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Old 07-01-2016, 12:27 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,581,295 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
to-Continuum
I'm sorry
Provided evidence of the books of the Muslims
But our friend says that it is not the right
Thus, there are two possibilities
First he did not know Arabic well and this is does not understand the Koran alone
Or he was trying to deception and camouflage
Through the heart of Koranic meanings and misinformation
This technique is used to gain the simple people to Islam
For this reason
I offer it like it is
ملكة of the right means concubines and slaves
ملكة of the property
And right hand grip
Here i Send following question
Why not allow the woman to ملك of right of Muslims as men?????
Where is divine justice??????
RE your,
ملكة of the right means concubines and slaves

I'll be interested if you are correct.
Do you have any reference to support the above.
Can we trace ملكة to a dictionary to show that it meant concubines or slaves?

btw, 4:24 mentioned أَيْمَانُكُمْ as right which is different from your right ملكة.

If you are referring to the right الْيَمِينِ as in 74:39

إِلَّا أَصْحَابَ الْيَمِينِ
Illa as-haba alyameeni
74:39 Except (the) companions (of) the right,

I don't believe that is applicable to our argument re 4:24

Last edited by Continuum; 07-01-2016 at 01:04 AM..
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Old 07-01-2016, 02:51 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,682 times
Reputation: 204
[quote=Continuum;44607246]RE your,
ملكة of the right means concubines and slaves

I'll be interested if you are correct.
Do you have any reference to support the above.
Can we trace ملكة to a dictionary to show that it meant concubines or slaves?

btw, 4:24 mentioned أَيْمَانُكُمْ as right which is different from your right ملكة.

If you are referring to the right الْيَمِينِ as in 74:39
The difficulty of translator

Allow me to offer you a page
Red line is intended

  1. مَلَك: ( اسم )
    الجمع : ملائك ، و ملائكة
    المَلَك : واحد الملائكة أَصْله مَأْلك ، من الأَلوكة ، ثم تصرفوا في لفظه لتخفيفه ، فقالوا : مَلْأَكٌ ، ثم نقلوا حركة الهمزة إلى اللام وحذفوا الهمزة ، قالوا مَلَك ،
    مَلَك الموت : مَلَك مُوكَّل من قِبَل الله تعالى بقبض أرواح العباد ، واسمه عِزْرَائِيلُ
    اِمْرَأَةٌ مَلَكٌ : طَاهِرَةٌ
    مَا لَهُ مَلَكٌ : لاَ يَمْلِكُ شَيْئاً
  2. مَلِك: ( اسم )
    الجمع : أَمْلاكٌ ، و مُلوك
    المَلِكُ :: صفة مشبَّهة تدلّ على الثبوت من ملَكَ : صاحب الأمر والسّلطة على أمّة أو بلاد ، شخص يحكم أو يتولّى الملك في منطقة بحكم الوراثة ولمدى الحياة ،
    جَلاَلَةُ الْمَلِكِ : صَاحِبُ الأَمْرِ والسُّلْطَةِ عَلَى بِلاَدٍ تَخْضَعُ لَهُ مَلِكَةُ سَبَإٍ
    مَلِكَةُ الْجَمَالِ : مَنْ تُخْتارُ فِي مُبَارَاةٍ دَوْلِيَّةٍ مِنْ بَيْنِ العَدِيدِ مِنَ النِّسَاءِ وَيُنْظَرُ إِلَيْهَا على أَنَّها أَجْمَلُ امْرَأَةٍ
    مَلِكَةُ النَّحْلِ : يَعْسُوبُهَا
  3. مَلك: ( اسم )
    الجمع : مُلُوكٌ
    المَلْكُ : المَلِكُ
    المَلْكُ : ما ملكت اليدُ من مال وخَوَل
    المَلْكُ : إرادة حُرّةُ
    مصدر ملَكَ
    أعطاني من مَلْكه : ممّا يقدر عليه
    طال مَلْكُه : طال رقُّه
  4. مُلْك: ( اسم )
    مُلْك : مصدر ملَكَ
  5. مُلَّك: ( اسم )
    مُلَّك : جمع مالِك
  6. مُلك: ( اسم )
    الجمع : أَمْلاَكٌ
    مصدر مَلَكَ
    اِلمُلْكُ : ما يُمَلك ويُتصرّف فيه
    أَرْضٌ فِي مُلْكِهِ : مَمْلُوكَةٌ لَهُ ، يَمْلِكُهَا ، يَتَصَرَّفُ فِيهَا عَقَارٌ فِي مُلْكِهِ
    لَهُ مُلْكٌ تَلِيدٌ : عَظَمَةٌ ، سُلْطَانٌ
    المُلك : اسم سورة من سور القرآن الكريم ، وهي السُّورة رقم 67 في ترتيب المصحف ، مكِّيَّة ، عدد آياتها ثلاثون آية
  7. مِلك: ( اسم )
    الجمع : أملاك
    مصدر ملَكَ
    شيء مملوك يمكن لصاحبه أن يتصرّف فيه عنده أملاك واسعة ،
    أملاك الدولة : ما تملكه الدولةُ من أبنية وعقارات ،
    أملاك الشَّخص : مقتنياته كلّها ، التي تقدم لرفع الديون عند الإفلاس
    المِلْك الثابت : العقار ، الأرض وما عليها من موارد أو أبنية ،
    صاحب المِلك : المالك ، المقتنِي ،
    مِلْكي : لي ، خاصّتي
  8. ملَكَ: ( فعل )
    ملَكَ يملُك ويَملِك ، مُلْكًا ، فهو مالكٌ والجمع : مَلَكَ مُلّكٌ ، ومُلاَّك ، والمفعول مَمْلوك
    ملَك الشَّيءَ : استولى عليه وكان في قدرته أن يتصرّف فيه بما يريد ، تمكّن منه ملَك ضَيْعة ،
    مَلَكَ عَلَى القَوْمِ : اِسْتَوْلَى عَلَيْهِمْ
    ملك غرائزَه : سيطر وتغلّب عليها ، كبتَها ،
    ملَك نفسَه / ملك زِمامَ نفسه : تحكَّم فيها ، قدر على حبسها
    ملَك العجينَ : شدّده وقوّاه ، أنعم عجنَه وأجاده
    مَلَكَ عَلَيْهِ حُبُّهَا عَاطِفَتَهُ : شَغَلَهُ ، أَثَّرَ فِيهِ ، اِسْتَوْلَى عَلَيْهِ
    لاَ أَمْلِكُ مِنَ الأَمْرِ شَيْئاً : لاَ قُدْرَةَ لِي عَلَى أَنْ أَفْعَلَ شَيْئاً
    مَلَكَ الرَّجُلُ حَقَّ الشَّفَاعَةِ : جَازَ لَهُ أَنْ يَشْفَعَ
    مَلَكَ الخِشْفُ أُمُّه : قَوِيَ وقَدَرَ أَن يتبعها
  9. ملَّكَ: ( فعل )
    ملَّكَ يملِّك ، تَمليكًا ، فهو مُمَلِّك ، والمفعول مُملَّك
    ملَّكهُ أرضًا / ملَّكه على أرضٍ : أملكه إيَّاها ، جعلها ملكًا له
    ملَّك القومُ الشّخصَ عليهم : أملكوه ، صيّروه ملكًا عليهم يأمرهم وينهاهم ويطيعوه ، ويتصرّف في أمورهم
    ملَّك فلانًا أمرَه : أملكه ، خلاّه وشأنه ، جعله يتصرّف كيفما يشاء
    مَلَّك النَّبْعَةَ : صَلَّبَها ويَبَّسها في الشمس
    مَلَّكَهُ ابْنَتَهُ : زَوَّجَهُ إِيَّاهَا
  10. يَمين: ( اسم )
    الجمع : أَيْمُنٌ ، و أَيْمَانٌ ، و أَيامِنُ
    اليَمِينُ : ضِدّ اليسار ، للجهة والجارحة
    اليَمِينُ : القَسَم ، الَبَيِّنَةُ عَلَى مَنِ ادَّعَى وَالْيَمِينُ عَلَى مَنْ أَنْكَرَ [ حديث ]
    اليَمِينُ : البركةُ
    هو عندنا باليمين : بالمنزلة الحسنة
    يمين الله : أُقْسِم بالله
    اليَمين الغَموس : ( الفقه ) يمين كاذبة تغمس صاحبَها في النّار لأنّه يحلف وهو يعلم أنّه كاذب
    اليَمين اللَّغْو : ( الفقه ) ما يحلف عليه الشَّخص ظانًّا أنّه كذا وهو بخلافه ، أو ما ورد على اللِّسان بغير قصد
    اليَمين القَضائيَّة : ( القانون ) اليَمين التي تتمّ أمام القضاء ، وهي نوعان : حاسمة وهي التي يوجِّهها خصم إلى خصمه ليحسم بها النِّزاع ، ومتمِّمة وهي التي توجِّهها المحكمة من تلقاء نفسها إلى أحد الخصوم
    يمين الأمانة : ( القانون ) اليَمين التي كان القاضي يلي تحليفها المدَّعي أو المدَّعى عليه كلّما استشعر أنّ واحدًا منهما يفعل أو يهمل شيئًا غدرًا
    يمين المبرَّة : ( القانون ) اليَمين التي كان يحلفها الخصمان تلو انتصاب الخصومة ، أي أنّهما أقاماها اعتقادًا بصدقها ويواصلانها بلا خيانة
    اليَمين الدُّستوريَّة : ( القانون ) القسم الذي يتعهّد فيه رئيس الجمهوريّة قُبَيْل تسلُّمه الحكم بالمحافظة على الدستور
    ذات اليَمين : جهة اليمين ،
    يمينًا وشمالاً : إلى اليمين وإلى اليسار
    أصْحاب اليَمين : أهل الجنّة ،
    ما ملكت يمينه : ممتلكاته ،
    مِلْك اليَمين : الإماء

    أحزاب اليَمين : الأحزاب المحافظة وهي التي تميل إلى الاعتدال في الحياة السياسيّة والقضايا العامَّة ويقابلها : الأحزاب اليساريّة
  11. يَمين: ( اسم )
    يَمين : فاعل من يَمُنَ
  12. مالِك: ( اسم )
    الجمع : مالكون و مُلاَّك و مُلَّك
    فاعل مِنْ مَلَكَ
    مالِك : صاحب المِلْك
    مالِك : اسم خازن النّار
    أبو مالك : كنية الكِبَر والسن
    أبو مالك : كنية الجوع
    مالك الحزين : ( الحيوان ) البلشون ؛ طائر مائيّ كبير الحجم طويل العنق والجناحين والساقين ، يغتذي بالأسماك ، سمّي بذلك لأَنَّه بزعمهم يقعد بقرب المياه والمنابع ، فإِذا نشفت حزِنَ على جفافها وبقى حزينًا ، ويُعرَفُ في مِصرَ بالبَلَشُون
  13. أَلَكَ: ( فعل )
    أَلَكَ يأْلِكُ أَلْكًا ، وأُلُوكًا
    أَلَكَ الفرسُ اللجامَ : عَلَكَهُ وَمَضَغَهُ
    الأَلوك والأَلُوكة والمَأْلُكة والمَأْلُك : الرسالة والمَأْلُكة ، على وزن مَفْعُلة ، سميت أَلوكاً لأَنه يُؤْلَكُ في الفم
    الأَلوكُ : الرَّسولُ
    أَلَكَ فلانًا أَلْكًا : أَبلغه الأَلوك أي الرسالة
    أَلِكْنى إِلى فلان برسالة أَو رسالةً : كن رسولي إِليه ، وهو على عكس الظاهر منه
    المَلَك : واحد الملائكة أَصْله مَأْلك ، من الأَلوكة ، ثم تصرفوا في لفظه لتخفيفه ، فقالوا : مَلْأَكٌ ، ثم نقلوا حركة الهمزة إلى اللام وحذفوا الهمزة
    مَلائكة ومَلائك : جمع مَلأَكٌ
  14. مَلاَئِكَة: ( اسم )
    الملائكة : جمع مَلاَك ومألك و مَلأَك
    مَلَك أَصْله مَأْلك ، من الأَلوكة ، ثم تصرفوا في لفظه لتخفيفه ، فقالوا : مَلْأَك ، ثم نقلوا حركة الهمزة إلى اللام وحذفوا الهمزة ، قالوا مَلَك
  15. مانَ: ( فعل )
    مَانَ مَيْنًا فهو مائنٌ وَمَيَّانٌ
    مَانَ فلانٌ : كَذَبَ
  16. وَمَى: ( فعل )
    وَمَى ( يَمِي ) وَمْيًا
    وَمَى : لغةٌ في وَمَأَ
    وَمَى بالشيءِ : ذَهَبَ به
  17. يَمُنَ: ( فعل )
    يمُنَ على / يمُنَ لـ ييمُن ، يُمْنًا وميمنةً ، ، فهو يامِنٌ ، ويَمينٌ ، وأَيْمَنُ ، والمفعول مَيْمُون عليه
    يمُن على آله / يمُن لآله : يمَن عليهم ، كان مُباركًا عليهم
The مِلْك of right:
It is owned slaves, and the right proportion to the metaphorical hand to signify what is under his control and his hand.
---------------------------------------------------------


This is the position of Muslim Scholars
However, the wives or proprietary) What is the inter proprietary in our time, and his rule. Thank you
Answer

Praise be to God, prayer and peace be upon the Messenger of Allah and his family and companions either:

The right word in the verse as stated in the Qur'an thus: (only on their spouses or possess their oaths, they are not to blame) [Believers: 6], [Ascent: 30].
And the ملكة of right: those who are slaves Almmlokon their own slaves, male or female.
What is meant by saying (or possess their oaths): Women of the slave, who are slaves, as it is entitled to Malleken Atohn that is not a marriage contract, no witnesses, no dowry, they are age mates, if Aguen beefy (concubines) Collection: confidential.
Almost slavery came to an end in our time, is no longer there slaves and concubines for reasons unknown, this does not mean revocation provisions slavery if you find its causes, like Jihad between Muslims and infidels, the non-Muslim women warriors slaves apply to them the provisions of slavery, and the king of the right, but nullified the people of the land laws . Unless there are legitimate reasons for this, the basic principle is that people are free.
Ibn Qudaamah in the singer said: the origin of humans freedom, the Almighty God created Adam and his descendants are free, but opposed to slavery, if he did not know that the bidder, he may originally sentenced.
The owner of the opening of the Almighty: freedom and the right of God, no one is able to neutralize except by Shara, it may not be revoked this right, and it may not be enslaved free, though pleased with it. God knows.----------------------
This is another source
ملك اليمين هو مصطلح في القرآن يشير إلى العبيد والجواري. of the right is the term used in the Koran refers to slaves and concubines.

N women originally -ame- any Maids Mmilokat Wilson silks, Just buy them to replace him Mxthn after Astbre womb Lakedh


They are slaves to those who Almmlokon their own slaves, male or female. What is meant by saying Ra bracket.png only to their spouses or what possessed their faith, they are not to blame Aya-6.png La bracket.png [1] of the slave women, who are slaves, as it is entitled to Malleken Atohn that is not a marriage contract, no witnesses, no dowry , they are age mates, if Aguen beefy (concubines) collection: confidential.

ملك of the right in the Qur'an and the Hadith

surat -al-momnon

surtat -al-ahzab-50-52-surat -al-nesae -surat al-nor

---------------------


This is the Koran
But Muslims today is trying to mislead
After Gervoa that the world rejects these teachings
Through deception and camouflage
This is what you do discussant in this forum
It rejects the interpretation of the scholars of the Muslim people and not hypocrites who attack the Book of Allah and twist mandates
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Old 07-01-2016, 04:00 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,278 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Don't try to pull a fast one me due to my handicap with Arabic.
Within the principles of linguistic there are always synonyms, i.e. similar words for the same thing but used in different context.
Therefore I am sure the referent 'slaves' owned by someone will be worded differently in the various context and "Aibadikum" is merely one general word and there are various synonyms for the referent 'slave'.
'ma malakat aymanukum' is definitely referring to slaves in the various context it is used in the Quran.

Note the various verses where the context of slave is applicable;
(1) Wain khiftum alla tuqsitoo fee alyatama fainkihoo ma taba lakum mina alnnisai mathna wathulatha warubaAAa fain khiftum alla taAAdiloo fawahidatan aw ma malakat aymanukum thalika adna alla taAAooloo
(سورة النساء, An-Nisaa, Chapter #4, Verse #3)

(2) Waalmuhsanatu mina alnnisai illa ma malakat aymanukum kitaba Allahi AAalaykum waohilla lakum ma waraa thalikum an tabtaghoo biamwalikum muhsineena ghayra musafiheena fama istamtaAAtum bihi minhunna faatoohunna ojoorahunna fareedatan wala junaha AAalaykum feema taradaytum bihi min baAAdi alfareedati inna Allaha kana AAaleeman hakeeman
(سورة النساء, An-Nisaa, Chapter #4, Verse #24)

(3) Waman lam yastatiAA minkum tawlan an yankiha almuhsanati almuminati famin ma malakat aymanukum min fatayatikumu almuminati waAllahu aAAlamu bieemanikum baAAdukum min baAAdin fainkihoohunna biithni ahlihinna waatoohunna ojoorahunna bialmaAAroofi muhsanatin ghayra masafihatin wala muttakhithati akhdanin faitha ohsinna fain atayna bifahishatin faAAalayhinna nisfu ma AAala almuhsanati mina alAAathabi thalika liman khashiya alAAanata minkum waan tasbiroo khayrun lakum waAllahu ghafoorun raheemun
(سورة النساء, An-Nisaa, Chapter #4, Verse #25)

(4) WaoAAbudoo Allaha wala tushrikoo bihi shayan wabialwalidayni ihsanan wabithee alqurba waalyatama waalmasakeeni waaljari thee alqurba waaljari aljunubi waalssahibi bialjanbi waibni alssabeeli wama malakat aymanukum inna Allaha la yuhibbu man kana mukhtalan fakhooran
(سورة النساء, An-Nisaa, Chapter #4, Verse #36)

(5) WaAllahu faddala baAAdakum AAala baAAdin fee alrrizqi fama allatheena fuddiloo biraddee rizqihim AAala ma malakat aymanuhum fahum feehi sawaon afabiniAAmati Allahi yajhadoona
(سورة النحل, An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #71)

(6) Illa AAala azwajihim aw ma malakat aymanuhum fainnahum ghayru maloomeena
(سورة المؤمنون, Al-Muminoon, Chapter #23, Verse #6)

(7) Waqul lilmuminati yaghdudna min absarihinna wayahfathna furoojahunna wala yubdeena zeenatahunna illa ma thahara minha walyadribna bikhumurihinna AAala juyoobihinna wala yubdeena zeenatahunna illa libuAAoolatihinna aw abaihinna aw abai buAAoolatihinna aw abnaihinna aw abnai buAAoolatihinna aw ikhwanihinna aw banee ikhwanihinna aw banee akhawatihinna aw nisaihinna aw ma malakat aymanuhunna awi alttabiAAeena ghayri olee alirbati mina alrrijali awi alttifli allatheena lam yathharoo AAala AAawrati alnnisai wala yadribna biarjulihinna liyuAAlama ma yukhfeena min zeenatihinna watooboo ila Allahi jameeAAan ayyuha almuminoona laAAallakum tuflihoona
(سورة النور, An-Noor, Chapter #24, Verse #31)

(8) WalyastaAAfifi allatheena la yajidoona nikahan hatta yughniyahumu Allahu min fadlihi waallatheena yabtaghoona alkitaba mimma malakat aymanukum fakatiboohum in AAalimtum feehim khayran waatoohum min mali Allahi allathee atakum wala tukrihoo fatayatikum AAala albighai in aradna tahassunan litabtaghoo AAarada alhayati alddunya waman yukrihhunna fainna Allaha min baAAdi ikrahihinna ghafoorun raheemun
(سورة النور, An-Noor, Chapter #24, Verse #33)

(9) Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo liyastathinkumu allatheena malakat aymanukum waallatheena lam yablughoo alhuluma minkum thalatha marratin min qabli salati alfajri waheena tadaAAoona thiyabakum mina alththaheerati wamin baAAdi salati alAAishai thalathu AAawratin lakum laysa AAalaykum wala AAalayhim junahun baAAdahunna tawwafoona AAalaykum baAAdukum AAala baAAdin kathalika yubayyinu Allahu lakumu alayati waAllahu AAaleemun hakeemun
(سورة النور, An-Noor, Chapter #24, Verse #58)

Daraba lakum mathalan min anfusikum hal lakum mimma malakat aymanukum min shurakaa fee ma razaqnakum faantum feehi sawaon takhafoonahum kakheefatikum anfusakum kathalika nufassilu alayati liqawmin yaAAqiloona
30:28

(11) Ya ayyuha alnnabiyyu inna ahlalna laka azwajaka allatee atayta ojoorahunna wama malakat yameenuka mimma afaa Allahu AAalayka wabanati AAammika wabanati AAammatika wabanati khalika wabanati khalatika allatee hajarna maAAaka waimraatan muminatan in wahabat nafsaha lilnnabiyyi in arada alnnabiyyu an yastankihaha khalisatan laka min dooni almumineena qad AAalimna ma faradna AAalayhim fee azwajihim wama malakat aymanuhum likayla yakoona AAalayka harajun wakana Allahu ghafooran raheeman
(سورة الأحزاب, Al-Ahzaab, Chapter #33, Verse #50)

(12) La yahillu laka alnnisao min baAAdu wala an tabaddala bihinna min azwajin walaw aAAjabaka husnuhunna illa ma malakat yameenuka wakana Allahu AAala kulli shayin raqeeban
(سورة الأحزاب, Al-Ahzaab, Chapter #33, Verse #52)

(13) La junaha AAalayhinna fee abaihinna wala abnaihinna wala ikhwanihinna wala abnai ikhwanihinna wala abnai akhawatihinna wala nisaihinna wala ma malakat aymanuhunna waittaqeena Allaha inna Allaha kana AAala kulli shayin shaheedan
(سورة الأحزاب, Al-Ahzaab, Chapter #33, Verse #55)

(14) Illa AAala azwajihim aw ma malakat aymanuhum fainnahum ghayru maloomeena
(سورة المعارج, Al-Ma'aarij, Chapter #70, Verse #30)
If you note all the verses above re ma malakat aymanuhum they generally refer to slaves in general or captured slaves in their respective context.
Note 33:50 is about sex and captured slaves.
33:50 O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war,
and the daughters of thine uncle on the father's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the father's side, and the daughters of thine uncle on the mother's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the mother's side who emigrated with thee, and a believing woman if she give herself unto the Prophet and the Prophet desire to ask her in marriage - a privilege for thee only, not for the (rest of) believers -
We are Aware of that which We enjoined upon them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess - that thou mayst be free from blame, for Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.
Don't try to bullsh:t. Note my explanation above in the context of the related verses I provided.

Don't bullsh:t again and conflate human rights standard with what is within the Quran-box. If the Quran sanction the purchase of slaves or captured slaves, that meant "owned" i.e. the life of the slave is within one's total control.

Don't insult the Quran as if Allah is stupid and do not use synonyms for different context.

Don't insult the Quran as if Allah is stupid and do not use synonyms for different context.
Continuum,

I am neither pulling a fast one nor giving you any bul*s**t because of your handicap. I am trying to make you understand the difference between all slaves (men and women), prisoners of war, and malakat ayman. Also, sex outside marriage is not allowed in Islam.

Your friend mahasn sawresho is giving a load of bull when he says that malakat is concubine and slave. He also does not understand that a wife of the prophet or a Muslim married woman could also have 'malakat ayman' (33:55).

33:55 is about malakat ayman of Muhammad's wives.

[33.55] There is no blame on them in respect of their fathers, nor their brothers, nor their brothers' sons, nor their sisters' sons nor their own women, nor of what their right hands possess (malakat ayman); and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is a witness of all things.

Could a wife of Muhammad or a married Muslim woman keep concubines or sex slaves? Of course not!
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Old 07-01-2016, 09:57 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Continuum,

I am neither pulling a fast one nor giving you any bul*s**t because of your handicap. I am trying to make you understand the difference between all slaves (men and women), prisoners of war, and malakat ayman. Also, sex outside marriage is not allowed in Islam.

Your friend mahasn sawresho is giving a load of bull when he says that malakat is concubine and slave. He also does not understand that a wife of the prophet or a Muslim married woman could also have 'malakat ayman' (33:55).

33:55 is about malakat ayman of Muhammad's wives.

[33.55] There is no blame on them in respect of their fathers, nor their brothers, nor their brothers' sons, nor their sisters' sons nor their own women, nor of what their right hands possess (malakat ayman); and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is a witness of all things.

Could a wife of Muhammad or a married Muslim woman keep concubines or sex slaves? Of course not!
In the context of the Quran it is not difficult for me or any average person to understand what the metaphorical 'right hand possess' in whatever language in general is supposed to mean.

"malakat ayman" in relation to Muhammad, Muhammad wives or any Muslims meant and refer to 'persons' who are rightly owned and within their 'control' [traditional and cultural rules]. As such "ma malakat ayman" or 'ma malakat aymanuhum' refer to slaves in the conventional and general sense.

33:55 refer to slaves of Muhammad's wives because of the context but essentially it refer to slaves within the household of Muhammand and Muhammmad would actually be the rightful owners of these slaves not the wives.

Therefore 'ma malakat aymanuhum' in 4:24 refers to slaves [whatever the type or accepted source] and Muslims are allowed to have sex with slaves without marriage.

Quote:
Your friend mahasn sawresho is giving a load of bull when he says that malakat is concubine and slave. He also does not understand that a wife of the prophet or a Muslim married woman could also have 'malakat ayman' (33:55).
I am sure 'ma malakat aymanuhum' refers to slaves which are 'rightly owned' in accordance to conventional rules, etc.

I am not too sure whether 'ma malakat aymanuhum' refers to concubine in the general sense or not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concubinage
However if a concubine is 'ma malakat aymanuhum' i.e. rightly owned who is within the total control of the male Muslims then she will belong to the category that falls within 'what your right hand possessed'.

If a concubine is merely a mistress or female merely available for sex on the side, i.e. she is free to have sex with others and not within the total control of the male person, then she cannot be term as 'what your right hand possessed' or 'ma malakat aymanuhum.'

The Quran do not mention 'concubine' specifically, but if a female is within the total control of the male [within accepted conventional rules of Islam] then she is termed as 'what your right hand possess.'
Note the same of verses with malakat and 'ma malakat aymanuhum' I provided above where one can infer the what it is supposed to mean within the various contexts.

Therefore the label, i.e. slave, concubine, mistress, maid, servant and the likes are not critical but what is critical is the elements of 'total control' the Muslim has over the other person [owned] within conventional and Quranic rules. Having 'total control' meant 'rightly owned' in the conventional and Quranic sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho
This is another source
ملك اليمين هو مصطلح في القرآن يشير إلى العبيد والجواري. of the right is the term used in the Koran refers to slaves and concubines.
Khalif, do you dispute the above claim from wiki [Arabic]?

I believe the concept of concubinage is mentioned in the Ahadith [outside your scope].

Last edited by Continuum; 07-01-2016 at 10:26 PM..
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Old 07-01-2016, 10:02 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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[quote=mahasn sawresho;44607547]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
RE your,
ملكة of the right means concubines and slaves

I'll be interested if you are correct.
Do you have any reference to support the above.
Can we trace ملكة to a dictionary to show that it meant concubines or slaves?

btw, 4:24 mentioned أَيْمَانُكُمْ as right which is different from your right ملكة.

If you are referring to the right الْيَمِينِ as in 74:39
The difficulty of translator

Allow me to offer you a page
Red line is intended

  1. مَلَك: ( اسم )
    الجمع : ملائك ، و ملائكة
    المَلَك : واحد الملائكة أَصْله مَأْلك ، من الأَلوكة ، ثم تصرفوا في لفظه لتخفيفه ، فقالوا : مَلْأَكٌ ، ثم نقلوا حركة الهمزة إلى اللام وحذفوا الهمزة ، قالوا مَلَك ،
    مَلَك الموت : مَلَك مُوكَّل من قِبَل الله تعالى بقبض أرواح العباد ، واسمه عِزْرَائِيلُ
    اِمْرَأَةٌ مَلَكٌ : طَاهِرَةٌ
    مَا لَهُ مَلَكٌ : لاَ يَمْلِكُ شَيْئاً
  2. مَلِك: ( اسم )
    الجمع : أَمْلاكٌ ، و مُلوك
    المَلِكُ :: صفة مشبَّهة تدلّ على الثبوت من ملَكَ : صاحب الأمر والسّلطة على أمّة أو بلاد ، شخص يحكم أو يتولّى الملك في منطقة بحكم الوراثة ولمدى الحياة ،
    جَلاَلَةُ الْمَلِكِ : صَاحِبُ الأَمْرِ والسُّلْطَةِ عَلَى بِلاَدٍ تَخْضَعُ لَهُ مَلِكَةُ سَبَإٍ
    مَلِكَةُ الْجَمَالِ : مَنْ تُخْتارُ فِي مُبَارَاةٍ دَوْلِيَّةٍ مِنْ بَيْنِ العَدِيدِ مِنَ النِّسَاءِ وَيُنْظَرُ إِلَيْهَا على أَنَّها أَجْمَلُ امْرَأَةٍ
    مَلِكَةُ النَّحْلِ : يَعْسُوبُهَا
  3. مَلك: ( اسم )
    الجمع : مُلُوكٌ
    المَلْكُ : المَلِكُ
    المَلْكُ : ما ملكت اليدُ من مال وخَوَل
    المَلْكُ : إرادة حُرّةُ
    مصدر ملَكَ
    أعطاني من مَلْكه : ممّا يقدر عليه
    طال مَلْكُه : طال رقُّه
  4. مُلْك: ( اسم )
    مُلْك : مصدر ملَكَ
  5. مُلَّك: ( اسم )
    مُلَّك : جمع مالِك
  6. مُلك: ( اسم )
    الجمع : أَمْلاَكٌ
    مصدر مَلَكَ
    اِلمُلْكُ : ما يُمَلك ويُتصرّف فيه
    أَرْضٌ فِي مُلْكِهِ : مَمْلُوكَةٌ لَهُ ، يَمْلِكُهَا ، يَتَصَرَّفُ فِيهَا عَقَارٌ فِي مُلْكِهِ
    لَهُ مُلْكٌ تَلِيدٌ : عَظَمَةٌ ، سُلْطَانٌ
    المُلك : اسم سورة من سور القرآن الكريم ، وهي السُّورة رقم 67 في ترتيب المصحف ، مكِّيَّة ، عدد آياتها ثلاثون آية
  7. مِلك: ( اسم )
    الجمع : أملاك
    مصدر ملَكَ
    شيء مملوك يمكن لصاحبه أن يتصرّف فيه عنده أملاك واسعة ،
    أملاك الدولة : ما تملكه الدولةُ من أبنية وعقارات ،
    أملاك الشَّخص : مقتنياته كلّها ، التي تقدم لرفع الديون عند الإفلاس
    المِلْك الثابت : العقار ، الأرض وما عليها من موارد أو أبنية ،
    صاحب المِلك : المالك ، المقتنِي ،
    مِلْكي : لي ، خاصّتي
  8. ملَكَ: ( فعل )
    ملَكَ يملُك ويَملِك ، مُلْكًا ، فهو مالكٌ والجمع : مَلَكَ مُلّكٌ ، ومُلاَّك ، والمفعول مَمْلوك
    ملَك الشَّيءَ : استولى عليه وكان في قدرته أن يتصرّف فيه بما يريد ، تمكّن منه ملَك ضَيْعة ،
    مَلَكَ عَلَى القَوْمِ : اِسْتَوْلَى عَلَيْهِمْ
    ملك غرائزَه : سيطر وتغلّب عليها ، كبتَها ،
    ملَك نفسَه / ملك زِمامَ نفسه : تحكَّم فيها ، قدر على حبسها
    ملَك العجينَ : شدّده وقوّاه ، أنعم عجنَه وأجاده
    مَلَكَ عَلَيْهِ حُبُّهَا عَاطِفَتَهُ : شَغَلَهُ ، أَثَّرَ فِيهِ ، اِسْتَوْلَى عَلَيْهِ
    لاَ أَمْلِكُ مِنَ الأَمْرِ شَيْئاً : لاَ قُدْرَةَ لِي عَلَى أَنْ أَفْعَلَ شَيْئاً
    مَلَكَ الرَّجُلُ حَقَّ الشَّفَاعَةِ : جَازَ لَهُ أَنْ يَشْفَعَ
    مَلَكَ الخِشْفُ أُمُّه : قَوِيَ وقَدَرَ أَن يتبعها
  9. ملَّكَ: ( فعل )
    ملَّكَ يملِّك ، تَمليكًا ، فهو مُمَلِّك ، والمفعول مُملَّك
    ملَّكهُ أرضًا / ملَّكه على أرضٍ : أملكه إيَّاها ، جعلها ملكًا له
    ملَّك القومُ الشّخصَ عليهم : أملكوه ، صيّروه ملكًا عليهم يأمرهم وينهاهم ويطيعوه ، ويتصرّف في أمورهم
    ملَّك فلانًا أمرَه : أملكه ، خلاّه وشأنه ، جعله يتصرّف كيفما يشاء
    مَلَّك النَّبْعَةَ : صَلَّبَها ويَبَّسها في الشمس
    مَلَّكَهُ ابْنَتَهُ : زَوَّجَهُ إِيَّاهَا
  10. يَمين: ( اسم )
    الجمع : أَيْمُنٌ ، و أَيْمَانٌ ، و أَيامِنُ
    اليَمِينُ : ضِدّ اليسار ، للجهة والجارحة
    اليَمِينُ : القَسَم ، الَبَيِّنَةُ عَلَى مَنِ ادَّعَى وَالْيَمِينُ عَلَى مَنْ أَنْكَرَ [ حديث ]
    اليَمِينُ : البركةُ
    هو عندنا باليمين : بالمنزلة الحسنة
    يمين الله : أُقْسِم بالله
    اليَمين الغَموس : ( الفقه ) يمين كاذبة تغمس صاحبَها في النّار لأنّه يحلف وهو يعلم أنّه كاذب
    اليَمين اللَّغْو : ( الفقه ) ما يحلف عليه الشَّخص ظانًّا أنّه كذا وهو بخلافه ، أو ما ورد على اللِّسان بغير قصد
    اليَمين القَضائيَّة : ( القانون ) اليَمين التي تتمّ أمام القضاء ، وهي نوعان : حاسمة وهي التي يوجِّهها خصم إلى خصمه ليحسم بها النِّزاع ، ومتمِّمة وهي التي توجِّهها المحكمة من تلقاء نفسها إلى أحد الخصوم
    يمين الأمانة : ( القانون ) اليَمين التي كان القاضي يلي تحليفها المدَّعي أو المدَّعى عليه كلّما استشعر أنّ واحدًا منهما يفعل أو يهمل شيئًا غدرًا
    يمين المبرَّة : ( القانون ) اليَمين التي كان يحلفها الخصمان تلو انتصاب الخصومة ، أي أنّهما أقاماها اعتقادًا بصدقها ويواصلانها بلا خيانة
    اليَمين الدُّستوريَّة : ( القانون ) القسم الذي يتعهّد فيه رئيس الجمهوريّة قُبَيْل تسلُّمه الحكم بالمحافظة على الدستور
    ذات اليَمين : جهة اليمين ،
    يمينًا وشمالاً : إلى اليمين وإلى اليسار
    أصْحاب اليَمين : أهل الجنّة ،
    ما ملكت يمينه : ممتلكاته ،
    مِلْك اليَمين : الإماء

    أحزاب اليَمين : الأحزاب المحافظة وهي التي تميل إلى الاعتدال في الحياة السياسيّة والقضايا العامَّة ويقابلها : الأحزاب اليساريّة
  11. يَمين: ( اسم )
    يَمين : فاعل من يَمُنَ
  12. مالِك: ( اسم )
    الجمع : مالكون و مُلاَّك و مُلَّك
    فاعل مِنْ مَلَكَ
    مالِك : صاحب المِلْك
    مالِك : اسم خازن النّار
    أبو مالك : كنية الكِبَر والسن
    أبو مالك : كنية الجوع
    مالك الحزين : ( الحيوان ) البلشون ؛ طائر مائيّ كبير الحجم طويل العنق والجناحين والساقين ، يغتذي بالأسماك ، سمّي بذلك لأَنَّه بزعمهم يقعد بقرب المياه والمنابع ، فإِذا نشفت حزِنَ على جفافها وبقى حزينًا ، ويُعرَفُ في مِصرَ بالبَلَشُون
  13. أَلَكَ: ( فعل )
    أَلَكَ يأْلِكُ أَلْكًا ، وأُلُوكًا
    أَلَكَ الفرسُ اللجامَ : عَلَكَهُ وَمَضَغَهُ
    الأَلوك والأَلُوكة والمَأْلُكة والمَأْلُك : الرسالة والمَأْلُكة ، على وزن مَفْعُلة ، سميت أَلوكاً لأَنه يُؤْلَكُ في الفم
    الأَلوكُ : الرَّسولُ
    أَلَكَ فلانًا أَلْكًا : أَبلغه الأَلوك أي الرسالة
    أَلِكْنى إِلى فلان برسالة أَو رسالةً : كن رسولي إِليه ، وهو على عكس الظاهر منه
    المَلَك : واحد الملائكة أَصْله مَأْلك ، من الأَلوكة ، ثم تصرفوا في لفظه لتخفيفه ، فقالوا : مَلْأَكٌ ، ثم نقلوا حركة الهمزة إلى اللام وحذفوا الهمزة
    مَلائكة ومَلائك : جمع مَلأَكٌ
  14. مَلاَئِكَة: ( اسم )
    الملائكة : جمع مَلاَك ومألك و مَلأَك
    مَلَك أَصْله مَأْلك ، من الأَلوكة ، ثم تصرفوا في لفظه لتخفيفه ، فقالوا : مَلْأَك ، ثم نقلوا حركة الهمزة إلى اللام وحذفوا الهمزة ، قالوا مَلَك
  15. مانَ: ( فعل )
    مَانَ مَيْنًا فهو مائنٌ وَمَيَّانٌ
    مَانَ فلانٌ : كَذَبَ
  16. وَمَى: ( فعل )
    وَمَى ( يَمِي ) وَمْيًا
    وَمَى : لغةٌ في وَمَأَ
    وَمَى بالشيءِ : ذَهَبَ به
  17. يَمُنَ: ( فعل )
    يمُنَ على / يمُنَ لـ ييمُن ، يُمْنًا وميمنةً ، ، فهو يامِنٌ ، ويَمينٌ ، وأَيْمَنُ ، والمفعول مَيْمُون عليه
    يمُن على آله / يمُن لآله : يمَن عليهم ، كان مُباركًا عليهم
The مِلْك of right:
It is owned slaves, and the right proportion to the metaphorical hand to signify what is under his control and his hand.
---------------------------------------------------------


This is the position of Muslim Scholars
However, the wives or proprietary) What is the inter proprietary in our time, and his rule. Thank you
Answer

Praise be to God, prayer and peace be upon the Messenger of Allah and his family and companions either:

The right word in the verse as stated in the Qur'an thus: (only on their spouses or possess their oaths, they are not to blame) [Believers: 6], [Ascent: 30].
And the ملكة of right: those who are slaves Almmlokon their own slaves, male or female.
What is meant by saying (or possess their oaths): Women of the slave, who are slaves, as it is entitled to Malleken Atohn that is not a marriage contract, no witnesses, no dowry, they are age mates, if Aguen beefy (concubines) Collection: confidential.
Almost slavery came to an end in our time, is no longer there slaves and concubines for reasons unknown, this does not mean revocation provisions slavery if you find its causes, like Jihad between Muslims and infidels, the non-Muslim women warriors slaves apply to them the provisions of slavery, and the king of the right, but nullified the people of the land laws . Unless there are legitimate reasons for this, the basic principle is that people are free.
Ibn Qudaamah in the singer said: the origin of humans freedom, the Almighty God created Adam and his descendants are free, but opposed to slavery, if he did not know that the bidder, he may originally sentenced.
The owner of the opening of the Almighty: freedom and the right of God, no one is able to neutralize except by Shara, it may not be revoked this right, and it may not be enslaved free, though pleased with it. God knows.----------------------
This is another source
ملك اليمين هو مصطلح في القرآن يشير إلى العبيد والجواري. of the right is the term used in the Koran refers to slaves and concubines.

N women originally -ame- any Maids Mmilokat Wilson silks, Just buy them to replace him Mxthn after Astbre womb Lakedh


They are slaves to those who Almmlokon their own slaves, male or female. What is meant by saying Ra bracket.png only to their spouses or what possessed their faith, they are not to blame Aya-6.png La bracket.png [1] of the slave women, who are slaves, as it is entitled to Malleken Atohn that is not a marriage contract, no witnesses, no dowry , they are age mates, if Aguen beefy (concubines) collection: confidential.

ملك of the right in the Qur'an and the Hadith

surat -al-momnon

surtat -al-ahzab-50-52-surat -al-nesae -surat al-nor

---------------------


This is the Koran
But Muslims today is trying to mislead
After Gervoa that the world rejects these teachings
Through deception and camouflage
This is what you do discussant in this forum
It rejects the interpretation of the scholars of the Muslim people and not hypocrites who attack the Book of Allah and twist mandates
I get the general idea from your above but I am not able to understand your point specifically in English.

Perhaps you should discuss with Khalif and Woodrow fully in Arabic, then I can get the translations from them with reference to what you are trying to convey.
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Old 07-01-2016, 10:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
In
Quote:
the context of the Quran it is not difficult for me or any average person to understand what the metaphorical 'right hand possess' in whatever language in general is supposed to mean.

"malakat ayman" in relation to Muhammad, Muhammad wives or any Muslims meant and refer to 'persons' who are rightly owned and within their 'control' [traditional and cultural rules]. As such "ma malakat ayman" or 'ma malakat aymanuhum' refer to slaves in the conventional and general sense.

33:55 refer to slaves of Muhammad's wives because of the context but essentially it refer to slaves within the household of Muhammand and Muhammmad would actually be the rightful owners of these slaves not the wives.

Therefore 'ma malakat aymanuhum' in 4:24 refers to slaves [whatever the type or accepted source] and Muslims are allowed to have sex with slaves without marriage.
That's right

You understand that very well
Thank you
I am sure 'ma malakat aymanuhum' refers to slaves which are 'rightly owned' in accordance to conventional rules, etc.

Quote:
I am not too sure whether 'ma malakat aymanuhum' refers to concubine in the general sense or not.
However if a concubine is 'ma malakat aymanuhum' i.e. rightly owned who is within the total control of the male Muslims then she will belong to the category that falls within 'what your right hand possessed'.
Your attitude is true

Quote:
If a concubine is merely a mistress or female merely available for sex on the side, i.e. she is free to have sex with others and not within the total control of the male person, then she cannot be term as 'what your right hand possessed' or 'ma malakat aymanuhum.'
she is total control of the male person



Quote:
The Quran do not mention 'concubine' specifically,
Only the owner has the right to have sex with her
He has to act out whatever he wants
But it's not because the concubine mistress must be from the Liberal
While are slaves
but if a female is within the total control of the male [within accepted conventional rules of Islam] then she is termed as 'what your right hand possess.'
Note the same of verses with malakat and 'ma malakat aymanuhum' I provided above where one can infer the what it is supposed to mean within the various contexts.

Quote:
Therefore the label, i.e. slave, concubine, mistress, maid, servant and the likes are not critical but what is critical is the elements of 'total control' the Muslim has over the other person [owned] within conventional and Quranic rules. Having 'total control' meant 'rightly owned' in the conventional and Quranic sense.
This is also true
And I very thank you

Quote:
Khalif, do you dispute the above claim from wiki [Arabic]?
Both want to draw attention to you
Because they want to invite you to Islam-style camouflage and deception
They are trying to mislead
And refuse to provide the correct interpretation to you
But you understand Islam, well thank you
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