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Old 07-26-2016, 02:38 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Since Islamic terrorism is so prevalent and regular these days, this useful article will help to give a wake-up call to any Muslims who happened to be caught in a similar situation.

Terrorist in 10 months | The Daily Star

The article refer to Suman Hossain Patwari, one of the Bangladeshi jihadist who was caught and he confessed and related the process on how he was indoctrinated based on the Al-Qaeda modus operandi to seduce ordinary Muslims to become terrorists and kill enemies of Islam without any second thought nor blinking.

So if any of you Muslim who read this beware, wake-up and run if you are caught in such a similar situation which appeared to be very normal, casual and innocent encounters initially.
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Old 07-26-2016, 03:04 AM
 
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Good advice but not the best.

These people never learnt Islam through their own study of the Qur'an but from other "jihadists" who do not want to be practical jihadists themselves.

The best advice is to read the Qur'an, understand the Qur'an after deeply pondering over its ayat on each issue and then apply the knowledge in your life so that you can become khalif of Allah on earth. Thus "study" of the Qur'an is the best advice.
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Old 07-26-2016, 09:04 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,582,067 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Good advice but not the best.

These people never learnt Islam through their own study of the Qur'an but from other "jihadists" who do not want to be practical jihadists themselves.

The best advice is to read the Qur'an, understand the Qur'an after deeply pondering over its ayat on each issue and then apply the knowledge in your life so that you can become khalif of Allah on earth. Thus "study" of the Qur'an is the best advice.
Based on the Principles of the Bell Curve in application to the variables of human nature, I would expect the above awareness in the article will only have effect on SOME % of Muslims.

As with human nature, there will always be a % of hardcore Muslims [as with humans] who will never be receptive to such awareness and will be evil prone no matter how much advice is given to them or even if they are threatened with the death penalty for murder.

It is the same for your 'best advice' because it is only a rare few who will be capable or have the natural inclination to ponder deeply when they read the Quran and apply that to their life. The Principles of the Bell Curve dictate that human nature is always distributed over a range [shades of grey] from one extreme [low] to the other extreme [high].
Even Allah mentioned this when Allah make provisions in some cases where Allah do not burden those who are not capable, i.e. just do their best based on their inherent abilities.
Therefore Allah will not agree with your 'best advice' which cannot be applicable consistently to ALL Muslims.

The point is the Quran presented the verses with the DUCK-RABBIT scenarios and alternatives where what is perceived as good deeds to the evil prone result to be real evil and violence for humanity.
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Old 07-27-2016, 02:59 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,848 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Based on the Principles of the Bell Curve in application to the variables of human nature, I would expect the above awareness in the article will only have effect on SOME % of Muslims.
[10.42] And there are those of them who hear you, but can you make the deaf to hear though they will not understand?

The point is, it will have no effect on those who do not understand the Qur'an.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
As with human nature, there will always be a % of hardcore Muslims [as with humans] who will never be receptive to such awareness and will be evil prone no matter how much advice is given to them or even if they are threatened with the death penalty for murder.
People are products of their experience and often change once they "understand" something in their action is wrong. It happens with all kind of criminals too. The Qur'an needs to be read and understood for it to be any use to you.

[38.29] (It is) a Book We have revealed to you abounding in good that they may ponder over its verses, and that those endowed with understanding may be mindful.

One becomes mindful of the verses of the Qur'an once he has pondered over them and understood them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
It is the same for your 'best advice' because it is only a rare few who will be capable or have the natural inclination to ponder deeply when they read the Quran and apply that to their life.
Whether there are a rare few or a lot, pondering over ayat of the Qur'an and understanding it is the best advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Even Allah make provisions in some cases where Allah do not burden those who are not capable, i.e. just do their best based on their inherent abilities.
That is a completely different subject to do with physical disabilities and mental disability. Mentally incapable or mentally dead is not going to do anything. All criminals can ponder and understand the Qur'an if they try.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Therefore Allah will not agree with your 'best advice' which cannot be applicable consistently to ALL Muslims.
The advice is not from me but this advice was learnt from the Qur'an after pondering over its ayat and understanding the Qur'an.

[67.10] And they shall say: Had we but listened or pondered, we should not have been among the inmates of the burning fire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The point is the Quran presented the verses with the DUCK-RABBIT scenarios and alternatives where what is perceived as good deeds to the evil prone result to be real evil and violence for humanity.
That is your misunderstanding of the Qur'an!

The Qur'an presented the verses on the same issue quite comprehensively. The advice is not in just single verse (the Qur'an is not based on just single verse) but in all the verses collectively on the same issue. Your duck-rabbit is due to lack of understanding of the verses on the same issue. Tearing the verses apart and then trying to understand one or the other is what results in duck-rabbit understanding. Thus it is not the fault of the Qur'an but of those who make the Qur'an into shred and then see either duck or rabbit. It is like splitting a completed jigsaw puzzle into half and then seeing only part of the picture. I do not split it but put it together and then see the full picture.

[2.174] Surely those who conceal any part of the Book that Allah has revealed and take for it a small price, they eat nothing but fire into their bellies, and Allah will not speak to them on the day of resurrection, nor will He purify them, and they shall have a painful chastisement.

No book was revealed to be used only in part and the other part to be disregarded. All parts on the same issue must be taken and used to understand any issue in full or one is going to eat fire in his belly.

Regardless of how you see human nature or limitation of human nature, the advice in the Qur'an is the best advice.

[13.19] Is he then who knows that what has been revealed to you from your Lord is the truth like him who is blind? Only those possessed of understanding will mind.

[14.52] This is a sufficient exposition for the people and that they may be warned thereby, and that they may know that He is One God and that those possessed of understanding may mind.

[39.18] Those who listen to the word, then follow the best of it; those are they whom Allah has guided, and those it is who are the men of understanding.
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Old 07-27-2016, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Since Islamic terrorism is so prevalent and regular these days, this useful article will help to give a wake-up call to any Muslims who happened to be caught in a similar situation.

Terrorist in 10 months | The Daily Star

The article refer to Suman Hossain Patwari, one of the Bangladeshi jihadist who was caught and he confessed and related the process on how he was indoctrinated based on the Al-Qaeda modus operandi to seduce ordinary Muslims to become terrorists and kill enemies of Islam without any second thought nor blinking.

So if any of you Muslim who read this beware, wake-up and run if you are caught in such a similar situation which appeared to be very normal, casual and innocent encounters initially.
None of us are to follow any earthly religious leader. We alone have the responsibility to question and verify all things. We alone our responsible for our own actions. No one has the option of claiming they were misled, to follow evil is ones own choice, being to lazy to verify is a choice and we are responsible just as much as if we had chosen evil with no outside influence.

It is all about personal responsibility and for each of us to verify all things before we accept them as true.
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Old 07-27-2016, 08:06 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,944 times
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[quote=Khalif;44909825][10.42]
Quote:
One becomes mindful of the verses of the Qur'an once he has pondered over them and understood them.

Whether there are a rare few or a lot, pondering over ayat of the Qur'an and understanding it is the best advice.
If you think about in the verses of the Koran will become schizophrenic personal
Because we are faced with contradictory states
And faced with the teachings of the fighting
And if you think about the state fight the Jews and the Christians will be your destiny to become a killer involuntarily

If the connection between verses of the Koran will become a terrorist Class
Link between verse
1. Fight those who believe not in God and the last day ----
2-over the necks, and smite
3-And prepared them power to terrorize the enemy of Allah and your enemy, you
That is a completely different subject to do with physical disabilities and mental disability. Mentally incapable or mentally dead is not going to do anything. All criminals can ponder and understand the Qur'an if they try.

The advice is not from me but this advice was learnt from the Qur'an after pondering over its ayat and understanding the Qur'an.
The verses that curse Abu flame and curse the Christians and infidels
The verses that calls for dividing the spoils and give a share of Muhammad
And verses for the encapsulation Mohammed nationality
The verses own way in the worship of the Black Stone
And copied verses and verses copier
Why Sbaky from the Koran even understand
Is monotheism of Islam does not know the Lord's unification
Because the Muslim must believe that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah
This means the participation of the Creator with the creature
And the link between them in the faith
And the last day and paradise
Van sexual pleasure in paradise
Make it a cheap nightclub
Where virginity defloration
After all this Manual
What do you want to understand Islam
To say Ammmmeyen
As she tells her parrot
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Old 07-27-2016, 08:11 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,944 times
Reputation: 204
The priest slaughtered in France on the Islamic way
It calls for the courage to say
He said the French declares that the Koran is the main Albagt to this crime
We must form a special Mahmh to try Koran
His teachings on terror
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Old 07-27-2016, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,582,067 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
None of us are to follow any earthly religious leader. We alone have the responsibility to question and verify all things. We alone our responsible for our own actions. No one has the option of claiming they were misled, to follow evil is ones own choice, being to lazy to verify is a choice and we are responsible just as much as if we had chosen evil with no outside influence.

It is all about personal responsibility and for each of us to verify all things before we accept them as true.
Your views above are not in tune reality.

If based on your advice, then the authorities should not ban or censor materials that has evil and violence elements in the movies, medias such as books, News, articles, speeches, sports, etc.
Why??
Because based on your 'very sound' advice as above [some changes].

None of us are to follow any earthly [movie producers, News channels, authors, speakers, etc.].
We alone have the responsibility to question and verify all things.
We alone our responsible for our own actions.
No one has the option of claiming they were misled, to follow evil is ones own choice, being to lazy to verify is a choice and we are responsible just as much as if we had chosen evil with no outside influence.
I am sure you will agree with me the above are not sound advice at all.

Then why are you making the exception for any religion that contain tons of evil elements.
The only reason is because as a believer you MUST see only good things in your religion and be blind or ignore all negative and evil laden elements.

Note this; [28,895] [I think it was 28,884] yesterday!



In many of the above incidents the killers were directly quoting verses from the Quran and/or Ahadiths and in most other cases, the evils and violence can be traced to Islam-in-part as the root cause.

I suggest you get in touch in reality and not to think from only your personal [selfish in a way] perspective.
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Old 07-27-2016, 08:07 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Your views above are not in tune reality.

If based on your advice, then the authorities should not ban or censor materials that has evil and violence elements in the movies, medias such as books, News, articles, speeches, sports, etc.
Why??
Because based on your 'very sound' advice as above [some changes].

None of us are to follow any earthly [movie producers, News channels, authors, speakers, etc.].
We alone have the responsibility to question and verify all things.
We alone our responsible for our own actions.
No one has the option of claiming they were misled, to follow evil is ones own choice, being to lazy to verify is a choice and we are responsible just as much as if we had chosen evil with no outside influence.
I am sure you will agree with me the above are not sound advice at all.

Then why are you making the exception for any religion that contain tons of evil elements.
The only reason is because as a believer you MUST see only good things in your religion and be blind or ignore all negative and evil laden elements.

Note this; [28,895] [I think it was 28,884] yesterday!



In many of the above incidents the killers were directly quoting verses from the Quran and/or Ahadiths and in most other cases, the evils and violence can be traced to Islam-in-part as the root cause.

I suggest you get in touch in reality and not to think from only your personal [selfish in a way] perspective.
To assume that one is Muslim because they quote the Qur'an makes as much sense as assuming a terrorist is an Atheist if he does not quote religious scripture.

No, it is not just religious leaders we should not Blindly follow. That includes anyone Religioular, Political etc.. I should have clarified I intended to say "Blindly Follow"

I still stand that we each are responsible for any evil we commit. Even if we believe we are not committing evil. It is our responsibility to verify if our actions are evil or good.
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Old 07-27-2016, 08:44 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,582,067 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
[10.42] And there are those of them who hear you, but can you make the deaf to hear though they will not understand?

The point is, it will have no effect on those who do not understand the Qur'an.
You are off topic on this. The above refer to hardcore disbelievers for various reasons.

I was referring to people who are already Muslims, i.e. those who have submitted and affirmed the Shahada directly or impliedly.
Based on the Principles of Normal Distribution, [Bell Curve] within the 1.5 billion Muslims there will be a range [low to high] of personalities, psychology, and all physical and mental abilities.
It is obvious there will be a percentage % of Muslims who are idiots and cannot understand the whole message of the Quran no matter what steps are taken to educate them on it.

Quote:
People are products of their experience and often change once they "understand" something in their action is wrong. It happens with all kind of criminals too. The Qur'an needs to be read and understood for it to be any use to you.
[38.29] (It is) a Book We have revealed to you abounding in good that they may ponder over its verses, and that those endowed with understanding may be mindful.

One becomes mindful of the verses of the Qur'an once he has pondered over them and understood them.
We have gone through this many times in your ignorance of human nature and how the brain works. Human abilities [physical or mental] critically depend on connections of the nerves [neuron]. Once the nerves are damaged they are done for good, note the physical and mentally handicaps and their varying degrees. The borderline cases may have a chance of cure but not the problematic ones.

"Understanding" any thing involved a complicated high level mental faculty with billions and billions of connections. If 'understanding' is so easy to train, then we will have all students in schools scoring distinctions in very subject the take. But it will remain a fact for a long time, in term of 'understanding' there will be the hardcore who cannot understand clearly because of the nature of their brain/mind [damage, bad connections] and there will be the good ones.
This fact of human nature is applicable to the understanding of religious texts, the Quran in this case.

Therefore your assumption that all can understand easily, example the Quran, is too simplistic and based on ignorance of reality and human nature.
That is the problem when one discussed with people who are hell bent to be in an ignorant state of human nature because they are restraint by their religious beliefs.


Quote:
Whether there are a rare few or a lot, pondering over ayat of the Qur'an and understanding it is the best advice.
Yes, in theory but you are ignoring practical reality.
Quote:
That is a completely different subject to do with physical disabilities and mental disability. Mentally incapable or mentally dead is not going to do anything. All criminals can ponder and understand the Qur'an if they try.
That is my point.
Some criminal may and many have done that but not all because your their physical state of the nerves connection in their brain. I believe the most is 10% of borderline cases can understand the Quran and turn into a new leaf and be good. The reality is many Muslims prisoners became worse after being exposed to evil preachers in prison.

The point is, if Allah is a really wise God and understood human nature fully, then Allah would not have included the evil laden elements in the Quran with an open-ended passport that influenced, especially the hardcore evil prone Muslims to commit terrible evils and violence around the world.
Evidence? note this [28,895] it was 28,884 yesterday
which is merely one type of evil committed by evil prone Muslims.



Why the above is because the Quran was authored by human[s] not a wise God [if exist].

Quote:
The advice is not from me but this advice was learnt from the Qur'an after pondering over its ayat and understanding the Qur'an.

[67.10] And they shall say: Had we but listened or pondered, we should not have been among the inmates of the burning fire.
If they listened, ponder and reflect, the Muslims will avoid the burning fire in Hell, but that is only within the Muslim-box and not the reality-box.
While the evil prone Muslims [potential pool of 20%] selfishly avoided the Hell within the Muslim-box, the created real hell on Earth for humanity. This is because the listened and ponder to understand the evil laden verses in the Quran and comply with them as a duty of being a 'good' Muslim to get favorable rewards in Paradise as promised by Allah in the Quran.

Quote:
That is your misunderstanding of the Qur'an!

The Qur'an presented the verses on the same issue quite comprehensively. The advice is not in just single verse (the Qur'an is not based on just single verse) but in all the verses collectively on the same issue. Your duck-rabbit is due to lack of understanding of the verses on the same issue. Tearing the verses apart and then trying to understand one or the other is what results in duck-rabbit understanding. Thus it is not the fault of the Qur'an but of those who make the Qur'an into shred and then see either duck or rabbit. It is like splitting a completed jigsaw puzzle into half and then seeing only part of the picture. I do not split it but put it together and then see the full picture.

[2.174] Surely those who conceal any part of the Book that Allah has revealed and take for it a small price, they eat nothing but fire into their bellies, and Allah will not speak to them on the day of resurrection, nor will He purify them, and they shall have a painful chastisement.

No book was revealed to be used only in part and the other part to be disregarded. All parts on the same issue must be taken and used to understand any issue in full or one is going to eat fire in his belly.

Regardless of how you see human nature or limitation of human nature, the advice in the Qur'an is the best advice.

[13.19] Is he then who knows that what has been revealed to you from your Lord is the truth like him who is blind? Only those possessed of understanding will mind.

[14.52] This is a sufficient exposition for the people and that they may be warned thereby, and that they may know that He is One God and that those possessed of understanding may mind.

[39.18] Those who listen to the word, then follow the best of it; those are they whom Allah has guided, and those it is who are the men of understanding.
Again you are ignorant of human nature.
Look at this picture below,



So what did you see on the first impression of it?
It is likely you will see either the duck or the rabbit.
If you see the rabbit, you may not see the duck at all.
If no one tell you there is a 'duck' and 'rabbit' in that image, you will forever be ignorant till eternity of the other picture.

Why you or otherwise see only one picture on first impression is because of one's psychological state accumulated since birth or before birth.

It is the same with the evil prone Muslims being sensitive or inclined to the evil laden elements in the Quran. It is not based on the reading of one verse only but the overall context of the paragraph, chapter, the whole Quran, ethos of Islam and the person total psychology.

Therefore your individual verses from the Quran in blue above do not work unless you deal with the overall context of the Quran [all the evil laden verses together in synch], the overall ethos of Islam and the evil prone psychological state of the evil prone Muslims collectively [not individually].

Btw, those who see either the Duck or Rabbit do not shred the Quran into verses but ignorantly perceive only one image.
One need a higher level of intellect [which you don't have or blinded from] to analyze the verses in TWO perspectives to see the truth like upon further review one can see both the DUCK and RABBIT.
Btw did you see both the Duck and Rabbit in that image?

I bet if no one tell you there are two pictures in the above image you will see only one of the picture, either Duck or Rabbit and insist it is the truth.

It is the same with the Quran.
In the Quran there are the DUCK-RABBIT scenes in each verse, chapter, whole of Quran BUT as a believer Muslim the individual MUST only see either the DUCK or RABBIT but not both. This is because a believer is in such a desperate psychological state instinctively that do not allow him/her to encounter a dualistic or contradictory situation in a religious belief otherwise his/her faith will not work to deal with that psychological angst, anxieties, emptiness, despairs, etc.

It is easy for me who do not have any emotional and psychological attachment to the Quran and Islam to see the Quran objective and its two contradictory perspectives, i.e. GOOD-EVIL, DUCK-RABBIT perspectives.

I am trying to get you to see both perspectives [the matured spiritual perspective] but I know you and most Muslims cannot see both perspectives because of the inherent biasness due to selective attention, confirmation bias, inoculation theory, etc. that prevent the believer to view both perspectives.
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