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Old 07-13-2016, 08:57 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Quote:
Principles in a purely Islamic society such as, say, in designated areas of Makkah and Madina (where there are no non-Muslims)
.Do you think that life is perfect in Mecca
Where women have no rights and will Mslobac
So go to Mecca and you have to live with the tomb of the Prophet and enjoying his sword Maslool

Quote:
All other false ways. It does not mean it will eradicate Christianity and Judaism. The Qur'an does not regard these two religions as false religion.
Repetition teaches Alctar!!!!!!?????

Fight those who believe not in God and the last day to the end of verse -----
The attack on the Jews and provoke feelings of hatred against them
Contradictions Koran and valuable position of Altsary
all of these
And evidence of the fact
I guess you do not provide the truth about Islamic Thought

There is no need to build a church in an "Islamic State" just as there is no need to build a mosque in the Vatican State.

Quote:
No. Not in a mixed (Muslim, Christian and Jewish) State.

They can easily do it but they respect Christians and Jewish rights as long as they live in there peacefully and not wage war on Muslims.
I explained to you the position of Islam churches
Glick and viewed Pact of Umar and document age
Christians were folks Zmmmh a fare worse than the laws of religious and racial discrimination boil over history

Once again, you are wrong about Saudi Arabia and their human rights record. Saudi Arabia does not give a s**t about human rights of anyone else other than Saudis. Even the non-Saudi Muslims have no human rights there. I have experience of being there and you do not have that experience. In there, it is not a matter of Muslim and non-Muslim but a matter of Saudis and non-Saudis.

That is not because of Islam but local problems due to lack of knowledge about Islam in which Christians and Jews are respected as People of the Book. It is out of question that there will be no churches there one day when there are even Hindu temples there. The main point of the Qur'an regarding non-believers must be kept in mind that they must not be dealt with unjustly as long as they do not wage war on Muslims like the Meccan non-believers did 1400 years ago. Otherwise, the guidance is to live with them in peace if they want to live in peace with believers. This is why Christians and Jews have lived with Muslims for centuries in places like North Africa, Spain, and other majority Muslim countries. This is why it was Muslims who had permitted Jews to return to Jerusalem when Christians were keeping them out of Jerusalem.

Wrong understanding!

Islam prevails over other religions in the hearts of the believers. No other religion have a place in my heart but Islam. Therefore, Islam has already prevailed in my heart over all other religions. That is the true meanings of such verses and not that Islam itself is some kind of man or country that will attack another country and prevail over that country. Islam did prevail in the hearts of people over other religions in Mecca 1400 years ago. It happened because the Mushrikeen had declared wars on Muslims to get Islam out of their hearts.

"Ideal" is not from minority but from the majority. It is ignorance to disregard the majority just to press ahead your twisted argument. keep in mind ISIS and so called jihadists are killing even the Muslims. It is only the fools who urge these ISIS jihadists to carry on by endorsing them to be following teachings of the Qur'an and others not following Islam because they have read the Qur'an only 6-7 times. No wonder you can't eliminate these jihadists after telling them that they are the true followers of the Qur'anic teachings. Of course they are going to believe you and carry on for years.

Quote:
That is a point made in ignorance about the teachings of the Qur'an. You are forgetting or deliberately ignoring the 80% (your figure) who also follow the same Qur'an. Therefore, your point has no leg to stand on
.
It does not eliminate terrorism through silence boil sources
We must announce that the sources of terrorism is from the Koran
this is the truth
Which drives the Muslims is the Koran
And every Muslim carries verses of the Koran
you too
Are not the teachings of the spoils from the teachings of the Koran
Or teach beheadings
This is Islam
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Old 07-13-2016, 10:17 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,581,295 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Principles in a purely Islamic society such as, say, in designated areas of Makkah and Madina (where there are no non-Muslims).
That is an Islamic principle which is supposed to be eternal. Therefore when Naik highlighted this Principle is from Allah to believers, SOME believers will want to see such a principle realized in practice and that is why they [SOME] attempt to get rid of all non-Muslims. This is already a reality as committed by SOME evil prone Muslims who strive to do their best duty as true Muslims who are true to Allah's words.

Quote:
All other false ways. It does not mean it will eradicate Christianity and Judaism. The Qur'an does not regard these two religions as false religion.
Note my point above. This is already a reality with ISIS and other jihadist groups plus some others who are oppressing non-Muslims and their religions.
After the preaching by Naik and others, SOME evil prone Muslims will be imbued with the drive to eradicate Christianity and Judaism in whatever ways they can.

Quote:
There is no need to build a church in an "Islamic State" just as there is no need to build a mosque in the Vatican State.

No. Not in a mixed (Muslim, Christian and Jewish) State.
The point is there is an immutable eternal principle of not allowing Churches and other non-Muslims temples in an Islamic State.

But there are no such immutable holy laws in non-Muslims religions.
If the Vatican happened to employ many Muslims due to various necessity, the Pope will allow a Mosque to be built in the Vatican State just as Sharia Laws are allowed in Christian majority countries like UK and elsewhere.

Quote:
They can easily do it but they respect Christians and Jewish rights as long as they live in there peacefully and not wage war on Muslims.
In practice non-Muslims rights are not fully oppressed in many Muslim-majority countries because the ones in power are humane or they are secular countries.

But what is critical here is there is a principle within Islam that assert Islam will prevail and dominate over all other religions. You will note the fundamentalists in many Muslim-majority countries as driven by this principle from Allah are doing their best to get their way to realize that principles of domination. This is a reality.

Quote:
Once again, you are wrong about Saudi Arabia and their human rights record. Saudi Arabia does not give a s**t about human rights of anyone else other than Saudis. Even the non-Saudi Muslims have no human rights there. I have experience of being there and you do not have that experience. In there, it is not a matter of Muslim and non-Muslim but a matter of Saudis and non-Saudis.
You are pretending to be ignorant about the doctrines of Islam.
Saudi Arabia is controlled by the Wahabbi-Salafists who strive to adhere to the doctrines of Allah and the Quran to the letter. What the Saudis are practicing getting as close as possible to pure genuine Islam.
Point is you and others are in no position to judge them as only Allah can judge.

Quote:
That is not because of Islam but local problems due to lack of knowledge about Islam in which Christians and Jews are respected as People of the Book. It is out of question that there will be no churches there one day when there are even Hindu temples there. The main point of the Qur'an regarding non-believers must be kept in mind that they must not be dealt with unjustly as long as they do not wage war on Muslims like the Meccan non-believers did 1400 years ago. Otherwise, the guidance is to live with them in peace if they want to live in peace with believers. This is why Christians and Jews have lived with Muslims for centuries in places like North Africa, Spain, and other majority Muslim countries. This is why it was Muslims who had permitted Jews to return to Jerusalem when Christians were keeping them out of Jerusalem.
Again who are YOU [a slave of Allah] to judge them on behalf of Allah?

Wrong understanding!

Quote:
Islam prevails over other religions in the hearts of the believers. No other religion have a place in my heart but Islam. Therefore, Islam has already prevailed in my heart over all other religions. That is the true meanings of such verses and not that Islam itself is some kind of man or country that will attack another country and prevail over that country. Islam did prevail in the hearts of people over other religions in Mecca 1400 years ago. It happened because the Mushrikeen had declared wars on Muslims to get Islam out of their hearts.
Hey.. note besides "prevail" in 48:28 what does 'conqueror' means in 61:9

Quote:
61:9 He [Allah] it is who hath sent His messenger with the guidance and the religion [wadeeni] of truth, that He may make it conqueror of all religion [alddeeni] however much idolaters [infidels] may be averse.
This what I meant you cannot have a thorough coverage and understanding by merely reading the Quran 6-7 times only.

Quote:
"Ideal" is not from minority but from the majority. It is ignorance to disregard the majority just to press ahead your twisted argument. keep in mind ISIS and so called jihadists are killing even the Muslims. It is only the fools who urge these ISIS jihadists to carry on by endorsing them to be following teachings of the Qur'an and others not following Islam because they have read the Qur'an only 6-7 times. No wonder you can't eliminate these jihadists after telling them that they are the true followers of the Qur'anic teachings. Of course they are going to believe you and carry on for years.
The "ideal" in the Quran include evil laden elements. While the majority follow the good elements, the evil prone jihadists and others gravitate and satiate themselves to the evil laden elements. Those Muslims killed by ISIS are hypocrite and 'apostate' from their perspectives.
In many cases those who are Muslims [can quote verses in Arabic in their test] are let free and not killed.

Quote:
That is a point made in ignorance about the teachings of the Qur'an. You are forgetting or deliberately ignoring the 80% (your figure) who also follow the same Qur'an. Therefore, your point has no leg to stand on.
What?
I have always state the 80% will general follow the good elements and ignore or are blinded to the evil laden elements.
Zakir Naik's subliminal message imputed with evil elements will influence and inspire SOME from the pool of the 20% of evil prone Muslim who are born [unfortunately] with evil tendencies. This is already a reality with the Bangladesh Cafe case and other cases which we are not aware of.
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Old 07-14-2016, 12:56 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,682 times
Reputation: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post

But there are no such immutable holy laws in non-Muslims religions.
If the Vatican happened to employ many Muslims due to various necessity, the Pope will allow a Mosque to be built in the Vatican State just as Sharia Laws are allowed in Christian majority countries like UK and elsewhere.
]If the Pope was allowed to build a mosque in the Vatican, the Pope would be stupid boil face of the earth
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Old 07-14-2016, 04:01 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,278 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
It does not eliminate terrorism through silence boil sources
We must announce that the sources of terrorism is from the Koran
this is the truth
Which drives the Muslims is the Koran
And every Muslim carries verses of the Koran
you too
Yes, me too. But you are too thick to understand that verses of the Qur'an (not Koran) do not drive me to terrorism. It is because what drives the terrorists to terrorism is bombs being dropped on their countries.

Quote:
Are not the teachings of the spoils from the teachings of the Koran
Or teach beheadings
This is Islam
Do not attack Muslims and you will not be spoiled. "Spoils of War" began with war on Muslims. You are too thick to understand this.
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Old 07-14-2016, 04:04 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,278 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
If the Pope was allowed to build a mosque in the Vatican, the Pope would be stupid boil face of the earth
LOL! That would be the first step for Pope to become Muslim.
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Old 07-14-2016, 04:10 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,278 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
So go to Mecca and you have to live with the tomb of the Prophet and enjoying his sword Maslool
That remark exposes your ignorance. Tomb of the Prophet is not in Mecca.
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Old 07-14-2016, 11:37 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,581,295 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
If the Pope was allowed to build a mosque in the Vatican, the Pope would be stupid boil face of the earth
At the present and in practice, I don't think the Pope and his committee will approve a mosque to be built within the Vatican.

Personally I agree with you, it would be VERY stupid of the Pope to allow a mosque to be built within the Vatican at present or any time.

This is the same with SOME [not all] stupid Christians agreeing for Sharia Laws to be implemented in UK and other Christian majority countries. Personally I think this is a VERY stupid thing to do.

Why building a mosque within the Vatican is possible and why Sharia Laws are accepted because there is no Law within Christianity that do not permit building a mosque within the Vatican or allowing for Sharia Law. In addition the doctrines of Christianity focus on love and compassion for others [even enemies].

On the other hand, there is no room for empathy and compassion for non-Muslims in the overall context of the Quran.
The overriding principle within the Quran is Islam will prevail, conquer and dominate all other religions, thus the dominant impulse of Islam is to suppress other religions and one of the strategy is to prevent them building Churches, temples or get rid of them altogether.
While Woodrow LI and Khalif and many Muslims will not be influenced by the above Islamic-Quranic exhortation of dominance over non-Muslims there are 20% [300 millions -scary] evil prone Muslims around the world eagerly waiting for the opportunity to dominate non-Muslims.
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Old 07-15-2016, 03:23 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,682 times
Reputation: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
At the present and in practice, I don't think the Pope and his committee will approve a mosque to be built within the Vatican.

Personally I agree with you, it would be VERY stupid of the Pope to allow a mosque to be built within the Vatican at present or any time.

This is the same with SOME [not all] stupid Christians agreeing for Sharia Laws to be implemented in UK and other Christian majority countries. Personally I think this is a VERY stupid thing to do.

Why building a mosque within the Vatican is possible and why Sharia Laws are accepted because there is no Law within Christianity that do not permit building a mosque within the Vatican or allowing for Sharia Law. In addition the doctrines of Christianity focus on love and compassion for others [even enemies].

On the other hand, there is no room for empathy and compassion for non-Muslims in the overall context of the Quran.
The overriding principle within the Quran is Islam will prevail, conquer and dominate all other religions, thus the dominant impulse of Islam is to suppress other religions and one of the strategy is to prevent them building Churches, temples or get rid of them altogether.
While Woodrow LI and Khalif and many Muslims will not be influenced by the above Islamic-Quranic exhortation of dominance over non-Muslims there are 20% [300 millions -scary] evil prone Muslims around the world eagerly waiting for the opportunity to dominate non-Muslims.
My friend Esquire
I say that the Pope would be stupid pope since the emergence of Vatican City State
If allowed to build or receive any Muslim land of boiling Vatican
If you want to send you my real name
This is not hatred
But right
My friend
Loving unilaterally incomplete
If I love my wife and do not love me Alglaqh incomplete
If you love a Muslim and a Muslim does not love you
Here the relationship incomplete
Share this message
And I take responsibility regarding
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Old 07-15-2016, 03:38 PM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,278 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
On the other hand, there is no room for empathy and compassion for non-Muslims in the overall context of the Quran.
This is where you expose your lack of understanding of the overall context of the Qur'an. Your comment is not based on overall context of the Qur'an.

[60:8-9] Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice. Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of (your) religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up (others) in your expulsion, that you make friends with them, and whoever makes friends with them, these are the unjust.

These verses are part of the overall context of the Qur'an.
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Old 07-15-2016, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,581,295 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
This is where you expose your lack of understanding of the overall context of the Qur'an. Your comment is not based on overall context of the Qur'an.

[60:8-9] Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice. Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of (your) religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up (others) in your expulsion, that you make friends with them, and whoever makes friends with them, these are the unjust.

These verses are part of the overall context of the Qur'an.
War in whatever sense is fundamentally immoral and evil and should be avoided at all costs. War in whatever sense should never be mentioned so frequently and emphasized in a positive sense in a holy texts.

As far as your accusing me of lacking an understanding in the overall context, you need to take into account what I wrote in the other post;
You forgot easily.

I have stated many times I have done a very detail analysis of all the 6,236 verses in the Quran in the Excel Software where I can mark all verses with similar themes, topics and subjects [not words which I can do from an index or Search].
I have more than 300++ themes, topics, subjects in term of main, sub-topics, sub-sub-topics. It is still work-in-progress, there are more topics to be marked and analyze.

From the Excel Software I can pull out all the verses by sorting out the specific topic.
This is how I claim more than 55% of the 6,236 contain evil laden elements of some degree of contempt to non-Muslims.
I hope you will remember my points above so you do not undermine my credibility again and again merely because of your bad memory.

One point you should note is the Quran have more verses that focus on the elements of non-Muslims than on elements re Allah, Muslim, Muhammad, Paradise, etc.

If based on emphasis of elements, the Quran should be named 'The Contempt of Non-Muslims'. If you want to prove me wrong do a detailed analysis of the Quran yourself to justify your claim.
From the above overall analysis the impact of 60:8-9 is a mere drop of water to the OCEAN of contemptuous elements against the non-Muslims in the Quran that are loaded with all sort of terrible threats of death in the World and in Hell.

The fact is I understanding the overall context of the Quran within the Islam-box from BOTH the perspective of the moderate Muslims [~80%] plus the perspective of the evil prone Muslims [~20%]. In addition I am viewing it from outside the Islam-box.
You only understand one perspective, i.e. your own bias perspective

..............
I presume you are familiar with this test?
Try it if you have not.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo

The above "symptoms" of glaring oversight is applicable to Muslims reading the Quran.
Because the majority of Muslims' critical attention is on salvation most will not have any attention on the evil laden elements.
However the natural 20% of evil prone [born naturally] will have a very strong tendencies to be attracted to the evil laden elements which are very compatible with their nature. This is how they are triggered to commit evils and violence with the belief they are doing their duty as a true Muslims.

I suggest you do some research on the subject of "Selective Attention" which is very natural to ALL human beings, thus increasing knowledge of your own self.
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