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Old 06-28-2016, 01:23 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 666,260 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller View Post


you are missing the main objective of all these threads about scientific facts in the Holy Quran or in the saying of The Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessing of Allah be upon him)

The main objective is to help those who do not believe in the creator or do not believe in his final messenger , to help them find the truth
by highlighting all these scientific facts that can not be declared by some one illiterate lived 1400 ago years in a desert area and his main experience are camels .

How could The Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) say these scientific if he did not receive them from Allah
Muhammad was a merchant with his wife Khadija
And transferred to Syria and mingled mg Romans because trade means that exchange goods
The Arabian Peninsula is not the image that they give you
It was the cousin of Mohammed Vasa Nsssranaa
And also Christianity was widespread in the Arab tribes
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Old 06-28-2016, 09:53 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,592,701 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller View Post
you are missing the main objective of all these threads about scientific facts in the Holy Quran or in the saying of The Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessing of Allah be upon him)

The main objective is to help those who do not believe in the creator or do not believe in his final messenger , to help them find the truth
by highlighting all these scientific facts that can not be declared by some one illiterate lived 1400 ago years in a desert area and his main experience are camels .

How could The Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) say these scientific if he did not receive them from Allah
Truths?? for the unbelievers?
The above are more like half-cooked truths and lies.
I fully understand the purpose of the thread is to convince unbelievers some one illiterate living 1400 ago years could only have heard it from Allah via Gabriel. However I do not agree that is the case.

My points;
You are merely making the assumption that the Quran was recited by Muhammad.

Before you claim the above you have to prove the said historical Muhammad existed as real and it is not a myth.

You will need to prove the present Quran was transmitted directly from Muhammad in the 7th century.
There are tons of evidence to prove the present Quran was compiled many hundred years after the supposed death of Muhammad in 632AD.

In addition you have to prove Allah exists as real.

As far as the 360 joints are concerned there is definitely a possibility this point was introduced by humans who authored or compiled the present Quran hundreds of years after the death of Muhammad.
There was no illiterate Muhammad who lived 1,400 years ago who heard from Gabriel there are 360 joints in the human body.
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Old 06-28-2016, 11:34 PM
 
1,884 posts, read 1,658,282 times
Reputation: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Before you claim the above you have to prove the said historical Muhammad existed as real and it is not a myth.
.
is this man also a myth?

Abū Bakr ‘Abdallāh bin Abī Quḥāfah aṣ-Ṣiddīq (Arabic: أبو بكر عبد الله بن أبي قحافة الصديق‎‎; c. 573 CE – 22 August 634 CE) popularly known as Abu Bakr (أبو بكر),was a senior companion (Sahabi) and—through his daughter Aisha the father-in-law of the Islamic prophet Muhammad. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Bakr

Quote:
You will need to prove the present Quran was transmitted directly from Muhammad in the 7th century
Among the Muslims in this era there are people who got and memorized the Quran orally from someone who got it and memorized it from someone before him
and so on until they reach to the time of the final prophet and they got it and memorized it from the Prophet
and the Prophet got it from Gabriel and Gabriel got from Allah.

And if you hear all the Quran from them every one will say the same thing and also if you compare what they said to the first written copy of the Quran you will find them identical.




.
Quote:
In addition you have to prove Allah exists as real..
The universe , us , the Holy Quran , The Hadith and the miracles in them are proofs.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1onncmJza8c
.
Quote:


As far as the 360 joints are concerned there is definitely a possibility this point was introduced by humans who authored or compiled the present Quran hundreds of years after the death of Muhammad.
There was no illiterate Muhammad who lived 1,400 years ago who heard from Gabriel there are 360 joints in the human body.
that is only one of many and many miracles .
are you going to say same thing for each one?
.
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Old 06-29-2016, 11:15 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,592,701 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller View Post
is this man also a myth?

Abū Bakr ‘Abdallāh bin Abī Quḥāfah aṣ-Ṣiddīq (Arabic: أبو بكر عبد الله بن أبي قحافة الصديق‎‎; c. 573 CE – 22 August 634 CE) popularly known as Abu Bakr (أبو بكر),was a senior companion (Sahabi) and—through his daughter Aisha the father-in-law of the Islamic prophet Muhammad. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Bakr
Unless there are substantial historical evidence it is possible Abū Bakr ‘Abdallāh bin Abī Quḥāfah aṣ-Ṣiddīq is a myth.

This is just like Robin Hood and his merry men.
It may be true during that time there could be some one who lead a group to rob passengers and give away some of his loots to his community.
Then this person and his group was mystified into a myth as a story by the folks which is then handed down the generations as a story.

It is the same with Gautama Buddha in the case of Buddhism. I don't believe there was a real historical Buddha who had the disciples as claimed and recited the many sutras as existed in the present. There were many kingdom then and there could be a prince who left his palace to be an ascetic. Some groups could have used this story as a base to compile all the loose sutras around that time and promote it as a religion.

In the case of the Quran and Islam, it is possible there could be a preacher who turned warlord in the company of close associates around the 7th century and the handed-down-story was compiled by a group of humans as a holy texts with its associated story.

So yes, it is possible Abū Bakr ‘Abdallāh bin Abī Quḥāfah aṣ-Ṣiddīq is a myth.


Quote:
Among the Muslims in this era there are people who got and memorized the Quran orally from someone who got it and memorized it from someone before him
and so on until they reach to the time of the final prophet and they got it and memorized it from the Prophet, and the Prophet got it from Gabriel and Gabriel got from Allah.

And if you hear all the Quran from them every one will say the same thing and also if you compare what they said to the first written copy of the Quran you will find them identical.
If you understand what is memory all about and the weaknesses of memory, you will never used memory as a basis to justify your point. As a Muslim you MUST ignore all this fact of the limitation of memory to convince yourself it is possible for humans to have 100% perfect memory.
But as a human being you MUST be realistic and understand there 100% perfect memory is impossible especially when oral texts are transmitted over so may hundred years till it is written as a standard.

As for the available copies of Quran none of them are all the same and they are incomplete copies. The only complete text copy is from the 1100AD [? to confirm exact date].




Quote:
The universe , us , the Holy Quran , The Hadith and the miracles in them are proofs.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1onncmJza8c
.
that is only one of many and many miracles .
are you going to say same thing for each one?
.
As far as what are from the Ahadiths are from Muhammad they cannot be reliably treated as from Allah.
It is a sham to squeeze any relation of things stated in the Quran to Science. This is only done by insecured people and those with low self-esteem.

The purpose of the association with Science in the Quran is to prove that the Quran was from Allah. The better way is simply to prove Allah exists as real, then we can do away with all those flimsy associations with Science.
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Old 07-01-2016, 08:41 AM
 
1,884 posts, read 1,658,282 times
Reputation: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Unless there are substantial historical evidence it is possible Abū Bakr ‘Abdallāh bin Abī Quḥāfah aṣ-Ṣiddīq is a myth.

This is just like Robin Hood and his merry men.
.
here is another myth ruling Sasanian Empire and conquest of Persia

ʿUmar ibn Al-Khattāb

He was a senior Sahabi of the Islamic prophet Muhammad. He succeeded Abu Bakr (632–634) as the second caliph of the Rashidun Caliphate

Under Umar, the caliphate expanded at an unprecedented rate, ruling the Sasanian Empire and more than two-thirds of the Byzantine Empire.
His attacks against the Sasanian Empire resulted in the conquest of Persia in fewer than two years (642–644) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umar
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