U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-08-2016, 01:45 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,586,785 times
Reputation: 461

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
This comment is invented by an unbeliever.
There are a lot of evidence and possibilities that Islam and the Quran was invented a man or a group of people.

Why believers want to say otherwise is because they MUST be bias to the their belief which is providing sanity to their psyche.

Quote:
Why aren't the majority doing evil acts? Let me guess; there are no evil acts commanded in the ideology. And you can't think that far.
As usual I have explained this many times.
You must get out of this cycle of ignorance.
It is human nature that human behaviors exist within a range and continuum from minority to majority or average.
Take human heights for example, there will be a majority of certain height range and a small percentile within the extreme heights.
It is the same with human exposure to evils and violence where only a small percentile who are evil prone will be influenced by evil laden elements.
It is the same with pornography, not every one who is exposed to pornography even on a regular basis will turn out to be sexual maniacs, rapists, sexual predators, etc.

Quote:
Attacks on Muslims in their own counties is to be blamed for evil acts of a minority. The immutable ideology should be praised for the 80% (your figure) Muslims being peaceful.
The problem is with your shallow thinking and do not reflect deeply into human nature.

Note for example, the Christians are attacked from all corners and in many aspects of society especially in Muslim majority countries and even in Christian majority countries [e.g. the Priest in Normandy]. Why is it that a minority do not take up arms to kill Muslims wherever they find them?

It is the same with other religions where believers do not refer to the holy texts to take revenge on Muslims or other religion to kill them like crazy.

Reflect on this!! why it is only the Muslims [the evil prone] that go on such extensive killing sprees [see the counter below] in killing innocent humans merely because they are non-Muslims. And also other Muslims who are deemed apostates or hypocrites. Why? Why? Why?



Wake Up!

Quote:
Ultimately? You are still heading fast towards the ultimate. Even you will find out the ultimate reality ultimately.
There is no ultimate within reality. There is nothing to know when there is no more "I know" to know.
Quote:
Exactly! They are not breaking the covenant.
Exactly especially when the covenant include terms and conditions that had evil laden elements and trigger the pious Muslims to comply with them as a duty of being a true Muslim destined to Paradise.

Quote:
They don't even know much about the covenant. The pious believers know the bounds of their covenant and they do not go behind those limits set in the covenant.
To them the covenant is not explicit but implicit.
Note the experts who influenced the followers read the Quran, [Ahadith, Sunnah, Sira] all the time and thus they are implicitly driven by the terms and conditions of the covenant in exchange for eternal life in Paradise.
In the Quran, Allah stated 'if you do this and do that [some happened to be evil laden], then you will go to Paradise and rewarded greatly'.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-08-2016, 02:13 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,040,723 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Unfortunately there are evil laden elements in the Quran which appeal to the naturally born evil prone Muslims.
Everyone is born with evil potential. ALL will be attracted if there were evil laden verses in the Qur'an.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Wars [evil by itself] has existed since human emerged on Earth. Just or unjust, a wise holy text should NEVER include any war elements at all. If any, then it must be heavily qualified with an overriding absolute moral maxim on killing.
An absolute moral maxim hasn't stopped the wars. WWI and WWII were not stopped by an absolute moral maxim. There is a big hole in your argument but you can't see it in your blindness towards this fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The evil prone see the very existence of non-believers as a threat to Islam and the evil laden verses in the Quran influenced and inspired them to fight the non-believers.
Nonsense! They see attacks on their countries by non-believers as threat to them and other Muslims.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-08-2016, 08:47 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,586,785 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Everyone is born with evil potential. ALL will be attracted if there were evil laden verses in the Qur'an.
Your views above glaringly exposed your ignorance of human nature of individuals and the collective.

You don't seem to understand the difference between dormant potential and realized/actualized potential.

I have been arguing as guided by the Principles of Normal Distribution there will be approximately 20% of all human who has active evil tendencies whereas the evil tendencies of the 80% are dormant.
It is only the approximated 20% who has active evil tendencies who will be triggered to commit evils when exposed to evil laden elements.

I strongly suggest you increase and uplift your education and knowledge on this subject.
Quote:
An absolute moral maxim hasn't stopped the wars. WWI and WWII were not stopped by an absolute moral maxim. There is a big hole in your argument but you can't see it in your blindness towards this fact.
Again you are ignorant of how an effective framework and system of morality and ethics should work. Note I have a very strong background in the Philosophy of Morality and Ethics.


The model of an effective framework and system of morality and ethics MUST have an absolute moral maxim especially on the most critical evil, i.e. killing of another human being.
However it is understood this perfect ideal will not be met because of varying practical conditions.
This is why the implicit absolute moral maxim did not prevent WW1 and WWWII from starting, but it did stop both wars and that is a fact.
Then guided by the implicit absolute moral maxim in this case, humanity as a whole is making attempt to prevent wars as much as possible and so far we have got more than almost 70 years without a World War.

The problem with Islam is the Quran is immutable and do not contain any absolute moral maxim on 'killing human beings'.
Because it is immutable for Allah, there is no way to change and include an absolute moral maxim on killing into Islam and the Quran.
Thus, as far as the Quran and Islam is concerned there is no room for improvement to the highest standard of morality re killing.

It is because of the lack of an absolute moral maxim on killing in Islam that is leading SOME Muslims to create more and more wars on non-Muslims and other Muslims with the potential of exterminating the human species when these SOME evil prone Muslims get access to Weapons of Mass Destructions.

If you want to argue on the concept of the absolute moral maxim, I suggest you educate and update yourself on the Philosophy of Ethics. It is like to be a good competent professional Engineer you must have the necessary basic degree in Engineering together with relevant experiences and professional qualifications.

You can keep insisting the moderate 80% Muslims will not be evils and violence but you keep ignoring the potential of the 20% of evil prone Muslim who could possibly exterminate the human species because they love death more that we love life.

Quote:
Nonsense! They see attacks on their countries by non-believers as threat to them and other Muslims.
Again you are exposing your ignorance.
I have informed you many times, evil prone Muslims used all sorts of excuses [wars, politics, culture, social, economics, etc.] in an attempt to dominate others because they were brainwashed Islam is the most superior religion that will conquer all religions and non-Muslims are merely a piece of sh:t. [if you have read the Quran thoroughly you should have noted this point]. You dare to deny??

Last edited by Continuum; 08-08-2016 at 08:59 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2016, 01:52 PM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,040,723 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Everyone is born with evil potential. ALL will be attracted if there were evil laden verses in the Qur'an.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Your views above glaringly exposed your ignorance of human nature of individuals and the collective.

You don't seem to understand the difference between dormant potential and realized/actualized potential.
Then I have exposed your ignorance about the Qur'an and its verses having no adverse effect on evil potential of 80% (your figure) of Muslims because there are no evil laden verses in the Qur'an to awaken their dormant evil potential.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2016, 10:40 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,586,785 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Then I have exposed your ignorance about the Qur'an and its verses having no adverse effect on evil potential of 80% (your figure) of Muslims because there are no evil laden verses in the Qur'an to awaken their dormant evil potential.
There are verses [DUCK-RABBIT] in the Quran that influenced a percentile of Muslims who are unfortunately born with active evil tendencies to commit terrible evils and violence.

This is proven with real evidences, i.e. one set of such evidences is the following; [28,984]
very soon it will be 29,000!!



Basically there are 3,400++ of the 6,236 verses, i.e. >55% which contain evil laden elements of some degrees [low and high]. The most basic and primal evil element is the differentiation of Muslims [superior] from non-Muslims [most inferior and worst of all creatures] via the invocation of the primal us versus them impulse in the most evil manner where non-Muslims are condemned like pieces of sh:t. The above is the primary ground for this;
Genocide -Islam's View
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-13-2016, 03:40 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,040,723 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
There are verses [DUCK-RABBIT] in the Quran that influenced a percentile of Muslims who are unfortunately born with active evil tendencies to commit terrible evils and violence.
Potential to do good or do evil is not always active. The evil potential as well as good potential is activated by the person himself/herself. There is only one reason behind activation of good potential; education. But there are two reasons behind activation of evil potential; adverse education and ignorance. Adverse education is coaxing someone to do evil and ignorance when someone is not educated properly. Adam's son had killed his brother through ignorance. I am not doing evil because of good education.

I have studied the Qur'an deeply and the Qur'an has taught me to do good and not to do evil.

It is the wisdom in the Qur'an that the most evil perceived element in the Qur'an, in which infidels were supposed to be killed wherever they were to be found, resulted in peace for the next 1400 years in Mecca without killing any infidel there.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-13-2016, 11:34 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,586,785 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Potential to do good or do evil is not always active. The evil potential as well as good potential is activated by the person himself/herself. There is only one reason behind activation of good potential; education. But there are two reasons behind activation of evil potential; adverse education and ignorance. Adverse education is coaxing someone to do evil and ignorance when someone is not educated properly. Adam's son had killed his brother through ignorance. I am not doing evil because of good education.

I have studied the Qur'an deeply and the Qur'an has taught me to do good and not to do evil.

It is the wisdom in the Qur'an that the most evil perceived element in the Qur'an, in which infidels were supposed to be killed wherever they were to be found, resulted in peace for the next 1400 years in Mecca without killing any infidel there.
You are very ignorant of human nature in this case.

ALL human beings by virtue of a generic DNA has the same potential for good, evil and whatever it takes to be human.

I have already told you many times, appx. 20% of humans are born with active evil tendencies at birth due to bad wirings of the brain neurons and other reasons. This is supported by the fact that such people with evil tendencies exists. Many people who do evil do not activate such evil themselves but are compelled by the wrong wirings in their brain.
For example, those very rich celebrities who are kleptomaniacs who are compelled to steal by their subsconcious wrongly wired brain definitely do not need to steal those cheap items.
There are many who commit evils and know that their compulsion are beyond their control.
It is true education and counselling may help the borderline, say 5% of cases but it cannot help the rest of the hardcore cases.

You are always using yourself as an example to represent the range of 7 billions people on Earth. This is a very unintelligent view.

Peace in Mecca? when almost all non-Muslims are forced out of the Mecca since 1,400 years ago.
Note this again which happen all over the world,


Your Khasmir would have been more peaceful if Islam [evil in part] had not forced itself into India.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-14-2016, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,294,416 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
There are verses [DUCK-RABBIT] in the Quran that influenced a percentile of Muslims who are unfortunately born with active evil tendencies to commit terrible evils and violence.

This is proven with real evidences, i.e. one set of such evidences is the following; [28,984]
very soon it will be 29,000!!



Basically there are 3,400++ of the 6,236 verses, i.e. >55% which contain evil laden elements of some degrees [low and high]. The most basic and primal evil element is the differentiation of Muslims [superior] from non-Muslims [most inferior and worst of all creatures] via the invocation of the primal us versus them impulse in the most evil manner where non-Muslims are condemned like pieces of sh:t. The above is the primary ground for this;
Genocide -Islam's View
While you are showing a correlation between the Qur'an and Muslim Terrorists. correlation does not prove causation. There is also a correlation between the appearance of green grass in the spring time and the arrival of robins but that does not mean green grass causes robins.

There is also another correlation between Muslim terrorists and that is most are from former British, French and Spanish colonies (Morocco, Algeria, Libya, Tunisia, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Pakistan and Bangladesh and did not achieve independence until the mid 1900s. Even today there is still much anger in those nations against the UK, France and Spain which incidentally seem to receive the majority of Terrorist attacks outside the ISIS attacks against other Muslim in Iraq, Syria and Lebanon.

Possibly being recent colonies is the cause of the Terrorist attacks in those Nations not the Qur'an. something to think about, although they present a minority of the world's Muslims they seem to produce the majority of the terrorists. If the Qur'an was the source of terrorism, one should find nearly the same percentage of the population being terrorists in every Islamic Nation. But that is not happening. Most of the Muslim nations have from none to very few Terrorists. The majority of the terrorists having roots or close ties with the 9 Nations I named.

If the Quran is the cause there should be nearly identical percentages of Terrorists in every Islamic Nation.
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-14-2016, 10:23 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,586,785 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
While you are showing a correlation between the Qur'an and Muslim Terrorists. correlation does not prove causation. There is also a correlation between the appearance of green grass in the spring time and the arrival of robins but that does not mean green grass causes robins.

There is also another correlation between Muslim terrorists and that is most are from former British, French and Spanish colonies (Morocco, Algeria, Libya, Tunisia, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Pakistan and Bangladesh and did not achieve independence until the mid 1900s. Even today there is still much anger in those nations against the UK, France and Spain which incidentally seem to receive the majority of Terrorist attacks outside the ISIS attacks against other Muslim in Iraq, Syria and Lebanon.

Possibly being recent colonies is the cause of the Terrorist attacks in those Nations not the Qur'an. something to think about, although they present a minority of the world's Muslims they seem to produce the majority of the terrorists. If the Qur'an was the source of terrorism, one should find nearly the same percentage of the population being terrorists in every Islamic Nation. But that is not happening. Most of the Muslim nations have from none to very few Terrorists. The majority of the terrorists having roots or close ties with the 9 Nations I named.
I agree in principle correlation do not mean causation.
The onus is on me to prove there is a direct causation from Islam to the terrible evils and violence committed by the Muslim terrorists.
I have already presented a general hypothesis for the above and the elements of the hypothesis is undeniable. One obvious point is the terrorists are quoting from the Quran [& Ahadith] and I have presented tons of justification to support my hypothesis.
Btw, what I have presented is merely say 20% of justifications, there are still 80% of justifications I have not presented till I present the full jigsaw puzzle.

Quote:
If the Quran is the cause there should be nearly identical percentages of Terrorists in every Islamic Nation.
That identical percentages is impossible because there are so many different conditions within each Islamic Nations, Islamic groups and community.
But one thing is for sure, it is 100% certain there will be some degree of evils and violence wherever there are a sufficient large population of Muslims. Wherever it starts it will get worse and worse in time. Note how the number of evil and violent incidents are increasing in the USA since 911.
One indicator [amongst others] is the number and % of Muslimah wearing the hijab.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-15-2016, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,294,416 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I agree in principle correlation do not mean causation.
The onus is on me to prove there is a direct causation from Islam to the terrible evils and violence committed by the Muslim terrorists.
I have already presented a general hypothesis for the above and the elements of the hypothesis is undeniable. One obvious point is the terrorists are quoting from the Quran [& Ahadith] and I have presented tons of justification to support my hypothesis.
Btw, what I have presented is merely say 20% of justifications, there are still 80% of justifications I have not presented till I present the full jigsaw puzzle.

That identical percentages is impossible because there are so many different conditions within each Islamic Nations, Islamic groups and community.
But one thing is for sure, it is 100% certain there will be some degree of evils and violence wherever there are a sufficient large population of Muslims. Wherever it starts it will get worse and worse in time. Note how the number of evil and violent incidents are increasing in the USA since 911.
One indicator [amongst others] is the number and % of Muslimah wearing the hijab.
Identical percentages are impossible because the Qur'an is not the primary cause. As you state conditions differ within each nation. But one constant is that there will be virtually identical exposure to the Qur'an. The 9 nations that produce the majority of terrorists must have a common condition other then the Qur'an and that is they are all former colonies with hatred towards their former colonizers. With the majority of their terrorism acts being directed towards their former colonizers.. Muslim Terrorists in France seem to nearly always come from their former colonies. Terrorism in the UK tends to come from their former colonies on the Indian Sub continent. (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Kashmir) which are the 2 nations most frequently hit by terrorist attacks. Outside of the Mideastern Islamic Nations which are under constant terrorism acts by ISIS.
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top