Kshahym dying) ... (Sura Moon: verse 31) (Khisham Mahtzer).
(Baldhy and night) ... (Surah Duha: verse 1-2) (and morn and night when darkens. (
Amarwalqیs:
One wishes in the summer winter * Even if winter came Onکrh
It does not satisfy the condition, and one man was killed * What Oکfarh
He said:
Quran: the killing of man what Aکfarh (frowned. Verse 17)
Amarwalqیs: If the earthquake earth Zlzalha * the ground and drove encumber
The creatures on the messengers * to see the day of reckoning unchanged
Just holding it accountable Mlک * Either by either her "

Quran: If the earthquake earth Zlzalha * encumber the ground and taken out of Al earthquake. Er 1 and 2

Amarwalqیs: slumbering party with his eyes
Quran: underage party Aیnalsafat, eh j 48

** In addition, we find these verses of poetry man measuring:
Accept lovers behind him as if they were from all over the slipping, came the day of Eid in accessories such as a action, workers ...
Koran verses that has taken the following:
(Al-Anbiya: verse 96) "Even if you open the Gog and Magog They are from every side slipping" for such action, workers ...
(Saaffat: verse 61) "to such action, workers."
It also has:
Accept and lovers behind him as if they were slipping from all over came the day of the feast in the finery of such a action, workers
Verses mentioned featured in Surat moon 54: 1, 27, 29; In Surah Duha 93: 1, 2; and in Al-Anbiya 21: 96; In Saaffat 37: 61, with a slight difference in wording, not in meaning. For example, it stated in the Koran »approached« As mentioned in the poem »Dent«. It is clear that there were similar between these verses and the verses of the Koran

He wrote the poet Rwbp Bin Ajaj, describing the defeat of Abraha campaign Bouaptin of hair:
(And what touched them touched the elephant owners throw them with stones of baked clay, and played their bird Ababil Vasiroa such as brainstorming uneaten) !!

After these homes years later, we find the Qur'an in Al-Fil underscores the same words of this poet:
(Have you not seen how your Lord did owners of the Elephant, or make their scheme to mislead, and sent them Ababil birds, throw them with stones of baked clay, Fjolhm Kaacef uneaten

Here Constellation Qrchih in ignorance, led by Abdul Muttalib say that the Kaaba the house of God and Ihamdonh to protect, defend and hostile to the Christians who were signaling their cross before Muhammad. What Mohammed brought that was new, and I disagree with them
Alkaabat building was venerated Arab ignorance here is bright it says that God take revenge by attacking Alkaabat any of the Kaaba Alkaabat which was the more than twenty !!! Umayya ibn Abi Salt said that We seek refuge in God pilgrims As Sabieh girl humpback recommends her son to keep incest and asking him to fulfill the vow and Tnhah injustice and remember God, what did the owners of the elephant when they attacked the Kaaba and Abdulmutallab appeals to the Lord of the Kaaba and will pacify that protects Kaabth attack the king of Abyssinia Christian who was his character Cross was the poem in the same year in which Mohammed was born. The strangest thing I read about the Kaaba, which God protected it in ignorance and abandoned in Islam; In pilgrims time Kaaba hit the catapult and destroyed and set on fire and the shedding of the blood and killed Abdullah bin Zubair and his companions in the mosque while Qaramita Vensawa Halitha uprooted black lap and killed pilgrims in spite of what came and made !! campus safer.

This is the word of researchers
Some verses of the Koran are the poems moved Mohamed to Alqran

That is why in Mecca did not believe in him because they knew he was transferred from other books and with the help of his cousin and Orrakh
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Old 06-16-2016, 09:27 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 662,792 times
Reputation: 204
to-Woodrow LI

Since you studied Arabic
Look at the pre-Islamic poets
The names are well-known sources, the Koran and one will know
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