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Old 08-19-2016, 12:07 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,592,154 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Only a person ignorant of what Allah has sanctioned in the Qur'an will think in this way despite being well aware that the majority incidents are related to "political issues".

Why?

Because the Qur'an and Islam, and not the political issues, must attacked.
You are ignorant of reality.
If you can ever remove all political issues on Earth, there will still be SOME evil prone Muslims committing evil and violence on non-Muslims and other Muslims for other reasons, e.g. cultural, social, religious, theological, economics, gender, sex, education, etc.

If it because political issues is so natural and common, these SOME evil prone Muslims are using such political issue to strive for their primary theological agenda, i.e. salvation with eternal life in Paradise, the false arrogance of the superiority of their religion, the domination over all other inferior religions, etc.
The political issue are secondary and just excuses.
Note the agenda of Iran and many nations who used democracy as a political issue to push forward their theological dominance. The fight against the West is based on the Quran command to fight infidels who occupy Islamic land. Why the majority of evil prone Muslims focus on the USA is because they feel they are so superior with Allah's support [of an invisible army] that they can fight Goliath any time.

Who is the one who is ignorant here?
Answer: YOU!
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Old 08-19-2016, 01:49 AM
 
3,168 posts, read 1,045,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
You are ignorant of reality.
You are ignorant of both the Qur'an and the reality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
If you can ever remove all political issues on Earth, there will still be SOME evil prone Muslims committing evil and violence on non-Muslims and other Muslims for other reasons, e.g. cultural, social, religious, theological, economics, gender, sex, education, etc.
There you go again, talking in ignorance. There was violence and evil being committed everywhere when the Qur'an hadn't even been revealed yet.

WWI and WWII were political wars.

Atom bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were due to politics and not the Qur'an.

You are exposing your ignorance of the reality when ignoring the politics factor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
If it because political issues is so natural and common, these SOME evil prone Muslims are using such political issue to strive for their primary theological agenda, i.e. salvation with eternal life in Paradise, the false arrogance of the superiority of their religion, the domination over all other inferior religions, etc.
Utter ignorance when I, and others in majority, have the same Deen, the same "false arrogance", but we do not commit evil aqcts despite complying with the same Qur'an. Have you forgotten that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The political issue are secondary and just excuses.
Political issues are primary CAUSES, and you know it quite well. You had once given a Link in this forum about a letter from Bin Laden. He had identified ME POLITICS as his PRIMARY reason and not the Qur'an.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Note the agenda of Iran and many nations who used democracy as a political issue to push forward their theological dominance.
No. Iran is not expanding its political land but Israel is. Most of the Middle East terrorism is CAUSED by this political issue of creation of political Israel without a political Palestine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The fight against the West is based on the Quran command to fight infidels who occupy Islamic land.
Even in this statement of yours, it is politics and not fighting any infidel for no reason. Bin Laden had given this same reason; "who occupy Islamic land". In his words, those who attack Islamic land and occupy it. This is politics that you are ignoring on purpose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Why the majority of evil prone Muslims focus on the USA is because they feel they are so superior with Allah's support [of an invisible army] that they can fight Goliath any time.

Who is the one who is ignorant here?
Answer: YOU!
LOL! You ask a silly question and you give silly answer yourself.
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Old 08-19-2016, 09:21 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,592,154 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
You are ignorant of both the Qur'an and the reality.


I just posted this earlier:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post

Quote:
His methodology, therefore, is to dialectic among reality and Quran.
On the basis of the methodology, we must begin from the reality of life to the Quran and from the Quran back to the reality of life.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhamm...adr#Philosophy
The above is a good point but the problem is the Quran being a closed-system [it has to be] cannot be extended out fully into the open system of reality.

This is the usual limit I often encounter with Muslims [e.g. Khalif and Woodrow] who cannot extend their perspective outside the scope of the Quran and the framework of Islam into the outer sphere of reality.

The fact is most Muslims cannot operate outside their comfort zone and security blanket.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif
There you go again, talking in ignorance. There was violence and evil being committed everywhere when the Qur'an hadn't even been revealed yet.

WWI and WWII were political wars.

Atom bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were due to politics and not the Qur'an.

You are exposing your ignorance of the reality when ignoring the politics factor.
You missed my point. I stated the following "IF,"

IF you can ever remove all political issues on Earth. ..
then, the evil prone Muslims will still continue to commit evils and violence that are not related to political issue. The evidence is glaring as I have shown earlier.

When the Quran of Muhammad emerge there was this additional evils and violence that is influenced and motivated by theological/religious elements. If humanity can get rid of the Quran, there will be no more Islamic-inspired [Allahu Akbar] evils and violence. No doubt evil prone people will continue to commit evils and violence but there will be one less main class of evils and violence based on immutable religious doctrines.

Quote:
Utter ignorance when I, and others in majority, have the same Deen, the same "false arrogance", but we do not commit evil aqcts despite complying with the same Qur'an. Have you forgotten that?
You are off point again, note I stated;

these SOME evil prone Muslims
It has nothing to do with you because I have not included you as 'these SOME evil prone Muslims.'

Quote:
Political issues are primary CAUSES, and you know it quite well. You had once given a Link in this forum about a letter from Bin Laden. He had identified ME POLITICS as his PRIMARY reason and not the Qur'an.
Did you read that letter wherein he gave numerous quotes from the Quran?
His fundamental motivation was from the Quran to ease his desperate existential dilemma and politics was merely secondary to enable him to carry out martyrdom to please Allah to expedite his passage to Paradise with greater rewards than the so-called coward Muslims.

Quote:
No. Iran is not expanding its political land but Israel is. Most of the Middle East terrorism is CAUSED by this political issue of creation of political Israel without a political Palestine.
Don't be that ignorant. There may be Jews who are fundamentalist but the Israel government is ruled by secular laws not Judaic Laws.
On the other hand, Iran is ruled by Laws enforced by the immutable rigid Quran. What kind of Government would declare so openly they want to wipe out another internationally recognized Nation from the face of the Earth, that is beastly and that is motivated from where? [you should know where] - the Quran.

Quote:
Even in this statement of yours, it is politics and not fighting any infidel for no reason. Bin Laden had given this same reason; "who occupy Islamic land". In his words, those who attack Islamic land and occupy it. This is politics that you are ignoring on purpose.
On the surface it is actually bastardized politics which is not in accordance to recognized conventional politics but motivated by some immutable theological laws grounded on an illusory being.
IF you read Bin Laden's letter, you will note the underlying main reason is theological and psychological and not political.

Here is it again!
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...24/theobserver

96:1. READ! In the name of thy Lord who createth,

The letter started with this;

Quote:
In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful,
"Permission to fight (against disbelievers) is given to those (believers) who are fought against, because they have been wronged and surely, Allah is Able to give them (believers) victory" [Quran 22:39]

"Those who believe, fight in the Cause of Allah, and those who disbelieve, fight in the cause of Taghut (anything worshipped other than Allah e.g. Satan). So fight you against the friends of Satan; ever feeble is indeed the plot of Satan."[Quran 4:76]
Quote:
LOL! You ask a silly question and you give silly answer yourself.
Regardless of your response, that is a fact you need to educate yourself with.
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Old 08-21-2016, 03:26 AM
 
3,168 posts, read 1,045,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Did you read that letter wherein he gave numerous quotes from the Quran?
His fundamental motivation was from the Quran to ease his desperate existential dilemma and politics was merely secondary to enable him to carry out martyrdom to please Allah to expedite his passage to Paradise with greater rewards than the so-called coward Muslims.
I am not a fool like you not to see why he said so even though his reason for fighting America was attacks from America. By quoting the Qur'an, he was trying to recruit other fools (you fell in his trap). ISIS do the same as recruiting tactics. If you can't understand this you do not understand the reality in this matter.

You are also fool if you think Bin Laden was fighting a religious enemy instead of a secular political enemy.
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Old 08-21-2016, 03:31 AM
 
248 posts, read 121,537 times
Reputation: 406
I have been waiting for the entire world to stop feuding and fighting over trivial things. It is called the carnal nature and everyone wants things THEIR way.

Not going to happen in this life time folks.

Focus on positive things.

Phil. 4:8
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Old 08-21-2016, 03:37 AM
 
248 posts, read 121,537 times
Reputation: 406
anyone aware of free will?
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Old 08-21-2016, 07:08 AM
 
352 posts, read 309,235 times
Reputation: 54
Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim. As salaamu alaykum.



Quote:
Originally Posted by composter View Post
anyone aware of free will?

Yes. I see free will as a responsible decision on the part of the mature innate nature.
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Old 08-21-2016, 05:30 PM
 
352 posts, read 309,235 times
Reputation: 54
Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name Of Allah, The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful. As salaamu alaykum The Peace Be Upon You.




HISTORY OF THE SHI‘A IN THE TIME OF IMAM SAJJAD (A) PART 1

HISTORY OF THE SHI‘A IN THE TIME OF IMAM SAJJAD (A) PART 2
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Old 08-21-2016, 11:02 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,592,154 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
I am not a fool like you not to see why he said so even though his reason for fighting America was attacks from America. By quoting the Qur'an, he was trying to recruit other fools (you fell in his trap). ISIS do the same as recruiting tactics. If you can't understand this you do not understand the reality in this matter.

You are also fool if you think Bin Laden was fighting a religious enemy instead of a secular political enemy.
'you are a fool' that is a personal attack especially it is not even justified.

Your views as usual are based on ignorance and desperation to deny.

Bin Laden did not belong to any political party at all nor was he a citizen of Afghanistan. In other words he was merely a busybody foreigner driven by a religious mission for his own personal salvation and to please Allah.

Bin Laden's mission to fight the USA and others was primarily motivated by being a Muslim and his obligation of duty as stipulated in the Quran.

Bin Laden quoting the Quran in his letter to the USA has nothing to do directly with recruiting. However the quotation of the Quran proved directly his motivation of terror is linked to Islam and verses in the Quran. This is a proof itself that the Quran contains evil laden verses that influenced evil prone Muslims to commit terrible evils and violence on non-Muslims primarily for religious reasons [i..e. salvation] and other reasons are secondary.

Bin Laden did not have to quote verses from the Quran to attract recruits. Those evil prone Muslims who are ready to commit evils and violence are already ready-made and gearing to die for the cause of Allah when they read the Quran themselves or are influenced by their respective imans, teachers, instigators, etc.
This was what happened when droves of evil prone Muslims rushed to join ISIS immediately the group emerged and was known in Syria.

Last edited by Continuum; 08-21-2016 at 11:16 PM..
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Old 08-22-2016, 03:22 AM
 
3,168 posts, read 1,045,849 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
'you are a fool' that is a personal attack especially it is not even justified.

Your views as usual are based on ignorance and desperation to deny.
It is your view that is based on ignorance when Bin Laden gave his reason of attacks on Muslims countries as the primary reason. His reason for quoting verses of the Qur'an was to recruit the fools who have ignorance about the Qur'an. Anyone who falls in that trap is a fool. That's what is meant by my statement rather than i regard you a fool personally.

Therefore, my advice to you is not to fall in the trap of people like Anjem Choudary or Bin Laden who have been quoting verses of the Qur'an but ending up either in jails or being shot dead. Do not align your views with their views and become fool like them!
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