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Old 08-13-2016, 01:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
My old Qur'an which I got in 1960 in Morocco was printed in Morocco and is identical with my newest one printed in Medina. But I am aware of some being printed with different pronunciation marks. I think this may be from an attempt to centralize written Arabic, which does differ from nation to nation.(/quote) The actual words and letters must be exactly the same wherever the Qur'an is printed. If a word or even a letter is added or taken out from any print, that "quran print" must be taken out of circulation as any hafiz will reject it.

(quote)The only true Qur'an is the Recitation by the Hafiz.
True!

In my local mosque, a hafiz leads the taraweeh prayer during the Ramadan and at least another hafiz is right behind him to correct him if he misses a word or misses anything. The other hafiz just says the first missed word and the imam then says that word and gets back on track from that word.

Even when the pronunciation marks were added during the time of Uthman, every word of every verse was checked again with existing peoples who had already memorized the original Qur'an.

The Qur'an is guarded. There isn't any hope of it being corrupted in text.
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Old 08-13-2016, 10:48 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
I did listen to the whole of it. It was quite amusing to see ignorant people talking about the Qur'an. They can't even read Arabic, how are they to know the difference?
Note both the presenters are familiar with Arabic, it just that they cannot speak [pronounce] Arabic like Arabs.
In addition, the lady presenter counter checked with experts Arabic teachers.

Quote:
It is a false claim. If there had been different Qur'an, there would be many hafiz reciting different in words and letters. There are no such hafiz, never have been.
This is one point that is not specific in the Quran.

The presenters has shown 26 Arabic Qurans that contain lots of differences.
I would have assumed the Hafiz who belong to the specific groups would have recited and cross checked to the copies of the Quran they have on hand.

Say the 26 copies of different Quran are A, B, C to Z.
When the Hafiz of group A recited from the Quran, surely he and his teachers would have refer to the Quran handed down from his teachers of past generation.
It is the same for the Hafiz from group/sect B, C to Z.
If all the Hafiz are reciting the same Quran [say SQ], then it is obvious the follower Muslims who refer to the open Quran text would have noted what they heard would be different from the Quran they have on hand.

Therefore it is impossible for what is recited by the respected Hafiz from different groups/sect to be the same.

However, you raised a valid point but I don't think your point is true. I will need to confirm it. If need be I shall write to the presenters.

Quote:
The attack on the Qur'an is simply because of the fact that this is the only book that is word by word the Word of God. It is the Rock of Islam. I like it, I like it, I like it and will like it for as long as I live. Thank God I am a Muslim!
First the truth must prevail, then it is up to people to either believer the truth or forced themselves to believe in a lie.
I am after the truth based on a rational and objective basis.

It is only those who believe in a lie and cannot substantiate it that accused the truth seekers of attacking their views and belief.
Why don't you just focus on the truths and if your views are true, then substantiate and justify it.

Quote:
Video has proven nothing. No hafiz is reciting any other quran than the Qur'an.
What is presented in that video is based on actual evidence.
I will have to confirm whether ALL the hafiz in the the world are reciting the same word for word, while the Quran they hold in front of them are different from each others.

Quote:
Which publishers in the world? Christian publishers?

All Muslim publishers print the same Arabic Qur'an as the main press in Madina. There are thousands of the Arabic Qur'an copies printed in ALL main Muslim countries. I have seen them from Pakistan and even India (where millions of Muslims live) as well as from Al Fahd press in Madina. They are all same word by word. The Arabic Qur'an I used to read 60 years ago was exactly the same as available today.
The presenters mentioned the 26 Arabic Quran are gathered from different parts of the World and mentioned different publishers.
I will need to do further research and information they are from different publishers and not the main press in Madina. Note there is no overriding authority that the Quran must be published in Madina. Surely the Shia will disagree with this.

Quote:
This is one subject that non-Muslims will fail in.
Again this is not a question of pass or fail.
What is critical in the truth in correspondence with reality.
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Old 08-13-2016, 10:56 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
My old Qur'an which I got in 1960 in Morocco was printed in Morocco and is identical with my newest one printed in Medina. But I am aware of some being printed with different pronunciation marks. I think this may be from an attempt to centralize written Arabic, which does differ from nation to nation.

The only true Qur'an is the Recitation by the Hafiz.
You have not read all the 26 copies of the Arabic Quran [from various sources since the 8th centuries] that are claimed to be different. As such you cannot form any credible conclusion.

Since many of those written Quran were from as early as the 8th centuries and they are different, it is not likely any of the group/sect will give in to accept their Quran was the wrong one in terms of existing differences with the other 25 Arabic Quran.
Especially if there are differences in the Arabic between the Shia and Sunni groups, I don't think either of this group will give in to the other.

I will have to find out if ALL Hafiz in the World are reciting the same Quran word for word and not in accordance to the texts they have on hand.
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Old 08-14-2016, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
You have not read all the 26 copies of the Arabic Quran [from various sources since the 8th centuries] that are claimed to be different. As such you cannot form any credible conclusion.

Since many of those written Quran were from as early as the 8th centuries and they are different, it is not likely any of the group/sect will give in to accept their Quran was the wrong one in terms of existing differences with the other 25 Arabic Quran.
Especially if there are differences in the Arabic between the Shia and Sunni groups, I don't think either of this group will give in to the other.

I will have to find out if ALL Hafiz in the World are reciting the same Quran word for word and not in accordance to the texts they have on hand.
There are frequent Recitation competitions, held in different nations, with reciters from every Nation. They all recite the exact same thing.

Some of the more popular competitions

https://www.quran.bh/en/home

http://iqna.ir/en/news/3460202/winne...unced-in-dubai

Somaliland:President Honors the winners of 2016 Quran Recitation competition -

Competition Open for Canadians: 58th International al-Quran Recital and Memorizing Assembly
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Old 08-14-2016, 03:18 PM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,039,481 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Note both the presenters are familiar with Arabic, it just that they cannot speak [pronounce] Arabic like Arabs.
In addition, the lady presenter counter checked with experts Arabic teachers.
How do they know that those are Arabic Qur'an from 8th century? And why is there no hafiz of those different qurans today?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
This is one point that is not specific in the Quran.

The presenters has shown 26 Arabic Qurans that contain lots of differences.
I would have assumed the Hafiz who belong to the specific groups would have recited and cross checked to the copies of the Quran they have on hand.
Do you know how many hafiz of those 26 different qurans are there today, if any?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Say the 26 copies of different Quran are A, B, C to Z.
When the Hafiz of group A recited from the Quran, surely he and his teachers would have refer to the Quran handed down from his teachers of past generation.
Say the 26 copies of different Quran are A, B, C to Z.

When the Hafiz of the Quran A memorized from the Quran A, surely he would help his student hafiz to memorize only from the Qur'an A (and not from the Qur'an B or Z). The same goes for all 26. You would then have 26 + 26 = 52 hafiz with 26 variant memorization. Within only a 5 year period we could have hundreds of hafiz in the world with variant memories. Can you see the domino effect? It would be impossible to control all the hafiz in the world to have the exact same memory because they have memorized from 26 different Qurans. Yet, each one, and all, have the same memory of One Qur'an in the world today. Any variant in any print would be detected immediately by any hafiz in any country and the copy taken out of circulation. But you can't take any hafiz out of circulation. So the aim must be to find those thousands of hafiz of the 26 Qurans for the claim to be credible.

Finding any written Qur'anic material even from the 8th century that is different from the Arabic Qur'an in hand today means nothing to us unless there are thousands of hafiz today of each of those 26 different Qurans. Please keep in mind that you can find written material from 8th century but it could have been written by a young child in a school. It could have mistakes and the material was not destroyed but buried somewhere for non-Muslims to find centuries later. Such material is no goldmine against the Qur'an without any hafiz of it all and each one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Therefore it is impossible for what is recited by the respected Hafiz from different groups/sect to be the same.
Exactly my point!

The challenge for you now is to find different hafiz of 26 different Arabic Qurans in their memory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
However, you raised a valid point but I don't think your point is true. I will need to confirm it. If need be I shall write to the presenters.
You should, for your own satisfaction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
First the truth must prevail, then it is up to people to either believer the truth or forced themselves to believe in a lie.
I am after the truth based on a rational and objective basis.
You will have no problem finding thousands of different hafiz of 26 different Qurans if the claim is credible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
It is only those who believe in a lie and cannot substantiate it that accused the truth seekers of attacking their views and belief.
Why don't you just focus on the truths and if your views are true, then substantiate and justify it.
Good advice to yourself! Personally, there is no 26 different Qurans if there are no thousands of hafiz of each of the 26 different Qurans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
What is presented in that video is based on actual evidence.
I will have to confirm whether ALL the hafiz in the the world are reciting the same word for word, while the Quran they hold in front of them are different from each others.
You will have a massive job finding hafiz of each of the 26 different Qurans. Also Hafiz who holds the Qur'an in front of him when reciting the Qur'an is no hafiz. A hafiz does not need to hold the Qur'an in front of him to recite it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The presenters mentioned the 26 Arabic Quran are gathered from different parts of the World and mentioned different publishers.
Can I have the list of publishers of those 26 copies? I can check it myself?

You will find that in those days there were no "publishers" but the Qur'an was hand-written.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I will need to do further research and information they are from different publishers and not the main press in Madina. Note there is no overriding authority that the Quran must be published in Madina. Surely the Shia will disagree with this.
There are thousands of Arabic Qur'ans printed in Iran, Pakistan, and other countries. It does not have to be from Madina. Al Fahd is only one of the many printers of the Arabic Qur'an in the world today. Shia read the same Qur'an as Sunni read. The Arabic Qur'an printed in Madina will be same as Markazi printed Arabic Qur'an. There is no problem there as the Arabic Qur'an that was read by Uthman was exactly the same as Ali was reading at the time.
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Old 08-14-2016, 10:10 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
How do they know that those are Arabic Qur'an from 8th century? And why is there no hafiz of those different qurans today?

Do you know how many hafiz of those 26 different qurans are there today, if any?
That is what the presenters in the video mentioned that some of the versions are from the 8th century and the latest was codified in 1920. Obviously I would not take their words as final at present till I have some credible basis to accept what they say.

HOW DO YOU KNOW there are no different hafiz of those different Qurans at present?
I have no basis to confirm the above and I will have to find out.

Quote:
Say the 26 copies of different Quran are A, B, C to Z.

When the Hafiz of the Quran A memorized from the Quran A, surely he would help his student hafiz to memorize only from the Qur'an A (and not from the Qur'an B or Z). The same goes for all 26. You would then have 26 + 26 = 52 hafiz with 26 variant memorization. Within only a 5 year period we could have hundreds of hafiz in the world with variant memories. Can you see the domino effect? It would be impossible to control all the hafiz in the world to have the exact same memory because they have memorized from 26 different Qurans. Yet, each one, and all, have the same memory of One Qur'an in the world today. Any variant in any print would be detected immediately by any hafiz in any country and the copy taken out of circulation. But you can't take any hafiz out of circulation. So the aim must be to find those thousands of hafiz of the 26 Qurans for the claim to be credible.
You got it wrong here.
If all the students of the 26 Qurans recite from their specific Arabic Quran, then there will only be 26 variations of memorizations and no more. This is because they will be using the 26 printed Quran as permanent reference.
So there are no thousands of variations but the most is 26 variations [or more if there are more Arabic Qurans to be found).

Quote:
Finding any written Qur'anic material even from the 8th century that is different from the Arabic Qur'an in hand today means nothing to us unless there are thousands of hafiz today of each of those 26 different Qurans. Please keep in mind that you can find written material from 8th century but it could have been written by a young child in a school. It could have mistakes and the material was not destroyed but buried somewhere for non-Muslims to find centuries later. Such material is no goldmine against the Qur'an without any hafiz of it all and each one.
My point is if there are 26 [or more] different Qurans and its 26 different recitations then it prove there is no ONE Quran present in the World at present.
This prove the Quran[s] has been exposed to corruptions [alterations, changes] since the original was revealed to Muhammad [if such a thing ever happened].

Quote:
Exactly my point!
The challenge for you now is to find different hafiz of 26 different Arabic Qurans in their memory.
I agree, we need to find the respective hafiz of the respective 26 different Arabic Qurans.

Quote:
You will have no problem finding thousands of different hafiz of 26 different Qurans if the claim is credible.
It is not thousands but 26 different recitation specific to each of the 26 different Arabic Quran. As I had stated, they cannot be more because the other Muslims who are not hafiz will be referring to the open Quran and inform the hafiz if there is an error and different from any of the 26 different written Qurans.

Quote:
Good advice to yourself! Personally, there is no 26 different Qurans if there are no thousands of hafiz of each of the 26 different Qurans.
Based on the video [subject to further confirmations] the presenters has already produced 26 different Arabic Qurans.

Quote:
You will have a massive job finding hafiz of each of the 26 different Qurans. Also Hafiz who holds the Qur'an in front of him when reciting the Qur'an is no hafiz. A hafiz does not need to hold the Qur'an in front of him to recite it.
A hafiz will first learn the Quran from any of the 26 written Qurans. There is no way a hafiz is born with an instant Quran in his brain. His teacher will teach him from the handed down Quran [from generations] of his group/sect [any of the 26 Qurans] and constantly refer to the written text.

Quote:
Can I have the list of publishers of those 26 copies? I can check it myself?
I don't have it. You can keep this in mind when the findings are publish in details. It is imperative the presenters will have to provide publishers and source details.

Quote:
You will find that in those days there were no "publishers" but the Qur'an was hand-written.
Regardless the presenters must present the relevant objective details to justify their conclusions.

Quote:
There are thousands of Arabic Qur'ans printed in Iran, Pakistan, and other countries. It does not have to be from Madina. Al Fahd is only one of the many printers of the Arabic Qur'an in the world today. Shia read the same Qur'an as Sunni read. The Arabic Qur'an printed in Madina will be same as Markazi printed Arabic Qur'an. There is no problem there as the Arabic Qur'an that was read by Uthman was exactly the same as Ali was reading at the time.
OK, noted many are printed in other countries.

But note your earlier point;
Khalif: All Muslim publishers print the same Arabic Qur'an as the main press in Madina.

But the publishers who print any of the 26 different Arabic Qurans will not be printing the SAME Arabic Quran.

I think the problem is this;
All Muslims are so absorbed by the Quran and Muslims' claim that the Quran is perfected and the present Quran is word for word the same as the original one revealed to Muhammad that they took it for granted by never check what is in reality.
The fact is, in reality there are 26 different Arabic Quran in existence which contain lots of differences amongst them.
This is the problem with the majority of Muslims [including you and Woodrow as evidenced] who are so blinded they never open their eyes to the reality of the world because of some desperate existential psychology within them.
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Old 08-15-2016, 01:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
That is what the presenters in the video mentioned that some of the versions are from the 8th century and the latest was codified in 1920. Obviously I would not take their words as final at present till I have some credible basis to accept what they say.

HOW DO YOU KNOW there are no different hafiz of those different Qurans at present?
I have no basis to confirm the above and I will have to find out.

You got it wrong here.
If all the students of the 26 Qurans recite from their specific Arabic Quran, then there will only be 26 variations of memorizations and no more. This is because they will be using the 26 printed Quran as permanent reference.
So there are no thousands of variations but the most is 26 variations [or more if there are more Arabic Qurans to be found).

My point is if there are 26 [or more] different Qurans and its 26 different recitations then it prove there is no ONE Quran present in the World at present.
This prove the Quran[s] has been exposed to corruptions [alterations, changes] since the original was revealed to Muhammad [if such a thing ever happened].

I agree, we need to find the respective hafiz of the respective 26 different Arabic Qurans.

It is not thousands but 26 different recitation specific to each of the 26 different Arabic Quran. As I had stated, they cannot be more because the other Muslims who are not hafiz will be referring to the open Quran and inform the hafiz if there is an error and different from any of the 26 different written Qurans.

Based on the video [subject to further confirmations] the presenters has already produced 26 different Arabic Qurans.

A hafiz will first learn the Quran from any of the 26 written Qurans. There is no way a hafiz is born with an instant Quran in his brain. His teacher will teach him from the handed down Quran [from generations] of his group/sect [any of the 26 Qurans] and constantly refer to the written text.

I don't have it. You can keep this in mind when the findings are publish in details. It is imperative the presenters will have to provide publishers and source details.

Regardless the presenters must present the relevant objective details to justify their conclusions.

OK, noted many are printed in other countries.

But note your earlier point;
Khalif: All Muslim publishers print the same Arabic Qur'an as the main press in Madina.

But the publishers who print any of the 26 different Arabic Qurans will not be printing the SAME Arabic Quran.

I think the problem is this;
All Muslims are so absorbed by the Quran and Muslims' claim that the Quran is perfected and the present Quran is word for word the same as the original one revealed to Muhammad that they took it for granted by never check what is in reality.
The fact is, in reality there are 26 different Arabic Quran in existence which contain lots of differences amongst them.
This is the problem with the majority of Muslims [including you and Woodrow as evidenced] who are so blinded they never open their eyes to the reality of the world because of some desperate existential psychology within them.
The fact is that if there have been 26 different Qurans since the 8th century, there must have been thousands of hafiz of those Qurans by now. Where are they? And why should anyone codify a Qur'an in 1920, when it was revealed 1400 years earlier?

The claim of 26 different Qurans, without any hafiz of each of them, is a blatant lie and satanic work.
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Old 08-15-2016, 11:49 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
The fact is that if there have been 26 different Qurans since the 8th century, there must have been thousands of hafiz of those Qurans by now. Where are they?
The claim of 26 different Qurans, without any hafiz of each of them, is a blatant lie and satanic work.
As I had mentioned, this has to be confirmed upon further research.
However I am very optimistic the different hafix exist.


Quote:
And why should anyone codify a Qur'an in 1920, when it was revealed 1400 years earlier?
The 1920 Quran was codified and standard to eliminate all differences that existed amongst various groups who agreed to the standardization. This itself proved there were differences in the Arab Quran since it was first revealed to Muhammad in 623AD.

The other 26 different Arabic Quran did not agree to be codified with the 1920 standardization because they [of different sects, groups, etc.] do not agree with 1920 standard.

Note when the presenters compared merely two of the Arabic Qurans, they discovered 1000++ differences between the two Arabic Quran. When they compared all the 26 Quran there will 1000s of differences.

This proved that the Arabic Quran existing around the world were not intact and exactly word for word as the original revelation revealed to Muhammad. Without an original copy no one will ever know whether the Quran they have on their hand is the true Quran as revealed to Muhammad in 623AD.

To save further embarassment I suggested the OIC should form a committee to standardize all the different Arabic Qurans existing at present. The question there may be some groups who will not give way and insist their copy is the same as the true original version revealed to Muhammad in 623AD.
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Old 08-16-2016, 01:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
As I had mentioned, this has to be confirmed upon further research.
However I am very optimistic the different hafix exist.
That makes sense!

Different hafix may exist because of their fixing but not different hafiz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The 1920 Quran was codified and standard to eliminate all differences that existed amongst various groups who agreed to the standardization. This itself proved there were differences in the Arab Quran since it was first revealed to Muhammad in 623AD.
That proves that 26 different Qurans never existed or else there would be 27 different Qurans now or 28.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The other 26 different Arabic Quran did not agree to be codified with the 1920 standardization because they [of different sects, groups, etc.] do not agree with 1920 standard.
That means the other Qurans are not different but One. They are all happy with the One which is different from 1920 "codified" on its own quran.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Note when the presenters compared merely two of the Arabic Qurans, they discovered 1000++ differences between the two Arabic Quran. When they compared all the 26 Quran there will 1000s of differences.
If you believe that, you will believe anything. I have never heard such nonsense against the Qur'an. It has no leg to stand on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
This proved that the Arabic Quran existing around the world were not intact and exactly word for word as the original revelation revealed to Muhammad.
There are thousands of hafiz in each Muslim majority country and they have memorized the Qur'an exactly the same word by word and letter by letter. This proves that the Arabic Qur'an existing around the world is the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Without an original copy no one will ever know whether the Quran they have on their hand is the true Quran as revealed to Muhammad in 623AD.
Without an original copy of the Qur'an no one will ever know whether the 26 or 27 different qurans without any hafiz are true qurans from the 8th century.

With thousands of hafiz of the Qur'an since the Companions memorized it with Muhammad, the Qur'an in my hand today has been proven to be the true Qur'an.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
To save further embarassment I suggested the OIC should form a committee to standardize all the different Arabic Qurans existing at present.
OIC has no reason to do anything. The different qurans will soon disappear without any hafix.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The question there may be some groups who will not give way and insist their copy is the same as the true original version revealed to Muhammad in 623AD.
Don't hold your breath! Falsehood does not last very long.
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Old 08-16-2016, 11:06 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
That makes sense!
Different hafix may exist because of their fixing but not different hafiz.
Ok 'hafiz' not 'hafix'.
Theoretically, it is obvious if there are more than 26 Qurans then it is likely there will be 26 different recitations by hafiz. It is just a matter of providing the evidence which I am trying to obtain.

Here is on clue;



Translation:
Making Easy the Readings of What Has Been Sent Down

Author
Muhammad Fahd Khaaruun
The Collector of the 10 Readings
From al-Shaatebeiah and al-Dorraah and al-Taiabah

Revised by
Muhammad Kareem Ragheh
The Chief Reader of Damascus

Daar al-Beirut
Here is another that testify to the various readings.



Quote:
That proves that 26 different Qurans never existed or else there would be 27 different Qurans now or 28.
You missed my point.
The presenter in the video showed physical evidence of 26 different Arabic Qurans.
The 1924 codified version by Al-Azahar University is one of the 26 different Arabic Qurans.

Quote:
That means the other Qurans are not different but One. They are all happy with the One which is different from 1920 "codified" on its own quran.
This codifications merely indicate that all the different groups participating in this codification merely agree to compromise the differences and agree to the proposed standards.
Now what is agreed as the standard cannot be conclusively be the same as the original Quran revealed to Muhammad in 621-632AD because the original is not available for comparison.

However the earlier differences conclusively prove that differences from the original existed and prove the claims by Muslim that the present Quran is exactly the same with the original as a false claim.

In addition the existence of this 1924 codified version and the 25 Arabic Quran confirmed the present Quran is word for word [and dot for dot] the same the original is false.

Quote:
If you believe that, you will believe anything. I have never heard such nonsense against the Qur'an. It has no leg to stand on.
I have read of such investigation into the different versions of the Quran since the original starting from Uthman burning all different Qurans after Muhammad death and the Science of transmission of the Qurans and its varied versions.
I have done a refreshed research into this topic and [after my familiarity with the language and grammar] have a greater understanding of the different versions.
Yes, there are more than 20 different versions of Arabic Qurans that contain 1000s of differences between them that comprised of
1. Consonantal difference
2. Diacritic marks differences
3. Vowels differences
4. Words differences.
5. Grammar differences

Point is the majority of difference may not change the meaning of the sentences but there are differences that have an impact on the meaning.

The main point above prove the following claims of most Muslims is false;

Quote:
No other book in the world can match the Qur'an ... The astonishing fact about this book of ALLAH is that it has remained unchanged, even to a dot, over the last fourteen hundred years. ... No variation of text can be found in it.
You can check this for yourself by listening to the recitation of Muslims from different parts of the world. (Basic Principles of Islam, p. 4)
Quote:
There are thousands of hafiz in each Muslim majority country and they have memorized the Qur'an exactly the same word by word and letter by letter. This proves that the Arabic Qur'an existing around the world is the same.
Note the evidence I provided above to the clue there are different readings even by the same hafiz as recognized by the experts or even Muhammad in the Ahadith.

Quote:
Without an original copy of the Qur'an no one will ever know whether the 26 or 27 different qurans without any hafiz are true qurans from the 8th century.
That is the weakness of your claim and you cannot claim with certainty, the present Quran [s] are word for word and dot for dot the same as the original.
The facts are there exists different Arabic Qurans at present and the various circumstances proved that the present Quran in the hands of Muslims cannot word for word and dot for dot the same as the original Quran revealed to Muhammad.

Quote:
With thousands of hafiz of the Qur'an since the Companions memorized it with Muhammad, the Qur'an in my hand today has been proven to be the true Qur'an.
The evidences and arguments I provided prove you are wrong.
The Quran in your hand is probably the 1924 codified standard hafs copy by Al-Azahar University and it is one of the 26 [& others?] different Arabic Quran.

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OIC has no reason to do anything. The different qurans will soon disappear without any hafix.

Don't hold your breath! Falsehood does not last very long.
Standardization will simplify matters but it will NEVER cover up the fact that the present Arabic in Muslims hands cannot be word for word and dot for dot the same as the original Quran revealed to Muhammad.

The truth will prevail and Muslims will have to drop the following claim for truth sake;

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No other book in the world can match the Qur'an ... The astonishing fact about this book of ALLAH is that it has remained unchanged, even to a dot, over the last fourteen hundred years. ... No variation of text can be found in it. You can check this for yourself by listening to the recitation of Muslims from different parts of the world. (Basic Principles of Islam, p. 4)
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