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Old 07-27-2016, 05:06 PM
 
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Old 07-27-2016, 06:47 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Like many Muslims I object to the Death Penalty for any Crimes.

Are you Aware that most Islamic Nations have either abolished the death penalty or have not used it within the past 10 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capita...ent_by_country
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Old 07-27-2016, 10:58 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Personally I believe the focus should be on the ideology and not the believers.

As mentioned many times most of the evil prone Muslims who committed terrible evils and violence are unfortunately born with active evil tendencies not of their own doings.

One will note the limited effect of capital punishement or torture, where even with the reminder of a death penalty in relation to smuggling of drugs as a threat posted everywhere within sight, there will still be the hardcore attempting and risking to smuggle dangerous drugs in whatever way they can for various reasons.

Note the recent hoo-hah in Indonesia of the executions and soon expected executions for the convicted drug smugglers.

Quote:
Indonesia to ramp up executions of drug traffickers after hiatus
Posted 14 Jun 2016, 5:16pm
Indonesia plans to put 16 convicts to death after next month's Muslim Eid holiday, officially resuming executions in the country after a more than 12 month hiatus.
Indonesia to ramp up executions of drug traffickers after hiatus - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
What is worse with the ideology of Islam [in part] is Muslims are given an expeditious passage of Paradise when they kill non-Muslims who are threat* to Islam and Muslims. *The stipulated threats in the Quran are vague and ambiguous so any thing goes with the sanction of Allah.

So I believe the primary focus MUST be on the part of the ideology [evil laden elements] that is influencing, inspiring and catalyzing SOME evil prone Muslims [born unfortunately with active evil tendencies] to commit terrible evils and violence.
What necessary actions that are taken on evil prone Muslims are secondary.
 
Old 07-28-2016, 02:49 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,848 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Personally I believe the focus should be on the ideology and not the believers.
Personally, the focus should be on action whether it is just or wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
As mentioned many times most of the evil prone Muslims who committed terrible evils and violence are unfortunately born with active evil tendencies not of their own doings.
That is not the reason for their actions. All are born with such inherited tendencies. All are in need of controlling themselves. So-called evil prone haven't had the education to control themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
One will note the limited effect of capital punishement or torture, where even with the reminder of a death penalty in relation to smuggling of drugs as a threat posted everywhere within sight, there will still be the hardcore attempting and risking to smuggle dangerous drugs in whatever way they can for various reasons.
Threats work only on people who think about the threats. Education helps all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
What is worse with the ideology of Islam [in part] is Muslims are given an expeditious passage of Paradise when they kill non-Muslims who are threat* to Islam and Muslims.
This "threat" is not mentioned in the Qur'an at all. So no point in making things up about Islam.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
*The stipulated threats in the Quran are vague and ambiguous so any thing goes with the sanction of Allah.
In other words, there are no such threats in the Qur'an but only in peoples' heads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
So I believe the primary focus MUST be on the part of the ideology [evil laden elements] that is influencing, inspiring and catalyzing SOME evil prone Muslims [born unfortunately with active evil tendencies] to commit terrible evils and violence.
Wrong thinking!

There is "mention of evil laden elements" but the "evil action is not commanded" in the Qur'an. Thus assumed "evil laden elements" in the Qur'an are "justice laden elements" in reality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
What necessary actions that are taken on evil prone Muslims are secondary.
The only action on them that is necessary is getting rid of their inherited tendencies or else these will be activated into jihad each time a crusade is declared against them by Bush, Blair or Trump of this world.
 
Old 07-28-2016, 05:49 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,908 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Personally, the focus should be on action whether it is just or wrong.

That is not the reason for their actions. All are born with such inherited tendencies. All are in need of controlling themselves. So-called evil prone haven't had the education to control themselves.

Threats work only on people who think about the threats. Education helps all.

This "threat" is not mentioned in the Qur'an at all. So no point in making things up about Islam.

In other words, there are no such threats in the Qur'an but only in peoples' heads.

Wrong thinking!

There is "mention of evil laden elements" but the "evil action is not commanded" in the Qur'an. Thus assumed "evil laden elements" in the Qur'an are "justice laden elements" in reality.

The only action on them that is necessary is getting rid of their inherited tendencies or else these will be activated into jihad each time a crusade is declared against them by Bush, Blair or Trump of this world.
Muslims were slaughtering people left and right well before the USA even existed or Blair was even a thought.

Islam demands Muslims take over the world in the name of the sadist god allah. There are different ways to do this. Slaughter is one.

Muslims, as has been noted here, have free will. Even with evil tendencies, they can get counseling, turn themselves in, refuse to do the evil. But they don't. A supreme court judge once told me that in order for a person to be declared insane after committing murder, they must not have known what they did was wrong ... against the law. That insane person would not try to hide what they are doing. Muslim terrorists and their supporters do hide what they are doing. They are not insane....they are WILLFULLY EVIL. They CHOOSE to be evil. The cause is the evil ideology of Islam. The effect is terrorism and support of terrorism and mass rape and rioting and invading countries however works and all the rest.

Evil action IS commanded in the Quran and allah himself is an excellent example of very evil actions.

Education does not seem to help. Most of the terrorists are educated. They have been exposed to GOOD ideology. They refused it, like you have.
 
Old 07-28-2016, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,582,067 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Personally, the focus should be on action whether it is just or wrong.
You are so wrong and your suggestion is very ineffective.
Your ideas show you are suffering from the common maladies of problem solving.

Btw, do you understand the phrase chronic fire-fighting and root cause, i.e. if one do not deal with only keep focusing on the surface fires without extinguishing the root cause of the fire, the fire will keep happening and one has to keep fighting fires.

So whenever the action is wrong we must deal with the root cause of the Quran-inspired-violence.

Quote:
That is not the reason for their actions. All are born with such inherited tendencies. All are in need of controlling themselves. So-called evil prone haven't had the education to control themselves.
As I had mentioned there is no way of controlling the hardcore [and their near degrees] cases and that is why we have prisons and psychiatric prison and mental hospitals.
Don't insult your own intelligence! Think and educate yourself on human nature and the hardcore perversions.
Once the neural [neurons-nerves] circuit are damage to a certain extent it is impossible to cure the person back to normal.
What you are suggesting may be applicable to the borderline cases. If you can help 5% of 20% of evil prone there is still ~225 million of evil prone around the world.

Quote:
Threats work only on people who think about the threats. Education helps all.
As pointed out above, there is a % of whom no amount of education will change them.
There is so much evidence in the world to support this point where rehabilitation do not work at all. Suggest you read up on such research.

Quote:
This "threat" is not mentioned in the Qur'an at all. So no point in making things up about Islam.
Note there are many verses in the Quran where Muslims are warned disbelievers will do what it take to make Muslims disbelieve.

Continuum:*The stipulated threats in the Quran are vague and ambiguous so any thing goes with the sanction of Allah.
Quote:
In other words, there are no such threats in the Qur'an but only in peoples' heads.
I have explained in another post. The threats exist but certain terms are vague and ambiguous.

Quote:
Wrong thinking!
There is "mention of evil laden elements" but the "evil action is not commanded" in the Qur'an. Thus assumed "evil laden elements" in the Qur'an are "justice laden elements" in reality.
The evil laden elements in the Quran are like bullets which are already loaded in a gun with triggered pulled. These guns are made ready for the evil prone Muslims [a potential pool of 300 millions] not the 80% good Muslims. The results and evidence to support my point is so glaring, one example, [28,889] which has increased from the day before . What kind of religion has such a statistics.



Quote:
The only action on them that is necessary is getting rid of their inherited tendencies or else these will be activated into jihad each time a crusade is declared against them by Bush, Blair or Trump of this world.
These are your some of the most stupid [no application of intelligence] statements.
I have explained scientifically why it is extremely difficult or quite impossible to get rid of the inherited evil tendencies in SOME [20%] of humans. You have to educate yourself on neuroscience, neuro-psychiatry and all other relevant knowledge on this issue.

It is more easier to get rid or suppressed the ideology like how humanity has got rid of Nazism, and curtailed fascism, communism and other evil ideology.
Btw, I am not say the ideology of Islam is totally evil, rather part of it is very evil and malignant when exposed to the natural 20% of evil prone Muslims.

Some aspect of the Bush, Blair or Trump views may be evil but theirs are not from an all powerful God whose ideology is immutable. The decisions of Bush, Blair and Trump has been heavily criticized by the rest of humanity and their views are subject to possible changes.
 
Old 07-28-2016, 11:40 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,944 times
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[quote=Continuum;44934761]
Quote:
You are so wrong and your suggestion is very ineffective.
Your ideas show you are suffering from the common maladies of problem solving.

Btw, do you understand the phrase chronic fire-fighting and root cause, i.e. if one do not deal with only keep focusing on the surface fires without extinguishing the root cause of the fire, the fire will keep happening and one has to keep fighting fires.
Koran should be tried first,
For that reason, in the dissemination of ideas of terrorism
And address the Muslims in the Koran declares that he refuses
And moving to the worship of the God of love in the pagan
Because he is better than the God of Mohammed terrorist
 
Old 07-29-2016, 01:44 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,582,067 times
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[quote=mahasn sawresho;44936350]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post

Koran should be tried first,
For that reason, in the dissemination of ideas of terrorism
And address the Muslims in the Koran declares that he refuses
And moving to the worship of the God of love in the pagan
Because he is better than the God of Mohammed terrorist
Agree in a way.
A god of love in whatever form, either monotheism or even idolatry is any time better than a supposedly monotheistic God which introduced evil laden elements in its holy texts and made them immutable.

In any case any holy texts that has evil laden elements without an absolute moral maxim to override whatever evil elements cannot be from a God [if exists] but rather such unrestraint evil elements are included by human[s].
 
Old 07-29-2016, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
Reputation: 7407
[quote=Continuum;44936745]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
Agree in a way.
A god of love in whatever form, either monotheism or even idolatry is any time better than a supposedly monotheistic God which introduced evil laden elements in its holy texts and made them immutable.

In any case any holy texts that has evil laden elements without an absolute moral maxim to override whatever evil elements cannot be from a God [if exists] but rather such unrestraint evil elements are included by human[s].
What is the purpose of the Qur'an?


Before that can be answered one needs to answer the following questions.

What is Mankind?

Why was mankind created?

What is the purpose of Man?

What does man need in order to fulfill his purpose through his own free will and yet have full responsibility for his choices?

How wide of a range of choice is required in order to have true free choice?


My own thoughts are that to have free choice we must be aware of all possibilities and all possible outcomes. While we will never become aware of all, all must be available. Where and how we search is our own responsibility. In order to have actual free will we can not have absolute answers given, but rather be given the tools to do our own investigating and verification. We our self have the responsibility to search out what we must learn and how to achieve it. Because it is our responsibility we are given suggestions and guides along with possible consequences. That is what I see the Qur'an as doing, rather than being a legalistic set of absolute commands.
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Old 07-29-2016, 09:33 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,944 times
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[quote=Woodrow LI;44939483]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post

Quote:
What is the purpose of the Qur'an?
From your homework that you provide us with the purpose of the Koran
and after that beginning we discuss in this aspect
I submit to you the following questions
What the message do the claimed the Koran
are there in Koran the word love or a genuine peace




Quote:
Before that can be answered one needs to answer the following questions.

What is Mankind?

Why was mankind created?

What is the purpose of Man?
Show us your understanding of the Koran
We discuss these issues
You must be supported by your words from the Koran

Quote:
What does man need in order to fulfill his purpose through his own free will and yet have full responsibility for his choices?

How wide of a range of choice is required in order to have true free choice?


My own thoughts are that to have free choice we must be aware of all possibilities and all possible outcomes. While we will never become aware of all, all must be available. Where and how we search is our own responsibility. In order to have actual free will we can not have absolute answers given, but rather be given the tools to do our own investigating and verification. We our self have the responsibility to search out what we must learn and how to achieve it. Because it is our responsibility we are given suggestions and guides along with possible consequences. That is what I see the Qur'an as doing, rather than being a legalistic set of absolute commands.
Freedom of choice can be discussed, but also Is Islam knows this freedom
It threads of thought
And be answered sequentially comfortable
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