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Old 07-23-2016, 07:51 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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I notice in the recitation of Al Fatiha, some Muslims start with 'Bismi Allahi alrrahman alrraheemi'
while some start with "Alahmadu lilahi Rabbi alAAalameena".
I addition some start with a verse on 'Shytan'.

Why are there such variations on such an important chapter [mother of Quran?] when the Quran is from Allah and Muslims must comply with the words of Allah?
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Old 07-23-2016, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I notice in the recitation of Al Fatiha, some Muslims start with 'Bismi Allahi alrrahman alrraheemi'
while some start with "Alahmadu lilahi Rabbi alAAalameena".
I addition some start with a verse on 'Shytan'.

Why are there such variations on such an important chapter [mother of Quran?] when the Quran is from Allah and Muslims must comply with the words of Allah?

I have never heard any Muslim recite al-Fatiha without the first line 'Bismi Allahi alrrahman alrraheemi'
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Old 07-23-2016, 09:54 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I have never heard any Muslim recite al-Fatiha without the first line 'Bismi Allahi alrrahman alrraheemi'
Here's something new for you.
In the video below the Al-Fatiha is recited without the "Bismi ...." .


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ7dP2BBmLM


I am learning the recitation of Chapter 1 and I believe that is one effective way to understand the Arabic language in practice and for purpose of reading the Quran in Arabic.

I have heard many recitations of al-fatiha that is where I came across many recitations that do not start with the 'Bismi allahi ..".
Is one of this alternative 'shirk'??


Many recitations added the 'seek refuge from Satan .." verse.
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Old 07-23-2016, 10:21 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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In the case of the video, I am quite certain this is a case where the Tourist in Mecca was late starting his recording. The Daily prayers are heard city wide over the loud speakers. Each Rakkat of the 5 Daily prayers begins with a recitation of al-Fatihah. I believe the recorder was late pushing the record button


As far as beginning with "A-ozu billahi mena shaitaan Arrajeem" do you have an example of that?
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Old 07-23-2016, 10:54 PM
 
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Both, reciting and not reciting of Bismillah before Fatiha is good. Because the prophet (saw) did it both ways. Just like doing Rafa Yadain, or not doing rafa Yadain - saying "Ameen" out loud after the fatiha or not saying it out loud, are both Sunnahs.

This is one of the indications of Allah's love for our beloved prophet (saw) that his Sunnahs are saved primarily in the 4 schools of thought.

There is no other man in the history of mankind whose day to day living and life actions, and his gestures and his speech is recorded and saved in such detail as the prophet Muhammad (saw).

For believers, these are some of the signs.
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Old 07-23-2016, 11:19 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
In the case of the video, I am quite certain this is a case where the Tourist in Mecca was late starting his recording. The Daily prayers are heard city wide over the loud speakers. Each Rakkat of the 5 Daily prayers begins with a recitation of al-Fatihah. I believe the recorder was late pushing the record button

As far as beginning with "A-ozu billahi mena shaitaan Arrajeem" do you have an example of that?
There are 10 recitations in that video and all of them start without the 'Bisma Allahi...'
Note picture of the Kaaba is merely a background picture.

Most start with "A-ozu billahi mena shaitaan Arrajeem"
Here is one example,


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUZxx0czuCA
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Old 07-23-2016, 11:22 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Both, reciting and not reciting of Bismillah before Fatiha is good. Because the prophet (saw) did it both ways. Just like doing Rafa Yadain, or not doing rafa Yadain - saying "Ameen" out loud after the fatiha or not saying it out loud, are both Sunnahs.

This is one of the indications of Allah's love for our beloved prophet (saw) that his Sunnahs are saved primarily in the 4 schools of thought.

There is no other man in the history of mankind whose day to day living and life actions, and his gestures and his speech is recorded and saved in such detail as the prophet Muhammad (saw).

For believers, these are some of the signs.
Point is in all the Qurans [>45 English Translations] I have read so far, 1:1 is the "Bismi Allahi alrrahmani alrraheemi"
So why is the perfected word of Allah not recited in the most critical prayers of Islam by SOME Muslims.
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Old 07-24-2016, 02:20 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,038,942 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I notice in the recitation of Al Fatiha, some Muslims start with 'Bismi Allahi alrrahman alrraheemi'
while some start with "Alahmadu lilahi Rabbi alAAalameena".
I addition some start with a verse on 'Shytan'.

Why are there such variations on such an important chapter [mother of Quran?] when the Quran is from Allah and Muslims must comply with the words of Allah?
'Bissmi-llahi-rrahmani-rraheem' is the first verse of Al-Fatiha. It is always recited at the beginning if one is reciting the Al-Fatiha on one's own for the first time. During a formal prayer, say in a mosque, everyone says it silently (to begin with) and then the rest of the 6 verses are recited by the imam loudly in three of the five prayers. Whatever the case, everyone begins the Al-Fatiha with Bissmi-llah for the first time whether silently or loudly.

Therefore, Bismi-Allah is always said by everyone silently during a formal prayer as it is meant for the beginning rather than beginning has to be repeated again and again when you are not beginning that particular prayer. During the prayer, purpose is prayer. At all other times, purpose is recitation of the Opening (Surah) on its own in full as it will be recited only once.

Bissmi-llah is also said by us at the beginning of almost everything we do in normal daily life (such as eating or drinking water). Therefore, this verse is said more often than any other verse in our lifetime as well as when reading or reciting the whole Qur'an.

Verse to do with 'shaytan' is not a part of the Al-Fatiha.
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Old 07-24-2016, 11:09 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
'Bissmi-llahi-rrahmani-rraheem' is the first verse of Al-Fatiha. It is always recited at the beginning if one is reciting the Al-Fatiha on one's own for the first time. During a formal prayer, say in a mosque, everyone says it silently (to begin with) and then the rest of the 6 verses are recited by the imam loudly in three of the five prayers. Whatever the case, everyone begins the Al-Fatiha with Bissmi-llah for the first time whether silently or loudly.

Therefore, Bismi-Allah is always said by everyone silently during a formal prayer as it is meant for the beginning rather than beginning has to be repeated again and again when you are not beginning that particular prayer. During the prayer, purpose is prayer. At all other times, purpose is recitation of the Opening (Surah) on its own in full as it will be recited only once.

Bissmi-llah is also said by us at the beginning of almost everything we do in normal daily life (such as eating or drinking water). Therefore, this verse is said more often than any other verse in our lifetime as well as when reading or reciting the whole Qur'an.

Verse to do with 'shaytan' is not a part of the Al-Fatiha.
You stated as above,
"Bismi-Allah is always said by everyone silently during a formal prayer "

Are you sure?
Have you asked those from the 'Ahamdu i lah ..' camp?

I have been reading on this contention and noted there are two camps within Muslims, i.e.
1. The 'Bismi .' camp &
2. The 'Ahamdu I lah' camp.

I not very sure yet, but I understand those in the 'Ahamdu I lah' camp do not recite the 'Bismi .. lah' verses when they recite the Al-fatiha loudly or silently. I need to read more and confirm on this point.
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Old 07-25-2016, 02:10 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,038,942 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
You stated as above,
"Bismi-Allah is always said by everyone silently during a formal prayer "

Are you sure?
Have you asked those from the 'Ahamdu i lah ..' camp?

I have been reading on this contention and noted there are two camps within Muslims, i.e.
1. The 'Bismi .' camp &
2. The 'Ahamdu I lah' camp.

I not very sure yet, but I understand those in the 'Ahamdu I lah' camp do not recite the 'Bismi .. lah' verses when they recite the Al-fatiha loudly or silently. I need to read more and confirm on this point.
I am not exactly sure what is meant by you as 'Ahamdu I lah' camp. Are you referring to the words said (1:2) or a group like Ahmadis who think there are 6 verses in Al-Fatiha? Ahmadi translations have 6 verses in Al-Fatiha. Bismillah is not included in the numbering.

Bissmillah is said by me as is said by all that I personally know. It is so because the reference in the Qur'an 15:87 is reference to the 7 verses of Al-Fatiha that are repeated quite often.

If you go to a mosque of mainstream Muslims and observe any of the morning, evening or the night prayer, there is a short gap between the initial Allahu Akbar recited by the imam to begin the prayer and before he begins to recite Al-Fatiha from 1:2. Bissmillah (1:1) is said silently by all (including the imam) during that gap just before the recitation from 1:2 begins.
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