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Old 08-02-2016, 03:00 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Chapter 39:
30. Lo! Thou [infidels] wilt die, and lo! They [partners] will die;
31. Then lo! on the Day of Resurrection, before your Lord ye will dispute.
32. And who [which infidel] doth greater wrong than he [the infidel] who telleth a lie against Allah, and denieth the truth when it reacheth him? Will not the home of disbelievers [infidels] be in hell?
33. And whoso [Muslim] bringeth the truth and believeth therein. Such [Muslims] are the dutiful.
34. They [Muslims] shall have what they will of their Lord's bounty. That is the reward of the good:
35. That Allah will remit [l-lahu اللَّهُ ا ل ه remove, efface, absolves] from them [Muslims] the worst of what they did, and will pay them [Muslims] for reward the best they used to do.
Based on the above, Allah will absolves all including the worst [except unpardonable] sins committed by a Muslim and reward them accordingly in Paradise.

Agree with the above views?
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Old 08-02-2016, 03:05 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Note also 29:7
29:7. And as for those [Muslims] who believe and do good works, We shall remit from them [Muslims] their evil deeds and shall repay them the best that they [Muslims] did.
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Old 08-02-2016, 04:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Note also 29:7
29:7. And as for those [Muslims] who believe and do good works, We shall remit from them [Muslims] their evil deeds and shall repay them the best that they [Muslims] did.
When reading the above verse, do not ignore:

[7.8] And the measuring out on that day will be just; then as for him whose measure (of good deeds) is heavy, those are they who shall be successful.

On that day, when the deeds go on the scale to be measured, the measure of good deeds will be heavy for those who believe and do good words. That means the less minor deeds will be cancelled by so much more of the good deeds. Do the maths and you have the total answer.

This is the only just way to salvation for all sinning human beings.
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Old 08-02-2016, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
When reading the above verse, do not ignore:

[7.8] And the measuring out on that day will be just; then as for him whose measure (of good deeds) is heavy, those are they who shall be successful.

On that day, when the deeds go on the scale to be measured, the measure of good deeds will be heavy for those who believe and do good words. That means the less minor deeds will be cancelled by so much more of the good deeds. Do the maths and you have the total answer.

This is the only just way to salvation for all sinning human beings.
I am very aware of that.

The point here is for the RABBIT verses, they are "good" in the eyes of Allah and thus when the act out these 'RABBIT' [evil laden] verses they will accumulate merits to increase their weighting and their scale will be heavy when measured on J-DAY an Decision Day.

It is easily noted those evil prone who commit terrible evils and violence do not commit the unpardonable sin of attributing and accepting partners, idols and deities in relation to Allah. This is very obvious from their statements made and acts of destroying idols [Bamiyan Buddha statues, etc.] and cultural genocides.

Therefore all pardonable sins of the evil prone will be wiped out [remitted] on J-DAY as per 39:35 and they will be greatly rewarded in accordance to what they sowed on Earth, e.g. martyrdom.
Since such a set of acts by these evil prone Muslims attract such great rewards, the evil prone Muslims [pool of 300 million] will naturally continue to do what is necessary to be good and true Muslims from their 'RABBIT' [evil laden] perspectives.

Such great rewards in Paradise of the evil prone may be attract a small percentage [%] otherwise good Muslims to commit terrible evils and violence and again the evidence is glaring. There are so many suicide bombers and killer who were reported by the parents, relatives and friends to be goody-two-shoes and extremely good people until the suddenly get serious with their religion.
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Old 08-06-2016, 08:54 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I am very aware of that.

The point here is for the RABBIT verses, they are "good" in the eyes of Allah and thus when the act out these 'RABBIT' [evil laden] verses they will accumulate merits to increase their weighting and their scale will be heavy when measured on J-DAY an Decision Day.
There are no evil verses in the Qur'an. Only the evil prone or the kuffar think they are evil laden verses. This is why good Muslims do not do evil acts.

Quote:
It is easily noted those evil prone who commit terrible evils and violence do not commit the unpardonable sin of attributing and accepting partners, idols and deities in relation to Allah. This is very obvious from their statements made and acts of destroying idols [Bamiyan Buddha statues, etc.] and cultural genocides.
When they kill innocent people, they site attacks on their countries as a reason for their actions. When they quote any verse out of context, they know their enemies have no interest in the Qur'an. They do so only to get more Muslims on their side. People like me do not buy it but you do buy it and the others lacking knowledge about the Qur'anic principles buy it. And that is the fact of the matter!

Quote:
Therefore all pardonable sins of the evil prone will be wiped out [remitted] on J-DAY as per 39:35 and they will be greatly rewarded in accordance to what they sowed on Earth, e.g. martyrdom.
Since such a set of acts by these evil prone Muslims attract such great rewards, the evil prone Muslims [pool of 300 million] will naturally continue to do what is necessary to be good and true Muslims from their 'RABBIT' [evil laden] perspectives.
It is such approval in ignorance from the ignorant non-Muslims that keeps them going. If 80% (your figure) say they are wrong, you say they are right. Fine! Keep helping yourself. 80% of Muslims can't help you if you insist to be ignorant about the verses of the Qur'an and about 80%.

Quote:
Such great rewards in Paradise of the evil prone may be attract a small percentage [%] otherwise good Muslims to commit terrible evils and violence and again the evidence is glaring. There are so many suicide bombers and killer who were reported by the parents, relatives and friends to be goody-two-shoes and extremely good people until the suddenly get serious with their religion.
It's pathetic of you to suggest that 80% of Muslims and the parents who report the evil ones are not serious about their religion.
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Old 08-06-2016, 07:16 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Just because we are Muslim does not mean we get a free pass.

all (Muslims and Non-Muslims) will be punished for their transgressions. The Punishment may be here on earth during our life time, it may be during the period we are in the grave, it may be in the hereafter or in any combination of the 3. It will be a fair punishment with many factors weihed such as our intent, Our level of knowledge that we were doing wrong, How much personal responsibility we are accountable for etc. The type, level and duration will also be reduced in accordance with the level of good we have done. Hell has levels, it is quite likely the Qur'an only speaks of the lowest level (The most severe) We do not know much about the higher levels, some even speculate that the highest level is very similar to our current life.

The same also goes for the good we do all people Muslim and non-Muslim will be rewarded for the good they do, even for what they intended to do, but did not do for reasons beyond their control.
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Old 08-07-2016, 12:39 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
There are no evil verses in the Qur'an. Only the evil prone or the kuffar think they are evil laden verses. This is why good Muslims do not do evil acts.
Note my point is there are evil laden verses in the Quran. That is very obvious with verses loaded with elements of wars, fighting, rapes, ransom, and other evil elements phrased with ambiguous and vague terms.
It is a fact evil laden verses exists in the Quran and evil prone Muslims are influenced and inspired by these evil elements and commit terrible evils and violence. The proof of this is so glaring, what is there to deny? Here is the proofs [28,964].



The fact that the good Muslims are not triggered by these evil laden elements is something very natural. so that is not an issue. Even then some of the borderline cases of good Muslims do turn evil when stressed.

Point is we cannot deny the facts that evil prone Muslims [born naturally] are influenced by evil laden elements in the Quran to commit real terrible evils and violence on non-Muslims and other Muslims.

Quote:
When they kill innocent people, they site attacks on their countries as a reason for their actions. When they quote any verse out of context, they know their enemies have no interest in the Qur'an. They do so only to get more Muslims on their side. People like me do not buy it but you do buy it and the others lacking knowledge about the Qur'anic principles buy it. And that is the fact of the matter!
The point here is the evil ethos exists partly [not wholly] and inherently within the Quran and Islam.

You are very ignorant [as expected because as a believer you MUST be bias] and keep repeating it is political reasons as the main reason for the evils committed by SOME evil prone Muslims.
Note the reality is there is a BIG RANGE of evils [political, social, economics, cultural, etc.] committed by evil prone Muslims. Note the anti culture, education, scientific discoveries by non-Muslims that these Muslims are attacking. They had nothing to do with 'attacks on their countries'.

One of the main reason is the Quran [partly] has generated that the very existence of non-Muslim is a threat to Islam and as such has to be dealt with aggressively and violently. This feed the evil prone Muslims to find all sorts of excuses to attack non-Muslims, and political issues are the easiest albeit they are secondary. The main reason is basically Islam [in part, not whole] just cannot tolerate the existence of whatever that is not-Islam.

Quote:
It is such approval in ignorance from the ignorant non-Muslims that keeps them going. If 80% (your figure) say they are wrong, you say they are right. Fine! Keep helping yourself. 80% of Muslims can't help you if you insist to be ignorant about the verses of the Qur'an and about 80%.
I don't believe the 80% of supposedly good Muslims can help to prevent the evils and violence from 20% of evil prone who are influenced and inspired by the evil laden elements in the Quran.

In fact, in one sense, the 80% of good Muslims are indirectly complicit to the evils committed by the evil prone Muslims and they cannot do anything about it. First the Quran is immutable and the 80% will cannot do anything about the evil laden elements in the Quran except to be blind to them.

The very existence of 80% of 1.5 billion good Muslims reinforce and embolden the evil prone Muslims to continue to commit their evils without much hope of abatement [at present]. See the above statistics and it rising numbers by the day .

Quote:
It's pathetic of you to suggest that 80% of Muslims and the parents who report the evil ones are not serious about their religion.
You are off point here. I DID NOT say such things.
What I said was, the parents reported [stated] they were very surprised and shock to find out their children whom they believed were very good turned out be suicide bombers.

Note the following 'straight-A pupils' who ran away to join ISIS;

Quote:
The schoolgirl jihadi brides: Three girls from one British school fly off to join ISIS as police face questions over how they were able to board Turkey flight
Girls - aged 15 and 16 - boarded flight from Gatwick Airport to Istanbul
They all go to same London school and are described as 'straight-A pupils'
Now believed to be travelling overland to Syria to marry jihadi fighters
Understood they were lured via social media by school friend who is there

East London schoolgirls feared to be heading to Syria to join ISIS | Daily Mail Online
Regardless of the secondary issues of politics, culture, etc.
there is a very fundamental primal impulse in their "heart" [actually brain/mind] that is compelling and driving these girl towards ISIS.

Note it is the similarly to the fundamental primal impulse that drive 'girls blinded with love' to elope and run away from home to the boyfriend. Many will give all sorts of reasons, bad treatments at home, etc., but the real driving force is the sex and reproductive instincts that is too strong for them to control.

The impulse related to religions and the existential dilemma is thousand times more stronger than the above ' blind romantic love.' The point is the Quran trigger this impulse and mix it with evil laden elements that led the above girls on the dark path.
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Old 08-07-2016, 12:49 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Just because we are Muslim does not mean we get a free pass.

all (Muslims and Non-Muslims) will be punished for their transgressions. The Punishment may be here on earth during our life time, it may be during the period we are in the grave, it may be in the hereafter or in any combination of the 3. It will be a fair punishment with many factors weihed such as our intent, Our level of knowledge that we were doing wrong, How much personal responsibility we are accountable for etc. The type, level and duration will also be reduced in accordance with the level of good we have done. Hell has levels, it is quite likely the Qur'an only speaks of the lowest level (The most severe) We do not know much about the higher levels, some even speculate that the highest level is very similar to our current life.

The same also goes for the good we do all people Muslim and non-Muslim will be rewarded for the good they do, even for what they intended to do, but did not do for reasons beyond their control.
The most serious punishment in the Quran are the unpardonable sins, e.g. attributing partners, sons, gods, idols, deities, to Allah.

Many of the evil prone Muslims are very pious and serious Muslims who would not dare to attribute partners, sons, gods, idols, deities, to Allah.
These evil prone Muslims would not dare to go against Allah's words and thus one can be very sure they will stick to Allah's words and commands as close as possible in order to avoid punishments.
6:160. Whoso [Muslims] bringeth a good deed will receive tenfold the like thereof, while whoso [infidels] bringeth an ill deed will be awarded [punished] but the like thereof [i.e. tenfold]; and they will not be wronged.
I believe the evil prone Muslims will not dare to commit sins but focus on the 'good' deeds that will bring rewards that are 'tenfold' [6:160] regardless of what happen to non-Muslims [killed, violence, etc.] because they sincerely believe what they act are in compliance with Allah's words.

Even if their acts are very evil, WHO ON EARTH can judge their deeds when they strive for the cause of Allah?

This is why it is so critical not to include any evil laden elements in any holy texts at all, if so, it must be accompanied by an overriding absolute moral maxim to ensure there is no room for conditional abuses.
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Old 08-07-2016, 07:17 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The most serious punishment in the Quran are the unpardonable sins, e.g. attributing partners, sons, gods, idols, deities, to Allah.

Many of the evil prone Muslims are very pious and serious Muslims who would not dare to attribute partners, sons, gods, idols, deities, to Allah.
These evil prone Muslims would not dare to go against Allah's words and thus one can be very sure they will stick to Allah's words and commands as close as possible in order to avoid punishments.
6:160. Whoso [Muslims] bringeth a good deed will receive tenfold the like thereof, while whoso [infidels] bringeth an ill deed will be awarded [punished] but the like thereof [i.e. tenfold]; and they will not be wronged.
I believe the evil prone Muslims will not dare to commit sins but focus on the 'good' deeds that will bring rewards that are 'tenfold' [6:160] regardless of what happen to non-Muslims [killed, violence, etc.] because they sincerely believe what they act are in compliance with Allah's words.

Even if their acts are very evil, WHO ON EARTH can judge their deeds when they strive for the cause of Allah?

This is why it is so critical not to include any evil laden elements in any holy texts at all, if so, it must be accompanied by an overriding absolute moral maxim to ensure there is no room for conditional abuses.
Addressing just the last paragraph:

Quote:
This is why it is so critical not to include any evil laden elements in any holy texts at all, if so, it must be accompanied by an overriding absolute moral maxim to ensure there is no room for conditional abuses.
1. Terrorism is above all murder. Murder is strictly forbidden in the Qur’an. Qur’an 6:151 says, “and do not kill a soul that God has made sacrosanct, save lawfully.” (i.e. murder is forbidden but the death penalty imposed by the state for a crime is permitted). 5:53 says, “… whoso kills a soul, unless it be for murder or for wreaking corruption in the land, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind; and he who saves a life, it shall be as if he had given life to all mankind.”

2. If the motive for terrorism is religious, it is impermissible in Islamic law. It is forbidden to attempt to impose Islam on other people. The Qur’an says, “There is no compulsion in religion. The right way has become distinct from error.” (-The Cow, 2:256). Note that this verse was revealed in Medina in 622 AD or after and was never abrogated by any other verse of the Quran. Islam’s holy book forbids coercing people into adopting any religion. They have to willingly choose it.

3. Islamic law forbids aggressive warfare. The Quran says, “But if the enemies incline towards peace, do you also incline towards peace. And trust in God! For He is the one who hears and knows all things.” (8:61) The Quran chapter “The Cow,” 2:190, says, “Fight in the way of God against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! God loveth not aggressors.”

4. In the Islamic law of war, not just any civil engineer can declare or launch a war. It is the prerogative of the duly constituted leader of the Muslim community that engages in the war. Nowadays that would be the president or prime minister of the state, as advised by the mufti or national jurisconsult.


5. The killing of innocent non-combatants is forbidden. According to Sunni tradition, ‘Abu Bakr al-Siddiq, the first Caliph, gave these instructions to his armies: “I instruct you in ten matters: Do not kill women, children, the old, or the infirm; do not cut down fruit-bearing trees; do not destroy any town . . . ” (Malik’s Muwatta’, “Kitab al-Jihad.”)


6. Terrorism or hirabah is forbidden in Islamic law, which groups it with brigandage, highway robbery and extortion rackets– any illicit use of fear and coercion in public spaces for money or power. The principle of forbidding the spreading of terror in the land is based on the Qur’an (Surah al-Ma’ida 5:33–34). Prominent [pdf] Muslim legal scholar Sherman Jackson writes, “The Spanish Maliki jurist Ibn `Abd al-Barr (d. 464/ 1070)) defines the agent of hiraba as ‘Anyone who disturbs free passage in the streets and renders them unsafe to travel, striving to spread corruption in the land by taking money, killing people or violating what God has made it unlawful to violate is guilty of hirabah . . .”



7. Sneak attacks are forbidden. Muslim commanders must give the enemy fair warning that war is imminent. The Prophet Muhammad at one point gave 4 months notice.



8. The Prophet Muhammad counseled doing good to those who harm you and is said to have commanded, “Do not be people without minds of your own, saying that if others treat you well you will treat them well, and that if they do wrong you will do wrong to them. Instead, accustom yourselves to do good if people do good and not to do wrong (even) if they do evil.” (Al-Tirmidhi)


9. The Qur’an demands of believers that they exercise justice toward people even where they have reason to be angry with them: “And do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just. Be just; that is nearer to righteousness.”[5:8]


10. The Qur’an assures Christians and Jews of paradise if they believe and do good works, and commends Christians as the best friends of Muslims. I wrote elsewhere, “Dangerous falsehoods are being promulgated to the American public. The Quran does not preach violence against Christians.


SOURCE for above: Top Ten Ways Islamic Law forbids Terrorism | Informed Comment



It has sometimes been asserted that the Quran forbids Muslims to enter into friendly relationships and alliances with non-Muslims. What is the truth of this?
This assertion is based on a misunderstanding of a verse that tells the Muslims of Muhammad’s time not to take as allies those who oppose their religion.

The general principle established throughout the Qur’an is that the relationship between Muslims and non-Muslims should be based on peace and fairness. So that there is no ambiguity it clearly and unequivocally states: Allah does not forbid you from dealing kindly and justly with those who do not fight you for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes: for Allah loves those who are just. [60:8]

The use of physical force in Islam is permitted only to defend human rights against aggressors or armed occupiers. The requirements for the legitimate use of force in either internal revolution or external war are strict and are clearly spelled out in the Qur’an, the sayings of the Prophet (hadith), and legal texts.
Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits. [Qur’an 2:190; 4:175, 5:9; 6:151, 22:39-40; 42:41-43]
If anyone slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people. [Qur’an 5:35]

Do not kill women or children or non-combatants.
Hadith
The use of non-violence as a strategy to combat evil has been employed in the appropriate circumstances by some of Islam’s greatest leaders. The following verse can certainly justify the strategy of non-violence: Nor can goodness and evil be equal. Repel evil with what is better. ... And no one will be granted such goodness except those who exercise patience and self-restraint, none but persons of the greatest spiritual blessing. [Qur’an 41:34-35]



SOURCE: Is The Quran One Solution to Terror?

There are considerable overriding maxims in the Qur'an and Ahadith that condemn abuses of what you call the "Evil Verses" Yes there are people that abuse the Qur'an for personal or political reasons. Currently the largest abuser is ISIS and that is a political movement to form a single Nation out of Iraq, Syria and Yemen with possible goals of expanding into Saudi and Iran. ISIS is not a religious movement, it it a political faction misusing Islam to gain support.

Looking at your favorite counter you may come to the conclusion that nearly all of those acts were committed by ISIS or ISIS supporters. (including the precursor to ISIS, al-Qaida)
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Old 08-07-2016, 05:29 PM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,848 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
There are no evil verses in the Qur'an. Only the evil prone or the kuffar think they are evil laden verses. This is why good Muslims do not do evil acts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Note my point is there are evil laden verses in the Quran.
Note my point is there are no evil laden verses in the Qur'an or else I would be complying with them. You prove my above point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
That is very obvious with verses loaded with elements of wars, fighting, rapes, ransom, and other evil elements phrased with ambiguous and vague terms.
And your claim is based on something that you are not sure about as the terms seem to be ambiguous and vague to you.

I say the verses are clear, not ambiguous or vague. That's why it is clear to me that there are no evil laden verses but justice laden verses. No point in you arguing with me about something you are unable to understand clearly by your own admission.
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