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Old 04-08-2017, 03:22 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
I don't see J-H-D means "putting in extra effort".

I see it merely the root letters of words that could mean differently even if these are related in some way.

For example "JIHAD" (noun) is not putting in extra effort but it is name given to the struggle that was faced by the believers in staying in their Deen. Putting in effort, whether extra or not, would be verb "JAHAD" or "JAHID". The root J-H-D will not differentiate "struggle" (noun) and "struggling" (verb). What is often assumed as "jihad" in the western world today is, in fact, "jahad". It has been assumed "jihad" in ignorance about the actual meaning of the word "jihad" in the Qur'aan. The same mistake is often made by those who critique the Qur'aan or Islam. They do it in ignorance but do not realize their mistake.

Just as in English, "building" can be noun and "building" can be verb, in Arabic "struggle" (jihad) is not the same thing as "struggle" (jahad or jahid). Another example is the words "al-hadith" and "hadith" in the Qur'aan are not the same thing. The same goes for "salaat" and "al-salaat". Another example is "Allah" (Al-lah), "The God", is not the same as "god" ("lah" in Arabic).

The root may be the same but there could be a big gulf in the meanings of these words with the same root. Thinking that you have discovered the secret of meanings of the Arabic words in the Qur'aan is not going to help you. You still have to differentiate these same root words for their different meanings (which is crucial to understand the Qur'aan in order to critique or refute the critique in this forum).
My point is where the derivatives words of a family set is from the same root, then they share a common denominator.

The word building [noun] and building [verb] may be different on the surface, but the common denominator is 'build' i.e.

Build
1. to construct (especially something complex) by assembling and joining parts or materials:
to build a house.
2. to establish, increase, or strengthen (often followed by up):
to build a business; to build up one's hopes.
3. to mold, form, or create:
to build boys into men.
Thus we can even reconcile a building [concrete] to body-building [human] by stating the appropriate context in relation to the essence of 'build' as per the dictionary meaning above.

It is the same for the root J-H-D which in essence meant 'to put in extra effort' generally represented by the word 'striving' 'struggling' 'endeavor' or "come-on." Note the essence of strive, struggle is to put in extra effort;
1. to exert oneself vigorously; try hard:
He strove to make himself understood.
2. to make strenuous efforts toward any goal:
to strive for success.
Thus I am not inventing the words but they are from semantic and lexicographical basis.

I have already argued the only J-H-D words that represent specific personal struggle are from 29:6 2x [jahada], 29:69 [yujahidu] and 5:35 [jahid]. Except for 29:8 and 31:15 [by infidels] all the other J-H-D are striving and struggling to fulfil one's obligations toward God which obviously involve the believers.

Now the striving and struggling to fulfill one's obligation is never a 'casual walk in the park' and Allah stated it is on an 'ascent'. There will be degrees [darajatan] of success between different people who put in different levels of extra effort.
90:11. But he [man] hath not attempted the Ascent [3QB: l-ʿaqabata: steep path]
90:12. Ah, what will convey unto thee [man] what the Ascent [l-3QB: ʿaqabatu] is!
The straight path to return to Allah is never easy but one faced many obstacles [internal and external] and one is exhorted to exercise perseverance [SBR: ṣabri; iṣ'birū].

Thus is natural in such a situation one has to put in extra effort [J-H-D] which is reflected in all the J-H-D related words[listed in another post earlier] even from the infidels.
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Old 04-08-2017, 04:08 AM
 
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To mix "jihad" with "jahad" and regard both the same in meaning just because of root J-H-D is wrong way to understand the meanings of the words in the Qur'aan.

The same goes for "al salaat" and "salaat". "al" with "al-salaat" is for a specific reason. Do you know that specific reason?
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Old 04-08-2017, 11:22 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
To mix "jihad" with "jahad" and regard both the same in meaning just because of root J-H-D is wrong way to understand the meanings of the words in the Qur'aan.

The same goes for "al salaat" and "salaat". "al" with "al-salaat" is for a specific reason. Do you know that specific reason?
In the study of roots, each word comprised various hierarchy of meanings,

1. It is root meaning
2. The various forms surrounding the root meaning.


I did not insist 'jihad' and "jahad" has the same meaning in terms of its form.
But whilst different in form, they nevertheless both share the same root meaning i.e. to put in extra effort, e.g. striving.

It is the same for salaat [SLW] which has its root meaning, i.e. 'commitment to Allah to bond, link, join with Allah in fulfilling one's obligation.

It is the same for KFR.
One set of the basic meaning for KFR is 'ungrateful' i.e. kufr and in opposite of SKR i.e. shukr or thankfulness.
There are various derivatives from KFR, i.e. kufr, kafir, kuffar, kafara, etc. but one of the the basic meaning related to KFR is "ungrateful.' A kafir is ungrateful to Allah for not thanking the creations & provisions, message, mercy offered and provided by Allah.

"al" is the definite particle.
Whatever the object, the definite particle direct at, there is still the root meaning of that object.
al salaat is thus 'the' or 'that' commitment to Allah.
If at any time the verse context refer to some sort of 'prayers' the basic meaning and intent of that 'prayer' in that specific situation is still the 'commitment' [root meaning] underlying that action.

Arabic like Hebrew is based on a root system and it is a waste [for you] if you ignore the principles why the root system is used.

A side point;
A belief in God is a psychological impulse and it is a form of a root impulse within the psyche of humans.
If one understand that root impulse of why the majority of humans believe in God and one can deal with it at the root level, then one will not need to believe in a God but be more human.
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Old 04-09-2017, 02:22 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,278 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
In the study of roots, each word comprised various hierarchy of meanings,

1. It is root meaning
2. The various forms surrounding the root meaning.


I did not insist 'jihad' and "jahad" has the same meaning in terms of its form.
But whilst different in form, they nevertheless both share the same root meaning i.e. to put in extra effort, e.g. striving.
No.

Both are not "put in extra effort". Both are not verbs.

One is "struggle" (noun) and the other is "struggling" (verb). The "struggle" (noun) mentioned in the Qur'aan as "jihad" is never related to war, killing or fighting against anyone but against difficulties faced by the believers in staying within the Deen. In fact 22:78 describes the difference between "jahad" and "jihad". It is "struggling" (verb) in a "struggle" (noun) related to keeping up with the Deen for the sake of Allah and for the benefit of ourselves. This verse is not about any fighting against anyone else.
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Old 04-09-2017, 07:15 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
No.

Both are not "put in extra effort". Both are not verbs.

One is "struggle" (noun) and the other is "struggling" (verb). The "struggle" (noun) mentioned in the Qur'aan as "jihad" is never related to war, killing or fighting against anyone but against difficulties faced by the believers in staying within the Deen. In fact 22:78 describes the difference between "jahad" and "jihad". It is "struggling" (verb) in a "struggle" (noun) related to keeping up with the Deen for the sake of Allah and for the benefit of ourselves. This verse is not about any fighting against anyone else.
Somehow you have a problem with grammar here.
strug·gle

verb
verb: struggle; 3rd person present: struggles; past tense: struggled; past participle: struggled; gerund or present participle: struggling

1.make forceful or violent efforts to get free of restraint or constriction.
"before she could struggle, he lifted her up"
synonyms: fight, grapple, wrestle, scuffle, brawl, spar; informalscrap

"James struggled with the intruders"
strive to achieve or attain something in the face of difficulty or resistance.

"many families struggle to make ends meet"
synonyms: strive, try hard, endeavor, make every effort, do one's best/utmost, bend over
backward(s), put oneself out; More

have difficulty handling or coping with.
"passengers struggle with bags and briefcases"

engage in conflict.
"politicians continued to struggle over familiar issues"
synonyms: compete, contend, vie, fight, battle, jockey
"the teams struggled to be first"

make one's way with difficulty.
"he struggled to the summit of the world's highest mountain"
synonyms: scramble, flounder, stumble, fight/battle one's way, labor
"she struggled over the dunes"


noun
noun: struggle; plural noun: struggles
1. a forceful or violent effort to get free of restraint or resist attack.
synonyms: fight, scuffle, brawl, tussle, wrestling bout, skirmish, fracas, melee; More
a conflict or contest.

"a power struggle for the leadership"
synonyms: conflict, fight, battle, confrontation, clash, skirmish; More

a determined effort under difficulties.
"the center is the result of the scientists' struggle to realize their dream"
synonyms: endeavor, striving, effort, exertion, labor; More

a very difficult task.
"it was a struggle to make herself understood"
synonyms: effort, trial, trouble, stress, strain, battle; More

Link:
Struggle is basically a verb but inflected to be a verbal noun.

It is the same with the intended set for J-H-D -jahada- which is basically a verb but with inflected verbal nouns.
If you study the above, in either the verb or the noun forms, the underlying essence of the above words involve "putting in extra effort".
If it is a normal casual actions, then it will not be listed as struggle, strive and the likes.

Quote:
One is "struggle" (noun) and the other is "struggling" (verb). The "struggle" (noun) mentioned in the Qur'aan as "jihad" is never related to war, killing or fighting against anyone but against difficulties faced by the believers in staying within the Deen.
I did not state "jihad" is DIRECTLY related to war, killing or fighting.
60:1 ... .... ... If ye [Muslims] have come forth to strive [JHD: jihad] in My way and seeking My good pleasure, (show them [infidels] not friendship). Do ye [Muslims] show friendship [WDD: bil-mawadati; love] unto them [infidels] in secret, when I am best Aware of what ye [Muslims] hide and what ye proclaim? And whosoever [Muslim] doeth it among you, be verily hath strayed from the right way.
In the above case, Allah exhort believers not to befriend infidels who has wronged [ZLM: zulm] them and in this case Allah added they must exercise "jihad" [JHD] which meant "put in extra effort" not be befriend infidels. This jihad [putting extra effort, be more mindful, deliberate, determine, wary] in 60:1 has nothing to do DIRECTLY war, killing or fighting against anyone.
However such a "jihad" [putting extra effort] in not befriending infidels is establishing enmity which could easily [indirectly] lead to war, fighting and killing. This is a reality in what is happening in the world today.

In 9:24 believers are exhorted to strive [jihad -JHD] [put in extra effort] in Allah's way. This is not directly linked to war, killing or fighting against anyone.
Allah's way mean "the way" [SBL; sabil] thus [SRT: l-ṣirāṭa] that is represented by the whole message of Allah in the Quran.
The whole message of Allah is in the 6,236 verses of the Quran.
The 6,236 verses of the Quran contain evil laden elements that inspire SOME evil prone Muslims [as a duty to please Allah] to commit terrible evils and violence via war, fighting, killing, oppression, against infidels who had "zulm" [ZLM].
Therefore while "jihad" [JHD] do not DIRECTLY linked to warring and killings of infidels, in can indirectly be linked to warring depending on the context and committed by SOME [not all] Muslims who are evil prone.

Btw, you do not have any divine authority to judge those Muslims who commit evil and violence [in the above case] to please Allah.
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Old 04-13-2017, 01:16 PM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,278 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Somehow you have a problem with grammar here.
strug·gle

verb
verb: struggle; 3rd person present: struggles; past tense: struggled; past participle: struggled; gerund or present participle: struggling

1.make forceful or violent efforts to get free of restraint or constriction.
"before she could struggle, he lifted her up"
synonyms: fight, grapple, wrestle, scuffle, brawl, spar; informalscrap

"James struggled with the intruders"
strive to achieve or attain something in the face of difficulty or resistance.

"many families struggle to make ends meet"
synonyms: strive, try hard, endeavor, make every effort, do one's best/utmost, bend over
backward(s), put oneself out; More

have difficulty handling or coping with.
"passengers struggle with bags and briefcases"

engage in conflict.
"politicians continued to struggle over familiar issues"
synonyms: compete, contend, vie, fight, battle, jockey
"the teams struggled to be first"

make one's way with difficulty.
"he struggled to the summit of the world's highest mountain"
synonyms: scramble, flounder, stumble, fight/battle one's way, labor
"she struggled over the dunes"


noun
noun: struggle; plural noun: struggles
1. a forceful or violent effort to get free of restraint or resist attack.
synonyms: fight, scuffle, brawl, tussle, wrestling bout, skirmish, fracas, melee; More
a conflict or contest.

"a power struggle for the leadership"
synonyms: conflict, fight, battle, confrontation, clash, skirmish; More

a determined effort under difficulties.
"the center is the result of the scientists' struggle to realize their dream"
synonyms: endeavor, striving, effort, exertion, labor; More

a very difficult task.
"it was a struggle to make herself understood"
synonyms: effort, trial, trouble, stress, strain, battle; More

Link:
Struggle is basically a verb but inflected to be a verbal noun.

It is the same with the intended set for J-H-D -jahada- which is basically a verb but with inflected verbal nouns.
If you study the above, in either the verb or the noun forms, the underlying essence of the above words involve "putting in extra effort".
If it is a normal casual actions, then it will not be listed as struggle, strive and the likes.

I did not state "jihad" is DIRECTLY related to war, killing or fighting.
60:1 ... .... ... If ye [Muslims] have come forth to strive [JHD: jihad] in My way and seeking My good pleasure, (show them [infidels] not friendship). Do ye [Muslims] show friendship [WDD: bil-mawadati; love] unto them [infidels] in secret, when I am best Aware of what ye [Muslims] hide and what ye proclaim? And whosoever [Muslim] doeth it among you, be verily hath strayed from the right way.
In the above case, Allah exhort believers not to befriend infidels who has wronged [ZLM: zulm] them and in this case Allah added they must exercise "jihad" [JHD] which meant "put in extra effort" not be befriend infidels. This jihad [putting extra effort, be more mindful, deliberate, determine, wary] in 60:1 has nothing to do DIRECTLY war, killing or fighting against anyone.
However such a "jihad" [putting extra effort] in not befriending infidels is establishing enmity which could easily [indirectly] lead to war, fighting and killing. This is a reality in what is happening in the world today.

In 9:24 believers are exhorted to strive [jihad -JHD] [put in extra effort] in Allah's way. This is not directly linked to war, killing or fighting against anyone.
Allah's way mean "the way" [SBL; sabil] thus [SRT: l-ṣirāṭa] that is represented by the whole message of Allah in the Quran.
The whole message of Allah is in the 6,236 verses of the Quran.
The 6,236 verses of the Quran contain evil laden elements that inspire SOME evil prone Muslims [as a duty to please Allah] to commit terrible evils and violence via war, fighting, killing, oppression, against infidels who had "zulm" [ZLM].
Therefore while "jihad" [JHD] do not DIRECTLY linked to warring and killings of infidels, in can indirectly be linked to warring depending on the context and committed by SOME [not all] Muslims who are evil prone.

Btw, you do not have any divine authority to judge those Muslims who commit evil and violence [in the above case] to please Allah.
"Jahada" is not a verbal noun but just verb. It is "jahda" that is verbal noun.

Regardless, you see both words, "jihad" and "jahada", as verbal noun. What is then the difference between each of these two verbal nouns, "jihad" and "jahada"?

And why the politicians particularly and others never use the word "jahada" but only "jihad"?
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Old 04-13-2017, 07:59 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
"Jahada" is not a verbal noun but just verb. It is "jahda" that is verbal noun.

Regardless, you see both words, "jihad" and "jahada", as verbal noun. What is then the difference between each of these two verbal nouns, "jihad" and "jahada"?

And why the politicians particularly and others never use the word "jahada" but only "jihad"?
I did NOT state "jahada" is a noun. Note what I said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum
It is the same with the intended set for J-H-D -jahada- which is basically a verb but with inflected verbal nouns.
Inflected:
1. GRAMMAR
-change the form of (a word) to express a particular grammatical function or attribute, typically tense, mood, person, number, case, and gender.
The basic verb FORM is 'jahada' and it is inflected [changed] to reflect as a verbal noun as in 'jihad'.

Quote:
And why the politicians particularly and others never use the word "jahada" but only "jihad"?
As I had explained, the term 'jihad' was abused [bastardized and grammatically raped] by the Ahadith followers to represent the ethos of warring from the Quran.

Somehow the term 'jihad' evolved [gradually over time] with regular usage to link it with the warring ethos from the Quran [part of it]. Because the warring ethos by those SOME evil prone is so dominating and was naturally associated with 'jihad.'
This is the same natural process how original words were bastardized and 'raped' to form new meanings. Note the term 'gay' and many other words.
Then the term 'jihad' as represented by warring Islamists [holy war] entered the Arabic dictionary as jihad(Arabic) = holy war.
Because jihad(Arabic) was in the Arabic dictionary, it slowly was included in the English dictionaries as jihad(English). Thus the eventual exposure to the wider global community.

So the term 'jihad' (English) was not initiated by non-Arabs.

It is not the politicians but everyone is using the term 'jihad'(English, etc) to represent the real actions and events committed by SOME evil prone Muslims. Note what is represented by word 'jihad'(Arabic, English, etc) is referenced to something real, i.e. real warring by SOME Islamists.

Why do you keep saying the 'politicians' used the term 'jihad'(English) as if they had done something wrong when what they are doing [[like everyone]] was talking about that aspect of reality. I believe the politicians were the last group to use this term and many are still hesitant to use 'jihad' (English) to reflect the real thing, i.e. evils and violence by SOME Muslims who are evil prone and inspired by evil laden verses in the Quran.

As I had explained jihad (Quranic) is not 'holy war' as long as it is referred solely within the Quran.
However 'jihad' [strive, striving, struggle with extra effort] in the Quran is indirectly linked to warring [holy war] and other deeds of Muslims and infidels.
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Old 04-14-2017, 01:01 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,278 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I did NOT state "jahada" is a noun. Note what I said.


Inflected:
1. GRAMMAR
-change the form of (a word) to express a particular grammatical function or attribute, typically tense, mood, person, number, case, and gender.
The basic verb FORM is 'jahada' and it is inflected [changed] to reflect as a verbal noun as in 'jihad'.

As I had explained, the term 'jihad' was abused [bastardized and grammatically raped] by the Ahadith followers to represent the ethos of warring from the Quran.

Somehow the term 'jihad' evolved [gradually over time] with regular usage to link it with the warring ethos from the Quran [part of it]. Because the warring ethos by those SOME evil prone is so dominating and was naturally associated with 'jihad.'
This is the same natural process how original words were bastardized and 'raped' to form new meanings. Note the term 'gay' and many other words.
Then the term 'jihad' as represented by warring Islamists [holy war] entered the Arabic dictionary as jihad(Arabic) = holy war.
Because jihad(Arabic) was in the Arabic dictionary, it slowly was included in the English dictionaries as jihad(English). Thus the eventual exposure to the wider global community.

So the term 'jihad' (English) was not initiated by non-Arabs.

It is not the politicians but everyone is using the term 'jihad'(English, etc) to represent the real actions and events committed by SOME evil prone Muslims. Note what is represented by word 'jihad'(Arabic, English, etc) is referenced to something real, i.e. real warring by SOME Islamists.

Why do you keep saying the 'politicians' used the term 'jihad'(English) as if they had done something wrong when what they are doing [[like everyone]] was talking about that aspect of reality. I believe the politicians were the last group to use this term and many are still hesitant to use 'jihad' (English) to reflect the real thing, i.e. evils and violence by SOME Muslims who are evil prone and inspired by evil laden verses in the Quran.

As I had explained jihad (Quranic) is not 'holy war' as long as it is referred solely within the Quran.
However 'jihad' [strive, striving, struggle with extra effort] in the Quran is indirectly linked to warring [holy war] and other deeds of Muslims and infidels.
The Qur'aan itself does not link "jihad" to warring whether directly or indirectly. If people misuse a word of the Qur'aan, it should be highlighted as a mistake. Whether these words of the Qur'aan (jahad and jihad) are reflected to form something else must have precedent in the Qur'aan. I see no evidence in the Qur'aan that "jahad" has been inflected to "jihad" or "jihad" has been inflected to "jahad". Each is used in its own form in the Qur'aan. Both words are there in the Qur'aan in their own right and for a specific reason. Using them alternatively as the fancy takes is ignorance of the language in the Qur'aan. It is wrong to "inflect"/"misrepresent" a word of the Qur'aan.

Another point to note for you is that you can tell the difference in the words جِهَاد ((jihad) and جَاهَد (jahad) in the Qur'aan the way they are pronounced. But this is not possible in hadith books particularly the way they are translated into English. Even the word جِهَاد ("jihad") in the hadith books is often translated as if it is fighting in a warring situation. Clearly, it is a matter of translation mistake. At least we have the Arabic Qur'aan with us to differentiate "jihad" from "jahad".
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