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Old 08-21-2016, 06:33 AM
 
352 posts, read 308,370 times
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Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim. As salaamu alaykum.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
I suggest you educate yourself on human nature and even understanding your own human nature.

Fact is there is no such thing as absolute or totally free freewill.

I repeatedly state evil prone individuals are born with active evil tendencies and they are compelled and driven unconsciously to commit evil given the opportunity.

Btw, these evil prone Muslims do not think what they are committing are evil at all. These evil prone Muslims are acting on the belief that they are good true Muslims acting in accordance to Allah's command as they sincerely believe it will please Allah.

The other question is YOU and others do not have the divine authority to judge they [the evil prone Muslims] are doing wrong or committing evils from the Quran perspective.

Quote:
I suggest you educate yourself on human nature and even understanding your own human nature.
I am fully aware of my own human nature. I have made the necessary choices that will facilitate survival in this world and the higher Spiritual life of the higher worlds.


Quote:
Fact is there is no such thing as absolute or totally free freewill.
This is an obvious misnomer. Would you like to try to explain what it means?


Quote:
You repeatedly make reference to evil prone individuals as if they need to commit an act of evil.

Quote:
I repeatedly state evil prone individuals are born with active evil tendencies and they are compelled and driven unconsciously to commit evil given the opportunity.

Btw, these evil prone Muslims do not think what they are committing are evil at all. These evil prone Muslims are acting on the belief that they are good true Muslims acting in accordance to Allah's command as they sincerely believe it will please Allah.
I'm sure that you know better. These people are brainwashed, and brain dead. They are no better than robotized machinery. They are under severe duress. Narcotized.

Quote:
The other question is YOU and others do not have the divine authority to judge they [the evil prone Muslims] are doing wrong or committing evils from the Quran perspective.

Given, that many may be in desperate straits. It's all about proper use of the will. The innate free will given us, is not to be used for stupidity. The Wise Ancients would say: "Chose ye right, chose ye wrong, chose."

Last edited by devotee; 08-21-2016 at 06:56 AM..
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Old 08-21-2016, 08:20 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 662,085 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Definitely political! This is politics of Middle East. Israel is political creation. Attack and destruction of Iraq was political based on a lie to remove Saddam and bring democracy in Iraq.

Bin Laden was clear in his given reason. It was because of Middle East politics and attacks from America. This is the primary reason. Only a blind person will not see it as politics.
Are you from Palestine
Are you a Muslim
That is why Islam teach hatred of Jews
The State of Israel inhabited by the children of Israel, four thousand years ago
It is the right of Israel to defend itself, especially from Islamic terrorism
Are America and the policy was also in Turkey
100 years ago when the Turks killed a million Muslims Christian east
Islam produces leaders since the terror spread by the sword
Omar Ibn Khattab
Hajjaj Ibn Yusuf
The killing of Hassan and Hussein
Is America participated in the killing of Hassan and Hussein, Muhammad's descendants
History and Islamic terrorism large book
long history
Saudis are Muslims America's friends
America has provided protection to the Muslims in Bosnia
America is fighting for their own interests and oil
Muslims spread the terror of the world's compulsion to accept the message Mohammed
And Mohammed is a very big terrorist Sheikh
As he watched the slaughter of Jewish people view
And his successors are doing the same thing, my friend
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Old 08-21-2016, 08:48 AM
 
352 posts, read 308,370 times
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Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim. As salaamu alaykum. My earlier post above should have read "The Wise Ancients would say: "Choose ye right, choose ye wrong, choose.""
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Old 08-21-2016, 09:57 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,371 posts, read 1,503,305 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Depends on which nation you are in. In non-Western Nations Christians are often seen as being the Terrorists. Particularly in the Strongly Hindu regions of India, North Korea and the Tribal Religion regions of Africa. also in predominately Muslim Nations Christians are believed to be Terrorists.

As Ambrose Bierce defined Infidel: In New York it is somebody who lives in Constantinople. In Constantinople it is somebody who lives in New York.

In other words it is a matter of perspective.


A few groups that non-Christians view as being Christian Terrorists

6 modern-day Christian terrorist groups our media conveniently ignores - Salon.com
Yes, religion, particularly the desert trio, is the problem. No doubt there are Christians killing and persecuting Muslims, but to deny that Islam has a problem - or to equivocate is to be in denial. Day after day - Turkey yesterday, in both the developed and undeveloped world, violence is advocated, by a sizable minority of people claiming to be Muslim. As for 'infidel' (notwithstanding Bierce's drollery) - it's an archaic term that has no serious place in the 21st century. It's a bit like calling someone a 'heretic'. Christ (pun), call out Torquemada.
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Old 08-21-2016, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,286,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modernist1 View Post
Yes, religion, particularly the desert trio, is the problem. No doubt there are Christians killing and persecuting Muslims, but to deny that Islam has a problem - or to equivocate is to be in denial. Day after day - Turkey yesterday, in both the developed and undeveloped world, violence is advocated, by a sizable minority of people claiming to be Muslim. As for 'infidel' (notwithstanding Bierce's drollery) - it's an archaic term that has no serious place in the 21st century. It's a bit like calling someone a 'heretic'. Christ (pun), call out Torquemada.

I begin with addressing a point I agree with. "As for 'infidel' (notwithstanding Bierce's drollery) - it's an archaic term that has no serious place in the 21st century." it is also an inaccurate translation of the Arabic word Kafir.

I do not see Islam as having a problem, I see individual Muslims as having serious problems and misunderstanding what Islam is..Some try to make into an organized religion with unquestionable doctrine and unswerving commands. However, Islam is extremely flexible and not only open to questioning, but requires we question all things. The only unquestionable doctrine is that the actual recited Tajweed Arabic Qur'an is the actual words as spoken by Allaah(swt). The interpretations and understandings of what they mean are open to debate and we are to question the meanings implied, or specific. Islam is based upon personal responsibility in all matters. We alone are to question the righteousness of all actions and thoughts we have or do. We do not have the option of saying we were misled. It is our responsibility to verify the legitimacy and truth of all things. We are not to be blind followers.

Yes all Muslims do share 5 pillars of faith and 7 common beliefs. They are listed in levels of responsibility. The First one in each is the only one that is absolutely required to be Muslim and even then both are dependent upon our level of understanding and accessibility to knowledge about. The "First Pillar of Faith" to say with understanding that There is only one God, and Muhammad is his messenger. But even that is qualified by our ability and opportunity to know. A person that has no way of knowing about it or the ability of saying and understanding it, is not excluded from Islam. The First common belief is "Belief in the existence of God. again that is in accordance with what the person has access to know and understand.

My point being, Islam is very flexible and open to scrutiny. We alone are responsible to determine if our actions are morally right. The Qur'an is a guide, not a textbook of do and Don't do. It is our responsibility to verify the right and wrong of all things.
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Old 08-21-2016, 11:57 AM
 
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Yes. Next question?
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Old 08-21-2016, 01:25 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,371 posts, read 1,503,305 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144 View Post
Yes. Next question?
Very good.
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Old 08-21-2016, 01:35 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,371 posts, read 1,503,305 times
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Woodrow, I appreciate your sincere response. You constantly speak of the lack of accountability (to others) among Muslims, the focus on the individual actor. Yet, again and again we see people claiming to be Muslims advocating or performing acts of violence, in concert. Presumably the terrible suicide bombing in Turkey yesterday, in which a child reportedly detonated the bomb, was more of the same. Perhaps the fact that that story wasn't the front page news, in the West, isn't just just myopia or Western self interest, but the fact that expectations are lower. Isn't that in some way telling re the propensity for violence (among a sizable minority) in the Islamic world? And if so, why?

Last edited by modernist1; 08-21-2016 at 03:02 PM..
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Old 08-21-2016, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,286,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modernist1 View Post
Woodrow, I appreciate your sincere response. You constantly speak of the lack of accountability (to others) among Muslims, the focus on the individual actor. Yet, again and again, in recent years, we see people claiming to be Muslims advocating or performing acts of violence, in concert. Presumably the terrible suicide bombing in Turkey yesterday, in which a child reportedly detonated the bomb, was more of the same.
On a slight tangent, perhaps the fact that that story wasn't the front page news, in the West, isn't just just regional myopia or Western self interest, but the fact that expectations are lower. Isn't that in some way telling re the propensity for violence (among a sizable minority) in the Islamic world?
People do have an almost universal need or desire to do things in concert with others. Which may explain why virtually all Muslim terrorists have been members of quasi-military organization such as ISIS, Boko-Haram, etc. Birds of a feather, flock together. With about 1.7 billion of us it only takes a small percentage to result in a large group of maniacs. What surprises me is that the Maniacs are almost exclusivly Mideastern Muslims, which are the smallest demographic group among Muslims. Less than 20% of the world's Muslims have Mideastern ancestry.

As for Suicide bombings an the like I have personal knowledge of, were those done by Viet Cong in Vietnam during the 1960s. I can recall young mothers in Saigong putting grnades in their Baby's diaper, then approach Young American soldiers and sevretly pulling the pin on the grenade. Also rember the "Suicide waves that over an DaNang. (I was not at DaNang at the time but saw the aftermath and what seemed like an endless road of bodies.) It reached the point where you had to suspect everyone of being a suicide bomber, even 5 year old children. We ended up with being labelled "Baby Killers" but them Babies were quite dangerous and capable of killing. I was blessed as nearly all of my direct combat was fought from the air. Suicide bombers are a very effective, low cost weapon that instills much terror. It is the weapon of choice by many despots, not just Muslims. The "Tamil Tigers" (A Hindu Group) are probably the epitome of Suicide bombers. The Tamil Tigers - TIME

Going back to the original comment: "but the fact that expectations are lower. Isn't that in some way telling re the propensity for violence (among a sizable minority) in the Islamic world?"

It is more telling the world that ISIS (Islamic State) is an Enemy of all people. Although in this case the Target was not Muslims, but Kurds which most likely were Yazidi But the fact is they committed the crime in an Islamic Nation. Possibly with the goal of causing friction between Muslim and non-Muslim Turks.

Turkey wedding suicide bomber 'was child aged 12-14' - BBC News
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Old 08-21-2016, 10:13 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,584,535 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devotee View Post
Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim. As salaamu alaykum.

I am fully aware of my own human nature. I have made the necessary choices that will facilitate survival in this world and the higher Spiritual life of the higher worlds.
FULLY?? 100%??
The most I can grant you is you are 20% aware of your own human nature.
Btw, how much do you know [roughly and in detail] about your brain and how the 100 billion neurons each with up to 10,000 connectors work?
From what you have posted, I don't believe you know much, perhaps 1% of available knowedge of the brain and 0.001% of the full knowledge of the brain.

I understand you have no better choices but to make those religious choices you made above. However your choices are based on large scale ignorance of your own human nature. Your religious responses and choices are a direct response to relieve the desperate existential angst [mental pains], worries, etc. in relation to death.

You have to admit you are wrong to think you are fully aware of your own human nature.

Quote:
This is an obvious misnomer. Would you like to try to explain what it means?
There is no such thing as absolute totally unconditional freewill.
I have explained to Khalif, example a prisoner has the freewill to sleep and sh:t whenever s/he wants but don't have the freedom of will to get out of his prison cell or the prison.
You think you have total freewill but in reality you and all human beings are imprison by their human nature.
You think you had the freewill to choose whatever car to buy, but you are likely to be ignorant your choice is not totally free but conditioned by your human nature, personality, inborn qualities and very likely brainwashing by the advertisements of car companies.

There is no such thing as a totally free will but your supposedly free will is always not-very-free-will.

Quote:
I'm sure that you know better. These people are brainwashed, and brain dead. They are no better than robotized machinery. They are under severe duress. Narcotized.
This is the reason you are ignorant of human nature.

Note I based on the understanding of human nature, there are 20% of all humans who has active evil tendencies. This is applicable to all Muslims, meaning there are 20% of Muslims who are born with an active tendency to commit evil. So there is a pool of 300 [1.5 b x 29%] million who are evil prone.
Now there are lots of evil laden elements in the Quran which can influence the 300 million evil prone Muslims to commit evil. This is a very frightening number and potential. I am not saying all the 300 million evil prone Muslims will commit evil there and then but even if one or up to 50,000 is a very serious threat to humanity.

I agree amongst the evil prone there are really mad and 'brain dead' people. These are rare. You will note the evil prone Muslims who commit evils and violence against non-Muslims and other Muslims are not really brain-dead at all. Note Bin-Laden and all those evil prone Muslims in the News and media, they are not mad nor brain dead at all. So don't make such stupid claims.

Quote:
Given, that many may be in desperate straits. It's all about proper use of the will. The innate free will given us, is not to be used for stupidity. The Wise Ancients would say: "Chose ye right, chose ye wrong, chose."
Yes, most believers are in desperate straits, i.e. very desperate existential straits and are infected with the worst kind of worries and anxieties about death and going to hell.
Most believers are like wounded tigers in a corner and would do anything to ensure their survival.
This is why the evil prone Muslims will naturally obey the evil laden commands in the Quran and ended up committing the terrible evils and violence because they are desperate to obey Allah and to please Allah to ensure they are saved from eternal death and continue surviving in Paradise.
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