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Old 07-02-2016, 10:06 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Not if life is a test as we believe and facing sexual desires is part of this test.
Then why make women wear black bags?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuYXyvmfgSc
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Old 07-02-2016, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Then why make women wear black bags?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuYXyvmfgSc

The Burka is traditional the people of the Arabian peninsula and predates Islam. There is no command that requires women to wear the Burka, however both men and women are required to dress modestly. Arabic culture and tradition does not speak for all Muslims. Traditional Asian clothing is much more common among Muslims than Arabic clothing. There is nothing in the Qur'an or Ahadith that require women to wear the Burka nor anything that gives any man permission to force a woman to wear it against her free will.
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Old 07-02-2016, 11:39 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The Burka is traditional the people of the Arabian peninsula and predates Islam. There is no command that requires women to wear the Burka, however both men and women are required to dress modestly. Arabic culture and tradition does not speak for all Muslims. Traditional Asian clothing is much more common among Muslims than Arabic clothing. There is nothing in the Qur'an or Ahadith that require women to wear the Burka nor anything that gives any man permission to force a woman to wear it against her free will.
Quran (33:59) - "Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them..."

Quran (24:31) - "And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known." The woman is not only supposed to cover herself, except with relatives, but to look down, so as to avoid making eye-contact with men.

Quran (33:55) - "It shall be no crime in them as to their fathers, or their sons, or their brothers, or their brothers’ sons, or their sisters’ sons, or their woman, or the slaves which their right hands possess, if they speak to them unveiled" A woman may present herself without a veil only to family and slaves.

Bukhari (6:321) - Muhammad is asked whether it is right for a young woman to leave her house without a veil. He replies, "She should cover herself with the veil of her companion."

Bukhari (60:282) - After Muhammad issued the command (Quran 24:31) for women to cover themselves, the women responded by tearing up sheets to cover their faces.

Abu Dawud (32:4092) - The Apostle of Allah... said: "O Asma', when a woman reaches the age of menstruation, it does not suit her that she displays her parts of body except this and this, and he pointed to her face and hands" This was narrated by Aisha.

Abu Dawud (2:641) - The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Allah does not accept the prayer of a woman who has reached puberty unless she wears a veil.

Bukhari (52:250) - [The Prophet said] "It is not permissible for a man to be alone with a woman, and no lady should travel except with a Muhram (i.e. her husband or a person whom she cannot marry in any case for ever; e.g. her father, brother, etc.)." - Neither is a woman allowed to travel by herself.

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/p...ran/veils.aspx
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Old 07-02-2016, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Quran (33:59) - "Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them..."

Quran (24:31) - "And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known." The woman is not only supposed to cover herself, except with relatives, but to look down, so as to avoid making eye-contact with men.

Quran (33:55) - "It shall be no crime in them as to their fathers, or their sons, or their brothers, or their brothers’ sons, or their sisters’ sons, or their woman, or the slaves which their right hands possess, if they speak to them unveiled" A woman may present herself without a veil only to family and slaves.

Bukhari (6:321) - Muhammad is asked whether it is right for a young woman to leave her house without a veil. He replies, "She should cover herself with the veil of her companion."

Bukhari (60:282) - After Muhammad issued the command (Quran 24:31) for women to cover themselves, the women responded by tearing up sheets to cover their faces.

Abu Dawud (32:4092) - The Apostle of Allah... said: "O Asma', when a woman reaches the age of menstruation, it does not suit her that she displays her parts of body except this and this, and he pointed to her face and hands" This was narrated by Aisha.

Abu Dawud (2:641) - The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Allah does not accept the prayer of a woman who has reached puberty unless she wears a veil.

Bukhari (52:250) - [The Prophet said] "It is not permissible for a man to be alone with a woman, and no lady should travel except with a Muhram (i.e. her husband or a person whom she cannot marry in any case for ever; e.g. her father, brother, etc.)." - Neither is a woman allowed to travel by herself.

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/p...ran/veils.aspx

No where does any of that command a woman to wear the burka.
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Old 07-02-2016, 01:32 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,371 posts, read 1,500,940 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Not if life is a test as we believe and facing sexual desires is part of this test. Life is a learning and testing experience in which we learn what our options and choices are and what choices we will choose of our own free will.
This presupposes that marriage - an only too human construct has divine approval. Re 'evil' - a strong word - evil, one might suggest, is a belief system that - in its non secularized form, in theory, if not always in practice, would kill adherents who decide to reject it. So much for 'free will'.
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Old 07-02-2016, 01:39 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,644 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
No where does any of that command a woman to wear the burka.
It pretty much does! And nowhere does it say to wear what you want and men must control their sexual desires. No, instead we see.....

Quran (33:59) - "Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them..."

This is totally in line with my point that this:

"Not if life is a test as we believe and facing sexual desires is part of this test."

Is hogwash.

It's no test if the women are covered up like garbage. Where is the test in that?

Quran (24:31) - "And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known." The woman is not only supposed to cover herself, except with relatives, but to look down, so as to avoid making eye-contact with men.

Quran (33:55) - "It shall be no crime in them as to their fathers, or their sons, or their brothers, or their brothers’ sons, or their sisters’ sons, or their woman, or the slaves which their right hands possess, if they speak to them unveiled" A woman may present herself without a veil only to family and slaves.

Bukhari (6:321) - Muhammad is asked whether it is right for a young woman to leave her house without a veil. He replies, "She should cover herself with the veil of her companion."

Bukhari (60:282) - After Muhammad issued the command (Quran 24:31) for women to cover themselves, the women responded by tearing up sheets to cover their faces.

Abu Dawud (32:4092) - The Apostle of Allah... said: "O Asma', when a woman reaches the age of menstruation, it does not suit her that she displays her parts of body except this and this, and he pointed to her face and hands" This was narrated by Aisha.

Abu Dawud (2:641) - The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Allah does not accept the prayer of a woman who has reached puberty unless she wears a veil.

Bukhari (52:250) - [The Prophet said] "It is not permissible for a man to be alone with a woman, and no lady should travel except with a Muhram (i.e. her husband or a person whom she cannot marry in any case for ever; e.g. her father, brother, etc.)."
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Old 07-02-2016, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by modernist1 View Post
This presupposes that marriage - an only too human construct has divine approval. Re 'evil' - a strong word - evil, one might suggest, is a belief system that - in its non secularized form, in theory, if not always in practice, would kill adherents who decide to reject it. So much for 'free will'.

In Islam Marriage is a civil contract between an eligible male and female. In the Nikkah each states what they will provide and what they demand the other to provide. If bth parties are in agreement, they sign the contract(nikkah) before witnesses chosen by both parties and that is what is considered marriage.


Under criminal law it is a hadud crime for people that do not have a valid Nikkah (contract) to engage in any form of sexual contact
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Old 07-02-2016, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
It pretty much does! And nowhere does it say to wear what you want and men must control their sexual desires. No, instead we see.....

Quran (33:59) - "Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them..."

This is totally in line with my point that this:

"Not if life is a test as we believe and facing sexual desires is part of this test."

Is hogwash.

It's no test if the women are covered up like garbage. Where is the test in that?

Quran (24:31) - "And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known." The woman is not only supposed to cover herself, except with relatives, but to look down, so as to avoid making eye-contact with men.

Quran (33:55) - "It shall be no crime in them as to their fathers, or their sons, or their brothers, or their brothers’ sons, or their sisters’ sons, or their woman, or the slaves which their right hands possess, if they speak to them unveiled" A woman may present herself without a veil only to family and slaves.

Bukhari (6:321) - Muhammad is asked whether it is right for a young woman to leave her house without a veil. He replies, "She should cover herself with the veil of her companion."

Bukhari (60:282) - After Muhammad issued the command (Quran 24:31) for women to cover themselves, the women responded by tearing up sheets to cover their faces.

Abu Dawud (32:4092) - The Apostle of Allah... said: "O Asma', when a woman reaches the age of menstruation, it does not suit her that she displays her parts of body except this and this, and he pointed to her face and hands" This was narrated by Aisha.

Abu Dawud (2:641) - The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Allah does not accept the prayer of a woman who has reached puberty unless she wears a veil.

Bukhari (52:250) - [The Prophet said] "It is not permissible for a man to be alone with a woman, and no lady should travel except with a Muhram (i.e. her husband or a person whom she cannot marry in any case for ever; e.g. her father, brother, etc.)."

Just going to address this.


Quote:
Bukhari (6:321) - Muhammad is asked whether it is right for a young woman to leave her house without a veil. He replies, "She should cover herself with the veil of her companion."

Do you believe that means she should share the veil her companion is wearing, or she should steal her companions veil and wear it. or does it mean having a companion will serve the same purpose as a veil?


Are you aware a woman is forbidden to wear a veil to Mecca for Hajj?


Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds; and blessings and peace be upon our Prophet Muhammad and upon all his Family and Companions.
It is forbidden for the woman to wear the niqab (veil) during the Hajj (pilgrimage) or the Umrah. Prophet Muhammad (Blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “A woman in Ihram (in the state of ritual consecration during Hajj or Umrah) should not cover her face or put on gloves”. Narrated by al-Bukhari. If she needed to cover her face because of being among some non Mahram men, in this case, she could use the garment on her head to do so. Aisha (may Allah pleased with her) said: “Men on camels (or on foot) used to pass by us while we were with the Prophet Muhammad (Blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and in the state of Ihram. We would cover our faces with our gowns when they passed by us, and then uncover them again”. (Reported by Abu Dawood). And Allah knows best.


Wearing niqab during Umrah or Hajj - Islam web - English
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Old 07-02-2016, 02:56 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,644 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Just going to address this.





Do you believe that means she should share the veil her companion is wearing, or she should steal her companions veil and wear it. or does it mean having a companion will serve the same purpose as a veil?


Are you aware a woman is forbidden to wear a veil to Mecca for Hajj?


Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds; and blessings and peace be upon our Prophet Muhammad and upon all his Family and Companions.
It is forbidden for the woman to wear the niqab (veil) during the Hajj (pilgrimage) or the Umrah. Prophet Muhammad (Blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “A woman in Ihram (in the state of ritual consecration during Hajj or Umrah) should not cover her face or put on gloves”. Narrated by al-Bukhari. If she needed to cover her face because of being among some non Mahram men, in this case, she could use the garment on her head to do so. Aisha (may Allah pleased with her) said: “Men on camels (or on foot) used to pass by us while we were with the Prophet Muhammad (Blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and in the state of Ihram. We would cover our faces with our gowns when they passed by us, and then uncover them again”. (Reported by Abu Dawood). And Allah knows best.


Wearing niqab during Umrah or Hajj - Islam web - English
It means she should wear a veil! Why? So Muslim men won't rape her! How does this fit in with your claim that
"Not if life is a test as we believe and facing sexual desires is part of this test."

Quit trying to introduce side issues! In fact. don't bother answering. The verses I posted say it all.
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Old 07-02-2016, 11:30 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,581,295 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Unfortunately your argument is in ignorance of your control over your SELF (your smartphone).

What you are presenting here is your brain is like a smartphone and it calls the wrong numbers by itself.

Your analogies are getting worse day by day.
Btw, I did not mention the smartphone call the wrong number by itself. The error is done by the caller or programmed by the caller.

Can you show why my analogy is way out in terms of the 'infinite' combination and permutations of the connections and the potential errors in these connections?

You cannot perceive the analogy I gave because you are ignorant of the anatomy and workings of the brain.
Btw, all humans has a generic brain fundamentally with variations in certain forms.

I suggest you educate yourself on the anatomy and workings of the brain, such knowledge is easily accessible these day from the WWW.com, then you will find my analogy make sense.
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