U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 08-23-2016, 09:28 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,583,450 times
Reputation: 461

Advertisements

I came across this point;
You are being redirected...

Quote:
Mosque Imams around the world continue to pray to Allah to grant ‘Victory to Muslims over Qawm al-Kafiroon’, i.e. Non-Muslims:

One of the reasons I avoid attending Friday congregations at mosques is a specific invocation uttered by mosque imams just prior to the formal Friday congregation prayer we Muslims refer to as the Juma’a. In the prayer, the clerics ask Allah to give “victory to Muslims over the ‘Qawm al-Kafirun,’ the Arabic phrase that lumps all non-Muslims, that is Jews, Hindus, Christians, Atheists, Buddhists and Sikhs into one.

http://tarekfatah.com/wp-content/upl...ic-English.jpg
Note an actual tape recording of the prayer is given together with the article in the link above.

Question:
How true is the above claim [as supported by evidence].
Is this prayer done by all Islamic mosques or confined to only certain sects or groups of Muslims.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-24-2016, 09:59 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,583,450 times
Reputation: 461
What is pathetic is most apologists are ignorant of the above on how SOME Muslims [in compliance with the Quran] are viewing them as inferior beings to be dominated.
The apologists are engaging in potential mental masochism of the worst kind.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-24-2016, 11:01 PM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,037,948 times
Reputation: 289
There is nothing pathetic about wishing for victory when a 'qawm al-kafirun' wages war against 'qawm al muslimun'. If 'qawm al muslimun' waged war against 'qawm al kafirun', the 'qawm al kafirun' too will be wishing for victory over the 'qawm al muslimun'.

In the above statement, 'muslimun' are those who are either being attacked or are attacking and not ALL 'muslimun'. The same way, 'kafirun' in the statement is not ALL unbelievers but only those who are waging war or are being attacked.

That is what is meant by “victory to Muslims over the ‘Qawm al-Kafirun,’ The context is war.

By the way, it is not an obligatory part of the Friday prayer but, as mentioned, just before the formal Friday prayer or in a du'a just after the formal Friday prayer or even after other prayers. Nobody is urging Muslims in a Friday prayer to go out and attack ALL kafirun.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-25-2016, 02:43 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,583,450 times
Reputation: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
There is nothing pathetic about wishing for victory when a 'qawm al-kafirun' wages war against 'qawm al muslimun'. If 'qawm al muslimun' waged war against 'qawm al kafirun', the 'qawm al kafirun' too will be wishing for victory over the 'qawm al muslimun'.

In the above statement, 'muslimun' are those who are either being attacked or are attacking and not ALL 'muslimun'. The same way, 'kafirun' in the statement is not ALL unbelievers but only those who are waging war or are being attacked.

That is what is meant by “victory to Muslims over the ‘Qawm al-Kafirun,’ The context is war.

By the way, it is not an obligatory part of the Friday prayer but, as mentioned, just before the formal Friday prayer or in a du'a just after the formal Friday prayer or even after other prayers. Nobody is urging Muslims in a Friday prayer to go out and attack ALL kafirun.
It is your ignorance of human nature and human psychology that you do not understand the serious implications and the subtle brainwashing effect of wishing for victory against non-believers especially within a religious setting.

According the the OP, Mosque imans around the world [I presume most] would be praying for victory over non-believers every Friday.

Note according to what is shown, there is no mentioned of 'Muslimun' or 'kafirun' within an actual war situation.
http://tarekfatah.com/wp-content/upl...ic-English.jpg

You forgot about 61:9??
61:9. He [Allah] it is who hath sent His messenger with the guidance and the religion [wadeeni] of truth, that He may make it [al Islam] conqueror of all religion [alddeeni الدِّينِ] however much idolaters [infidels] may be averse.

61:10. O ye [Muslims] who believe! Shall I show you a commerce [transaction, deal] that will save you [Muslims] from a painful doom? [i.e. a net profit on J-Day and this is too commercialize!]

61:11. Ye [Muslims] should believe in Allah and His messenger, and should strive for the cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives. That is better for you [Muslims], if ye [Muslims] did but know.
[Duty of a Muslim to ensure a place in heaven and paradise] [a motivation for jihadists]

61:12. He [Allah] will forgive you [Muslims] your sins and bring you [Muslims] into Gardens underneath which rivers flow, and pleasant dwellings in Gardens of Eden. That is the supreme triumph.
[sins removed, therefore pure profit]

61:13. And (He will give you) another blessing which ye [Muslims] love: help from Allah and present [current, near at hand] victory. Give good tidings (O Muhammad) to believers.
[Winning wars and spoils of war] [another motivation for jihadists to go to war]

61:14. O ye [Muslims] who believe! Be Allah's helpers, even as Jesus - son of Mary said unto the disciples: Who are my helpers for Allah?
They [Muslims -apostles and Christians] said: We are Allah's helpers.
And a party of the Children of Israel believed [as Muslims], while a party disbelieved [as infidels].
Then We strengthened those [Muslims] who believed against their foe [infidels], and they [Muslims] became the uppermost.
[participate in "Muhammad's raids and war campaigns]

The above could mean as already proven, Muslims will be the initiator with Allah's help to conquer other religions. As such the prayer to victory is likely to apply to this situation. In addition there are 300++ verses that contain war elements which should influence and inspire Muslims to initiate war against non-Muslims.

Thus the above prayer for victory in a general situation brainwashes Muslims around the world into war mode even when there is no actual war. This prayer in addition to the many war laden verses influenced and inspired evil prone Muslims to fight and kill non-Muslims. The evidence is already glaring, i.e. [29,081]



where non-Muslims are even killed over the drawing of cartoon. Innocent Non-Muslims are killed in soft targets, like cafe, theatres, supermarket, on a busy road, by the beach, etc. merely because SOME Muslims are brainwashed by that prayers for victory and other fight, jihad related verses.

Since it is not a part of the Quran, such a prayer should be banned immediately and imans should be jailed if they perform such an evil laden an immoral prayer within a religious setting.

Last edited by Continuum; 08-25-2016 at 03:44 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-25-2016, 07:59 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,282,205 times
Reputation: 7407
I never heard it at any Mosques I have ever attended for Friday Jummah and when I lead Jummah I do not do such.

Then again for the past few years when I lead Jummah the only one present is my wife and on occasion some close friends
__________________
When posting as a MOD my posts will be in red

No advertising, no copyrighted material, no personal attacks


MODERATOR OF: Buddhism: Judaism: Paganism:

When in doubt read the TOS MOD LIST FAQ's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-26-2016, 04:43 PM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,037,948 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
It is your ignorance of human nature and human psychology that you do not understand the serious implications and the subtle brainwashing e ffect of wishing for victory against non-believers especially within a religious setting.
I do, you do and so did Bush and Blair. That's how everyone was brainwashed to believe that Saddam had WMDs. That's how you were brainwashed to believe that the terrorists are "Islamic terrorists". That's how you still believe that they are "Islamic". That's how you still believe that they are the true Muslims.

If you had believed Bush and Blair then, why don't you believe Bush now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
According the the OP, Mosque imans around the world [I presume most] would be praying for victory over non-believers every Friday.
I have told you that there is no question of praying for VICTORY if there is no WAR. Mosque imams do not hide their speeches. The speeches are openly broadcasted from Makkah and Madina every Friday. They wish for victory, not over all unbelievers but over those who are attacking Muslims in Palestine and in Kashmir. Do you think Americans would be friendly with Saudis if the Saudis were praying for victory over all American non-Muslims? So your assertion is a load of crap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Note according to what is shown, there is no mentioned of 'Muslimun' or 'kafirun' within an actual war situation.
http://tarekfatah.com/wp-content/upl...ic-English.jpg
I have heard them and it is always about attacks on Muslims in Palestine and Kashmir. They actually mention Palestine and Kashmir quite clearly.

The Link you have provided here does not work. I am not sure if it is my computer or something wrong with the Link URL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
You forgot about 61:9??

61:9. He [Allah] it is who hath sent His messenger with the guidance and the religion [wadeeni] of truth, that He may make it [al Islam] conqueror of all religion [alddeeni الدِّينِ] however much idolaters [infidels] may be averse.
I have told you several times by now that I have studied the Qur'an. I cannot forget any verse of the Qur'an after having studied it.

[61.8] They desire to put out the light of Allah with their mouths but Allah will perfect His light, though the unbelievers may be averse.

[61.9] He it is Who sent His messenger with the guidance and the true deen, that He may make it prevail over all (false) deens, though the polytheists may be averse.

The points to note in these two verses are:

(1) All attempts to annihilate Islam will fail, and they did fail.

(2) Islam will be made to prevail over all false religions that were against it, the truth of which was witnessed by Arabia in the lifetime of the Holy Prophet.

(3) Polytheists will not like it. Idol worshipers did not like it.

You need to note that the word in Arabic Qur'an translated by Pickthall as "conqueror" is incorrect. "Prevail" (something that lasts rather than is destroyed) is the correct translation in English (see 9:48).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
61:10. O ye [Muslims] who believe! Shall I show you a commerce [transaction, deal] that will save you ""[Muslims] from a painful doom? [i.e. a net profit on J-Day and this is too commercialize!]

61:11. Ye [Muslims] should believe in Allah and His messenger, and should strive for the cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives. That is better for you [Muslims], if ye [Muslims] did but know.
[Duty of a Muslim to ensure a place in heaven and paradise] [a motivation for jihadists]

61:12. He [Allah] will forgive you [Muslims] your sins and bring you [Muslims] into Gardens underneath which rivers flow, and pleasant dwellings in Gardens of Eden. That is the supreme triumph.
[sins removed, therefore pure profit]

61:13. And (He will give you) another blessing which ye [Muslims] love: help from Allah and present [current, near at hand] victory. Give good tidings (O Muhammad) to believers.
[Winning wars and spoils of war] [another motivation for jihadists to go to war]

61:14. O ye [Muslims] who believe! Be Allah's helpers, even as Jesus - son of Mary said unto the disciples: Who are my helpers for Allah?
They [Muslims -apostles and Christians] said: We are Allah's helpers.
And a party of the Children of Israel believed [as Muslims], while a party disbelieved [as infidels].
Then We strengthened those [Muslims] who believed against their foe [infidels], and they [Muslims] became the uppermost.
[participate in "Muhammad's raids and war campaigns]

The above could mean as already proven, Muslims will be the initiator with Allah's help to conquer other religions. As such the prayer to victory is likely to apply to this situation. In addition there are 300++ verses that contain war elements which should influence and inspire Muslims to initiate war against non-Muslims.
Funny how you link these verses to present situation of war but you refuse to accept when I say that the context of the verses then was of then war.

Your interpretations in () is laughable and pathetic exposing your ignorance about the context in which these verses were revealed. The victory mentioned has already been achieved. It was achieved when Muslims came back home to Makkah after the treaty at Hudaibiyah. Read about this treaty and link the verses to that Treaty as these were revealed soon afterwards.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-26-2016, 04:54 PM
 
3,167 posts, read 1,037,948 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Since it is not a part of the Quran, such a prayer should be banned immediately and imans should be jailed if they perform such an evil laden an immoral prayer within a religious setting.
It's not a formal prayer but a supplication by imam. You will have to ban all Bush and Blair imans attacking others to go for victory. Ban them mentioning VICTORY as it is evil laden element in their mouths.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top