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Old 07-16-2016, 09:49 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,037,948 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
At present this ~20% is a fact. This is why there are serial killers who cannot control their impulse to kill despite knowing there is the death penalty waiting for them. The most threatening deterrents [dealth penalty, stoning to death, etc.] will not work to stop them and their uncontrollable impulses.

Note my explanation on why the very hardcore [bad wirings] cases cannot be improved by religious [Islam or whatever] or secular controls or threats.

The 80% are born naturally without an active evil tendencies because their impulse control faculty are not faulty. It has nothing to do with Islam or any religion, etc. So there is no reason to give credit to Islam and others.
You cannot argue according to your fancy in case of 80% but then flip over and blame Islam and the Qur'an for the other 20%. That is you using double standard and refuting your own ideas about something to do with Islam and the Qur'an for the 20%.
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Old 07-16-2016, 10:13 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
If you reflect on your own views deeply, you are the one who is wearing blinkers because as a believer you MUST be biased no matter whether it is true or false otherwise your faith will be shaken. In this case your ignoring of reality has heavy consequences on humanity, i.e. the real terrible evils and violence from SOME Islamists that will continue to go on till eternity.
If you reflect on your remarks about human nature at birth, it is you who concede that SOME Humanists born with very weak impulse control (their nature) will continue to go on doing evil till eternity. Thus Islam plays no part in their actions due to their own nature before birth.
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Old 07-16-2016, 10:49 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I agree most of the people who are killed by ISIS are 'Muslims."
Then you agree that it is not killing "some Muslims" but "mostly Muslims". The Qur'an does not say to anyone, kill mostly Muslims.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
But most of them are deemed apostates and hypocrites who are either Shia or other Muslim sects or Muslims who are working with non-Muslim. This is in accordance with the stipulation of Allah that Muslims cannot be friends [awliyaa] or intimate friends with non-Muslims.
You are making this remark in ignorance about what Allah has stipulated regarding Muslims killing Muslims. ISIS are in ignorance the same way, and you support them killing Muslims by justifying their actions. By doing so, you are giving hope to ISIS to carry on killing all Muslim who are kind to non-Muslims. Do you want Muslims to be your friends or not?

[60:8-9] Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice. Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of (your) religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up (others) in your expulsion, that you make friends with them, and whoever makes friends with them, these are the unjust.

Making friends with those who do not wage war on Muslims is not forbidden in the Qur'an but effectively encouraged.

It just goes to show that you are just as ignorant about the Qur'an as ISIS criminals are. Get out of your ignorance about Islam and the Qur'an fast if you want to help stop ISIS killing us ALL (both Muslims and the non-Muslims alike).
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Old 07-16-2016, 05:18 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 661,499 times
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More than 80 people were killed in a terrible way in France
He was killing infidels
It's Tunisian origin
Is it also not scoop the Koran
He is a Muslim
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Old 07-16-2016, 05:26 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 661,499 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Quote:
Then you agree that it is not killing "some Muslims" but "mostly Muslims". The Qur'an does not say to anyone, kill mostly Muslims.

You are making this remark in ignorance about what Allah has stipulated regarding Muslims killing Muslims. ISIS are in ignorance the same way, and you support them killing Muslims by justifying their actions. By doing so, you are giving hope to ISIS to carry on killing all Muslim who are kind to non-Muslims. Do you want Muslims to be your friends or not?
They represent the real Islam
Without frills or embellishment
They are walking in the footsteps of Muhammad the Messenger of mercy
Jews and infidels who killed
Muhammad is the role model
It does not obey the apostle is not a Muslim
Quote:
[60:8-9] Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice. Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of (your) religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up (others) in your expulsion, that you make friends with them, and whoever makes friends with them, these are the unjust.
This verse canceled from the verse fighting

Quote:
Making friends with those who do not wage war on Muslims is not forbidden in the Qur'an but effectively encouraged.

It just goes to show that you are just as ignorant about the Qur'an as ISIS criminals are. Get out of your ignorance about Islam and the Qur'an fast if you want to help stop ISIS killing us ALL (both Muslims and the non-Muslims alike)
.
The killing of Hassan and Hussein
Islamic history
Fight killing
How to understand the Quran
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Old 07-16-2016, 09:36 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,583,450 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
That is a faulty understanding of the human nature!

All have inbuilt impulse control (it is in their inherited potential).

All have choice either to control their Self or be controlled by their Self.

With your faulty understanding, each is born with one or the other as their nature. With my understanding, all are born with potential to do both.

The difference is not in their nature but in the choice they make (how they use their freewill) after being born with the same nature and potential. This is where education comes into play for them to make informed choices to do good or do evil by realizing their already inherited potential. This is why the difference between the two parties is the greater if the difference is greater in their education. This is the difference between a civilized society and an uncivilized society. I have lived in both societies and know that it is not due to their nature at birth but due to one's experience after birth.
You are ignorant of human nature because there is so much evidence in the real world to show that there are many humans who are born with none, very weak, and weak impulse control.

If you insist on your own ignorant one-sided view, show me proofs to support your point.

The basis issue is always the question of Nature versus Nurture.
I don't deny there is the nurture [after birth] factor but there is definitely the nature [before birth] factors.

I have research and read tons of research findings and articles on this subject.
Here is one,

Psychopaths are born not bred, according to a new study
Psychopaths are born not bred, according to a new study - Telegraph

Quote:
Scientists have identified biological brain differences that mark out psychopaths from other people – offering hope of spotting the disorder before it triggers heinous crimes.

Brain scans found a critical connection between two regions of the brain, which control behaviour and aggression, is different in psychopaths which could explain their aggressive behaviour.


Dr Michael Craig, a psychiatrist, said if the link to brain wiring can be proved it could have far-reaching consequences with the prospect of psychopaths being diagnosed and treated with new therapies.


"If replicated by larger studies the significance of these findings cannot be underestimated," he said.


"The suggestion of a clear structural deficit in the brains of psychopaths has profound implications for clinicians, research scientists and the criminal justice system."


Criminal psychopaths, as portrayed in Hollywood films by such characters as Hannibal Lecter, are people with anti-social personalities who lack emotional empathy.

They can commit rape or murder but show no signs of remorse or guilt.

Psychopaths are thought to make up about 15 per cent of the UK prison population and criminals who are psychopaths commit 50 per cent more offences than those who do not have the disorder.

Dr Craig and colleagues at King's College London investigated the brain anatomy of nine psychopaths with convictions that included attempted murder, manslaughter, multiple rape with strangulation and false imprisonment.

None was currently serving a prison sentence and their brains were scanned using a powerful new technique called diffusion tensor magnetic resonance imaging (DT-MRI). The results were then compared with those obtained for normal volunteers of a similar age and IQ.

The researchers found big abnormalities in the 'wiring' of white-matter called the UF (uncinate fasciculus) which connects parts of the brain called the amygdala and the OFC (orbitofrontal cortex) in the psychopaths.

People who had been diagnosed with more extreme psychopathy showed greater degrees of dysfunction in this tract, said the study published in Molecular Psychiatry.

The amygdale is the area associated with emotional responses such as fear and aggression and the OFC is the region which deals with important decision making.

......
Note I have read many 100s of research related materials on the above topics.
How many have you read?
I presume none on your part and you dare to make such bold conclusions based on your own experiences and feelings.

As for the ability to make a moral choice of committing evil or not committing evil, you are WRONG to insist ALL humans has control over their various impulses.

There are so many cases of rapist who volunteer for castrations because they cannot control their impulses to rape.
I have read of many people who admit they cannot control their impulses and these are all recognized as a psychiatric and psychological problems which need medical treatments.
Generally this problem is clearly supported by the large number of smokers, obese people, drug addicts and all sort of addiction.
There is also the problem of obsessive compulsive disorders.

Do you know what is Kleptomaniac:

Quote:
"Kleptomania is an impulse control disorder characterized by the inability to resist impulses to steal objects that are not generally acquired for personal use or monetary gain. The individual concerned describes a compulsive urge to steal. The behaviour is classically accompanied by an increasing sense of tension before, and a palpable sense of relief immediately after and during the act.
http://www.duhaime.org/LawMag/LawArt...er-to-Why.aspx
Kleptomaniac disorder is the most obvious example of lack of impulse control despite one having a will power.

Quote:
In 2001, Ms Winonna Ryder tried to make off with thousands of dollars of clothing and hair accessories. She was 30 at the time of the shoplifting. Her theft had the hallmarks of kleptomania (see video, adjacent): Ryder did not need the items and the theft was extremely awkward: almost a plea for help.
Winnona Ryder is a very famous actress and she earn Million$$ but she had no will power to make a choice not to steal and end up in prison for that uncontrollable theft.


I don't deny the majority has the will power to control many of their impulses [not all] but what is critical is the +/- 20% who are not able to control their impulses.

Therefore within reality and humanity there are problems of the lack of impulse control due to nature [before birth] that lead to the acts of evil and violence.

This is one topic where one can support one's views with proper research findings, so don't embarrass yourself by merely babbling some personal uneducated views.

The CRITICAL point is Allah being all knowing is ignorant of the above reality of the lack of impulse control in many humans Allah created.
IF Allah [aka Muhamad, etc.] is aware of the 20% and hardcore evil prone, then Allah should never have included leading and loaded evil elements that ambiguous and inspired the evil prone to do their duty as a Muslim that result in terrible evils and violence to non-Muslims and others.

On the contrary the wiser religions of the East are aware of this fact of uncontrollable impulse by SOME and that is why they do not include leading evil laden elements in their holy texts at all.

Last edited by Continuum; 07-16-2016 at 09:50 PM..
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Old 07-16-2016, 10:02 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,583,450 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
You cannot argue according to your fancy in case of 80% but then flip over and blame Islam and the Qur'an for the other 20%. That is you using double standard and refuting your own ideas about something to do with Islam and the Qur'an for the 20%.
The point is focused on my hypothesis;

1. DNA wise, ALL human beings has the POTENTIAL to be evil.
2. 20% of ALL Muslims [as with All humans] has active evil tendencies.
3. Up to >55% of verses in the Quran contain evil laden elements of various degrees.
4. The elements in 2 and 3 combined to pose a very very dangerous potential for evil.
5. This potential to evil is manifested when it is triggered by various factors perceived as threats to Islam.

From 2.
6. 80% of ALL Muslims [as with All humans] do not have active evil tendencies.

The 80% and 20% are natural with ALL humans.
I blame the Quran [note in part] because of 3, i.e. the loaded evil laden that triggers the naturally born 20% of evil prone to commit evils and violence. This is glaringly evident with what is going on a present and in the past 1,400 years.

The 20% of evil prone of non-Muslims will commit other secular evils and violence. There may be Muslims who form street gangs and rob, rape and commit secular evils which are not inspired by the Quran. All these must be addressed by humanity but they are off topic here.

From the above, I can not see your accusation that I am using double standard and refuting my own ideas about something to do with Islam and the Qur'an for the 20%.
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Old 07-16-2016, 10:36 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,583,450 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
If you reflect on your remarks about human nature at birth, it is you who concede that SOME Humanists born with very weak impulse control (their nature) will continue to go on doing evil till eternity. Thus Islam plays no part in their actions due to their own nature before birth.
If Islam was not established 1,400 years ago, the 20% of evil prone will continue to commit secular evils and violence due to their inborn active evil tendencies.
These secular evil prone people will be triggered by various evil laden elements from the various medias, movies, writings, ideologies, etc.
We can classify these as secular-based-evils-&-violence.

The problem is 1,400 years ago Islam introduced evil laden elements in the Quran from all powerful god that promised eternal life to Muslims.
These leading evil laden elements from Islam is the additional factor that trigger the 20% of evil prone Muslims who were born with active evil tendencies to commit terrible evils and violence.
We can classify these evil acts as Islamic-inspired-evils-&-violence.

For theoretically sake only [not possible in practice], IF there is no Islam at present and future, there will be no more Islamic-inspired-evils-&-violence. This is because there is no opportunity for any evil prone people [born] to be a Muslim and thus to shout Allah-u-Akbar and influenced by to quote Quranic verses to inspire them to commit terrible evils and violence.

Without Islam and its [SOME] leading evil element, there will still be naturally born evil prone people who will still commit evils and violence naturally but they will be triggered by only secular factors.

The above arguments prove the leading evil elements within the Quran [in part] play a part in influencing and inspiring SOME Muslims who are born with active to commit terrible evils and violence.

Here is an adaption from a very famous saying;
With or without religion [Islam] you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
But for evil prone people and even good people to do evil things, that takes religion [Islam].
It is not only the evil prone people Muslims that commit evils and violence. It is very evident the leading elements in the Quran even influenced and inspired SOME very good people [as known to their family and friends] to turn evil and commit terrible evils and violence. This is undeniable.
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Old 07-17-2016, 01:41 PM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,037,948 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
More than 80 people were killed in a terrible way in France
He was killing infidels
It's Tunisian origin
Is it also not scoop the Koran
He is a Muslim
I am a Muslim. I am not told to kill in this terrible way. Muslims are not only of Tunisian origin but of many origins, including American, British, French, German, Indian, Arabian, African, and Chinese. The guy was more mental than Muslim. I will never do such an evil act of killing innocent people nor would any of my children.
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Old 07-17-2016, 03:39 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 751,510 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
I am a Muslim. I am not told to kill in this terrible way. Muslims are not only of Tunisian origin but of many origins, including American, British, French, German, Indian, Arabian, African, and Chinese. The guy was more mental than Muslim. I will never do such an evil act of killing innocent people nor would any of my children.
I have heard this before....from people who later do terrorist acts. Or are caught supporting terrorism in some way. No Muslim terrorist is an island. His terrorism is a communal activity that takes place within the context of an Islamic manifest destiny.

After September 11, National Geographic interviewed a moderate “Islamic scholar” for his response to the attacks. “No religion would condone this,” he said, “Islam does not approve of this. There is no way that the people who did this could be Muslim, and if they claim to be Muslim, then they have perverted their religion.”

The scholar was Anwar Al-Awlaki, who had ties to the 9/11 hijackers and was an Al Qaeda leader.
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