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Old 07-29-2016, 11:12 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 661,256 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
That is just one factor. There is another, the main, factor.

In reality, if we go into the deeper details, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob (Israel) and his children were not Jews but Muslims.They were of course not Muhammadans but Muslims. Muslims are those who submit to Allah. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph and Moses had all submitted to Allah. The holy land was given to a group of people who were expected to submit to Allah.

There is absolutely no proof anywhere, even in the OT, that the holy land was given to "Jews" simply because they were "Jews". The holy land was given to a group of people for submitting to Allah. Submission to Allah (by obeying Him) was the requirement and not just being "Jews" (a name given to them probably by the Romans). The proof for that is actually in the OT.

No adult Jew, who had left Egypt with Moses, was allowed by Allah to reach the Holy Land because they did not submit to Allah during those 40 years in the desert. Had the holy land been given to Jews for being Jews, none of those coming from Egypt would have been prevented from entering the Holy Land.

Thus the Children of Israel are reminded in the Qur'an that it was because of their submitting to Allah that they were given the Holy Land and, therefore, they are still required to submit to Allah for His favours promised for such submission.

In other words, the Holy Land was, and still is, for those who submit to Allah. Right now, the only people who are submitting to Allah every day on the Masjid Mount are the Muslims. Jews have never worshiped on that Mount for anywhere near as long as Muslims have. In fact, the Mount was a garbage dump when Muslims got there after the destruction of the second temple. They cleared the garbage, cleaned the place, and made it fit for prostrating there in worship to Allah again. They then even let the Jews back in Jerusalem after the Christians had expelled them from there previously.
Jews in history
The Jews live in Palestine almost three thousand years ago
History records that the Jews were subjected to attacks from the Chaldeans and Assyrians
History said that the Jews were slaves in the land of Mesopotamia
Even the Persians helped them to regain their kingdom
Because of the Roman occupation of Palestine to the Jews they were trying to get rid of the Roman occupation
When Jesus came Palestine was a Roman colony
It occurred Jewish Maccabean revolt
And after the Jews were expelled from Palestine and the destruction of the Temple of Solomon
Romans at the time were pagans, not Christians
This continued to be the Islamic occupation came to Palestine
But Islam was more virulent than the Romans in the persecution of the Jews
After two thousand years of the birth of Christ enables Jews to return to their land stolen
I guess that this is evidence that this verse speaks of the continuing covenant between God and his people
Why Muslims do not respect this fact recognize the rights of this people
Which was written in the Koran
The argument that the Jews are Muslims, this distortion has no value
Because he Lucan Jews, Muslims slaughtered Why Mohammed
For this reason note schizophrenia for a Muslim
In the position of God's chosen people and to deny rights
If the Koran from God is the duty of Mohammed that helps them to return to the holy land
And respected
But this proves the contradiction and hatred in the Koran

 
Old 07-30-2016, 08:18 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 751,221 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
That is just one factor. There is another, the main, factor.

In reality, if we go into the deeper details, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob (Israel) and his children were not Jews but Muslims.They were of course not Muhammadans but Muslims. Muslims are those who submit to Allah. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph and Moses had all submitted to Allah. The holy land was given to a group of people who were expected to submit to Allah.

There is absolutely no proof anywhere, even in the OT, that the holy land was given to "Jews" simply because they were "Jews". The holy land was given to a group of people for submitting to Allah. Submission to Allah (by obeying Him) was the requirement and not just being "Jews" (a name given to them probably by the Romans). The proof for that is actually in the OT.

No adult Jew, who had left Egypt with Moses, was allowed by Allah to reach the Holy Land because they did not submit to Allah during those 40 years in the desert. Had the holy land been given to Jews for being Jews, none of those coming from Egypt would have been prevented from entering the Holy Land.

Thus the Children of Israel are reminded in the Qur'an that it was because of their submitting to Allah that they were given the Holy Land and, therefore, they are still required to submit to Allah for His favours promised for such submission.

In other words, the Holy Land was, and still is, for those who submit to Allah. Right now, the only people who are submitting to Allah every day on the Masjid Mount are the Muslims. Jews have never worshiped on that Mount for anywhere near as long as Muslims have. In fact, the Mount was a garbage dump when Muslims got there after the destruction of the second temple. They cleared the garbage, cleaned the place, and made it fit for prostrating there in worship to Allah again. They then even let the Jews back in Jerusalem after the Christians had expelled them from there previously.
Just curious, why do you believe in/use as a source, the old testament? The old testament consists of many books written, compiled, and edited by various authors over a period of centuries about supposed events from the beginning of time!! I mean it has nowhere near the validity of the hadiths, which you refuse to accept!!

"There is no historical evidence outside of the Bible, no mention of Moses outside the Bible, and no independent confirmation that Moses ever existed."

—Dr. Michael D. Coogan, lecturer on the Old Testament at Harvard Divinity School

"The existence of Moses as well as the veracity of the Exodus story is disputed amongst archaeologists and Egyptologists, with experts in the field of biblical criticism citing logical inconsistencies, new archaeological evidence, historical evidence and related origin myths in Canaanite culture." —"Moses," Wikipedia
 
Old 07-30-2016, 10:03 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 661,256 times
Reputation: 204
Yes that's right
Moses, we know from the books of the Jews
The Torah is the main source to Moses

But the Hebrew or Jewish people
It is a historical fact
And I'm talking about the Koran at this point
Why announce the covenant between God and the children of Israel
Muslims say it is the Holy Land
But working on the wrap on the concept of the Holy Land and the Jewish people

Of the duties of Muhammad if he was a messenger from God, as he claims to help Jews in the completion of their deal with God
And that helps them to return to the Holy Land
Because God give them that land in the sacred and divine Agreement

And either say that they violated the agreement or they rebelled
, This is from God, to announce that the agreement ended
But the Bible says it is still valid
Proof return to the Holy Land, despite opposition from Muslims
They've returned to the holy land
With the help of the Europeans and the Americans
And not with the help of Muslims who have betrayed the word of God in the Koran
 
Old 07-30-2016, 10:08 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,037,403 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Just curious, why do you believe in/use as a source, the old testament? The old testament consists of many books written, compiled, and edited by various authors over a period of centuries about supposed events from the beginning of time!! I mean it has nowhere near the validity of the hadiths, which you refuse to accept!!

"There is no historical evidence outside of the Bible, no mention of Moses outside the Bible, and no independent confirmation that Moses ever existed."

—Dr. Michael D. Coogan, lecturer on the Old Testament at Harvard Divinity School

"The existence of Moses as well as the veracity of the Exodus story is disputed amongst archaeologists and Egyptologists, with experts in the field of biblical criticism citing logical inconsistencies, new archaeological evidence, historical evidence and related origin myths in Canaanite culture." —"Moses," Wikipedia
Many of the events and stories in the OT are verified/confirmed by the Qur'an. A lot of stuff in the hadith books has no validity as it is not verified/confirmed by the Qur'an.

As for Moses, if Moses did not exist, the Qur'an does not exist and nor does Islam or even Muhammad.

I am not sure why you are asking me this question about the OT when you too use hadith and the Qur'an as your sources about Muhammad when the existence of Muhammad too is disputed the same as of Moses.

Islamic Theologian Says Prophet Muhammad Likely Never Existed - WSJ

Did Muhammad Exist? [A Book Review]
 
Old 07-30-2016, 10:15 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,037,403 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
Jews in history
The Jews live in Palestine almost three thousand years ago
History expert, do you know who was the first Jew in history and why and how he became a Jew?
 
Old 08-01-2016, 09:57 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 661,256 times
Reputation: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
History expert, do you know who was the first Jew in history and why and how he became a Jew?
Abraham was the first Jew in history
The Jews took up the religion of monotheism
Four thousand years ago
It wants to know the attributes of God must be due to the Torah
The tribes of Jews due to their father Ibrahim
Twelve tribes
These sons of Jacob, which is Israel
Joseph became minister to the Pharaohs because he was smart
In ancient Egypt, and after the time of Moses came
Then he became their leader
And he came out of Egypt with his people to the Promised Land
Any agreement between God and the children of Israel
This is the theme of this verse from the Koran
This is a manual in the history of the Jews
They did not accept God is God
In fact
Islam works boiled fight the God of the Jews
Because the God of Islam is the Baal Assyrian
Assyrians have had the worst enemies of the Jews in the past history
This is the reality of our history transfused
I am in fact belong to the people of the Assyrian
But after the spread of Christianity
we became friends
Because Christ also belongs to the Jews
 
Old 08-01-2016, 11:39 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 751,221 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Many of the events and stories in the OT are verified/confirmed by the Qur'an. A lot of stuff in the hadith books has no validity as it is not verified/confirmed by the Qur'an.

As for Moses, if Moses did not exist, the Qur'an does not exist and nor does Islam or even Muhammad.

I am not sure why you are asking me this question about the OT when you too use hadith and the Qur'an as your sources about Muhammad when the existence of Muhammad too is disputed the same as of Moses.

Islamic Theologian Says Prophet Muhammad Likely Never Existed - WSJ

Did Muhammad Exist? [A Book Review]
Wasn't the OT around and didn't muhammed have access to these stories? Your logic is way off. Because some old book full of garbage says something that does not mean another old book full of garbage that repeats it is proof.

We're not talking about me....I use the hadiths all the time and don't say not to use them. You say never to use them and then you use the OT which is older and even less reliable!

If Moses did not exist Muhammed would have written the quran and left out any reference to Moses.
 
Old 08-01-2016, 12:27 PM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,037,403 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
If Moses did not exist Muhammed would have written the quran and left out any reference to Moses.
That mean Moses did exist.
 
Old 08-01-2016, 01:12 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 751,221 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
That mean Moses did exist.
How's that?
 
Old 08-01-2016, 01:30 PM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,037,403 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
Abraham was the first Jew in history
But History Expert, you haven't answered my question, how did Abraham become a Jew (Yehudi) when neither his father nor his mother was Jewish?

[3.65] O followers of the Book! Why do you dispute about Ibrahim, when the Taurat and the Injeel were not revealed till after him; do you not then understand?

[3.66] Behold! You are they who disputed about that of which you had knowledge; why then do you dispute about that of which you have no knowledge? And Allah knows while you do not know.

[3.67] Ibrahim was not a Jew nor a Christian but he was
(an) upright (man), truly a Musliman, and he was not one of the polytheists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
Because the God of Islam is the Baal Assyrian
You must be out of your mind to say that!
Baal Assyrian is not the God of Islam. Baal was regarded god by your Assyrian forefathers before they linked themselves with the Christians to turn them into Catholics.
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