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Old 06-26-2016, 03:54 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 751,713 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
For you, it has to be different. But it is not different if thousands have to be killed first for peace.
Because you refuse to admit the difference between INITIATION and RETALIATION. The Japanese INITIATED force. Islam INITIATES force. The bombs were dropped in RETALIATION.

For this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1kixqRwvK0

And, in fact, the bombs dropped saved many lives.

"If the atomic bomb had not been used, evidence like that I have cited points to the practical certainty that there would have been many more months of death and destruction on an enormous scale."
If the Atomic Bomb Had Not Been Used - The Atlantic

This is what you wish for. Death and destruction on a much, much larger scale. And you wish for the USA to be attacked but not to retaliate. Which means, you want my country destroyed.
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Old 06-26-2016, 04:03 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 661,767 times
Reputation: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Because you refuse to admit the difference between INITIATION and RETALIATION. The Japanese INITIATED force. Islam INITIATES force. The bombs were dropped in RETALIATION.

For this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1kixqRwvK0

And, in fact, the bombs dropped saved many lives.

"If the atomic bomb had not been used, evidence like that I have cited points to the practical certainty that there would have been many more months of death and destruction on an enormous scale."
If the Atomic Bomb Had Not Been Used - The Atlantic

This is what you wish for. Death and destruction on a much, much larger scale. And you wish for the USA to be attacked but not to retaliate. Which means, you want my country destroyed.
If the Arabs and Muslims atomic bombs or any other weapons possessed, then it would be terrible
Praise be to God that the Arabs do not have those bombs
Because terrorism will be different in another way
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Old 06-27-2016, 12:02 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,583,862 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
For you, it has to be different. But it is not different if thousands have to be killed first for peace.
First all wars are fundamentally immoral. But where war has started it must be stopped in the most optimal moral manner. Thereafter humanity must find ways to prevent wars from starting.
The problem with Islam is it provide a very volatile atmosphere [of DUCK-RABBIT] and scenario for SOME [not all] Muslims who are born with evil tendencies to start wars as a genuine duty to please Allah.

Quote:
That is doing fantastic mental gymnastics just to make your point about Islam tries to ensure dominating every human being on earth. It could not be further from the truth. This is how you completely ignore the guidance of the Qur'an, "if they incline to peace, then incline to it and trust in Allah" (8:61). The kuffar had been attacking Muslims for about 20 years until they inclined to peace. Muslims too inclined to peace with those kuffar who were attacking Muslims.
It is not my mental gymnastic but based on what is really going on with Islam's influence on a critical 'SOME' Muslims to commit REAL terrible evils and violence around the world.

When you refer to that situation it would imply that 8:61 is only specific to that situation and not a general point in the context of the whole Quran and the ethos of Islam.

The general mood of the Quran [words of Allah] and Islam is that it generate an overriding ethos of dominance [note the verses I had quoted] and Muslims are given to have that arrogant view plus Islam is under threat from non-Muslims at all times.

Quote:
First of all, "deen" in Arabic does not mean "religion". In Arabic, "madhhab" is "religion". Deen is the Way and Judgment of Allah. It is the Way a Muslim should live his life on earth. The reference to prevailing over other way was prevailing over the way of idol worshiping in Makkah and Madina where the Qur'an was being revealed; the reason idolaters (muskrikeen) are mentioned in the verse to be averse to Allah's guidance. No other group is mentioned in the verse except idolaters (mushrikeen). Non-Muslims are not all mushrikeen (idolaters). So your including non-Muslims with kuffar as infidels in the previous statement is not very intelligent.
That is my point.
I deliberately put [alddeeni] beside the translated 'religion' to show that verse refer to 'deen'.
This imply I do not take it that 'deen' in Arabic directly meant 'religion' in English.

Quote:
Infidels is a word used by Christians during their crusades against Muslims. The crusaders were regarding Muslims "infidels". In Islamic term, Idol worshipers or idolaters are called "Mushrikeen" (worshipers of more than one god) in the Qur'an. Jews and Christians are never called Mushrikeen in the Qur'an.
To simply my reading of the Quran, I refer to most of those who are non-Muslims as 'infidels'.
Note there are many Muslims who refer to non-Muslims as infidels in the general sense. So there is nothing wrong for me to use the term 'infidels' in general.
Where the matter warrant serious discussion and disputations then I will refer to the specific, i.e. idolators, Jews, Christians, etc.

In other cases I use "them" [not in the Quran] in relation to 'us versus them" in this case "them" refer to any one who is not a Muslim, i.e. non-Muslims.

Note in may analysis, I noted 3500++ verses refer to non-Muslims [infidels] in some degree of negativity but I have a sub-analysis of 30 topics for 'infidels'. Therefore I can get to the specific terms as an when necessary and appropriate.

Quote:
In the verse 9:33 that you have quoted above with Arabic in [], [infidel] and [Islam] are not there in the verse in Arabic. You needed to put "deen" and "mushrikeen" in [] in place of "Islam" and "infidel" in [].
As I mentioned those terms I put in [] are merely general terms. If we are to debate the point I will go into the details and if necessary I will refer to 45++ of English translations.
The main point in 9:33 in this case is the term "prevail" over [aldeeni] or other religions in one sense. The point to emphasize in this case is the arrogance of Islam over any else. So the other terms are secondary not primary. Get it?

Quote:
Judging by your quoting just one verse (9:33) here, I can well imagine how many more mistakes you must have made with other verses.
I have explained my reason of simplification for infidel and I deliberate put in [aldeeni] as a specific term to differentiate it from 'religion' in English.

Quote:
You will never understand the Qur'an until you give a dam hoot about what I am saying to you about your mistakes about the Qur'an.
I have my reasons for doing what I am doing and is well aware of limits of it.
To me it is not a mistake at all. I have no issue getting to the point if we are to debate the relevant matter.
To me the terms has to be in relation to the context of the verses, e.g. where necessary, it would mean the following;

1. Infidel -nonMuslim-Jew
2. Infidel -nonMuslim-Christian
3. Infidel -nonMuslim-Idolater
4. Infidel -nonMuslim-atheist


I will not be committing this stupid logic like;
1. X is an infidel
2. X is a Jew
3. Therefore all infidels are Jews.

When I used the term 'infidel' or 'non-Muslims' I will always refer to the context of the verses in committing to whatever proposition when discussing the point.

When your competence of logic is so low, don't try to teach me about common logical sense.

Last edited by Continuum; 06-27-2016 at 12:15 AM..
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Old 06-27-2016, 01:03 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 661,767 times
Reputation: 204
to-Continuum
My friend
Gulf War between Iraq and America
America occupied Iraq
Is America said it would fight the infidels
Is the US military announced the legalization of booty and women as slaves Iraqi war
I've watched the US military discipline in the clash Qguagd
In one of the units that you belong to it
The US planes before they hit their targets allow the escape of fighters from the strike site
And is then hit the target
Because America was very destruction of military equipment
So even the concept of war is different between the Koran and moral wars
Muslims are wars where the booty and captives
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Old 06-27-2016, 01:12 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 661,767 times
Reputation: 204
n the year 1991
Gndma been hit Nasiriyah bridge
Fariba you from that place
But after the war Gervoa the pilot who hit the bridge is from the United Arab Emirates
Who did not give enough time to evacuate the bridge before hitting
There are other facts you're in.
In the heart of the event
That is why I say there is a big difference between the concept of Holy War
And between the wars waged by armies disciplined moral standards
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