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Old 10-27-2016, 12:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmedfarhan View Post
Every book has its objective and the objective of the Quran is to make people aware of the Creation plan of God. That is, to tell man why God created this world; what the purpose is of settling man on earth; what is required from man in his pre-death life span, and what he is going to confront after death.
So basically, this:

Qur’an 22:19-22 “for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods”

Hate.
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Old 10-27-2016, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
So basically, this:

Qur’an 22:19-22 “for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods”

Hate.
I suppose that is one way to look at it. It is also possible to look at a plane trip to Paris as the possibility of suffering in a horrendous crash and being burnt to death in horrible pain. People general think in terms of the pleasure they will have when they get to Paris and do not dwell over the possibility of burning up in a fiery crash.

Life is a journey, since we have no choice except to make this journey, it could be helpful to know the possible destinations and make the choices that lead to the destination we desire.

Qur'an 22:19-22 is no different from what had previously been given in the Bible. this is pretty much a central belief for all adherents of the 4 Abrahamic faiths. for that matter many if not most theists.
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Old 10-27-2016, 06:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I suppose that is one way to look at it. It is also possible to look at a plane trip to Paris as the possibility of suffering in a horrendous crash and being burnt to death in horrible pain. People general think in terms of the pleasure they will have when they get to Paris and do not dwell over the possibility of burning up in a fiery crash.

Life is a journey, since we have no choice except to make this journey, it could be helpful to know the possible destinations and make the choices that lead to the destination we desire.

Qur'an 22:19-22 is no different from what had previously been given in the Bible. this is pretty much a central belief for all adherents of the 4 Abrahamic faiths. for that matter many if not most theists.
The plane is not threatening to crash and cause people being burnt to death on the way to Paris. A plane has no such evil intentions, or any intentions at all. Unless it is an Islamic terrorist with a bomb (think 9-11), and even then the horrible torture will last only seconds, or minutes, not an eternity. Here we have allah (Muhammed) threatening horrible and endless torture that he will do to billions of souls for all eternity. Think of the victims of 9-11 going through that scenario for eternity at the hands of allah. I can not think of anything more evil.
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Old 10-27-2016, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
The plane is not threatening to crash and cause people being burnt to death on the way to Paris. A plane has no such evil intentions, or any intentions at all. Unless it is an Islamic terrorist with a bomb (think 9-11), and even then the horrible torture will last only seconds, or minutes, not an eternity. Here we have allah (Muhammed) threatening horrible and endless torture that he will do to billions of souls for all eternity. Think of the victims of 9-11 going through that scenario for eternity at the hands of allah. I can not think of anything more evil.
Things to think about.

Not everyone who goes to hell will spend eternity in hell. There also are different levels of hell with different levels of punishment. A petty thief will not face the same punishment as say a child molester The punishment for each individual will be in accordance with the deed and their sincerity in any remorse for the deed. . The Qur'an speaks of the lowest level of hell and does not describe the other levels, we only know they are not as severe and the lowest level is for the hypocrites (Those who profess to be pious Muslims, but in fact are disbelievers who use Islam for their personal gain) We do not know the punishment for most people, we only know it will not be as severe as the lowest level.

If Allaah(swt) was as you think he is, would he allow you to speak against Him?
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Old 10-27-2016, 07:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Things to think about.

Not everyone who goes to hell will spend eternity in hell. There also are different levels of hell with different levels of punishment. A petty thief will not face the same punishment as say a child molester The punishment for each individual will be in accordance with the deed and their sincerity in any remorse for the deed. . The Qur'an speaks of the lowest level of hell and does not describe the other levels, we only know they are not as severe and the lowest level is for the hypocrites (Those who profess to be pious Muslims, but in fact are disbelievers who use Islam for their personal gain) We do not know the punishment for most people, we only know it will not be as severe as the lowest level.

If Allaah(swt) was as you think he is, would he allow you to speak against Him?
Let's look at the quote again:

Qur’an 22:19-22 “for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods”

Let's read a couple more translations.

Sahih International
These are two adversaries who have disputed over their Lord. But those who disbelieved will have cut out for them garments of fire. Poured upon their heads will be scalding water. By which is melted that within their bellies and [their] skins. And for [striking] them are maces of iron. Every time they want to get out of Hellfire from anguish, they will be returned to it, and [it will be said], "Taste the punishment of the Burning Fire!"

Pickthall
These twain (the believers and the disbelievers) are two opponents who contend concerning their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads,Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning.

Yusuf Ali
These two antagonists dispute with each other about their Lord: But those who deny (their Lord),- for them will be cut out a garment of Fire: over their heads will be poured out boiling water. With it will be scalded what is within their bodies, as well as (their) skins. In addition there will be maces of iron (to punish) them. Every time they wish to get away therefrom, from anguish, they will be forced back therein, and (it will be said), "Taste ye the Penalty of Burning!"

Nothing about thieves or child molesters. Unbelievers/disbelievers.

There is no allah, thank GOODNESS.

This stuff is just sick...evil and hateful. Do you really read it and think it is beautiful?
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Old 10-27-2016, 10:35 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Let's look at the quote again:

Qur’an 22:19-22 “for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods”

Let's read a couple more translations.

Sahih International
These are two adversaries who have disputed over their Lord. But those who disbelieved will have cut out for them garments of fire. Poured upon their heads will be scalding water. By which is melted that within their bellies and [their] skins. And for [striking] them are maces of iron. Every time they want to get out of Hellfire from anguish, they will be returned to it, and [it will be said], "Taste the punishment of the Burning Fire!"

Pickthall
These twain (the believers and the disbelievers) are two opponents who contend concerning their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads,Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning.

Yusuf Ali
These two antagonists dispute with each other about their Lord: But those who deny (their Lord),- for them will be cut out a garment of Fire: over their heads will be poured out boiling water. With it will be scalded what is within their bodies, as well as (their) skins. In addition there will be maces of iron (to punish) them. Every time they wish to get away therefrom, from anguish, they will be forced back therein, and (it will be said), "Taste ye the Penalty of Burning!"

Nothing about thieves or child molesters. Unbelievers/disbelievers.

There is no allah, thank GOODNESS.

This stuff is just sick...evil and hateful. Do you really read it and think it is beautiful?
Even worse. I also think all human beings are beautiful even you and all disbelievers. Yes I read the Qur'an and find it to be beautiful. I see the love in the giving us warnings to keep us from succumbing to that which will lead us away from heaven.
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Old 10-28-2016, 11:00 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Even worse. I also think all human beings are beautiful even you and all disbelievers. Yes I read the Qur'an and find it to be beautiful. I see the love in the giving us warnings to keep us from succumbing to that which will lead us away from heaven.
Qur’an 22:19-22 “for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods”

Would you like to watch your god do this?
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Old 10-28-2016, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Qur’an 22:19-22 “for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods”

Would you like to watch your god do this?
Allaah is not doing that, they are doing it them self. Every person has the ability to choose heaven or Hell. A person that goes to hell does so with knowledge and awareness,it is their choice. They know they have the option of choosing eternity in a very pleasurable existence or in a very miserable existence.

Look at heaven and hell being a beautiful house you would love vs the city dump with nothing of any enjoyment. The same person built both and gives you a free choice to select which you want. Is it his fault if you choose the dump?
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Old 10-28-2016, 09:12 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 751,221 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Allaah is not doing that, they are doing it them self. Every person has the ability to choose heaven or Hell. A person that goes to hell does so with knowledge and awareness,it is their choice. They know they have the option of choosing eternity in a very pleasurable existence or in a very miserable existence.

Look at heaven and hell being a beautiful house you would love vs the city dump with nothing of any enjoyment. The same person built both and gives you a free choice to select which you want. Is it his fault if you choose the dump?
WHAT!!!??? They are NOT doing that to themselves! Allah is! You dare to say that because a person does not believe as you do that torture is justified....how very evil is that???? What if I say that if you do not believe in Objectivism and become an Objectivist then you should be terribly tortured for the rest of your life...and you deserve that torture? I could NEVER say such a thing!

To threaten this terrible cruelty if a person does not submit to a particular belief is beyond evil. To try to force a mind like this is impossible. You cannot force belief and submission on others. Could I force you to become an Objectivist? Should I torture you if you don't become one if I demand you do?

This kind of evil is beyond belief and to suggest that the victim of such hate and torture deserves it is sickening.
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Old 10-28-2016, 10:07 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
WHAT!!!??? They are NOT doing that to themselves! Allah is! You dare to say that because a person does not believe as you do that torture is justified....how very evil is that???? What if I say that if you do not believe in Objectivism and become an Objectivist then you should be terribly tortured for the rest of your life...and you deserve that torture? I could NEVER say such a thing!

To threaten this terrible cruelty if a person does not submit to a particular belief is beyond evil. To try to force a mind like this is impossible. You cannot force belief and submission on others. Could I force you to become an Objectivist? Should I torture you if you don't become one if I demand you do?

This kind of evil is beyond belief and to suggest that the victim of such hate and torture deserves it is sickening.
I do not believe a person will be sent to hell simply because they do not believe as I do. I believe they must first have the knowledge and ability to understand what their choices are and then make the deliberate choice to separate them self from Allaah(swt)'s love. No one will be punished for that they are not responsible for nor have the knowledge and ability to do. No one will be sent to Hell without having a warning, they have the ability to understand.
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