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Old 06-28-2016, 10:21 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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4:24. And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save [except] those (captives {women}) whom your right hands possess. It is a decree of Allah for you. Lawful unto you are all beyond those mentioned, so that ye seek them with your wealth in honest wedlock, not debauchery. And those of whom ye seek content (by marrying them), give unto them their portions as [dowry] a duty. And there is no sin for you in what ye do by mutual agreement after the duty (hath been done). Lo! Allah is ever Knower, Wise.
There are some Muslims [like Khalif] who believe the first part of 4:24 should be interpreted as male Muslims cannot marry slaves [female] unless [except] they are poor [not rich] and cannot marry normal believing women [4:25]. This is a ridiculous interpretation.

Many are ignorant [blinded] of human nature that the topic "sex" is naturally embedded with the topic of marriage even though it is not explicit.
The sex drive is the strongest element that is active in the consideration of marriage.
The topic of marriage is more about making sex morally acceptable although sex is not explicitly talked about during the process of marriage.

In the modern era sex before marriage is common, but in the olden days [in general] the most likely thoughts that are likely to occupy the young man's mind in anticipation of marriage is sex, sex and sex because this is a natural instinct manifesting in their psyche.

Because the element of sex in humans is so strong [implicitly] and significant [implicitly] 4:24 make the exception for sex-without-marriage permissible with slaves [cheap and low class humans] especially for those with high sex drives and sex-starved soldiers.

The topic of marriage is generally complemented by the topic of sex [within or outside marriage], it is most appropriate for 4:24 [first part] to mean;

"4:24 ... and all married women ([i.e. sex-outside-marriage] are forbidden unto you) save [except] those (captives {women}) whom your right hands possess."

The above normal interpretation is accepted by the majority of the 1.5 billion Muslims, who are guided by their Madhabs, clergy, etc..
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Old 06-28-2016, 11:23 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 662,085 times
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[quote=Continuum;44582494]
Quote:
4:24. And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save [except] those (captives {women}) whom your right hands possess. It is a decree of Allah for you. Lawful unto you are all beyond those mentioned, so that ye seek them with your wealth in honest wedlock, not debauchery. And those of whom ye seek content (by marrying them), give unto them their portions as [dowry] a duty. And there is no sin for you in what ye do by mutual agreement after the duty (hath been done). Lo! Allah is ever Knower, Wise.
your woman's Chaste Except
What your hand proprietary This is the book of Allah be upon you
And lawful to you beyond that. That is not immune may seek your wealth Msavhan

So what do women enjoyed the Vatohn wages ordinance does not stand with what you Tradeetm done after the obligatory If God is Knower, the Wise

There is a problem

So what do women enjoyed them get him (Vatohn) wages ordinance فَمَا اسْتَمْتَعْتُمْ بِهِ مِنْهُنَّ فَآَتُوهُنَّ أُجُورَهُنَّ فَرِيضَةً

This verse is any pleasure in sex
And translation have not true
For the word
اسْتَمْتَعْتُمْ=
enjoyed or
pleasure in sex

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Old 06-29-2016, 02:28 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,038,942 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
4:24. And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save [except] those (captives {women}) whom your right hands possess. It is a decree of Allah for you. Lawful unto you are all beyond those mentioned, so that ye seek them with your wealth in honest wedlock, not debauchery. And those of whom ye seek content (by marrying them), give unto them their portions as [dowry] a duty. And there is no sin for you in what ye do by mutual agreement after the duty (hath been done). Lo! Allah is ever Knower, Wise.
There are some Muslims [like Khalif] who believe the first part of 4:24 should be interpreted as male Muslims cannot marry slaves [female] unless [except] they are poor [not rich] and cannot marry normal believing women [4:25]. This is a ridiculous interpretation.

Many are ignorant [blinded] of human nature that the topic "sex" is naturally embedded with the topic of marriage even though it is not explicit.
The sex drive is the strongest element that is active in the consideration of marriage.
The topic of marriage is more about making sex morally acceptable although sex is not explicitly talked about during the process of marriage.

In the modern era sex before marriage is common, but in the olden days [in general] the most likely thoughts that are likely to occupy the young man's mind in anticipation of marriage is sex, sex and sex because this is a natural instinct manifesting in their psyche.

Because the element of sex in humans is so strong [implicitly] and significant [implicitly] 4:24 make the exception for sex-without-marriage permissible with slaves [cheap and low class humans] especially for those with high sex drives and sex-starved soldiers.

The topic of marriage is generally complemented by the topic of sex [within or outside marriage], it is most appropriate for 4:24 [first part] to mean;

"4:24 ... and all married women ([i.e. sex-outside-marriage] are forbidden unto you) save [except] those (captives {women}) whom your right hands possess."

The above normal interpretation is accepted by the majority of the 1.5 billion Muslims, who are guided by their Madhabs, clergy, etc..
This is what is stated in the Qur'an:

[4.22-25] And marry not woman whom your fathers married, except what has already passed; this surely is indecent and hateful, and it is an evil way. Forbidden to you are your mothers and your daughters and your sisters and your paternal aunts and your maternal aunts and brothers' daughters and sisters' daughters and your mothers that have suckled you and your foster-sisters and mothers of your wives and your step-daughters who are in your guardianship, (born) of your wives to whom you have gone in, but if you have not gone in to them, there is no blame on you (in marrying them), and the wives of your sons who are of your own loins and that you should have two sisters together (in marriage), except what has already passed; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. And all married women except those whom your right hands possess (this is) Allah's ordinance to you, and lawful for you are besides those, provided that you seek with your property, taking in marriage not committing fornication. Then as to those whom you profit by, give them their dowries as appointed; and there is no blame on you about what you mutually agree after what is appointed; surely Allah is Knowing, Wise. And whoever among you has not within his power ampleness of means to marry free believing women, then (he may marry) of those whom your right hands possess from among your believing maidens; and Allah knows best your faith: you are (sprung) the one from the other; so marry them with the permission of their masters, and give them their dowries justly, they being chaste, not fornicating, nor receiving paramours; and when they are taken in marriage, then if they are guilty of indecency, they shall suffer half the punishment which is (inflicted) upon free women. This is for him among you who fears falling into evil; and that you abstain is better for you, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

YOU read it like this:

[4.22-25] And do not have sex with the woman whom your fathers had sex with, except what has already passed; this surely is indecent and hateful, and it is an evil way. Forbidden to you is to have sex with your mothers and your daughters and your sisters and your paternal aunts and your maternal aunts and brothers' daughters and sisters' daughters and your mothers that have suckled you and your foster-sisters and mothers of your wives and your step-daughters who are in your guardianship, (born) of your those to whom you have had sex with, but if you have not had sex with them, there is no blame on you (in having sex with them), and the wives of your sons who are of your own loins and that you should have sex with two sisters together, except what has already passed; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. And (forbidden to you is to have sex with) all women who are having sex with another man except those whom your right hands possess (this is) Allah's ordinance to you, and lawful for you to have sex are besides those, provided that you seek with your property, taking them for sex and not committing fornication. Then as to those whom you enjoy sex by, give them their dowries as appointed; and there is no blame on you about what you mutually agree after what is appointed; surely Allah is Knowing, Wise. And whoever among you has not within his power ampleness of means to have sex with free believing women, then (have sex with) of those whom your right hands possess from among your believing maidens; and Allah knows best your faith: you are (sprung) the one from the other; so have sex with them with the permission of their masters, and give them their dowries justly, they being chaste, not fornicating, nor receiving paramours; and when they are being used for sex, then if they are guilty of indecency, they shall suffer half the punishment which is (inflicted) upon free women. This is for him among you who fears falling into evil; and that you abstain is better for you, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
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Old 06-29-2016, 08:01 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 751,951 times
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Certainly sex is addressed:
Quran 4:15
Pickthall
As for those of your women who are guilty of lewdness, call to witness four of you against them. And if they testify (to the truth of the allegation) then confine them to the houses until death take them or (until) Allah appoint for them a way (through new legislation).
Yusuf Ali
If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way.

(This is, BTW, one of the hateful verses in the quran.)

Also, there are VERY STRONG hadiths backing up 4:24 as being about permission to have sex with captives (in front of their captive husbands):

The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: (Sura 4:24) "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." (Abu Dawud 2150, also Muslim 3433)

And either allah is giving permission to rape captive women, or he thinks captive women want to marry and screw the men who just attacked their village, slaughtered or captured their husbands, fathers, sons and brothers and will later sell them or ransom them or enslave them. Seriously???

One Muslim on this forum has said that these captive women do want sex with the men who just slaughtered their fathers, husbands, brothers and sons....much like women get hot for the winning sports team.

And why is Islam even permitting ownership of women? (Right hand possesses???) No man should own women!!

There are other very strong hadiths where Muhammed let his men mass rape women. The men were concerned about ejaculating into the women and making them pregnant and then the men would get lower prices when they ransomed/sold the women. Muhammed said go ahead and ejaculate into them. If allah wants them pregnant. they will be pregnant with or without sperm. (Laughable)

"O Allah's Apostle! We get female captives as our share of booty, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interruptus?" The Prophet said, "Do you really do that? It is better for you not to do it. No soul that which Allah has destined to exist, but will surely come into existence.” (Bukhari 34:432)

"We went out with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter" (Sahih Muslim 3371)

Muslims are always demanding context and one of the important things about the hadiths are to give context to the quran.
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Old 06-29-2016, 08:42 AM
 
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Wages=أُجُورَهُنَّ
It is very unfortunate to be sex for money

And that this legislation be attributed to God


God in Islam waives its sacredness

Order to please the wishes of Muslim fighters
And forgave them having sex in this dirty picture

For this reason
The question remains
Was Islam is different from pagan religions
؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟
The legalization of sexual pleasure for believers ؟؟؟؟؟؟؟
Omar Ibn Khattab seriousness of this verse have felt
He announced to stop working out
Is Omar Ibn Khattab was the smartest of God
The logical consequence
The Quran is the words written by humans
The facility to fighters
Spoils, women and sex

This call to all Muslims
I invite you to pause conscience
self-analysis, self-examination, soul-searching, introversion, self-observation
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Old 06-29-2016, 08:52 AM
 
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The Americans came to Iraq
Invert words
Muslims went to America
Compare the rules of war in Islam
And between the rules of modern warfare
And you will know the difference
If the US military believes the legalization of women and spoils
For this reason
The Islamic armies from the time of Muhammad have divine authorization
Booty and women
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Old 06-29-2016, 09:05 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 662,085 times
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And two sisters had gathered except what has already if God is Oft --from surat -al nesssaae -23-

Third Caliphs, and one of the ten promised Paradise, and the former to Islam. The lights nicknamed because he married two of the daughters of the Prophet of Islam, Muhammad, where he married a paper and then after her death he married Umm Kulthum

This marriage in the house of prophecy
؟؟؟؟؟

Where was God
؟؟؟؟؟؟
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Old 06-29-2016, 09:52 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 751,951 times
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I wonder if all those beautiful young virgins in paradise will be happy to have sex with the ugly, smelly terrorists. Or the devout old and filthy muslim curmudgeons. Maybe allah messes with their brains?
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Old 06-29-2016, 12:07 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 662,085 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
I wonder if all those beautiful young virgins in paradise will be happy to have sex with the ugly, smelly terrorists. Or the devout old and filthy muslim curmudgeons. Maybe allah messes with their brains?
Notice how will the Koran in the balance of the mind(brains)
That is why Muslims refuse to put the Koran in the balance of the mind(brains)
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Old 06-29-2016, 12:17 PM
 
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[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
This is what is stated in the Qur'an:

[4.22-25] And marry not woman whom your fathers married, except what has already passed; this surely is indecent and hateful, and it is an evil way. Forbidden to you are your mothers and your daughters and your sisters and your paternal aunts and your maternal aunts and brothers' daughters and sisters' daughters and your mothers that have suckled you and your foster-sisters and mothers of your wives and your step-daughters who are in your guardianship, (born) of your wives to whom you have gone in, but if you have not gone in to them, there is no blame on you (in marrying them), and the wives of your sons who are of your own loins and that you should have two sisters together (in marriage), except what has already passed; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. And all married women except those whom your right hands possess (this is) Allah's ordinance to you, and lawful for you are besides those, provided that you seek with your property, taking in marriage not committing fornication. Then as to those whom you profit by, give them their dowries as appointed; and there is no blame on you about what you mutually agree after what is appointed; surely Allah is Knowing, Wise. And whoever among you has not within his power ampleness of means to marry free believing women, then (he may marry) of those whom your right hands possess from among your believing maidens; and Allah knows best your faith: you are (sprung) the one from the other; so marry them with the permission of their masters, and give them their dowries justly, they being chaste, not fornicating, nor receiving paramours; and when they are taken in marriage, then if they are guilty of indecency, they shall suffer half the punishment which is (inflicted) upon free women. This is for him among you who fears falling into evil; and that you abstain is better for you, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
This taboo to Muslims

But

Mohammed balance of his other
Read Al-Ahzab -50
O Prophet! Verily Ohllna you wives who came wages and possessed right hand, which Allah has bestowed on you and daughters of your uncle and daughters Amatk and daughters uncle and daughters Khalatk who have migrated with you and a woman locked that devote herself to the Prophet, the Prophet wanted to Istnkhaa pure you without the faithful have learned what we imposed on them in their spouses and possess their oaths lest you be critical of Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful
Is God's double standards
And write them to you in Arabic also
على راسو ريشة
)
This popular sayings in Syria
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