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Old 11-24-2016, 06:36 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,041,478 times
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They are getting mental illness by attacking Islam.

Like you, they can't tell the difference between the Arabic letter qaf ق and the Arabic letter kaf ك.
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Old 01-20-2018, 01:56 PM
 
2 posts, read 493 times
Reputation: 10
Default Haf quran and Hafs hadith

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
I did listen to the whole of it. It was quite amusing to see ignorant people talking about the Qur'an. They can't even read Arabic, how are they to know the difference?

It is a false claim. If there had been different Qur'an, there would be many hafiz reciting different in words and letters. There are no such hafiz, never have been.

The attack on the Qur'an is simply because of the fact that this is the only book that is word by word the Word of God. It is the Rock of Islam. I like it, I like it, I like it and will like it for as long as I live. Thank God I am a Muslim!

Video has proven nothing. No hafiz is reciting any other quran than the Qur'an.

Which publishers in the world? Christian publishers?

All Muslim publishers print the same Arabic Qur'an as the main press in Madina. There are thousands of the Arabic Qur'an copies printed in ALL main Muslim countries. I have seen them from Pakistan and even India (where millions of Muslims live) as well as from Al Fahd press in Madina. They are all same word by word. The Arabic Qur'an I used to read 60 years ago was exactly the same as available today.

This is one subject that non-Muslims will fail in.

I am trying to understand why the Hafs edition (or 7 the editions) of the quran are unequivocally accepted, embraced and approved as the truth, yet Hafs' hadith are categorically and completely rejected, 100% of it?

I understood that Hafs hadith were rejected, according to Bukhari and other scholars because he was a liar and a thief and could not be trusted. If his hadith were rejected for moral and ethical reasons, why was his quran not also rejected for the same moral and ethical reasons?
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Old 01-20-2018, 03:21 PM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,041,478 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by pyelyt View Post
I am trying to understand why the Hafs edition (or 7 the editions) of the quran are unequivocally accepted, embraced and approved as the truth, yet Hafs' hadith are categorically and completely rejected, 100% of it?

I understood that Hafs hadith were rejected, according to Bukhari and other scholars because he was a liar and a thief and could not be trusted. If his hadith were rejected for moral and ethical reasons, why was his quran not also rejected for the same moral and ethical reasons?
I am not quite sure what you are asking but assume that you are asking about the difference in the Qur'an and hadith books.

The Qur'an is also described as the Best Hadith. The word in Arabic used by any saying of Allah/God (revelations from God) is mentioned in the Qur'an as "Al-Hadith". Other saying of men is described as just "hadith" حَدِيث (never as "Al-Hadith" الْحَدِيث).

The Qur'an is from God. The hadith books are not from God but from men. The Qur'an is approved by God as well as His messenger. Hadith books are not approved by either God or His messenger.
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Old 02-05-2018, 07:43 AM
 
2 posts, read 493 times
Reputation: 10
Default Haf quran and Hafs hadith

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
I am not quite sure what you are asking but assume that you are asking about the difference in the Qur'an and hadith books.

The Qur'an is also described as the Best Hadith. The word in Arabic used by any saying of Allah/God (revelations from God) is mentioned in the Qur'an as "Al-Hadith". Other saying of men is described as just "hadith" حَدِيث (never as "Al-Hadith" الْحَدِيث).

The Qur'an is from God. The hadith books are not from God but from men. The Qur'an is approved by God as well as His messenger. Hadith books are not approved by either God or His messenger.

The question is simple. Why is Hafs' hadith wholly and categorically rejected while Hafs' quran is unequivocally accepted? Why is the same scholar's work both rejected and accepted?
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Old 02-05-2018, 01:38 PM
 
1 posts, read 226 times
Reputation: 11
Several comments in this thread make a big deal about how "reliable" the recitations by a Hafiz of the Quran are.

I have studied and worked in science [The "hard sciences" (natural/physical sciences) as they are called compared to the social sciences.] and pharmaceutical industry for most of my life. Human memory is THE LEAST RELIABLE when it comes to the reliability of records. For example, I will issue a citation for violation of the Current Good Manufacturing Practices (cGMP) if I see a scientist testing a pharmaceutical product (drug, medicine) or any of its components (starting materials, etc.) WITHOUT HAVING A WRITTEN PROCEDURE next to him/her. Performing a test on any of these materials "based on human memory" is UNACCEPTABLE based on the Federal Drug Administration guidelines in the United States of America. Canada, Europe, Asia, and other regions and countries in the world have similar standards and guidelines. Good documentation practices and record keeping are a part of cGMP.

The human brain [the "device" (organ) used for memorizing and storing information] is inherently imperfect (deficient). Yes, the human brain is not perfect and its not "fail proof". Humans frequently fail to memorize correctly and fail to retrieve (recall) the archived (stored) information correctly and perfectly. Remember, how frequently people forget their keys, take a wrong turn, forget to take medicine, etc. The brain weakens and deteriorates (ages) with age, illness, shock, etc. Scientists as well as non-scientists (doctors, nurses, and other humans) know these facts very well. No wonder testing a medicine using a test procedure that somebody may have memorized is "unacceptable".
Now getting back to the notion that a Hafiz of Quran is "absolutely" reliable in the "record keeping" and no mistakes are possible. This notion is simply not true, is inconsistent with the practical knowledge and science, and is based on arrogance.

There was a time when memorization was the best "method" of record keeping as no better alternatives (writing, printing, computer archiving, etc.) were available. However, this does not mean that memorization is still (and was during different times of the human history) the absolute and perfect method of record keeping.

It is noteworthy that Muslims were/are not the first or the only who memorize/memorized their religious book (Quran). Centuries before Mohammed, Jews memorized The Holy Bible and still a lot of Jews and Christians memorize at least some parts of The Holy Bible.

The "Hafiz of Quran" are rare (very few and uncommon) in the world compared to the impression that the comments on this site and Muslims in general give to the Non-Muslims. I grew up in a highly populated country (5th most populous country in the world) where Muslims have a very high majority and I came across (lived along side) a lot of Muslims. So far I came across ONLY TWO "HAFIZ" OF QURAN in my entire life. One was my classmate at the big university I graduated from and the other was the principal of the big government college I graduated from. Most people even cannot read Arabic.
My personal copy of the Glorious Quran (Arabic with English translation and commentary) was originally published in Turkey not in Medina, Saudi Arabia. The reprint (the 80th edition) I have was published (printed?) in Piscataway, New Jersey, USA.

I am a follower of The Lord Jesus Christ and do not believe in the Quran as the Inspired Word of The Almighty God (YAHWEH).

Overall the argument and justification that the Quran has been and still is memorized by devout Muslims and therefore, is error free just do not hold! The PROOF is that there are AT LEAST TWENTY-SIX (or may be more) DIFFERENT QURANS IN ARABIC (NOT TRANSLATION) that Muslims read and use in different parts of the world AT THIS TIME! These different Qurans are printed and published by Muslims and people in this video just bought copies of these various Qurans from the market in different parts of the world.
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Old 02-07-2018, 01:37 AM
 
4,431 posts, read 1,651,680 times
Reputation: 1543
Quote:
Originally Posted by riasatmobashar View Post
Several comments in this thread make a big deal about how "reliable" the recitations by a Hafiz of the Quran are.

I have studied and worked in science [The "hard sciences" (natural/physical sciences) as they are called compared to the social sciences.] and pharmaceutical industry for most of my life. Human memory is THE LEAST RELIABLE when it comes to the reliability of records. For example, I will issue a citation for violation of the Current Good Manufacturing Practices (cGMP) if I see a scientist testing a pharmaceutical product (drug, medicine) or any of its components (starting materials, etc.) WITHOUT HAVING A WRITTEN PROCEDURE next to him/her. Performing a test on any of these materials "based on human memory" is UNACCEPTABLE based on the Federal Drug Administration guidelines in the United States of America. Canada, Europe, Asia, and other regions and countries in the world have similar standards and guidelines. Good documentation practices and record keeping are a part of cGMP.

The human brain [the "device" (organ) used for memorizing and storing information] is inherently imperfect (deficient). Yes, the human brain is not perfect and its not "fail proof". Humans frequently fail to memorize correctly and fail to retrieve (recall) the archived (stored) information correctly and perfectly. Remember, how frequently people forget their keys, take a wrong turn, forget to take medicine, etc. The brain weakens and deteriorates (ages) with age, illness, shock, etc. Scientists as well as non-scientists (doctors, nurses, and other humans) know these facts very well. No wonder testing a medicine using a test procedure that somebody may have memorized is "unacceptable".
Now getting back to the notion that a Hafiz of Quran is "absolutely" reliable in the "record keeping" and no mistakes are possible. This notion is simply not true, is inconsistent with the practical knowledge and science, and is based on arrogance.

There was a time when memorization was the best "method" of record keeping as no better alternatives (writing, printing, computer archiving, etc.) were available. However, this does not mean that memorization is still (and was during different times of the human history) the absolute and perfect method of record keeping.

It is noteworthy that Muslims were/are not the first or the only who memorize/memorized their religious book (Quran). Centuries before Mohammed, Jews memorized The Holy Bible and still a lot of Jews and Christians memorize at least some parts of The Holy Bible.

The "Hafiz of Quran" are rare (very few and uncommon) in the world compared to the impression that the comments on this site and Muslims in general give to the Non-Muslims. I grew up in a highly populated country (5th most populous country in the world) where Muslims have a very high majority and I came across (lived along side) a lot of Muslims. So far I came across ONLY TWO "HAFIZ" OF QURAN in my entire life. One was my classmate at the big university I graduated from and the other was the principal of the big government college I graduated from. Most people even cannot read Arabic.
My personal copy of the Glorious Quran (Arabic with English translation and commentary) was originally published in Turkey not in Medina, Saudi Arabia. The reprint (the 80th edition) I have was published (printed?) in Piscataway, New Jersey, USA.

I am a follower of The Lord Jesus Christ and do not believe in the Quran as the Inspired Word of The Almighty God (YAHWEH).

Overall the argument and justification that the Quran has been and still is memorized by devout Muslims and therefore, is error free just do not hold! The PROOF is that there are AT LEAST TWENTY-SIX (or may be more) DIFFERENT QURANS IN ARABIC (NOT TRANSLATION) that Muslims read and use in different parts of the world AT THIS TIME! These different Qurans are printed and published by Muslims and people in this video just bought copies of these various Qurans from the market in different parts of the world.
and then?
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Old 03-09-2018, 03:35 PM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,041,478 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by pyelyt View Post
The question is simple. Why is Hafs' hadith wholly and categorically rejected while Hafs' quran is unequivocally accepted? Why is the same scholar's work both rejected and accepted?
Hadith and the Qur'an are not the work of the same scholar.

Hadith is not the same as al-Hadith.

Hadith is saying of someone other than God and al-Hadith (for example the Qur'an) is always the word of God.

A man's word can be untrue but God's word is never untrue.
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Old 03-09-2018, 03:41 PM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,041,478 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by riasatmobashar View Post
Several comments in this thread make a big deal about how "reliable" the recitations by a Hafiz of the Quran are.

I have studied and worked in science [The "hard sciences" (natural/physical sciences) as they are called compared to the social sciences.] and pharmaceutical industry for most of my life. Human memory is THE LEAST RELIABLE when it comes to the reliability of records. For example, I will issue a citation for violation of the Current Good Manufacturing Practices (cGMP) if I see a scientist testing a pharmaceutical product (drug, medicine) or any of its components (starting materials, etc.) WITHOUT HAVING A WRITTEN PROCEDURE next to him/her. Performing a test on any of these materials "based on human memory" is UNACCEPTABLE based on the Federal Drug Administration guidelines in the United States of America. Canada, Europe, Asia, and other regions and countries in the world have similar standards and guidelines. Good documentation practices and record keeping are a part of cGMP.

The human brain [the "device" (organ) used for memorizing and storing information] is inherently imperfect (deficient). Yes, the human brain is not perfect and its not "fail proof". Humans frequently fail to memorize correctly and fail to retrieve (recall) the archived (stored) information correctly and perfectly. Remember, how frequently people forget their keys, take a wrong turn, forget to take medicine, etc. The brain weakens and deteriorates (ages) with age, illness, shock, etc. Scientists as well as non-scientists (doctors, nurses, and other humans) know these facts very well. No wonder testing a medicine using a test procedure that somebody may have memorized is "unacceptable".
Now getting back to the notion that a Hafiz of Quran is "absolutely" reliable in the "record keeping" and no mistakes are possible. This notion is simply not true, is inconsistent with the practical knowledge and science, and is based on arrogance.

There was a time when memorization was the best "method" of record keeping as no better alternatives (writing, printing, computer archiving, etc.) were available. However, this does not mean that memorization is still (and was during different times of the human history) the absolute and perfect method of record keeping.

It is noteworthy that Muslims were/are not the first or the only who memorize/memorized their religious book (Quran). Centuries before Mohammed, Jews memorized The Holy Bible and still a lot of Jews and Christians memorize at least some parts of The Holy Bible.

The "Hafiz of Quran" are rare (very few and uncommon) in the world compared to the impression that the comments on this site and Muslims in general give to the Non-Muslims. I grew up in a highly populated country (5th most populous country in the world) where Muslims have a very high majority and I came across (lived along side) a lot of Muslims. So far I came across ONLY TWO "HAFIZ" OF QURAN in my entire life. One was my classmate at the big university I graduated from and the other was the principal of the big government college I graduated from. Most people even cannot read Arabic.
My personal copy of the Glorious Quran (Arabic with English translation and commentary) was originally published in Turkey not in Medina, Saudi Arabia. The reprint (the 80th edition) I have was published (printed?) in Piscataway, New Jersey, USA.

I am a follower of The Lord Jesus Christ and do not believe in the Quran as the Inspired Word of The Almighty God (YAHWEH).

Overall the argument and justification that the Quran has been and still is memorized by devout Muslims and therefore, is error free just do not hold! The PROOF is that there are AT LEAST TWENTY-SIX (or may be more) DIFFERENT QURANS IN ARABIC (NOT TRANSLATION) that Muslims read and use in different parts of the world AT THIS TIME! These different Qurans are printed and published by Muslims and people in this video just bought copies of these various Qurans from the market in different parts of the world.
You have only one personal copy of the Qur'an?
Come back after you make the other AT EAST TWENTY-FIVE too your personal copies. Then you would make informed claim.
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