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Old 07-02-2016, 09:35 PM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,039,481 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The most effective proof is to trace the historical of the grave to proper evidence that it belonged to Prophet Muhammad.
The earliest mentioned of the Green Dome is 1279 AD.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Dome

This grave could have been a grave of some one together with a group of people, and Muslims out of zeal associate it with Prophet Muhammad of the Quran.
The green Dome is not the grave. Grave is inside the mosque building. History of the mosque, the grave and the visits is well known due to its continuation for over 1400 years.

There can be no other better solid proof.

And we can't take you inside of the mosque; it is open only for Muslims and not for Islam haters or doubters.
The place is irrelevant to them.
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Old 07-02-2016, 09:38 PM
 
4,419 posts, read 1,647,307 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclarksn9 View Post
I am reading up on the origins of Islam. Do any of you have any reading material that provides historical corroboration by neutral observers or enemies of the Prophet Muhammad that can place him geographically, and by date. Basically verify him as as a real historical person and not mythical
Read the work of Michael H. Hart.
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Old 07-02-2016, 11:04 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 752,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Read the work of Michael H. Hart.
Be aware that Michael H Hart is a white separatist and very racist.

Hart organized a conference held in Baltimore in 2009 with the title, Preserving Western Civilization. It was billed as addressing the need to defend "America's Judeo-Christian heritage and European identity" from immigrants, Muslims, and African Americans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_H._Hart

Muslims love him as a source because he wrote a book called " The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History". Muhammed topped the list so Muslims immediately and dishonestly renamed the book to " The 100: A Ranking of the GREATEST Persons in History".

Anyways, evil can be very influential.
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Old 07-03-2016, 01:12 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,585,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
The green Dome is not the grave. Grave is inside the mosque building. History of the mosque, the grave and the visits is well known due to its continuation for over 1400 years.

There can be no other better solid proof.
Yes I know the grave is inside the mosque.
As I had claimed a presence of a grave at present do not proof it belong to the Prophet Muhammad of the Quran who died 1400 years ago.

Quote:
And we can't take you inside of the mosque; it is open only for Muslims and not for Islam haters or doubters.
The place is irrelevant to them.
That's is due to the arrogance with Muslims who are influenced by the false arrogance conveyed by the Quran which is from a non-existent entity.
Such arrogance is merely due to low-self esteem and the hunger for the need to be in control of others.
Such exclusiveness is due to very selfish interests and inferior psychology.

In the existence of such exclusiveness, in any case not many non-Muslims would be very bothered and craved to visit such a tomb.


Wishing you and other Muslims, re Eid al-Fitr
Warmest Wishes for Eid Mubarak To You and Your Family.

You can reply to my posts but I'll will be taking a break for a few days from this forum to focus on something else.
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Old 07-03-2016, 01:15 AM
 
1,883 posts, read 1,652,645 times
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Michael H. Hart, a Christian American says :
"My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world's most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others,
but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular levels.
Of humble origins, Muhammad founded and promulgated one of the world's great religions, and became an immensely effective political leader"
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Old 07-03-2016, 05:39 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,039,481 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Yes I know the grave is inside the mosque.
As I had claimed a presence of a grave at present do not proof it belong to the Prophet Muhammad of the Quran who died 1400 years ago.
Visits to the grave without any break since the day he died is proof enough for Muslims. Muslims wouldn't care less if it is not a proof to the unbelievers.

Quote:
That's is due to the arrogance with Muslims who are influenced by the false arrogance conveyed by the Quran which is from a non-existent entity.
Not at all! The reason to keep the unbelievers out lies somewhere else but you did not understand even after reading the Qur'an 50+ times.

Quote:
Such arrogance is merely due to low-self esteem and the hunger for the need to be in control of others.
Keeping them out is not controlling them.

Quote:
Such exclusiveness is due to very selfish interests and inferior psychology.
You need visa from Saudis to go there. I can't get visa to some countries. It does not mean that I am being controlled by these countries or that it is due to their inferior psychology. The real reason is stated in the Qur'an. Unbelievers had refused to let the believers go into the Grand Masjid. Banning the unbelievers was in response to their action against the believers. As you sow so shall you reap.

[8:34] What (plea) have they that Allah should not punish them, when they debar (His servants) from the Inviolable Place of Worship, though they are not its fitting guardians. Its fitting guardians are those only who keep their duty to Allah. But most of them know not.

[9:28] O ye who believe! The idolaters only are unclean. So let them not come near the Inviolable Place of Worship after this their year. If ye fear poverty Allah shall preserve you of His bounty if He will. Lo! Allah is Knower, Wise.

Quote:
In the existence of such exclusiveness, in any case not many non-Muslims would be very bothered and craved to visit such a tomb.
That's why there has been peace in Makkah and Madina ever since then.

Quote:
Wishing you and other Muslims, re Eid al-Fitr
Warmest Wishes for Eid Mubarak To You and Your Family.
Thank you for your kindness. Our Eid is on Wednesday. I won't be visiting this forum on Tuesday and Wednesday.

Quote:
You can reply to my posts but I'll will be taking a break for a few days from this forum to focus on something else.
Best wishes for whatever you are going to focus on during these days.
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Old 07-03-2016, 07:56 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 752,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller View Post
Michael H. Hart, a Christian American says :
"My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world's most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others,
but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular levels.
Of humble origins, Muhammad founded and promulgated one of the world's great religions, and became an immensely effective political leader"
A christian american?? LOL

He is an atheist. He was a Jew.

Look at what Muhammed accomplished! MILLIONS slaughtered in his name. Look at all the followers! Who else is on his list? Hitler. Mao. Stalin. Many of the most evil men to ever walk this earth!

"Since there are roughly twice as many Christians as Moslems in the world, it may initially seem strange that Muhammad has been ranked higher than Jesus. There are two principal reasons for that decision. First, Muhammad played a far more important role in the development of Islam than Jesus did in the development of Christianity. Although Jesus was responsible for the main ethical and moral precepts of Christianity (insofar as these differed from Judaism), St. Paul was the main developer of Christian theology, its principal proselytizer, and the author of a large portion of the New Testament. Muhammad, however, was responsible for both the theology of Islam and its main ethical and moral principles. In addition, he played the key role in proselytizing the new faith, and in establishing the religious practices of Islam. Moreover, he is the author of the Moslem holy scriptures, the Koran, a collection of certain of Muhammad’s insights that he believed had been directly revealed to him by Allah. Most of these utterances were copied more or less faithfully during Muhammad’s lifetime and were collected together in authoritative form not long after his death. The Koran therefore, closely represents Muhammad’s ideas and teachings and to a considerable extent his exact words "– Michael H. Hart – The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History – Citadel Publishing, 2000, ISBN 9780806513508
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Old 07-03-2016, 08:37 AM
 
10,540 posts, read 15,612,109 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclarksn9 View Post
Just a little info on me. I don't believe Jesus, Moses, Noah, Abraham were historical figures so I don't want it to come across like I am attacking muslims. I have just really started researching it for myself after quite a few years of reading up on the "historical" Jesus. That is why I asked.
Unfortunately, by presuming non-existence of patriarchs and Muhammad, you automatically attack both, actually, three Abrahamic religions, as they are all based on those figures. Imagine a religion being a spine - you have well aligned set of vertebrae, each with its own purpose. You remove any 3 or 4 adjacent ones and entire structure collapses.
Willingly or not, you do attack those religions.
Maybe you should dedicated MUCH MORE time to research, dozens of years it usually takes PER RELIGION, before jumping to any conclusions?

2. Hae Dada Bhagwan! Mane koi pan dharma nu kinchit matra pan praman no dubhai, Na dubhavai, ke dubhava pratye no anumodai, evi param Shakti aapo. Mune koi pan dharma nu, kinchit matra pan praman na dubhai, evi syaad-vaad vani, syaad-vaad vartan ane syaad-vaad mannan karvaani param shakti aapo.
Dearest Dada Bhagwan! Give me the infinite inner strength not to hurt, nor cause someone to hurt, nor provoke anyone to hurt even to the slightest extent, the foundation of any religion.
Give me the infinite strength not to hurt, even to the slightest extent, the foundation of any religion and that I conduct my speech, thoughts and action in a manner that is accepted by all.

Dada Bhagwan is "god within", inner spiritual conscience of any human. Listened to or forgotten and discarded, but present in everyone.
Be well.
Let The Light be with you. Your doubt is good sign - it means you started the search and the journey. Any journey starts with doubt, collection of right knowledge, as you will never be satisfied with the wrong one, and finally revelation of the truth, proper for you.
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Old 07-03-2016, 09:07 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 752,279 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
Unfortunately, by presuming non-existence of patriarchs and Muhammad, you automatically attack both, actually, three Abrahamic religions, as they are all based on those figures. Imagine a religion being a spine - you have well aligned set of vertebrae, each with its own purpose. You remove any 3 or 4 adjacent ones and entire structure collapses.
Willingly or not, you do attack those religions.
Maybe you should dedicated MUCH MORE time to research, dozens of years it usually takes PER RELIGION, before jumping to any conclusions?

2. Hae Dada Bhagwan! Mane koi pan dharma nu kinchit matra pan praman no dubhai, Na dubhavai, ke dubhava pratye no anumodai, evi param Shakti aapo. Mune koi pan dharma nu, kinchit matra pan praman na dubhai, evi syaad-vaad vani, syaad-vaad vartan ane syaad-vaad mannan karvaani param shakti aapo.
Dearest Dada Bhagwan! Give me the infinite inner strength not to hurt, nor cause someone to hurt, nor provoke anyone to hurt even to the slightest extent, the foundation of any religion.
Give me the infinite strength not to hurt, even to the slightest extent, the foundation of any religion and that I conduct my speech, thoughts and action in a manner that is accepted by all.

Dada Bhagwan is "god within", inner spiritual conscience of any human. Listened to or forgotten and discarded, but present in everyone.
Be well.
Let The Light be with you. Your doubt is good sign - it means you started the search and the journey. Any journey starts with doubt, collection of right knowledge, as you will never be satisfied with the wrong one, and finally revelation of the truth, proper for you.
My inner journey taught me this about Islam:

Terrorism:

Quran 3:151 We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve for what they have associated with Allah of which He had not sent down [any] authority. And their refuge will be the Fire, and wretched is the residence of the wrongdoers.

Quran 8:12 Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

Quran 8:60 And prepare against them whatever you are able of power and of steeds of war by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them whom you do not know [but] whom Allah knows. And whatever you spend in the cause of Allah will be fully repaid to you, and you will not be wronged.

Quran 27:87 And on the day when the trumpet shall be blown, then those who are in the heavens and those who are in the earth shall be terrified except such as Allah please, and all shall come to him abased.

Quran 33:26 And those of the people of the Scripture who backed them (the disbelievers) Allah brought them down from their forts and cast terror into their hearts, (so that) a group (of them) you killed, and a group (of them) you made captives.

Quran 34:51 If thou couldst but see when they will quake with terror; but then there will be no escape (for them), and they will be seized from a position (quite) near.

Quran 59:13 Of a truth ye are stronger (than they) because of the terror in their hearts, (sent) by Allah. This is because they are men devoid of understanding.

Torture

Quran 8:50 And if you could see when the angels take away the souls of those who disbelieve (at death), they smite their faces and their backs, (saying): "Taste the punishment of the blazing Fire."

Quran 4:38 Cut off (from the wrist joint) the (right) hand of the thief, male or female, as a recompense for that which they committed, a punishment by way of example from Allah. And Allah is All-Powerful, All-Wise.

Quran 4:56 Those who reject our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire: as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty: for Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.

Quran 79:25 Then Allah took him (away) with the torture of the Hereafter and the First (life).

The Apostle of Allah sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives.
Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: (Sura 4:24) "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." (Abu Dawud 2150, also Muslim 3433) (I think mass rape of women and girls after slaughtering their husbands, fathers and sons is torture, don't you??)

Quran 8:12 Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, "I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip."

Quran (24:2) The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you.

Quran 22:19-22 "These twain (the believers and the disbelievers) are two opponents who contend concerning their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads. Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning."

Muslim (16:4131) - They were caught and brought to him (the Holy Prophet). He commanded about them, and (thus) their hands and feet were cut off and their eyes were gouged and then they were thrown in the sun, until they died.

Ibn Ishaq 764 - After amassing a powerful army, Muhammad sent his forces to take the peaceful farming community of Khaybar by surprise. In the aftermath, he was dissatisfied with the amount of plunder and felt that the town’s treasurer, Kinana, might be holding out on him. He had the man brought to him:
When he [Muhammad] asked him about the rest he refused to produce it, so the apostle gave orders to al-Zubayr bin al-Awwam, “Torture him until you extract what he has.” So he kindled a fire with flint and steel on his chest until he was nearly dead. Then the apostle delivered him to Muhammad bin Maslama and he struck off his head.”

Rape:

The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives.
Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: (Sura 4:24) "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." (Abu Dawud 2150, also Muslim 3433)

Allah seemed to like to watch mass rape.

"O Allah's Apostle! We get female captives as our share of booty, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interruptus?" The Prophet said, "Do you really do that? It is better for you not to do coitus interruptus. A soul that which Allah has destined to exist will surely come into existence.” (Bukhari 34:432)

"We went out with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter" (Sahih Muslim 3371)

Narrated Hisham's father:
Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old. (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236)

Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death). (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64; see also Numbers 65 and 88)

I don't think 4th grade girls want 53 year old men to have sex with them. Would you agree?

Slavery

There came a slave and pledged allegiance to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) on migration; he (the Holy Prophet) did not know that he was a slave. Then there came his master and demanded him back, whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Sell him to me. And he bought him for two black slaves, and he did not afterwards take allegiance from anyone until he had asked him whether he was a slave (or a free man) (Sahih Muslim 3901).

The apostle gave Ali a girl called Rayta; and he gave Uthman a girl called Zaynab; and he gave Umar a girl whom Umar gave to his son Abdullah. (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 878) Human party favors!!

“Prophet, We have made lawful to you the wives to whom you have granted dowries and the slave girls whom God has given you as booty.” (Qur’an 33:50)

“Narrated Anas bin Malik: Allah’s Apostle was on a journey and he had a black slave called Anjasha, and he was driving the camels (very fast, and there were women riding on those camels). Allah’s Apostle said, ‘Waihaka (May Allah be merciful to you), O Anjasha! Drive slowly (the camels) with the glass vessels (women)!'” (Bukhari 8.73.182) There is no mention of Muhammad’s freeing Anjasha.

BUKHARI Vol. 3-#765
Narrated Kuraib: the freed slave of Ibn 'Abbas, that Maimuna bint Al-Harith told him that she manumitted a slave-girl without taking the permission of the Prophet. On the day when it was her turn to be with the Prophet, she said, "Do you know, O Allah's Apostle, that I have manumitted my slave-girl?" He said, "Have you really?" She replied in the affirmative. He said, "You would have got more reward if you had given her (i.e. the slave-girl) to one of your maternal uncles."

Hate

Quran 2:65 And ye know of those of you who broke the Sabbath, how We said unto them: Be ye apes, despised and hated!

Quran 7:166 Therefore when they revoltingly persisted in what they had been forbidden, We said to them: Be (as) apes, despised and hated.

Quran 28:42 in this world We made a curse to follow them and on the Day of Judgment they will be among the loathed (and despised).

Qur’an 8:55 Surely the vilest of animals in Allah’s sight are those who disbelieve.

Of course this is just a sample.
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Old 07-03-2016, 10:23 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,039,481 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Look at what Muhammed accomplished! MILLIONS slaughtered in his name. Look at all the followers!
Look at ALL THE FOLLOWERS?
You must be blind if you you are look at ALL THE FOLLOWERS.
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