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Old 08-21-2016, 10:24 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
People do have an almost universal need or desire to do things in concert with others. Which may explain why virtually all Muslim terrorists have been members of quasi-military organization such as ISIS, Boko-Haram, etc. Birds of a feather, flock together. With about 1.7 billion of us it only takes a small percentage to result in a large group of maniacs. What surprises me is that the Maniacs are almost exclusivly Mideastern Muslims, which are the smallest demographic group among Muslims. Less than 20% of the world's Muslims have Mideastern ancestry.

As for Suicide bombings an the like I have personal knowledge of, were those done by Viet Cong in Vietnam during the 1960s. I can recall young mothers in Saigong putting grnades in their Baby's diaper, then approach Young American soldiers and sevretly pulling the pin on the grenade. Also rember the "Suicide waves that over an DaNang. (I was not at DaNang at the time but saw the aftermath and what seemed like an endless road of bodies.) It reached the point where you had to suspect everyone of being a suicide bomber, even 5 year old children. We ended up with being labelled "Baby Killers" but them Babies were quite dangerous and capable of killing. I was blessed as nearly all of my direct combat was fought from the air. Suicide bombers are a very effective, low cost weapon that instills much terror. It is the weapon of choice by many despots, not just Muslims. The "Tamil Tigers" (A Hindu Group) are probably the epitome of Suicide bombers. The Tamil Tigers - TIME

Going back to the original comment: "but the fact that expectations are lower. Isn't that in some way telling re the propensity for violence (among a sizable minority) in the Islamic world?"

It is more telling the world that ISIS (Islamic State) is an Enemy of all people. Although in this case the Target was not Muslims, but Kurds which most likely were Yazidi But the fact is they committed the crime in an Islamic Nation. Possibly with the goal of causing friction between Muslim and non-Muslim Turks.

Turkey wedding suicide bomber 'was child aged 12-14' - BBC News
So your above deflections are to insist Islam itself has nothing to do with it.

The point is all the non-Muslim related incidents you gave above are not motivated by verses from any religious texts. The terrible evils and violence in those cases were committed by SOME humans based on their inherent active evil tendencies based purely on political and other non-religious reasons.

The fact is the terrible evils and violence committed by members of ISIS [if proven in this case of the Turkey wedding suicide bombers] are traceable to the primary root causes from the massive loads of evil laden verses of the Quran. The ethnic factor is secondary in this case.
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Old 08-22-2016, 03:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
The fact is the terrible evils and violence committed by members of ISIS [if proven in this case of the Turkey wedding suicide bombers] are traceable to the primary root causes from the massive loads of evil laden verses of the Quran. The ethnic factor is secondary in this case.
No verse of the Qur'an tells Muslims to kill other Muslims. Your charge is easily dismissed. ISIS are killing Muslims.
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Old 08-22-2016, 06:06 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
So your above deflections are to insist Islam itself has nothing to do with it.

The point is all the non-Muslim related incidents you gave above are not motivated by verses from any religious texts. The terrible evils and violence in those cases were committed by SOME humans based on their inherent active evil tendencies based purely on political and other non-religious reasons.

The fact is the terrible evils and violence committed by members of ISIS [if proven in this case of the Turkey wedding suicide bombers] are traceable to the primary root causes from the massive loads of evil laden verses of the Quran. The ethnic factor is secondary in this case.
Interesting :

Your view seems to be that if the atrocity is done by a group composed of non-Muslims the motivation must be political or other non-religious reasons. However if the same things are done by a group composed of Muslims the reason must be the Qur'an

Perhaps they are all turtles, but when they are non-Muslims you see rabbits and when they are Muslims you see ducks
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Old 08-23-2016, 01:06 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Interesting :

Your view seems to be that if the atrocity is done by a group composed of non-Muslims the motivation must be political or other non-religious reasons. However if the same things are done by a group composed of Muslims the reason must be the Qur'an

Perhaps they are all turtles, but when they are non-Muslims you see rabbits and when they are Muslims you see ducks
It is a fact, when evils and violence are committed by non-Muslims, we cannot trace their root cause to their respective holy texts. There has been evil by Christians by there is no evidence to are quoting verses from the NT that directly prompt them to fight against non-Christians.
In addition, in the present time, we don't hear of non-Muslims justifying their evils based on their holy texts.
As I had stated if any they are rare and in a detailed scrutiny we cannot blame their holy texts.

There are evils and violence committed by Muslims which has nothing to do with Islam. Example a Muslim killing his wife out of jealousy or due to various non-religious issues. This is not an issue in relation to this discussion.

However it is SO blatantly obvious the evil prone Muslims are making reference to the Quran in justifying their evils and violence.

I mentioned Bin Laden and many evil prones Muslims quoted from the Quran.
Here is on remark from Mohammed Bouyeri:
BBC NEWS | Europe | Van Gogh suspect confesses guilt

Quote:
"I take complete responsibility for my actions. I acted purely in the name of my religion," he told the court in Amsterdam.

"I can assure you that one day, should I be set free, I would do exactly the same, exactly the same," he added.
There are hundreds and thousands of evidences of the above where evil prone Muslims make references to the Quran [& Ahadith] to support their views of evils and violence against non-Muslims.
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Old 08-23-2016, 02:15 AM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,039,481 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
It is a fact, when evils and violence are committed by non-Muslims, we cannot trace their root cause to their respective holy texts. There has been evil by Christians by there is no evidence to are quoting verses from the NT that directly prompt them to fight against non-Christians.
In addition, in the present time, we don't hear of non-Muslims justifying their evils based on their holy texts.
As I had stated if any they are rare and in a detailed scrutiny we cannot blame their holy texts.

There are evils and violence committed by Muslims which has nothing to do with Islam. Example a Muslim killing his wife out of jealousy or due to various non-religious issues. This is not an issue in relation to this discussion.

However it is SO blatantly obvious the evil prone Muslims are making reference to the Quran in justifying their evils and violence.

I mentioned Bin Laden and many evil prones Muslims quoted from the Quran.
Here is on remark from Mohammed Bouyeri:
BBC NEWS | Europe | Van Gogh suspect confesses guilt

There are hundreds and thousands of evidences of the above where evil prone Muslims make references to the Quran [& Ahadith] to support their views of evils and violence against non-Muslims.
Stupidity of your claim can easily be exposed. These evil prone murderers are murdering more Muslims than the non-Muslims. No verse of the Qur'an tells them to kill Muslims. They had killed 143 Muslim children in a school in Peshawar, Pakistan. No verse of the Qur'an told them to do so.
To claim that these evils are due to the Qur'an, is due to ignorance about the Qur'an.

Even G W Bush was acting for his God when invading Iraq. He did not quote any verse but had made it clear that his God had prompted him. He had even called his act as "crusade".

Yes, there are many such evil prone ones who do not blame themselves but try to justify their actions one way or the other using their religious belief in ignorance.
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Old 08-23-2016, 06:09 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Stupidity of your claim can easily be exposed. These evil prone murderers are murdering more Muslims than the non-Muslims. No verse of the Qur'an tells them to kill Muslims. They had killed 143 Muslim children in a school in Peshawar, Pakistan. No verse of the Qur'an told them to do so.
To claim that these evils are due to the Qur'an, is due to ignorance about the Qur'an.

Even G W Bush was acting for his God when invading Iraq. He did not quote any verse but had made it clear that his God had prompted him. He had even called his act as "crusade".

Yes, there are many such evil prone ones who do not blame themselves but try to justify their actions one way or the other using their religious belief in ignorance.
And Bush is a ready example of the foolishness of being 'directed' by religion.
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Old 08-23-2016, 09:10 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Stupidity of your claim can easily be exposed. These evil prone murderers are murdering more Muslims than the non-Muslims. No verse of the Qur'an tells them to kill Muslims. They had killed 143 Muslim children in a school in Peshawar, Pakistan. No verse of the Qur'an told them to do so.
To claim that these evils are due to the Qur'an, is due to ignorance about the Qur'an.
There are no verses that explicitly [100%] command Muslims DIRECTLY to kill non-Muslims nor other Muslims or else they will not go to heaven but end up in Hell.

However there are sets of verses in the Quran that are 90% explicit [90% direct] which influenced and inspire Muslims to fight and kill non-Muslims and *anyone who are a threat to Islam and Muslims. * Any one in this case include Muslims who are condemned as hypocrites and apostates [actual or deemed].

I have traced the root causes to Islamic inspired evils and violence by evil prone Muslims to sets of various evil laden verses in the Quran. These sets of verses [comprising not one or two but hundreds and thousands of verses] are as follows;

1. Us [good] versus them [evil] verses = > 3,400 verses
2. Verses relating to war, fighting, jihad on non-Muslims = 330
3. Verses relating to cruelty = 476
4. On Violence = 509 verses
5. On Injustice = 542
6. On Intolerance = 488
7. On threat of Hell = 313

In 1. above the non-Muslims are condemned in the most horrific and the worst imaginable states, i.e. dehumanized and debased.
The above sets [1-6] of evil laden verses combine with other catalytic evil verses trigger the already naturally evil prone Muslims [a potential pool of 300 million] to commit terrible evils and violence.

The above is not speculations but a reality of terror from Islam [in part] as proven with the following evidences; [29,081]



Why you cannot see the above reality is, as a believer you MUST be blind and bias to such facts otherwise your faith will not work to relieve the trembling existential angst.


Quote:
Even G W Bush was acting for his God when invading Iraq. He did not quote any verse but had made it clear that his God had prompted him. He had even called his act as "crusade".

Yes, there are many such evil prone ones who do not blame themselves but try to justify their actions one way or the other using their religious belief in ignorance.
G W Bush or any Christian can say anything but that does not meant it has any significant relation to Christianity. In addition, G W Bush was a newly born again Christian and how much he is well versed with Christianity per-se is questionable.
Besides how many times you read such mistakes of Christian invoking their God and Jesus to fight and kill non-Christians in contrast to the many hundreds or even thousands to evil prone Muslims making reference to verses in the Quran and Allahu-Akbar.

The critical fact is Jesus in his teachings do not exhort Christians to fight non-Muslims and Christianity has an overriding pacifist limit in terms of an absolute moral maxim on killing another human being plus other maxims of love thy enemies and the likes.
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Old 08-23-2016, 11:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
No verse of the Qur'an tells Muslims to kill other Muslims. Your charge is easily dismissed. ISIS are killing Muslims.
Here's the verse
It proves that you do not provide the truth
Or you do not understand the Koran well
Verse clear
In the name of God the Merciful ((If two parties of believers battled make peace between them, the Bagot one or the other that wants to Faqatheloa Tefie to the command of Allah)) [al-hgrat : 9]
The question is: What is the fate of the dead from the category that Bagot before God, you are to fire? The fate of the dead from the group that fought as it came in the noble verse, is it to heaven? Please clarification May Allah reward you.
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Old 08-23-2016, 11:15 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 662,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
No verse of the Qur'an tells Muslims to kill other Muslims. Your charge is easily dismissed. ISIS are killing Muslims.
ISIS does not want the killing of a Muslim
But they want to apply the Islamic law by the Sunni school
That's Shiite school rejects this application
This is the reason for the fighting between them
Nine and verse from Surat Alhjajrat clear but does not provide the ideal solution
Because it gives the right for a Muslim to choose the position of one of two groups contending
This is what happens in these battles
You stand against ISIS
ISIS But it is in fact represent true Islam as it was in the days of the Prophet Muhammad
In the life of Muhammad was fighting of the most important facts of the lives of Muslims
And ISIS But it is in fact represent true Islam as it was in the days of the Prophet Muhammad
In the life of Muhammad was fighting of the most important facts of the lives of Muslims
And apply the teachings and commandments of Mohammed fantastic application
It is the image of Islam truth
So why reject the true Islam
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Old 08-23-2016, 11:22 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,585,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
Here's the verse
It proves that you do not provide the truth
Or you do not understand the Koran well
Verse clear
In the name of God the Merciful ((If two parties of believers battled make peace between them, the Bagot one or the other that wants to Faqatheloa Tefie to the command of Allah)) [al-hgrat : 9]
The question is: What is the fate of the dead from the category that Bagot before God, you are to fire? The fate of the dead from the group that fought as it came in the noble verse, is it to heaven? Please clarification May Allah reward you.
Don't see "al-hgrat" in my listing of chapters of the Quran. OK, Al-Hujurat.

49:9. And if two parties of believers [Muslims] fall to fighting, then make peace between them [Muslims].
And if one party of them doeth wrong to the other, fight ye that [party of Muslims] which doeth wrong till it return unto the ordinance of Allah; then, if it [that party] return, make peace between them justly, and act equitably. Lo! Allah loveth the equitable.
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