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Old 08-17-2016, 01:20 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Even more troubling, from the Muslim perspective, are the Qur’an’s circulated by some Shi’a groups that contain two extra chapters (Suras).
Some Shi’a scholars allege that these chapters (known as Sura al-Nurayn and Sura al-Wilaya) were left out of the Qur’an during Uthman’s standardization of the text of the Qur’an.
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Old 08-17-2016, 01:42 AM
 
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Othman Ibn Affan
Islamic caliph
Burned more than 30 Mushaf
Keep in only one copy
This version was written without points on the letters

The points on the letters in the Arabic language is very important
During the reign of the Umayyad caliph Abd al-Malik Ibn Marwan and put points on the letters
In this distortion to the original Koran

Koran in lawh Is it with or without points points
character ج =ح=خ
ق=ف=
ع=غ
ظ=ط=
ذ=د
ر=ز
ن=ت
س=ش

You must know the importance of the points in the Arabic language
The original Koran was written without these points
That is why the Koran is put in writing and humans
It is not God
Mohammed wrote
The owners of Muhammad and his followers completed the message Mohammed also lying on humans
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Old 08-17-2016, 01:48 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Here is an interesting point:
The Different Arabic Versions of the Qur'an - Are all Qur'ans the same?

THE EXTENT TO WHICH THE DIFFERENCES AFFECT THE MEANING

I am often told by Muslims that the differences between these Qur'ans are only a matter of dialect, accent or pronunciation, and do not affect the meaning, however, this is clearly not the case. The examples given earlier show that the differences are far more significant: they change the subject of the sentence, whether the verb is active or passive, singular or plural, how the grammar of the sentence is to be understood, and whether or not the Basmalah is even part of the revelation at the start of each sura. These differences do affect the meaning. The evidence speaks for itself.

Subhii al-Saalih[1] summarizes the differences into seven categories.
Differences in grammatical indicator (i`raab).
Differences in consonants.
Differences in nouns as to whether they are singular, dual, plural, masculine or feminine.
Differences in which there is a substitution of one word for another.
Differences due to reversal of word order in expressions where the reversal is meaningful in the Arabic language in general or in the structure of the expression in particular.
Differences due to some small addition or deletion in accordance with the custom of the Arabs.
Differences due to dialectical peculiarities.
We can also add to this list the difference in the status of the Basmalah.
Therefore, the claim that these differences are just a matter of dialect and do not affect the meaning is false. The evidence speaks for itself.
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Old 08-17-2016, 02:12 AM
 
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The oldest thanks and respect to them
They are looking honestly and fully and Baalmip Academy
I am ashamed of knowing
They do not know Arabic.
But in our Eastern Churches

Hundreds of priests
But these are lazy
The researchers think that these better than Middle bishops
They are looking for the truth
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Old 08-17-2016, 03:24 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Ok 'hafiz' not 'hafix'.
Theoretically, it is obvious if there are more than 26 Qurans then it is likely there will be 26 different recitations by hafiz. It is just a matter of providing the evidence which I am trying to obtain.

Here is on clue;



Translation:
Making Easy the Readings of What Has Been Sent Down

Author
Muhammad Fahd Khaaruun
The Collector of the 10 Readings
From al-Shaatebeiah and al-Dorraah and al-Taiabah

Revised by
Muhammad Kareem Ragheh
The Chief Reader of Damascus

Daar al-Beirut
Here is another that testify to the various readings.
These are not the different qurans but about reading and explanations about the Qur'an.
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Old 08-17-2016, 03:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Even more troubling, from the Muslim perspective, are the Qur’an’s circulated by some Shi’a groups that contain two extra chapters (Suras).
Some Shi’a scholars allege that these chapters (known as Sura al-Nurayn and Sura al-Wilaya) were left out of the Qur’an during Uthman’s standardization of the text of the Qur’an.
"Some shia groups"?

Absolute nonsense!

Ali is their Imam. Ali accepted the Uthman Qur'an to be the valid Qur'an and he too had the same Qur'an. Any Shia who does not accept Uthman and Ali Qur'an is not a Shia but fake shia.
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Old 08-17-2016, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I am not aware of any Si'ite or Sunni that believe Shi'a use a different Qur'an. My oldest Grand Children are Shi'ite and use the very same Qur'an I do. I self identify as being Sunni, but admit to having Sufi leanings.

Many Shi'ite seem to be aware of that allegation and some state it is a lie spread by Christian Missionaries to cause discord.


Quote:
2. The Shi'ite Sources

In the section "The Belief Concerning The Extent (Mablagh) Of The Qur'an" Abu Ja`far, the well-known Shi'ite theologian of 4th century of hijra says:

Says the Shaykh Abu Ja`far: Our belief is that the Qur'an, which Allah revealed to his Prophet Muhammad is (the same as) the one between the two boards (daffatayn). And it is that which is in the hands of the people, and is not greater extent than that. The number of suras as generally accepted is one hundred and fourteen.[3]

And again:

And he who asserts that we say it is greater in extent than this (the present text) is a liar.[4]

This would have been a proof good enough to stop here and dismiss what the missionaries are claiming about the "Qur'an" which Shi'ites have. But let us go further and expose the deceptive methodology. Momen, talking about the two surahs mentioned above, says:

A small minority of Shi'is have attempted to get much larger passages (and even the whole suras) accepted as being missing portions of the Qur'an but without success.[5]

Quoting the history of the Shi'ite belief regarding the Qur'an, Momen says:

With regards to the question of the text of the Qur'an, it has already been noted that the early Shi'is believed that the Qur'an has been altered and parts of it has been suppressed. The Nawbakhtis are said to have adhered to this view although it went against their usual position of agreeing with Mu'tazili thought. The compiler of the earliest, authoritative collection of Twelver Traditions, al-Kulyani, seems to have given some substance to this view in several of the Traditions that he relates. Ibn Babuya, however, takes the position that the text of the Qur'an is complete and unaltered. Al-Mufid appears to have wavered somewhat on this point during his lifetime. He seems to have accepted the fact that parts of the Qur'an had been excised by the enemies of the Imams in some of his early writings, although he refused even then to state that anything had been added. In his later writings, however, al-Mufid had reinterpreted the concept of omissions from the text of the Qur'an to mean that the text of the Qur'an is complete (although he does allow that the order needs to be changed) but that what has been omitted is the authoritative interpretation of the text by `Ali. In this manner, al-Mufid and most subsequent Shi'i writers were able to fall into line with the rest of the Islamic world in accepting the text of the Qur'an as contained in the recension of `Uthman.[6]

Surah al-Nurayn & Surah al-Wilayah: Their Authenticity & Literary Style
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Old 08-18-2016, 12:21 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
These are not the different qurans but about reading and explanations about the Qur'an.
You don't seem to understand the points.

"Readings" re Quran in this case meant the different Qurans which has put into texts.
In this case there are 10 different Qurans.

What the author has done was to compile them into one book and the differences are listed by the side.

Note the book never implied explanation of the meaning of the verses.
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Old 08-18-2016, 12:26 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I am not aware of any Si'ite or Sunni that believe Shi'a use a different Qur'an. My oldest Grand Children are Shi'ite and use the very same Qur'an I do. I self identify as being Sunni, but admit to having Sufi leanings.

Many Shi'ite seem to be aware of that allegation and some state it is a lie spread by Christian Missionaries to cause discord.
I don't the link I quoted is from a Christian.

Usually one view from one source is insufficient to confirm the situation.
I will need further research and confirmation from various views on this.
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Old 08-18-2016, 01:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
You don't seem to understand the points.

"Readings" re Quran in this case meant the different Qurans which has put into texts.
In this case there are 10 different Qurans.

What the author has done was to compile them into one book and the differences are listed by the side.

Note the book never implied explanation of the meaning of the verses.
You know it well but don't seem to accept my statement that these are not "different Qur'ans" but books about the reading of the Qur'an.

In other words, books "about" the Qur'an does not mean books called Qurans.
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