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Old 07-30-2016, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,582,753 times
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Woodrow LI insisted in many postings there are no "commands" from Allah in the Quran.
Here is one verse where it stated Muslims must submit to Allah's commands.
76: 24. So submit patiently to thy Lord's command, and obey not of them [infidels] any guilty one or disbeliever.
liḥuk'mi لِحُكْمِ ح ك م = command
The word "command" appears 121 times in the Pickthall translation.

Any counter views to the above?
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Old 07-31-2016, 03:46 PM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,037,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Woodrow LI insisted in many postings there are no "commands" from Allah in the Quran.
Here is one verse where it stated Muslims must submit to Allah's commands.
76: 24. So submit patiently to thy Lord's command, and obey not of them [infidels] any guilty one or disbeliever.
liḥuk'mi لِحُكْمِ ح ك م = command
The word "command" appears 121 times in the Pickthall translation.

Any counter views to the above?
I am not sure where and how Woodrow LI said anything about there being no commands from Allah but I can remember him saying that the Qur'an is not a Book of Commands (which meant like 10 Commandments or 600 Commandments) but a Book of Guidance.

There are at least 2 words in the Arabic Qur'an that are often translated as "command"; "hukm" and "amr".

Translators use these words interchangeably. For example, Pickthall translates "hukm" in 76:24 as well as "amr" in 7:54 as "command". The "hukm" in 76:24 is like an Order or Judgment from a court for a specific case.

In 76:24, further "hukm" is meant to be further "order", "decision" or "decree" from Allah. This means there will be further verses (ongoing revelation of the Qur'an at the time) in which would be decision, judgment, order, decree from Allah. Until the further verses, "hold on patiently and do not obey any sinner and kafir".
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Old 07-31-2016, 10:55 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,582,753 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
I am not sure where and how Woodrow LI said anything about there being no commands from Allah but I can remember him saying that the Qur'an is not a Book of Commands (which meant like 10 Commandments or 600 Commandments) but a Book of Guidance.

There are at least 2 words in the Arabic Qur'an that are often translated as "command"; "hukm" and "amr".

Translators use these words interchangeably. For example, Pickthall translates "hukm" in 76:24 as well as "amr" in 7:54 as "command". The "hukm" in 76:24 is like an Order or Judgment from a court for a specific case.

In 76:24, further "hukm" is meant to be further "order", "decision" or "decree" from Allah. This means there will be further verses (ongoing revelation of the Qur'an at the time) in which would be decision, judgment, order, decree from Allah. Until the further verses, "hold on patiently and do not obey any sinner and kafir".
Woodrow LI's view "the Qur'an is not a Book of Commands" is merely a deflection to absolve Islam from the evil acts of the Muslims of ISIS and other Muslims who obey the commands of Allah within the Quran.

Re OP, my point is there are 'commands' that must be followed as an obligation of a Muslim to comply with the terms and conditions of the covenant [contract] he had entered into [signed] with Allah.

I am raising the recent few points as I am reading through the Quran [at one go] at present and highlighting more notes therein. As I stated since I read it chronologically I can read rather fast. By now I have read it more than 60 times already. My limitation is I don't have a super memory like some Hafiz and others, so I have to rely on the computer to sort similar related verses.
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Old 08-01-2016, 01:48 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,037,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Woodrow LI's view "the Qur'an is not a Book of Commands" is merely a deflection to absolve Islam from the evil acts of the Muslims of ISIS and other Muslims who obey the commands of Allah within the Quran.
In that case, Woodrow LI is correct. Evil acts of ISIS are not Islam.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Re OP, my point is there are 'commands' that must be followed as an obligation of a Muslim to comply with the terms and conditions of the covenant [contract] he had entered into [signed] with Allah.
These commands are not additional commands to the commands that were given before the Qur'an. In fact, there is reduction in the commands (such as for Sabbath) given at Sinai to the Israelites. Therefore, the Qur'an is the Book of Guidance and a Reminder of what went before it.

Quote:
I am raising the recent few points as I am reading through the Quran [at one go] at present and highlighting more notes therein. As I stated since I read it chronologically I can read rather fast. By now I have read it more than 60 times already. My limitation is I don't have a super memory like some Hafiz and others, so I have to rely on the computer to sort similar related verses.
In that case, you need to put all the verses together that you think are the "commands" on one issue and then understand the issue and the commands collectively rather than take a rabbit out of the hat and say, "see this rabbit has teeth", unless of course you are interested in the same rabbit as ISIS are interested in and you use all the ducks in the bath only.
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Old 08-01-2016, 07:41 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,582,753 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
In that case, Woodrow LI is correct. Evil acts of ISIS are not Islam.
There are two points here and you have conflated them.

The first point is there are commands from Allah as in 76:24 which a Muslim must submit to and thus to obey. Therefore any one who claim there are no commands in the Quran is wrong, thus Woodrow LI is wrong on this point.

The Muslims of ISIS and the other evil prone Muslims are following the commands of Allah in Quran which results in terrible evils and violence on humanity.
WHO ARE YOU to say their acts in accordance to the Quran [& Ahadith aligned with Quran] are wrong. Are you Allah or his partner?

Quote:
These commands are not additional commands to the commands that were given before the Qur'an. In fact, there is reduction in the commands (such as for Sabbath) given at Sinai to the Israelites. Therefore, the Qur'an is the Book of Guidance and a Reminder of what went before it.
You are deflecting from the main point which is 'There are commands of Allah in the Quran which must be obeyed'. The Quran is primarily a reminder for Muslims to obey Allah commands. The Quran as a Book of Guidance is secondary because if it is merely a guide then Muslims has options not to follow any command of Allah based on their discretions.

I don't believe the Quran has any thing to do with the Torah and Injil at all. It was either Muhammad and/or a group of humans who plagiarize shoddily from the Torah and Injil to repackage a supposedly holy text for their own personal vested interests. Because it was shoddily compiled without much thinking and wisdom, its evil laden verses influenced and inspired SOME evil prone Muslims to commit terrible evils and violence against non-Muslims and other Muslims. Here is merely one class of evidence of evils to support my claim;
[28,935] if I am not mistaken the total has increased from yesterday's total.

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Old 08-04-2016, 05:34 PM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,037,403 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The first point is there are commands from Allah as in 76:24 which a Muslim must submit to and thus to obey. Therefore any one who claim there are no commands in the Quran is wrong, thus Woodrow LI is wrong on this point.
Did Woodrow LI claim that there are no commands in the Qur'an or he merely stated that the Qur'an is not a book of commands but a book of guidance?

Also, which command is in question here; hukm or amr? (both are translated as command in English translations)
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Old 08-07-2016, 06:54 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,279,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Did Woodrow LI claim that there are no commands in the Qur'an or he merely stated that the Qur'an is not a book of commands but a book of guidance?

Also, which command is in question here; hukm or amr? (both are translated as command in English translations)
Some of the things I did say several times:

The Qur'an is not a book of commands, it is book of Guidance.

There are very few if any actual commands in the Qur'an.

Single ayyats should not be considered commandments.
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