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Old 01-03-2017, 04:35 AM
 
3,166 posts, read 1,036,848 times
Reputation: 289

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Re the following points;

If you read the few verses in context, my reference specifically to 'Muslim' and "Muslims" is correct especially the term 'good works' which definitely do not refer to infidels.
Not ALL Muslims do good works and many Jews and Christians too do 'good works'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Your views are too wide in this case, thus wrong.
It cannot be ALL Jews and Christians as most Jews and Christians then were not following the original revelations from Allah [as claimed] but the corrupted texts.
By ALL is meant all Jews, Christians and Muslims who do good works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
If any Jew and Christians are following their original revelations from Allah, they are also Muslim [i.e. proto-Muslims]. So in this case my use of "Muslim" is correct anyway. So I am believing that is true.
You are stretching here. In the Qur'aan, Jews and Christians are called People of the Book. People of earlier revelations. They were Muslims once they accepted the revelation of the Qur'aan is from Allah or else they stayed as people of the Book.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
My hypothesis is,
In parallel to the above research studies,
exposure to the evil and violence element within 3,400++ verses i.e. 55% of the Quran will have adverse effect on some Muslims who are naturally born with an active evil tendency to trigger them to commit evils and the violence to please Allah with the hope to go to Paradise expeditiously.

Any counter argument for the above?
All have potential to commit evil. Those Muslims (a vast the majority) who do not do evil acts after reading the verses of the Qur'aan, understand well that these verses do not command committing evil acts but command doing good acts. Only those commit evil acts who do not understand the Qur'aan. They do it in ignorance of the teachings of the Qur'aan.

This crap, about evil verses in the Qur'aan,, you slyly call evil elements in the Qur'aan, is nothing but ignorance about the Qur'aan. I too have potential to commit evil but the Qur'aan has taught me not to use that potential by controlling my nafs and using it for the good of humanity.
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Old 01-03-2017, 11:28 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,944 times
Reputation: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
The word "infidel" is not from Muslims but probably from Christian Crusaders.

In the Qur'aan, the word "kuffar" (plural of kafir) is reserved for those who understood what was meant by Allah but knowingly tried to cover the truth plus they were hostile and offensive to Muslims both in words and in action. This is why not all the Jews are called "kuffar" in the Qur'aan but only those who were offensive both in words and actions to the revelation of the Qur'aan.

They were mainly one group that was offensive towards the Qur'aan.
-------------------------------------
Religion of Abraham, Jacob, Moses, David, Jesus and Muhammad was the same, "islam", submitting to Allah.
OK
Infidel is every human being is not a Muslim
That is why the fight against the infidels Halal
And the teachings of the Koran and clear

Why the fighting to allow the infidels
Where are the religious freedom
Every man is not a Muslim is an infidel and is impure
Do you think that this education to the benefit of humanity --------------------
-------------------
If you think the Christian infidel and unbeliever Buddhist
For this reason, it is their right to hold you you're an infidel also
------------------------
Religion Muhammadiyah not belong to Abraham
-------------------
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Old 01-04-2017, 01:01 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,582,067 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Not ALL Muslims do good works and many Jews and Christians too do 'good works'.

By ALL is meant all Jews, Christians and Muslims who do good works.
Nope.

The term is addressed to ALL Muslims as a general rule and obligations.
It is like ALL of humankind are to ya'budu Allah alone which is a general rule.
But in practice not all will ya'budu Allah as expected.

Quote:
You are stretching here. In the Qur'aan, Jews and Christians are called People of the Book. People of earlier revelations. They were Muslims once they accepted the revelation of the Qur'aan is from Allah or else they stayed as people of the Book.
The Book or the People of the Book were from Allah.
Therefore right from the beginning the People of the Book were Muslims, i.e. proto-Muslims.
It is only later when corruption set in that they are no more Muslims but they are still called People of the Book [corrupted infidels] due to past associations.

Quote:
All have potential to commit evil. Those Muslims (a vast the majority) who do not do evil acts after reading the verses of the Qur'aan, understand well that these verses do not command committing evil acts but command doing good acts. Only those commit evil acts who do not understand the Qur'aan. They do it in ignorance of the teachings of the Qur'aan.
That is not the fact.
The fact is there are by literal definition, evil laden elements in the Quran.
Some these verses with evil elements are related to the expectations of Allah.

Note it is only from outside the scope of the Quran that some evil laden verses are interpreted as carrying doctrinal intent of 'evil' from a universal morality perspective. Obviously Allah and all Muslims must deem 100% of the verses in the Quran are righteous and has good intents and do not promote evil.

Why this is so is because the Quran was in reality authored by a person or group of people. This is why there are verses with evil intent.

The majority of Muslims who are good are not influenced by those verses which has evil intent. It is just like the majority of people who are exposed to violence in the media, news and movies do not turn to be evil people in the long run.

But the fact is the evil laden verses in the Quran [authored by person(s)] do influence the vulnerable evil prone Muslims who are unfortunately born with an active evil tendency.

Quote:
This crap, about evil verses in the Qur'aan,, you slyly call evil elements in the Qur'aan, is nothing but ignorance about the Qur'aan. I too have potential to commit evil but the Qur'aan has taught me not to use that potential by controlling my nafs and using it for the good of humanity.
Note I have defined what I meant by 'evil' and 'evil elements' 'evil laden' evil prone.

"Evil" is the quality of the deeds of a person that is net-negative to the well being of the individual and humanity therefrom.

What is 'evil' is opposite to what is 'good'.

For example 'kill' in general is an evil element in offensive mode. Other terms related to evil are steal, lying, cheating, etc. Killing in some cases may be necessary in defensive mode, if one job is legal execution, etc. In this case such deed are not net-negative to the individual and humanity.

You may have good qualities but what about the unavoidable reality that 20% of humans are unfortunately born with an active tendencies to commit evil, e.g. kill, injure, lie, cheat, steal oppress others, bullying, tormenting, commit violence, etc. 20% meant 300 millions Muslims who are potential in this category.
The fact is there is no quick cure to turn these 300 millions to be good immediately or in the next 50 to 200 years.

You tell me how are you going to address this problem of them being influenced to commit evils when they are exposed to those evil laden verses in the Quran.
This is a fact because many Muslims are quoting the various verses from the Quran to justify their evil acts.
You keep saying they are wrong, but there is nothing you can do about it because you cannot judge on Allah's behalf.
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Old 01-05-2017, 11:12 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,944 times
Reputation: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Nope.

The term is addressed to ALL Muslims as a general rule and obligations.
It is like ALL of humankind are to ya'budu Allah alone which is a general rule.
But in practice not all will ya'budu Allah as expected.

The Book or the People of the Book were from Allah.
Therefore right from the beginning the People of the Book were Muslims, i.e. proto-Muslims.
It is only later when corruption set in that they are no more Muslims but they are still called People of the Book [corrupted infidels] due to past associations.

That is not the fact.
The fact is there are by literal definition, evil laden elements in the Quran.
Some these verses with evil elements are related to the expectations of Allah.

Note it is only from outside the scope of the Quran that some evil laden verses are interpreted as carrying doctrinal intent of 'evil' from a universal morality perspective. Obviously Allah and all Muslims must deem 100% of the verses in the Quran are righteous and has good intents and do not promote evil.

Why this is so is because the Quran was in reality authored by a person or group of people. This is why there are verses with evil intent.

The majority of Muslims who are good are not influenced by those verses which has evil intent. It is just like the majority of people who are exposed to violence in the media, news and movies do not turn to be evil people in the long run.

But the fact is the evil laden verses in the Quran [authored by person(s)] do influence the vulnerable evil prone Muslims who are unfortunately born with an active evil tendency.

Note I have defined what I meant by 'evil' and 'evil elements' 'evil laden' evil prone.

"Evil" is the quality of the deeds of a person that is net-negative to the well being of the individual and humanity therefrom.

What is 'evil' is opposite to what is 'good'.

For example 'kill' in general is an evil element in offensive mode. Other terms related to evil are steal, lying, cheating, etc. Killing in some cases may be necessary in defensive mode, if one job is legal execution, etc. In this case such deed are not net-negative to the individual and humanity.

You may have good qualities but what about the unavoidable reality that 20% of humans are unfortunately born with an active tendencies to commit evil, e.g. kill, injure, lie, cheat, steal oppress others, bullying, tormenting, commit violence, etc. 20% meant 300 millions Muslims who are potential in this category.
The fact is there is no quick cure to turn these 300 millions to be good immediately or in the next 50 to 200 years.

You tell me how are you going to address this problem of them being influenced to commit evils when they are exposed to those evil laden verses in the Quran.
This is a fact because many Muslims are quoting the various verses from the Quran to justify their evil acts.
You keep saying they are wrong, but there is nothing you can do about it because you cannot judge on Allah's behalf.
It is a major humanitarian problem
It is a difficult disease such as cancer
And humanity must find cure to this disease
The best treatment is prevention
Human and prevention of the disease
Through awareness campaigns
In all corners of the earth
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